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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1361 » by jbk1234 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:50 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.

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If they do move him for a bad expiring it better be a 21 1st and tbh if Love is out I am more concerned my fears they are considering drafting Toppin are probably coming true too...if that transpires I may have to forfeit my fandom.The kid has T-Robb bust written all over him
He's at least Derrick Williams bust.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1362 » by Stillwater » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.

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If they do move him for a bad expiring it better be a 21 1st and tbh if Love is out I am more concerned my fears they are considering drafting Toppin are probably coming true too...if that transpires I may have to forfeit my fandom.The kid has T-Robb bust written all over him
He's at least Derrick Williams bust.

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we already had our top 5 bust pick from a meh conference in Bennett and although the A10 is far more respectable than the mountain west or whatever UNLV was in then it was the same kind of offensive skill set dunk dunk dunk make open 3 dunk dunk dunk dont defend the paint dont defend the perimeter save energy for dunk dunk dunk shoot open 3 dunk dunk dunk
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1363 » by Stillwater » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:56 am

I am not buying the Love to GSW rumor, but if it did happen I am guessing something like this:https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7348817
Love to GSW + 33rd pick from MINN
Green to MINN with #51from GSW org from UTAH.
# 17 from MINN w/ James Johnsons expiring (has to opt in) and Layman to CLE + Denver 2021 2nd owned by GSW
all 3 teams keep their lottery picks Cavs get out of Loves contract and pick up a ok fringe rotation forward and the 17th
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1364 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:37 pm

Stillwater wrote:I am not buying the Love to GSW rumor, but if it did happen I am guessing something like this:https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7348817
Love to GSW + 33rd pick from MINN
Green to MINN with #51from GSW org from UTAH.
# 17 from MINN w/ James Johnsons expiring (has to opt in) and Layman to CLE + Denver 2021 2nd owned by GSW
all 3 teams keep their lottery picks Cavs get out of Loves contract and pick up a ok fringe rotation forward and the 17th
GS won't trade Green to the Wolves. If they did, next year's Minny pick could be non-lottery.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1365 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:52 pm

Doesn't look like the player option guys will be available to be traded on draft night.
Read on Twitter
?s=20

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1366 » by jbk1234 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:33 pm

The 2022 Bucks pick just became unprotected.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1367 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:55 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.


While I agree, he checked out at times last season and we're not going to miss that, nor his injuries, or the frailty of his back. So, yes, he will look a lot better on a contender (for as long as he can stay healthy) but we wouldn't see that unless we became one.

So, yeah, I think there's a good argument to flush all the veterans who saw our rebuild as a joke until they were told they couldn't be traded unless they raised their trade value on the floor.

Keep Nance, he never cheated us, but Love, Drummond, and Tristan are easily expendable if we insist that our vets actually lead.

Make way for Dean Wade, Marques Bolden, Jordan Bell, whoever we draft, and whatever scraps we get in trade.

Sounds like a recipe for another lottery pick, which apparently is not the goal of the organization, though.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1368 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:00 pm

jbk1234 wrote:The 2022 Bucks pick just became unprotected.


lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1369 » by Stillwater » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:36 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The 2022 Bucks pick just became unprotected.


lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.

he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1370 » by Revenged25 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The 2022 Bucks pick just became unprotected.


lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.

he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Isn't that supposed to be the 1st draft for High Schoolers to declare again? Still a potentially valuable pick due to a surplus of eligible draftees.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1371 » by Stillwater » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:49 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.

he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Isn't that supposed to be the 1st draft for High Schoolers to declare again? Still a potentially valuable pick due to a surplus of eligible draftees.

read somewhere the NBA is leaning against that being the case in 22.
If it is ok I can buy maybe some long term project prospect that skips college could be there in the 25-30 range but it wont be anyone the Cavs would draft near the end of a rebuild imo. Assuming they are not on a treadmill in 2 seasons
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1372 » by Revenged25 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:04 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Isn't that supposed to be the 1st draft for High Schoolers to declare again? Still a potentially valuable pick due to a surplus of eligible draftees.

read somewhere the NBA is leaning against that being the case in 22.
If it is ok I can buy maybe some long term project prospect that skips college could be there in the 25-30 range but it wont be anyone the Cavs would draft near the end of a rebuild imo. Assuming they are not on a treadmill in 2 seasons


There is also the case that some of the prospects that would've been available in the 10-18 range drop back to 25-30 range due to HS prospects being overdrafted which can sometimes occur.

Until they officially change the rule to '22 not being the year of the HSers being added, I'm going to continue to assume it will e.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1373 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The 2022 Bucks pick just became unprotected.


lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.

he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Let's take some wild guesses ... 92% chance Giannis likes these moves and stays, 98% chance they don't implode, 90% chance they don't suffer major injuries that drop them in to the lottery.

Multiply that all together and subtract from 1.0 and I figure we have a 18.9% chance at a lottery pick that could end up a top-4 pick.

We've beaten worse odds than that before. :lol:
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1374 » by Stillwater » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:14 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
lol, and we got a pick for the bother. Milwaukee is sure showing us what "all in" for a player looks like, but if they end up losing Giannis or he suffers a major injury, I'm not sure their roster can stay out of the lottery.

he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Let's take some wild guesses ... 92% chance Giannis likes these moves and stays, 98% chance they don't implode, 90% chance they don't suffer major injuries that drop them in to the lottery.

Multiply that all together and subtract from 1.0 and I figure we have a 18.9% chance at a lottery pick that could end up a top-4 pick.

We've beaten worse odds than that before. :lol:

yeah the reality is the pick is meh and that is all
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1375 » by jbk1234 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:17 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.


While I agree, he checked out at times last season and we're not going to miss that, nor his injuries, or the frailty of his back. So, yes, he will look a lot better on a contender (for as long as he can stay healthy) but we wouldn't see that unless we became one.

So, yeah, I think there's a good argument to flush all the veterans who saw our rebuild as a joke until they were told they couldn't be traded unless they raised their trade value on the floor.

Keep Nance, he never cheated us, but Love, Drummond, and Tristan are easily expendable if we insist that our vets actually lead.

Make way for Dean Wade, Marques Bolden, Jordan Bell, whoever we draft, and whatever scraps we get in trade.

Sounds like a recipe for another lottery pick, which apparently is not the goal of the organization, though.
My response to that is that well run organizations don't sign good big men to those types of contracts and then destroy their trade value by force feeding selfish young guards a ton of starting minutes. The inability or unwillingness to correct that situation was borderline inexplicable. It's not like there's another good big man who would've tolerated that.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1376 » by Stillwater » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:25 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.


While I agree, he checked out at times last season and we're not going to miss that, nor his injuries, or the frailty of his back. So, yes, he will look a lot better on a contender (for as long as he can stay healthy) but we wouldn't see that unless we became one.

So, yeah, I think there's a good argument to flush all the veterans who saw our rebuild as a joke until they were told they couldn't be traded unless they raised their trade value on the floor.

Keep Nance, he never cheated us, but Love, Drummond, and Tristan are easily expendable if we insist that our vets actually lead.

Make way for Dean Wade, Marques Bolden, Jordan Bell, whoever we draft, and whatever scraps we get in trade.

Sounds like a recipe for another lottery pick, which apparently is not the goal of the organization, though.
My response to that is that well run organizations don't sign good big men to those types of contracts and then destroy their trade value by force feeding selfish young guards a ton of starting minutes. The inability or unwillingness to correct that situation was borderline inexplicable. It's not like there's another good big man who would've tolerated that.

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I think it was a given once the other vets checked out knowing that they were rolling with Sextons development through heavy usage and at this point appears to have paid off.
I highly doubt they are dumb enough to move Love if the offers are nothing but the typical low ball types on these forums. But he is overpaid on a rebuilding roster and everyone outside CLE knows he would be a plug and play guy on a contender easily if it were not such a struggle to get him with that type of $ having to be sent out from whomever wanted him.
He is maybe gone after tonight but if so the return will be better than people on these boards [not the cavs board] think otherwise he is still in the wine and gold this season is the way I see it.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1377 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:39 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Love may actually be on the move for an expiring and late first. I feel like the Cavs fans who dogpiled him for what he wasn't, are really going to miss the spacing, defensive rebounding, and secondary facilitation he brought on offense.

There's a chance that Love looks much better on another team, and if that happens, I hope the Cavs F.O. is capable of the type of introspection that will be required to make the necessary team management improvements going forward.


While I agree, he checked out at times last season and we're not going to miss that, nor his injuries, or the frailty of his back. So, yes, he will look a lot better on a contender (for as long as he can stay healthy) but we wouldn't see that unless we became one.

So, yeah, I think there's a good argument to flush all the veterans who saw our rebuild as a joke until they were told they couldn't be traded unless they raised their trade value on the floor.

Keep Nance, he never cheated us, but Love, Drummond, and Tristan are easily expendable if we insist that our vets actually lead.

Make way for Dean Wade, Marques Bolden, Jordan Bell, whoever we draft, and whatever scraps we get in trade.

Sounds like a recipe for another lottery pick, which apparently is not the goal of the organization, though.
My response to that is that well run organizations don't sign good big men to those types of contracts and then destroy their trade value by force feeding selfish young guards a ton of starting minutes. The inability or unwillingness to correct that situation was borderline inexplicable. It's not like there's another good big man who would've tolerated that.


Well, not to state the obvious, but 4 coaches in 2 years is a pretty good indicator of how well the Cavs organization is run.

All we've ever done is wreck the trade value of our players, even when our focus was supposed to be raising their value to trade them.

So, whatever. If Kevin can't be patient, help teach, and lead by example; he can make room for someone who will at least be motivated to play hard.

What's the alternative? Flush our young players for mediocre vets and see if we can sneak in to the 8th seed?

No thanks, I'd rather keep shoveling **** on our young mushrooms in the dark and hope something useful eventually grows out of it.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1378 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:44 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:he aint leaving there now the pick is going to be of little value for the Cavs in any trade after the Jrue trade unless they implode


Let's take some wild guesses ... 92% chance Giannis likes these moves and stays, 98% chance they don't implode, 90% chance they don't suffer major injuries that drop them in to the lottery.

Multiply that all together and subtract from 1.0 and I figure we have a 18.9% chance at a lottery pick that could end up a top-4 pick.

We've beaten worse odds than that before. :lol:

yeah the reality is the pick is meh and that is all


Reality in this case is yet to be determined. The more of these little side bets a team can collect, the more likely something will pay off.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1379 » by Stillwater » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Let's take some wild guesses ... 92% chance Giannis likes these moves and stays, 98% chance they don't implode, 90% chance they don't suffer major injuries that drop them in to the lottery.

Multiply that all together and subtract from 1.0 and I figure we have a 18.9% chance at a lottery pick that could end up a top-4 pick.

We've beaten worse odds than that before. :lol:

yeah the reality is the pick is meh and that is all


Reality in this case is yet to be determined. The more of these little side bets a team can collect, the more likely something will pay off.

they got a 2nd for agreeing to let Bucks lift restriction so the pick would transfer in 22 and have no chance of carrying over to 23 so they could move their 2024 pick .
The moves they made makes the Bucks a better roster in the East and probably makes them more of a contender. I mean maybe Giannis walks anyway but everything suggests the odds of that are slim
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1380 » by JonFromVA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:14 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:yeah the reality is the pick is meh and that is all


Reality in this case is yet to be determined. The more of these little side bets a team can collect, the more likely something will pay off.

they got a 2nd for agreeing to let Bucks lift restriction so the pick would transfer in 22 and have no chance of carrying over to 23 so they could move their 2024 pick .
The moves they made makes the Bucks a better roster in the East and probably makes them more of a contender. I mean maybe Giannis walks anyway but everything suggests the odds of that are slim


It's become very hard to pry an unprotected pick from a team because things go wrong more often than GM's and their owners would care to admit. As my probability example was attempting to demonstrate, it's not just whether Giannis says yes, it's all the other things that can happen to derail what appears to be a great plan.

And yes, the odds still say we end up with the something in the 25 to 30 range, but now we've got another 2nd round pick to play with, and a clear and free number one.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't help a team in our division? I'm personally pretty sympathetic with their situation, and hope they retain him rather than lose him to the next "super team".

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