Fans have to help the cavs with the coaching

kiwibrindle · Post #1 » by **kiwibrindle** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:01 pm

As a lifelong Cleveland fan I am tired of seeing certain teams do moves while other teams have no clue they have a problem. In this case I'm talking about coaching of the Browns and the Cavs. We have seen 95% of fans reach out to Cleveland media in response to the firing of coach Chad. This action has at least received a response from the Browns ownership.

I believe the opposite 95% demanded Coach Mike Brown lost his job. We would see better play next year. Cleveland will never make this move unless the fans step up and blast all the media outlets with this request

Call it, the firing of Cleveland coaches part two. the opposite of firing of coach Chudzinski

The rotations
The lack of defense
The obvious lack of offense
The in fighting
The last second losses because we can't inbound the ball
The fact that we now have gained Loul Deng and see only him get his own shot but no change in the offense
The fact we never see Dion handle the ball or Gee handle the ball or any progress on our number one pick's development but instead we see Jack and Clark's excessive playing time when they have not helped either end of the plays

I'd like to suggest, here and now, we demand as fans for the firing of both our coach and our GM. We owe it to our team and each other. We have suffered long enough

IMHO · Post #2 » by **IMHO** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:51 pm

well it's kind of obvious to what's going on.

Brown's gay for Clark & Jack.

Post #3 » by **Rise Against** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:33 pm

I will be honest here.. I was never a fan of Mike Brown at all, even during the LeBron era. I thought rehiring him to coach a young and rebuilding team was the biggest mistake the management can make.. He is much more suited coaching a veteran team.. Or as an assistant coach, but definitely not a head coach.. Granted that the team is very young, he is not helping them develop into their full potential at all. Everyone is playing worse this year.. There is no consistency at all with this team. It is now over halfway through the season and the Cavs are 15-27.. It's going to be a long second half..

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #4 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:53 am

I just don't understand what people expect of our players.

I can't imagine we are just failing to succeed in Mike Brown's system, I think there just isn't any system.

That's why teams that can move the ball and play fundamental basketball beat us. If we could just play smart, team basketball we'd probably be a playoff team.

But to be honest, it's all bad. Our GM & our coach both need to go. This team is just a collection of players that don't fit, our 3 guard rotation consists of 3 players that are the same guy, just different calibers. Our big man rotation features some of the worst rim protectors in the NBA. And we really don't have the 3 point shooting to complement our star point guard. And up until the Deng trade, we lacked any real wing threat other than CJ Miles lighting it up once every 10 games.

A team that is poorly built, mixed with a poor coach = the mess that we see today.

Okada · Post #5 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:58 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:I just don't understand what people expect of our players.

I can't imagine we are just failing to succeed in Mike Brown's system, I think there just isn't any system.

That's why teams that can move the ball and play fundamental basketball beat us. If we could just play smart, team basketball we'd probably be a playoff team.

But to be honest, it's all bad. Our GM & our coach both need to go. This team is just a collection of players that don't fit, our 3 guard rotation consists of 3 players that are the same guy, just different calibers. Our big man rotation features some of the worst rim protectors in the NBA. And we really don't have the 3 point shooting to complement our star point guard. And up until the Deng trade, we lacked any real wing threat other than CJ Miles lighting it up once every 10 games.

A team that is poorly built, mixed with a poor coach = the mess that we see today.

Believe it or not, getting a team of 20-22 year olds to play "smart, team basketball" is much easier said than done. I don't know why anyone is surprised. What coaches in the league could conceivably have a mismatched roster this young playing "smart, team basketball" halfway through their first season? Carlisle, Vogel, Thibs, Pop...who else? Maybe some of the successful new guys like Stotts, Hornackek, and Stevens. That's about it. Face it, a third of the league's coaches are considered a borderline disaster at any given time. Mike Brown is 'failing' in the same way that most of the coaches in the league would in his place.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #6 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:11 am

People thought Phoenix was primed for Andrew Wiggins, and many thought Cleveland was primed for a playoff run.

Hornacek is getting the best out of his guys while we're seeing guys regress on this team, a good coach puts his players in a position to succeed. Mike Brown is telling them to go out there and play basketball, nothing else.

We see runs of Kyrie or Dion going off, all the time. But how often do we see our entire team moving the ball around, finding good shots, etc.? That's on Mike Brown. We don't run an offense, and it's not because we're a young team.

Mike Brown is a terrible coach, there is no giving him a pass. His job is to do the best he can with the players he is given, and if you think he is than you're mistaken.

Ziggy Stardust · Post #7 » by **Ziggy Stardust** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:29 am

I want Hollins instead of potatoe head so bad it hurts.

I hate jarrett jack off so much. Earl Clark is beyond useless. All of browns weaknessnes are being magnified tenfold on this young, disorganized team.

Okada · Post #8 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:People thought Phoenix was primed for Andrew Wiggins, and many thought Cleveland was primed for a playoff run.

Hornacek is getting the best out of his guys while we're seeing guys regress on this team, a good coach puts his players in a position to succeed. Mike Brown is telling them to go out there and play basketball, nothing else.

We see runs of Kyrie or Dion going off, all the time. But how often do we see our entire team moving the ball around, finding good shots, etc.? That's on Mike Brown. We don't run an offense, and it's not because we're a young team.

Mike Brown is a terrible coach, there is no giving him a pass. His job is to do the best he can with the players he is given, and if you think he is than you're mistaken.

I didn't even say he was doing a good job. I'm saying that you clearly don't understand how low the general quality of NBA coaches is. That many of the coaches in the league would not be doing much of a better job than him right now. Like I said, out of 30 teams, there's maybe 4 or 5 solid bets and a handful of promising new guys. That's it. That is at best, 10 out of the 30 coaches in the league right now that could conceivably be doing a significantly better job with this roster right now. The other 19 guys range between 'minor improvement' and 'even bigger disaster.' The majority of the time, head coaches ultimately don't matter. Most of the time they're treading water, bring a lot of flaws to the table, and end up only being perceived as as good as their roster is.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #9 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:26 am

You are severely underrating what a coach does.

Okada · Post #10 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:31 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:You are severely underrating what a coach does.

Lol, no I'm not. I'm just pretty sure you are ignoring the entire history of coaches in the NBA. Turnover is massive, half the coaches that people think are good end up flopping in one or more different jobs, even genuinely good coaches flop in other jobs. Half the league is failed retreads for a reason. Almost no one lasts more than a couple of years anywhere. The historical evidence overwhelmingly proves that coaches mostly don't matter. It doesn't mean you shouldn't want to get a good one or anything, but it does mean that Mike Brown's ineptitude would be roughly matched by almost any potential replacement in some form or another.

fart · Post #11 » by **fart** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:35 am

Maybe the young players on this team are not as talented as everybody thinks they are? Our "cornerstone pieces" consist of Monta Ellis junior, a poor mans Delonte West, a power forward who is still unsure of which hand to shoot with, and the black Pillsbury dough boy. Ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Cavaliers!

Okada · Post #12 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:40 am

fart wrote:Maybe the young players on this team are not as talented as everybody thinks they are? Our "cornerstone pieces" consist of Monta Ellis junior, a poor mans Delonte West, a power forward who is still unsure of which hand to shoot with, and the black Pillsbury dough boy. Ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Cavaliers!

Basically, yeah.

That's my point - a coach is largely only perceived to be as good as their roster is. Everybody thinks Scott Brooks is a solid coach now, for example, but it's very easy to imagine him getting stuck coaching a bad team (like us) and everyone thinks he's a mediocre coach within a few years. We've seen it happen many times over. I think Mike Brown's failings, while somewhat real, are getting exaggerated by the failings of the players. That's how it usually goes. It's a poorly constructed team being led by inexperienced and confused players. Part of the reason I'm cutting him slack now is because there is some tangible improvements he's brought to the table and I'm willing to see how he builds on those. But at the end of the day, coaches only have a fairly minimal impact and bring as much bad to the table as they do good. It's not just Mike Brown, it's most coaches in league history. Any potential replacements would likely yield the same overall results that he has.

SaiCLE · Post #13 » by **SaiCLE** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:45 am

The Bobcats, Suns, and the Celtics have all found good coaches. The Cavs messed up by rehiring Mike Brown. We as fans just have to deal with It, I guess...

fart · Post #14 » by **fart** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:46 am

SMH at people blaming coaching. Coaching means NOTHING in the NBA. Erik Spolestra two titles, because he is a good coach? hell no, because he has the best roster in the league. Same argument can be made about any "good coach" or "bad coach". before the big three in Boston, Doc Rivers was considered average at best, after the big 3........... "OMG HOF COACH!!!". It's all crap.

SaiCLE · Post #15 » by **SaiCLE** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:47 am

fart wrote:Maybe the young players on this team are not as talented as everybody thinks they are? Our "cornerstone pieces" consist of Monta Ellis junior, a poor mans Delonte West, a power forward who is still unsure of which hand to shoot with, and the black Pillsbury dough boy. Ladies and gentlemen, your Cleveland Cavaliers!

This team Is being coached by an Incompetent, stubborn as* coach. Hell even Kyrie Is struggling to play in his sh*tty system. I've seen nothing that would tell me that the players are to blame for this sh*t product. Brown couldn't get it done with Lebron & he damn sure couldn't get It done in LA with Kobe & Gasol

Okada · Post #16 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 am

SaiCLE wrote:The Bobcats, Suns, and the Celtics have all found good coaches. The Cavs messed up by rehiring Mike Brown. We as fans just have to deal with It, I guess...

a) That's 3 coaches out of 30 teams. Not exactly a bunch of great coaches just sitting around for the picking...

b) They're good coaches NOW. Do you know how many times perception has changed on a coach? We think they're good now, we've thought a lot of guys were good when they strung together good seasons their first few years, and many of those guys end up coaching a bad team and then that perception changes. Only a very small number of guys end up sticking around as 'good' coaches. Chances are better that all 3 of those guys aren't seen as good coaches 10 years from now then that all 3 are. They're halfway through their first seasons, we don't really know what they'll end up being. Though I do like Stevens and Hornacek.

SaiCLE · Post #17 » by **SaiCLE** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 am

fart wrote:SMH at people blaming coaching. Coaching means NOTHING in the NBA. Erik Spolestra two titles, because he is a good coach? hell no, because he has the best roster in the league. Same argument can be made about any "good coach" or "bad coach". before the big three in Boston, Doc Rivers was considered average at best, after the big 3........... "OMG HOF COACH!!!". It's all crap.

SaiCLE · Post #18 » by **SaiCLE** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:52 am

Okada wrote:
SaiCLE wrote:The Bobcats, Suns, and the Celtics have all found good coaches. The Cavs messed up by rehiring Mike Brown. We as fans just have to deal with It, I guess...

a) That's 3 coaches out of 30 teams. Not exactly a bunch of great coaches just sitting around for the picking...

b) They're good coaches NOW. Do you know how many times perception has changed on a coach? We think they're good now, we've thought a lot of guys were good when they strung together good seasons their first few years, and many of those guys end up coaching a bad team and then that perception changes. Only a very small number of guys end up sticking around as 'good' coaches. Chances are better that all 3 of those guys aren't seen as good coaches 10 years from now then that all 3 are. They're halfway through their first seasons, we don't really know what they'll end up being. Though I do like Stevens and Hornacek.

No my point Is that the Cavs could have at least interviewed other coaches before hiring a guy that's known to freaking fail. If Grant can't find a competent coach who could make adjustments for our current roster. Then he needs to go. No excuses. Pay attention to the Dallas game for example, Brown thoroughly got out coached.

Okada · Post #19 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:54 am

Coaching doesn't mean anything in the NBA. You guys are ignoring decades of evidence that shows this. Doc Rivers is an excellent example. The guy lost 18 straight games and won a title within a 16 month period. He coached 4 full seasons in Orlando and went .500 and then got fired after a 1-10 start to his 5th season, went to Boston and headed one above .500 team and 2 other terrible teams. Do you think anyone thought he was a good coach before 2007-2008? Nooooooo.

Okada · Post #20 » by **Okada** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:58 am

SaiCLE wrote:No my point Is that the Cavs could have at least interviewed other coaches before hiring a guy that's known to freaking fail. If Grant can't find a competent coach who could make adjustments for our current roster. Then he needs to go. No excuses, why the hell do you bring back a man who refuses to change?

I agree they should've interviewed other people but I'd say there's a good chance that any of those other hires wouldn't have seen much more success. Almost every coach eventually ends up getting exposed as severely flawed, you just want one that brings enough good to balance it out. I think it's possible for Mike Brown to do that, even though it looks like crap right now. But that's way more to do with the players than him. There's no secret magical coaching formula for perfection, unless you're one of a small handful of elite coaches. Most coaches suck in a lot of ways just like Mike Brown does.