Cleveland fans, does it make sense to draft Noel and tank?

CBB_Fan · Post #1 » by **CBB_Fan** » Wed May 22, 2013 3:15 am

If you draft Noel, he won't play a game until he recovers from an ACL injury. As Derrick Rose has shown, an ACL recover can take however long the athlete feels is necessary. With his low weight (206 lbs), the Cavs would probably want to build him up by about 20 lbs before playing him even with the injury.

I think you could wait till nearly the end of next year before playing Noel, which wouldn't really affect your draft status. Depending on other personnel movement, you probably would be primed to get another good pick next year's draft, which is considered to be much better than this years.

If you get the #1 overall pick, that leaves Andrew Wiggins, which could be the superstar the Cavs need. Otherwise, you could get guys like Aaron Gordon or Julius Randle, and continue to build up Noel as more of a defensive presence than a typical #1 pick, which are usually volume scorers.

With a line-up of:

PG: Kyrie Irving
SG: Dion Waiters
SF: Andrew Wiggins/Aaron Gordon
PF: X
C: Nerlens Noel

You would have a good young core to build around. Maybe even lure Lebron back. Would that be something the Cavaliers even consider going into the draft with the #1 pick?

Post #2 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed May 22, 2013 3:36 am

I think Cleveland just has to take Noel. I don't see this #1 having enough value to nab a great veteran as the Cavs may hope to do.

Take Noel, hope Varejao is healthy and plays his value up by the time Noel comes back, and flip Andy for value while maintaining some 2014 flexibility, you know, just in case.

tidho · Post #3 » by **tidho** » Wed May 22, 2013 4:23 am

No it doesn't make sense to tank. You can't spend Kyrie's entire rookie contract losing on purpose, lol.

Noel is a reasonable pick, and as a long term investment he's worth waiting for. If the rest of the team is healthy they're going to make the playoffs even with Noel sidelined.

Post #4 » by **B Mac** » Wed May 22, 2013 4:26 am

Cavs are trying to make the playoffs this season. The tank is dead.

Harper4Ferry? · Post #5 » by **Harper4Ferry?** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:06 am

Another year of tanking is bound to destroy the meager fanbase.

Bubstubbler · Post #6 » by **Bubstubbler** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:45 am

The real goal is winning championships (as opposed to just being a mediocre playoff team), and the best strategy for Cleveland to maximize its odds of winning championships is to draft Noel, sit him out all year, and get another high lotto pick next year while keeping the cap space to sign a max guy (LBJ) outright. That's the path to building a championship powerhouse.

Sacrificing top-end championship potential just to make the playoffs one year earlier is terrible strategy. The right thing to do is to take ONE more year of lumps, then contend for championships every year for the next decade.

Stick to the plan, Cavs. Just one more year and everything will be in place...

Bubstubbler · Post #7 » by **Bubstubbler** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:54 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Another year of tanking is bound to destroy the meager fanbase.

Maybe temporarily for some of that one season, but it would magically regenerate the next season to cheer on a squad like this:

Irving
Waiters
Wiggins (or Parker or Randle etc)
LBJ
Noel

Fans flock to title contenders. Put together a freaktastic lineup with serious dynasty potential, and fans will be climbing all over themselves to cheer on the team.

Harper4Ferry? · Post #8 » by **Harper4Ferry?** » Wed May 22, 2013 7:50 am

You're guaranteed nothing with the tank.

Mykhyn · Post #9 » by **Mykhyn** » Wed May 22, 2013 9:45 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:You're guaranteed nothing with the tank.

If you tank hard enough you are next year

Lets hope they go 0-82

BossHoggin · Post #10 » by **BossHoggin** » Wed May 22, 2013 12:16 pm

You need to aim for #3

CBB_Fan · Post #11 » by **CBB_Fan** » Wed May 22, 2013 12:23 pm

I think people need to remember that there are a lot of guys that look good at the top of next year's draft. Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, etc. And Lebron isn't the only max contract guy next year; you also have Kobe, Bosh, Carmelo, and lesser guys like Cousins and Bogut.

Besides which, Noel will need to put on some weight if he wants to succeed. Why not try to use the rookie season mostly for recovery and weight building?

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it is better to pick high next year. Could set up the Cavs for the next 3-5 more years as a playoff team and even title contender.

soxfan2003 · Post #12 » by **soxfan2003** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:10 pm

Outside fan perspective. I certainly think Cleveland should tank next year. I'm hoping my Celtics tank. The problem with Lebron on the Cavs is they got too good too quickly so couldn't add that second or even third legitimate star.

A true tank job next year could end up with a special player and in the worst case ends up with a top 5 pick in a strong draft that can be traded for a veteran. I think with all of that Cleveland will have the pieces to have a 50/50 chance to lure Lebron back.

Niko23 · Post #13 » by **Niko23** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:26 pm

I would rather the Cavs trade their unprotected 2014 pick and another asset to get a star here. The Tank has been destroyed.

tidho · Post #14 » by **tidho** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:35 pm

At some point you have to try to win. A good time for this is prior to Irving being able to leave. Need to give the guy a taste of why he'd want to stay here.

I don't think you rule Noel out, but do rule out tanking.

Mr Loggins · Post #15 » by **Mr Loggins** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:10 pm

CBB_Fan wrote:If you draft Noel, he won't play a game until he recovers from an ACL injury. As Derrick Rose has shown, an ACL recover can take however long the athlete feels is necessary. With his low weight (206 lbs), the Cavs would probably want to build him up by about 20 lbs before playing him even with the injury.

I think you could wait till nearly the end of next year before playing Noel, which wouldn't really affect your draft status. Depending on other personnel movement, you probably would be primed to get another good pick next year's draft, which is considered to be much better than this years.

If you get the #1 overall pick, that leaves Andrew Wiggins, which could be the superstar the Cavs need. Otherwise, you could get guys like Aaron Gordon or Julius Randle, and continue to build up Noel as more of a defensive presence than a typical #1 pick, which are usually volume scorers.

With a line-up of:

PG: Kyrie Irving
SG: Dion Waiters
SF: Andrew Wiggins/Aaron Gordon
PF: X
C: Nerlens Noel

You would have a good young core to build around. Maybe even lure Lebron back. Would that be something the Cavaliers even consider going into the draft with the #1 pick?

Why is there a 'X" at PF? WHy not Tristan?

Post #16 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:21 pm

Bubstubbler wrote:The real goal is winning championships (as opposed to just being a mediocre playoff team), and the best strategy for Cleveland to maximize its odds of winning championships is to draft Noel, sit him out all year, and get another high lotto pick next year while keeping the cap space to sign a max guy (LBJ) outright. That's the path to building a championship powerhouse.

Sacrificing top-end championship potential just to make the playoffs one year earlier is terrible strategy. The right thing to do is to take ONE more year of lumps, then contend for championships every year for the next decade.

Stick to the plan, Cavs. Just one more year and everything will be in place...

What if you don't win the lotto next year? What if you get hosed? What if the fans sell on the franchise forever because of long-term tanking? What if the fans never come back? At some point, you have to have your young guys learn how to win. Listen, teams just don't go from the lotto to the championship. It takes a year or two of playoffs to learn how to truly win. Look at the Pacers. They're young guys have played immensely better this year in the playoffs than last year because they've now been there, done that. There's a positive to making the playoffs, learning how to win in the playoffs, even if you're a first round out.

Post #17 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:24 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:Outside fan perspective. I certainly think Cleveland should tank next year. I'm hoping my Celtics tank. The problem with Lebron on the Cavs is they got too good too quickly so couldn't add that second or even third legitimate star.

What is Kyrie? Chopped liver?

Post #18 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:27 pm

I don't advocate tanking and I also don't think that the Cavs would be that bad next year unless there are big injuries once again. Those injuries to Varejao, Irving and Waiters hurt quite a bit but that said the Cavs were playing good ball in spots even in spite of it.

Take the best player available and then start using some of this cap space. i really don't care about next years draft this team has enough youth right now.

Post #19 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:29 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:Outside fan perspective. I certainly think Cleveland should tank next year. I'm hoping my Celtics tank. The problem with Lebron on the Cavs is they got too good too quickly so couldn't add that second or even third legitimate star.

What is Kyrie? Chopped liver?

He means when after the Cavs draft leBron. Not having many picks after drafting LeBron was a killer especially after we missed on the one that we had.

Post #20 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:41 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:Outside fan perspective. I certainly think Cleveland should tank next year. I'm hoping my Celtics tank. The problem with Lebron on the Cavs is they got too good too quickly so couldn't add that second or even third legitimate star.

What is Kyrie? Chopped liver?

He means when after the Cavs draft leBron. Not having many picks after drafting LeBron was a killer especially after we missed on the one that we had.

Ah, I thought he was talking future tense of adding LeBron in 2014, but then you'd be too good, too quick to add a 2nd star. I didn't realize he was talking past tense.