My Thought On Roster/Love Trade (Long Post)
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:09 pm
I posted this over on RCF but since I've been hanging around here lately and haven't truly found a "home", I figured I'd bring it over here for discussion/thoughts too. There's been a lot of back and forth in other threads and I'd prefer it not get lost in the shuffle. Some of you know me from years past where I primarily posted on Cleveland.com and SaneCavsTalk as Scar4343 but as you can see I've been a Member(mostly lurker) here for many years as well.
I'm used to being an optimist but I think I'm much higher on this roster as currently constructed and it's ability to win this year AND in the future than most. Don't get me wrong, I'd take a Kevin Love trade(for the right price) but I don't think we need him and I'm kind of on the fence in even wanting him given his fit on the roster. Here's my thoughts:
PG
Starter=Kyrie Irving
Backup=Matthew Dellavedova
Summary: I think we're set at this position for the next several years. Kyrie is everything you could ask for from a point guard from a scoring standpoint: handles, creates own shot, efficient, great shooter. He's a good, but not great, passer but with LeBron James on the team he doesn't have to be the primary tablesetter. I think he will get better defensively. People often rag on young players on bad teams as being bad defenders Hell, people used to do that about LeBron James in his early years. Kyrie is big enough(6'3.5" in shoes at combine) to guard every 1 and almost every 2. He has good quickness and I think he'll put more effort into the defensive end when he doesn't have to handle so much of the offensive load.
Dellavedova is the IDEAL back-up to Kyrie because he's everything people complain about Kyrie not being. Dellavedova is a lock-down defender who is insanely tough, basketball smart and completely selfless. He also has a nice 3-pt shot and mid-range game. He's sort of like a smaller, guard-version of Anderson Varejao in a lot of ways but just substitute Varejao's rebound skills with Delly's shooting skills. Bradley Beal said that Dellavedova was the toughest defender he faced all year, he's that good. He'll only get better and he's the exact kind of "glue guy" that championship teams have. I've seen a lot of people say that Kyrie is a bad fit with LeBron because he's ball-domninant and that LeBron would be better off with a 3 and D guy at the point. That's EXACTLY what Dellavedova is at the point and he's young and cheap.
SG
Starter: Andrew Wiggins/Dion Waiters
Others: Carrick Felix, Joe Harris, Mike Miller, Ray Allen?
Summary: A lot of depth at this position and a few guys that we know can play. I like Dion Waiters on this team in the short-term and in the long-term. However, he can really be one of three things for us. He can be a quality starter running the floor with LeBron and Kyrie, a great 6th man on par with anyone in the league or our most tradeable asset. I think his production, potential and contract makes him attractive for us and for other teams. He's been productive in his two seasons and his percentages and efficiency(with the exception of FT%) improved this year and I think will get even better. On defense, he's a gritty defender and a tough guy. Definitely a guy I want on my side. Whether I'm the Cavs or another teams' GM I like the idea of seeing what he has while knowing that I have him under contract for at least the next 2 years at roughly $9 million and then have the right to match.
Wiggins I wasn't as high on until we got LeBron James. I think he's an IDEAL fit next to LeBron and stands to gain a lot from playing with him and being mentored by him. LeBron is one of the only people on the planet that can outperform Wiggins as an athlete on both ends of the floor. Wiggins has always seemed to coast a little bit on his athleticism. However, he will be challenged now and this will only make him better. He's a got a good looking stroke and can obviously get out on the break. What excites me most about him is his potential and production on defense. Rookies and young players are notoriously inconsistent but elite defensive players are consistent. I think he can be an elite defender today and guard almost anyone in the league from 1 to 3. Long-term he could be the Tracy McGrady, Scottie Pippen level some have compared him to but the chances of that are remote and a lot depends on how he approaches getting better the next few years. Even if he doesn't develop into that I think his floor is a Trevor Ariza type player which isn't a bad guy to have at all.
Felix and Harris look to be decent young players but probably won't be here long-term. However, they are guys that I think will hold some value and could be trade pieces as throw-ins in deals. Miller and possibly Allen are still great shooters that can space the floor for LeBron.
SF
Starter: LeBron James
Backups: Wiggins, Jones, Miller, who cares we have LeBron hopefully for the next 10 years
Summary: We have LeBron James and that means we really can't get any better at this position. I guess you could say it's cool we have Wiggins to spot him some rest if he shows that he's capable of playing. Jones is a veteran shooter and so is Miller.
PF
Starter: Tristan Thompson
Backups: Anthony Bennett, (Anderson Varejao), (LeBron James), Dwight Powell
Summary: I like TT as a Udonis Haslem type PF that is a good rebounder, solid defender and will do some dirty work. His shot looked better and it really showed at the FT line and outside of 15 feet(the little he shot from there). He finishes pretty well around the basket and seems smart enough that he'll get easy baskets when help is drawn to LeBron, Kyrie, Waiters, Wiggins, etc. on penetration. It's weird as hell he changed hands shooting wise but it's nice that he's able to use either one pretty well around the hoop.
I think Bennett was written off way too early(said it all last year) and that he started out behind the 8 ball last year due to shoulder surgery and could never quite get caught up. I also think he let the limelight and negativity affect him and his confidence was non-existence. He's done a lot in just a few short months to address his conditioning and health problems and LeBron will do wonders to help him out. LeBron has always had the ability to project confidence onto his teammates and he's always made it a point to believe in his teammates. Bennett has skill, he's fixing his conditioning and if he keeps that up, LeBron will fix his confidence by going to him time and again until he feels comfortable. I think he can be a very good rebounder and play a stretch 4 role. I actually can't think of a good comparison for him but I think he'll at least be a starter in the league someday.
Teams go small a lot these days so the 4 position has really changed. I'm not sure Powell will even make the team unless we make a trade of other players on the roster. Roster spots are getting tight.
C
Starter: Anderson Varejao
Backups: Brendan Haywood's corpse, Dwight Powell, (Thompson)
Summary: This position scares the hell out of me. I love Andy but he has always been best as a backup and pairing him with Thompson leaves us with suspect shooting from our bigs in the lineup. Even if he was an ideal fit as a starter, he can't be counted on to stay on the court. That leaves us either woefully undersized up front or starting Brendan Haywood(who I'd rather see rack up DNPs until we flip his contract in a trade next year) or a late 2nd-round pick at Center.
This position is one of the biggest reasons I'm not fully on the Love bandwagon. From just a frontcourt perspective, if we swapped him for Bennet do we get better? ABSOLUTELY. However, it's still a one-for-one swap between a guy who can't guard Centers to a guy who can't guard anyone. (To be fair, Love is a good rebounder(which helps defensively) and what I said about Kyrie's defense could apply to him as well in that he may turn things around on a better team, with better teammates and more expectations.) Even if Andy stays healthy all year, I don't want him racking up big minutes. He plays way too hard for that and we'll need him come playoff time. Now if we could get a young, defensive big like Dieng in a Love trade that could make us better at two spots but that remains to be seen. I think from a trade perspective, if we really, truly are looking to trade some of our young assets for frontcourt help I'd rather it be at the 5. I know, I know there hasn't been anyone at the 5 that has said they're leaving like Love. There's no one available. I'm content with shopping around and waiting to see if there will be.
In the mean time, I'm not sure what we'll do at this position. Okafor's neck issues scare the hell out of me and the rest of them are pretty much garbage. I'd be curious to see what Dion Waiters and 2 1st round picks might fetch us around the league.
I'll say this, I'm excited as hell to see this team this year and would love to see who gets better and meshes with LeBron and who doesn't. I think that might affect a lot of what our needs are via trade and what we could get for some of our players via trade.
I'm used to being an optimist but I think I'm much higher on this roster as currently constructed and it's ability to win this year AND in the future than most. Don't get me wrong, I'd take a Kevin Love trade(for the right price) but I don't think we need him and I'm kind of on the fence in even wanting him given his fit on the roster. Here's my thoughts:
PG
Starter=Kyrie Irving
Backup=Matthew Dellavedova
Summary: I think we're set at this position for the next several years. Kyrie is everything you could ask for from a point guard from a scoring standpoint: handles, creates own shot, efficient, great shooter. He's a good, but not great, passer but with LeBron James on the team he doesn't have to be the primary tablesetter. I think he will get better defensively. People often rag on young players on bad teams as being bad defenders Hell, people used to do that about LeBron James in his early years. Kyrie is big enough(6'3.5" in shoes at combine) to guard every 1 and almost every 2. He has good quickness and I think he'll put more effort into the defensive end when he doesn't have to handle so much of the offensive load.
Dellavedova is the IDEAL back-up to Kyrie because he's everything people complain about Kyrie not being. Dellavedova is a lock-down defender who is insanely tough, basketball smart and completely selfless. He also has a nice 3-pt shot and mid-range game. He's sort of like a smaller, guard-version of Anderson Varejao in a lot of ways but just substitute Varejao's rebound skills with Delly's shooting skills. Bradley Beal said that Dellavedova was the toughest defender he faced all year, he's that good. He'll only get better and he's the exact kind of "glue guy" that championship teams have. I've seen a lot of people say that Kyrie is a bad fit with LeBron because he's ball-domninant and that LeBron would be better off with a 3 and D guy at the point. That's EXACTLY what Dellavedova is at the point and he's young and cheap.
SG
Starter: Andrew Wiggins/Dion Waiters
Others: Carrick Felix, Joe Harris, Mike Miller, Ray Allen?
Summary: A lot of depth at this position and a few guys that we know can play. I like Dion Waiters on this team in the short-term and in the long-term. However, he can really be one of three things for us. He can be a quality starter running the floor with LeBron and Kyrie, a great 6th man on par with anyone in the league or our most tradeable asset. I think his production, potential and contract makes him attractive for us and for other teams. He's been productive in his two seasons and his percentages and efficiency(with the exception of FT%) improved this year and I think will get even better. On defense, he's a gritty defender and a tough guy. Definitely a guy I want on my side. Whether I'm the Cavs or another teams' GM I like the idea of seeing what he has while knowing that I have him under contract for at least the next 2 years at roughly $9 million and then have the right to match.
Wiggins I wasn't as high on until we got LeBron James. I think he's an IDEAL fit next to LeBron and stands to gain a lot from playing with him and being mentored by him. LeBron is one of the only people on the planet that can outperform Wiggins as an athlete on both ends of the floor. Wiggins has always seemed to coast a little bit on his athleticism. However, he will be challenged now and this will only make him better. He's a got a good looking stroke and can obviously get out on the break. What excites me most about him is his potential and production on defense. Rookies and young players are notoriously inconsistent but elite defensive players are consistent. I think he can be an elite defender today and guard almost anyone in the league from 1 to 3. Long-term he could be the Tracy McGrady, Scottie Pippen level some have compared him to but the chances of that are remote and a lot depends on how he approaches getting better the next few years. Even if he doesn't develop into that I think his floor is a Trevor Ariza type player which isn't a bad guy to have at all.
Felix and Harris look to be decent young players but probably won't be here long-term. However, they are guys that I think will hold some value and could be trade pieces as throw-ins in deals. Miller and possibly Allen are still great shooters that can space the floor for LeBron.
SF
Starter: LeBron James
Backups: Wiggins, Jones, Miller, who cares we have LeBron hopefully for the next 10 years
Summary: We have LeBron James and that means we really can't get any better at this position. I guess you could say it's cool we have Wiggins to spot him some rest if he shows that he's capable of playing. Jones is a veteran shooter and so is Miller.
PF
Starter: Tristan Thompson
Backups: Anthony Bennett, (Anderson Varejao), (LeBron James), Dwight Powell
Summary: I like TT as a Udonis Haslem type PF that is a good rebounder, solid defender and will do some dirty work. His shot looked better and it really showed at the FT line and outside of 15 feet(the little he shot from there). He finishes pretty well around the basket and seems smart enough that he'll get easy baskets when help is drawn to LeBron, Kyrie, Waiters, Wiggins, etc. on penetration. It's weird as hell he changed hands shooting wise but it's nice that he's able to use either one pretty well around the hoop.
I think Bennett was written off way too early(said it all last year) and that he started out behind the 8 ball last year due to shoulder surgery and could never quite get caught up. I also think he let the limelight and negativity affect him and his confidence was non-existence. He's done a lot in just a few short months to address his conditioning and health problems and LeBron will do wonders to help him out. LeBron has always had the ability to project confidence onto his teammates and he's always made it a point to believe in his teammates. Bennett has skill, he's fixing his conditioning and if he keeps that up, LeBron will fix his confidence by going to him time and again until he feels comfortable. I think he can be a very good rebounder and play a stretch 4 role. I actually can't think of a good comparison for him but I think he'll at least be a starter in the league someday.
Teams go small a lot these days so the 4 position has really changed. I'm not sure Powell will even make the team unless we make a trade of other players on the roster. Roster spots are getting tight.
C
Starter: Anderson Varejao
Backups: Brendan Haywood's corpse, Dwight Powell, (Thompson)
Summary: This position scares the hell out of me. I love Andy but he has always been best as a backup and pairing him with Thompson leaves us with suspect shooting from our bigs in the lineup. Even if he was an ideal fit as a starter, he can't be counted on to stay on the court. That leaves us either woefully undersized up front or starting Brendan Haywood(who I'd rather see rack up DNPs until we flip his contract in a trade next year) or a late 2nd-round pick at Center.
This position is one of the biggest reasons I'm not fully on the Love bandwagon. From just a frontcourt perspective, if we swapped him for Bennet do we get better? ABSOLUTELY. However, it's still a one-for-one swap between a guy who can't guard Centers to a guy who can't guard anyone. (To be fair, Love is a good rebounder(which helps defensively) and what I said about Kyrie's defense could apply to him as well in that he may turn things around on a better team, with better teammates and more expectations.) Even if Andy stays healthy all year, I don't want him racking up big minutes. He plays way too hard for that and we'll need him come playoff time. Now if we could get a young, defensive big like Dieng in a Love trade that could make us better at two spots but that remains to be seen. I think from a trade perspective, if we really, truly are looking to trade some of our young assets for frontcourt help I'd rather it be at the 5. I know, I know there hasn't been anyone at the 5 that has said they're leaving like Love. There's no one available. I'm content with shopping around and waiting to see if there will be.
In the mean time, I'm not sure what we'll do at this position. Okafor's neck issues scare the hell out of me and the rest of them are pretty much garbage. I'd be curious to see what Dion Waiters and 2 1st round picks might fetch us around the league.
I'll say this, I'm excited as hell to see this team this year and would love to see who gets better and meshes with LeBron and who doesn't. I think that might affect a lot of what our needs are via trade and what we could get for some of our players via trade.
