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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1221 » by jbk1234 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:49 pm

316Hornets wrote:Thoughts on Kevin Love's trade value? Biggest concern for me would be his contract combined with injury history. Is he able to play an entire season for a contending team or is he someone you have to nurse until the playoffs?
I think the delta between what the Cavs want and what other teams will give is too great tbh. He's 31 so you don't want to play him 48 minutes for 82 games, but he can still give you 70 games. Like with every other star over the age of 28, load management is recommended.

But I firmly believe if he was a F.A. this summer, he'd get a very similar contract to the one he's presently on. I'd much rather have him than LMA, Horford, Griffin, Westbrook, CP3, Wall, etc.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1222 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 1, 2020 3:26 am

316Hornets wrote:Thoughts on Kevin Love's trade value? Biggest concern for me would be his contract combined with injury history. Is he able to play an entire season for a contending team or is he someone you have to nurse until the playoffs?


Yes you need to load manage him to keep his back in check, but if you go after him it should be about his EC playoff experience rather than the regular season. His floor spacing and rebounding from the 4 and occasionally the 5 can be a major weapon if you have the other pieces in place to unlock it and help him defensively.

His contract is huge, but you have to match it, so its all relative to what you'd be giving up. The Cavs aren't looking for expiring contracts so much as assets. If you give them an expiring, they'll just try to turn it in to an asset in another deal. In other words, you can dump a bad contract on the Cavs as long as the right mix of young players and picks is included.

How's Batum doing?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1223 » by Stillwater » Sun Jan 5, 2020 2:56 am

Love to anywhere for expirings is starting to seem likely if he continues to display reported "insane screaming tantrum outbursts directed at the GM "that get leaked to the media lowering any leverage this org had with him being no longer content with this rebuild.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1224 » by gflem » Sun Jan 5, 2020 5:42 pm

Stillwater wrote:Love to anywhere for expirings is starting to seem likely if he continues to display reported "insane screaming tantrum outbursts directed at the GM "that get leaked to the media lowering any leverage this org had with him being no longer content with this rebuild.

Expirings? The team may have to take back bad contract(s) at this point. I think his "value" has gone from slightly plus to slightly negative at this point.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1225 » by Stillwater » Sun Jan 5, 2020 6:08 pm

he definitely wants to play for a different coach that lets his team flow free and not have regimented difficult sets to skills ratios. I think Beilein is probably going to get another season before hes on the hot seat given its a rebuild and that is what he is committed too and doing over winning.. coaching and playing heavy minutes -the youth. But Altman might fold if he cant trade Love and instead get a pushover coach that uses the personnel to their strengths individually instead of trying to build something long term and the result will be KLove gets his numbers and they never get off the treadmill the entire time hes under contract.
I think that his value has already been way undercut by media stories like these that discount what he actually brings to a roster that knows how to or at the least tries to utilize him for what he is.
gflem wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Love to anywhere for expirings is starting to seem likely if he continues to display reported "insane screaming tantrum outbursts directed at the GM "that get leaked to the media lowering any leverage this org had with him being no longer content with this rebuild.

Expirings? The team may have to take back bad contract(s) at this point. I think his "value" has gone from slightly plus to slightly negative at this point.


it got way overblown as usual...
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1226 » by VCfor3 » Sun Jan 5, 2020 6:20 pm

gflem wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Love to anywhere for expirings is starting to seem likely if he continues to display reported "insane screaming tantrum outbursts directed at the GM "that get leaked to the media lowering any leverage this org had with him being no longer content with this rebuild.

Expirings? The team may have to take back bad contract(s) at this point. I think his "value" has gone from slightly plus to slightly negative at this point.

With his contract I think Love has been negative the whole time. That said, if anyone wants to pry him away from Cleveland they have to give up clearly positive value. Even with his latest shenanigans I think that is still the case. Love can help a team in the immediate future prior to being a potential anchor later on. Someone will trade for that if they think he is the last piece to achieve whatever goal their team has.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1227 » by gflem » Sun Jan 5, 2020 6:36 pm

Stillwater wrote:he definitely wants to play for a different coach that lets his team flow free and not have regimented difficult sets to skills ratios. I think Beilein is probably going to get another season before hes on the hot seat given its a rebuild and that is what he is committed too and doing over winning.. coaching and playing heavy minutes -the youth. But Altman might fold if he cant trade Love and instead get a pushover coach that uses the personnel to their strengths individually instead of trying to build something long term and the result will be KLove gets his numbers and they never get off the treadmill the entire time hes under contract.
I think that his value has already been way undercut by media stories like these that discount what he actually brings to a roster that knows how to or at the least tries to utilize him for what he is.
gflem wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Love to anywhere for expirings is starting to seem likely if he continues to display reported "insane screaming tantrum outbursts directed at the GM "that get leaked to the media lowering any leverage this org had with him being no longer content with this rebuild.

Expirings? The team may have to take back bad contract(s) at this point. I think his "value" has gone from slightly plus to slightly negative at this point.


it got way overblown as usual...

Yeah, I referenced this on my post in the GB. That said, it can still be used as leverage from a team looking to low ball an offer.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1228 » by Stillwater » Sun Jan 5, 2020 6:41 pm

^ unless Altman feels Love will become a locker room cancer or continue to show lack of self control, and violent outbursts are not controlled by meds...then he might just take anything to get rid of him but the odds are greater he lets him simmer and fall out of the rotation if thats what it takes to justify moving him for nothing. I also dont for a second think Gilbert would agree to give up assets to move one.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1229 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 5, 2020 7:54 pm

Stillwater wrote:^ unless Altman feels Love will become a locker room cancer or continue to show lack of self control, and violent outbursts are not controlled by meds...then he might just take anything to get rid of him but the odds are greater he lets him simmer and fall out of the rotation if thats what it takes to justify moving him for nothing. I also dont for a second think Gilbert would agree to give up assets to move one.


Violent outbursts controlled by meds? Wut?

He hit a chair out of frustration. I can name a half a dozen big men who would've tuned up players in the locker room before it ever got to this point. I feel like there needs to be a reality check here. The Cavs big men will either be part of the offense, or not. If it's all setting screens, garbage buckets, and rim running from here on out, then be prepared to be a lottery team for the next decade.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1230 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 6, 2020 12:12 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ unless Altman feels Love will become a locker room cancer or continue to show lack of self control, and violent outbursts are not controlled by meds...then he might just take anything to get rid of him but the odds are greater he lets him simmer and fall out of the rotation if thats what it takes to justify moving him for nothing. I also dont for a second think Gilbert would agree to give up assets to move one.


Violent outbursts controlled by meds? Wut?

He hit a chair out of frustration. I can name a half a dozen big men who would've tuned up players in the locker room before it ever got to this point. I feel like there needs to be a reality check here. The Cavs big men will either be part of the offense, or not. If it's all setting screens, garbage buckets, and rim running from here on out, then be prepared to be a lottery team for the next decade.

some sarcasm but not untrue... a lot of people myself included have been administered meds during times of high stress due to PTSD to muzzle uncontrolled outbursts and sometimes they help but most of the time they just make you forget why you care about anything and its easy to stop them for awhile because feeling the reality of a situation as bad as it may be is better than feeling numb.
He has admitted to having mental health issues, I am not sure the root cause or if it is comparable to PTSD but why you think he aint on meds for it is beyond me
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1231 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jan 6, 2020 5:05 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^ unless Altman feels Love will become a locker room cancer or continue to show lack of self control, and violent outbursts are not controlled by meds...then he might just take anything to get rid of him but the odds are greater he lets him simmer and fall out of the rotation if thats what it takes to justify moving him for nothing. I also dont for a second think Gilbert would agree to give up assets to move one.


Violent outbursts controlled by meds? Wut?

He hit a chair out of frustration. I can name a half a dozen big men who would've tuned up players in the locker room before it ever got to this point. I feel like there needs to be a reality check here. The Cavs big men will either be part of the offense, or not. If it's all setting screens, garbage buckets, and rim running from here on out, then be prepared to be a lottery team for the next decade.

some sarcasm but not untrue... a lot of people myself included have been administered meds during times of high stress due to PTSD to muzzle uncontrolled outbursts and sometimes they help but most of the time they just make you forget why you care about anything and its easy to stop them for awhile because feeling the reality of a situation as bad as it may be is better than feeling numb.
He has admitted to having mental health issues, I am not sure the root cause or if it is comparable to PTSD but why you think he aint on meds for it is beyond me


Dude, he suffered from an anxiety disorder, e.g., panic attacks and you totally ducked the issue. This has nothing to do with meds. No good big man is going to be okay with Sexton playing this way night in and night out. Is the plan to build a team without one? For that matter, are we trading Garland next? We don't need a guy to run the offense if the offense is going to be Sexton going YOLO. Maybe if we really work at it we can crater Garland's trade value too.

It's getting to the point where I want Love traded just so the spacing and sealing on the post ups that Sexton is currently taking for granted go away and folks can stop telling themselves that this is, in any way, winning basketball. This is worse than the Kyrie and Dion rebuild and it's not going to get better with him. I mean all he had do was prioritize Love in the offense for 30 games so the Cavs could get decent value for him, and after Love was traded, he could've taken 25 FGs per night. This isn't youth either. This is something else. He's not a 20 year old lobotomy survivor. He just doesn't care and the organization apparently doesn't care enough to step in and fix it.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1232 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 6, 2020 5:11 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Violent outbursts controlled by meds? Wut?

He hit a chair out of frustration. I can name a half a dozen big men who would've tuned up players in the locker room before it ever got to this point. I feel like there needs to be a reality check here. The Cavs big men will either be part of the offense, or not. If it's all setting screens, garbage buckets, and rim running from here on out, then be prepared to be a lottery team for the next decade.

some sarcasm but not untrue... a lot of people myself included have been administered meds during times of high stress due to PTSD to muzzle uncontrolled outbursts and sometimes they help but most of the time they just make you forget why you care about anything and its easy to stop them for awhile because feeling the reality of a situation as bad as it may be is better than feeling numb.
He has admitted to having mental health issues, I am not sure the root cause or if it is comparable to PTSD but why you think he aint on meds for it is beyond me


Dude, he suffered from an anxiety disorder, e.g., panic attacks and you totally ducked the issue. This has nothing to do with meds. No good big man is going to be okay with Sexton playing this way night in and night out. Is the plan to build a team without one? For that matter, are we trading Garland next? We don't need a guy to run the offense if the offense is going to be Sexton going YOLO. Maybe if we really work at it we can crater Garland's trade value too.

It's getting to the point where I want Love traded just so the spacing and sealing on the post ups that Sexton is currently taking for granted go away and folks can stop telling themselves that this is, in any way, winning basketball. This is worse than the Kyrie and Dion rebuild and it's not going to get better with him. I mean all he had do was prioritize Love in the offense for 30 games so the Cavs could get decent value for him, and after Love was traded, he could've taken 25 FGs per night. This isn't youth either. This is something else. He's not a 20 year old lobotomy survivor. He just doesn't care and the organization apparently doesn't care enough to step in and fix it.

Sorry just don't see it that way ...
Love may not be on meds or need any but if that's true it doesn't explain anything.
Sexton doesn't care about being what he isn't that is true...and this org is fine with him struggling and they should be at this point. Now that kpj is prob out for the season and after seeing what Exum can do this org might feel more comfortable letting Garland finish the season off the bench with Exum.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1233 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jan 6, 2020 5:22 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:some sarcasm but not untrue... a lot of people myself included have been administered meds during times of high stress due to PTSD to muzzle uncontrolled outbursts and sometimes they help but most of the time they just make you forget why you care about anything and its easy to stop them for awhile because feeling the reality of a situation as bad as it may be is better than feeling numb.
He has admitted to having mental health issues, I am not sure the root cause or if it is comparable to PTSD but why you think he aint on meds for it is beyond me


Dude, he suffered from an anxiety disorder, e.g., panic attacks and you totally ducked the issue. This has nothing to do with meds. No good big man is going to be okay with Sexton playing this way night in and night out. Is the plan to build a team without one? For that matter, are we trading Garland next? We don't need a guy to run the offense if the offense is going to be Sexton going YOLO. Maybe if we really work at it we can crater Garland's trade value too.

It's getting to the point where I want Love traded just so the spacing and sealing on the post ups that Sexton is currently taking for granted go away and folks can stop telling themselves that this is, in any way, winning basketball. This is worse than the Kyrie and Dion rebuild and it's not going to get better with him. I mean all he had do was prioritize Love in the offense for 30 games so the Cavs could get decent value for him, and after Love was traded, he could've taken 25 FGs per night. This isn't youth either. This is something else. He's not a 20 year old lobotomy survivor. He just doesn't care and the organization apparently doesn't care enough to step in and fix it.

Sorry just don't see it that way ...
Love may not be on meds or need any but if that's true it doesn't explain anything.
Sexton doesn't care about being what he isn't that is true...and this org is fine with him struggling and they should be at this point. Now that kpj is prob out for the season and after seeing what Exum can do this org might feel more comfortable letting Garland finish the season off the bench with Exum.


He's not *struggling,* he just doesn't care. He's averaging almost 16FGA per game and only 2.3 apg. He wasn't dropped on his head as a small child. The concept of sharing the ball and running an offense isn't MENSA level stuff. It's not like we're talking about a bad ten-game stretch where he's played too selfishly. It's half an entire season.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1234 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 6, 2020 5:34 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Dude, he suffered from an anxiety disorder, e.g., panic attacks and you totally ducked the issue. This has nothing to do with meds. No good big man is going to be okay with Sexton playing this way night in and night out. Is the plan to build a team without one? For that matter, are we trading Garland next? We don't need a guy to run the offense if the offense is going to be Sexton going YOLO. Maybe if we really work at it we can crater Garland's trade value too.

It's getting to the point where I want Love traded just so the spacing and sealing on the post ups that Sexton is currently taking for granted go away and folks can stop telling themselves that this is, in any way, winning basketball. This is worse than the Kyrie and Dion rebuild and it's not going to get better with him. I mean all he had do was prioritize Love in the offense for 30 games so the Cavs could get decent value for him, and after Love was traded, he could've taken 25 FGs per night. This isn't youth either. This is something else. He's not a 20 year old lobotomy survivor. He just doesn't care and the organization apparently doesn't care enough to step in and fix it.

Sorry just don't see it that way ...
Love may not be on meds or need any but if that's true it doesn't explain anything.
Sexton doesn't care about being what he isn't that is true...and this org is fine with him struggling and they should be at this point. Now that kpj is prob out for the season and after seeing what Exum can do this org might feel more comfortable letting Garland finish the season off the bench with Exum.


He's not *struggling,* he just doesn't care. He's averaging almost 16FGA per game and only 2.3 apg. He wasn't dropped on his head as a small child. The concept of sharing the ball and running an offense isn't MENSA level stuff. It's not like we're talking about a bad ten-game stretch where he's played too selfishly. It's half an entire season.

You can blame the guy all you like but it goes back to Beilein calling plays out and Sexton trying to run them more than ignoring the open man esp while Love is fighting these sets in favor of improvisation and capitalize on breakdowns like most pros do. This a case of a college coach coaching the NBA like a college team.
This is what Beilein said about Sexton dribbling past the half court line before half time:
In his first year in the NBA, Beilein said he told Love at halftime it was his mistake.

"I was trying to get us to slow down and try to get, not the last shot, but close to the last shot. He had Chris Paul posted up, I didn’t see it. It was on me, I called something else," Beilein said. “At halftime I said, 'My bad, I missed you.' "
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1235 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jan 6, 2020 5:47 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Sorry just don't see it that way ...
Love may not be on meds or need any but if that's true it doesn't explain anything.
Sexton doesn't care about being what he isn't that is true...and this org is fine with him struggling and they should be at this point. Now that kpj is prob out for the season and after seeing what Exum can do this org might feel more comfortable letting Garland finish the season off the bench with Exum.


He's not *struggling,* he just doesn't care. He's averaging almost 16FGA per game and only 2.3 apg. He wasn't dropped on his head as a small child. The concept of sharing the ball and running an offense isn't MENSA level stuff. It's not like we're talking about a bad ten-game stretch where he's played too selfishly. It's half an entire season.

You can blame the guy all you like but it goes back to Beilein calling plays out and Sexton trying to run them more than ignoring the open man esp while Love is fighting these sets in favor of improvisation and capitalize on breakdowns like most pros do. This a case of a college coach coaching the NBA like a college team.
This is what Beilein said about Sexton dribbling past the half court line before half time:
In his first year in the NBA, Beilein said he told Love at halftime it was his mistake.

"I was trying to get us to slow down and try to get, not the last shot, but close to the last shot. He had Chris Paul posted up, I didn’t see it. It was on me, I called something else," Beilein said. “At halftime I said, 'My bad, I missed you.' "


That was one play at the end of a half. How about the other thousand that preceded it when the coach wasn't telling Sexton to run the clock out? I can't even entertain this conversation anymore. It requires a willful suspension of disbelief to think that Sexton is playing as selfishly as he is because of Beilein, or Garland, or Love, or anyone other than himself.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1236 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 6, 2020 2:58 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
He's not *struggling,* he just doesn't care. He's averaging almost 16FGA per game and only 2.3 apg. He wasn't dropped on his head as a small child. The concept of sharing the ball and running an offense isn't MENSA level stuff. It's not like we're talking about a bad ten-game stretch where he's played too selfishly. It's half an entire season.

You can blame the guy all you like but it goes back to Beilein calling plays out and Sexton trying to run them more than ignoring the open man esp while Love is fighting these sets in favor of improvisation and capitalize on breakdowns like most pros do. This a case of a college coach coaching the NBA like a college team.
This is what Beilein said about Sexton dribbling past the half court line before half time:
In his first year in the NBA, Beilein said he told Love at halftime it was his mistake.

"I was trying to get us to slow down and try to get, not the last shot, but close to the last shot. He had Chris Paul posted up, I didn’t see it. It was on me, I called something else," Beilein said. “At halftime I said, 'My bad, I missed you.' "


That was one play at the end of a half. How about the other thousand that preceded it when the coach wasn't telling Sexton to run the clock out? I can't even entertain this conversation anymore. It requires a willful suspension of disbelief to think that Sexton is playing as selfishly as he is because of Beilein, or Garland, or Love, or anyone other than himself.

The plays are not being executed well by anyone really.
Beilein needs to cut them loose more and then we'd know what we have.there is no way he'd still be starting given the lack of successful distribution unless he was doing what they are wanting him to do and tbh If anyone on the team besides Henson could get above the rim at the rim these guards would have an easier time getting closer to the basket.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1237 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 6, 2020 3:10 pm

I think it's time they entertain playing all the good vets together and giving Sexton , Garland and Osman a couple games off for one to see if knight or Delly can help pad TT and Loves stats enough to make them look like they are better options than when playing with 2 combo guards
And to let the young players realize they need to ignore the coach sometimes and make the improving passes and reactions that win games at this level instead of being so flat with easily read plays. Beilein really really needs to mix it up to boost some trade values. Right now the development is sort of on idle as well so can't hurt to actually put a few winning combos out there instead of ones that are core projects as well as the fact these young guards eventually are going to break down after all this losing
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1238 » by tleikheen » Mon Jan 6, 2020 10:43 pm

The more Exum (6'5") has the ball in his hands the more obvious it becomes that he's the best (PG) on the Cavaliers roster. This definitely upsets the midget offense that Cleveland via draft has built. Put Kevin Porter Jr (6'4") at (SG) and trade for Gordon Hayward (6'7") (SF) and moving Kevin Love to Boston. Trade Tristan Thompson for Dwayne Dedmon (7'0) (C) and Harry Giles (6'10") (PF) from Sacramento .Dedmond has asked to be traded and Harry Giles hasn't been resigned and put them in as the new frontcourt.
This puts Sexton as 6th man and Garland backing up Exum. It doesn't mean their isn't a bright future for Garland but he stills needs to learn how to run a offense if he isn't a factor defensively and Sexton is a offense 1st BB player, suitable for 6th man. Cedi Osman just isn't in Haywards league as a BB player. Cleveland as Love and Thompson as viable assets and hopefully can make good trades to get in young talent. I don't know why Giles wasn't resigned but he could be a really good find for PF.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1239 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jan 6, 2020 10:48 pm

Cook and McKinnie were waived. There may be a trade incoming.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1240 » by Revenged25 » Mon Jan 6, 2020 11:16 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Cook and McKinnie were waived. There may be a trade incoming.

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No other reason to waive McKinnie who it's reported the Cavs want to resign if he clears waivers.

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