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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1421 » by JonFromVA » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:54 pm

jbk1234 wrote:If the Cavs are going to stick with Sexton, then they should probably explore a trade around Ball for Garland later in the season.


Given his agent is Rich Paul, there may be an opportunity there, but Rich is Darius's agent as well so both had better be happy with the swap. Otherwise, my take would be why wouldn't New Orleans just let it play out and match what offer Ball gets? But Rich might very well take the qualifying offer next year. Still, New Orleans has Ball under control for at least the next 2 seasons.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1422 » by jbk1234 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:05 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If the Cavs are going to stick with Sexton, then they should probably explore a trade around Ball for Garland later in the season.


Given his agent is Rich Paul, there may be an opportunity there, but Rich is Darius's agent as well so both had better be happy with the swap. Otherwise, my take would be why wouldn't New Orleans just let it play out and match what offer Ball gets? But Rich might very well take the qualifying offer next year. Still, New Orleans has Ball under control for at least the next 2 seasons.


The Pelicans are looking at a long term cap issue and Griffin is smart enough to know that. Ingraham got a max deal. Zion is getting a max deal. Adams just got extended. I suspect that the extra years on Garland's deal would have some real appeal. I'd probably want one of the 150 first round picks the Pels have added to the swap.

Again, this is premature. You need to know what you have in Garland before you move him (if he's the one you're going to move). The longer the Cavs hold onto the Dame/McCollum backcourt dream, the more of an opportunity cost you pay in terms of evaluation.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1423 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:57 pm

Would Ball have any interest playing here though??? idk about that maybe but he seems content where he is
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1424 » by jbk1234 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:09 am

Stillwater wrote:Would Ball have any interest playing here though??? idk about that maybe but he seems content where he is
He'd have interest in getting paid. He's a RFA. But I'd absolutely want to audition him next to Sexton before I offered him any type of serious contact.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1425 » by Stillwater » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:04 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Would Ball have any interest playing here though??? idk about that maybe but he seems content where he is
He'd have interest in getting paid. He's a RFA. But I'd absolutely want to audition him next to Sexton before I offered him any type of serious contact.

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Do you think they would offer him enough that the Pels dont match? I mean I guess they might but I am not sold they would offer any more than somebody higher on his preferred landing list.
If Okoro and KPJ ball out this season I could see it more reasonably being attractive for several rfas
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1426 » by JonFromVA » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:06 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If the Cavs are going to stick with Sexton, then they should probably explore a trade around Ball for Garland later in the season.


Given his agent is Rich Paul, there may be an opportunity there, but Rich is Darius's agent as well so both had better be happy with the swap. Otherwise, my take would be why wouldn't New Orleans just let it play out and match what offer Ball gets? But Rich might very well take the qualifying offer next year. Still, New Orleans has Ball under control for at least the next 2 seasons.


The Pelicans are looking at a long term cap issue and Griffin is smart enough to know that. Ingraham got a max deal. Zion is getting a max deal. Adams just got extended. I suspect that the extra years on Garland's deal would have some real appeal. I'd probably want one of the 150 first round picks the Pels have added to the swap.

Again, this is premature. You need to know what you have in Garland before you move him (if he's the one you're going to move). The longer the Cavs hold onto the Dame/McCollum backcourt dream, the more of an opportunity cost you pay in terms of evaluation.


That all depends how Griff values Garland and whether he'd be willing to eventually pay him; otherwise he can get 2 more seasons out of Ball, see if he wants to pay him then, and if not go he can always go shopping for a PG on the cheap if he really decides that's where wants to go cheap.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1427 » by jbk1234 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:06 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Given his agent is Rich Paul, there may be an opportunity there, but Rich is Darius's agent as well so both had better be happy with the swap. Otherwise, my take would be why wouldn't New Orleans just let it play out and match what offer Ball gets? But Rich might very well take the qualifying offer next year. Still, New Orleans has Ball under control for at least the next 2 seasons.


The Pelicans are looking at a long term cap issue and Griffin is smart enough to know that. Ingraham got a max deal. Zion is getting a max deal. Adams just got extended. I suspect that the extra years on Garland's deal would have some real appeal. I'd probably want one of the 150 first round picks the Pels have added to the swap.

Again, this is premature. You need to know what you have in Garland before you move him (if he's the one you're going to move). The longer the Cavs hold onto the Dame/McCollum backcourt dream, the more of an opportunity cost you pay in terms of evaluation.


That all depends how Griff values Garland and whether he'd be willing to eventually pay him; otherwise he can get 2 more seasons out of Ball, see if he wants to pay him then, and if not go he can always go shopping for a PG on the cheap if he really decides that's where wants to go cheap.
He can't get two more seasons out of Ball on the cheap if Ball signs an offer sheet this summer.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1428 » by JonFromVA » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:43 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The Pelicans are looking at a long term cap issue and Griffin is smart enough to know that. Ingraham got a max deal. Zion is getting a max deal. Adams just got extended. I suspect that the extra years on Garland's deal would have some real appeal. I'd probably want one of the 150 first round picks the Pels have added to the swap.

Again, this is premature. You need to know what you have in Garland before you move him (if he's the one you're going to move). The longer the Cavs hold onto the Dame/McCollum backcourt dream, the more of an opportunity cost you pay in terms of evaluation.


That all depends how Griff values Garland and whether he'd be willing to eventually pay him; otherwise he can get 2 more seasons out of Ball, see if he wants to pay him then, and if not go he can always go shopping for a PG on the cheap if he really decides that's where wants to go cheap.
He can't get two more seasons out of Ball on the cheap if Ball signs an offer sheet this summer.


Right, only if he pulls a Rich Paul and plays the season on the QO ... but do you think someone is offering him a max deal this Summer? Do you think the Cavs would be willing to, to make sure we keep him?

IMO, the Pels are now stuck in that phase where they can't afford to waste seasons hoping a player develops. If they move on from Lonzo, they need someone ready to step in and help them win. If Lonzo wants out or too much money, they can potentially work-out a S&T for a TPE, and then work out a trade leveraging the TPE for a cheaper player ready to step-in.

That could be Garland, I suppose, if he shows us something ... but then why would we be trading him?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1429 » by jbk1234 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:08 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
That all depends how Griff values Garland and whether he'd be willing to eventually pay him; otherwise he can get 2 more seasons out of Ball, see if he wants to pay him then, and if not go he can always go shopping for a PG on the cheap if he really decides that's where wants to go cheap.
He can't get two more seasons out of Ball on the cheap if Ball signs an offer sheet this summer.


Right, only if he pulls a Rich Paul and plays the season on the QO ... but do you think someone is offering him a max deal this Summer? Do you think the Cavs would be willing to, to make sure we keep him?

IMO, the Pels are now stuck in that phase where they can't afford to waste seasons hoping a player develops. If they move on from Lonzo, they need someone ready to step in and help them win. If Lonzo wants out or too much money, they can potentially work-out a S&T for a TPE, and then work out a trade leveraging the TPE for a cheaper player ready to step-in.

That could be Garland, I suppose, if he shows us something ... but then why would we be trading him?
I don't think you need to offer Ball a max deal and Ball isn't TT. He has an injury history. If someone presents him with a four year deal with $60-70M in guaranteed money, he's not passing on it.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1430 » by Revenged25 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:40 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:He can't get two more seasons out of Ball on the cheap if Ball signs an offer sheet this summer.


Right, only if he pulls a Rich Paul and plays the season on the QO ... but do you think someone is offering him a max deal this Summer? Do you think the Cavs would be willing to, to make sure we keep him?

IMO, the Pels are now stuck in that phase where they can't afford to waste seasons hoping a player develops. If they move on from Lonzo, they need someone ready to step in and help them win. If Lonzo wants out or too much money, they can potentially work-out a S&T for a TPE, and then work out a trade leveraging the TPE for a cheaper player ready to step-in.

That could be Garland, I suppose, if he shows us something ... but then why would we be trading him?
I don't think you need to offer Ball a max deal and Ball isn't TT. He has an injury history. If someone presents him with a four year deal with $60-70M in guaranteed money, he's not passing on it.

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Considering Murray got 4/64 and Rubio got 3/51 I think a contract in that range is the perfect space for Ball as he's in a similar mold to those guys unless he can improve his shooting this year. I would wait till next off-season to try and acquire Ball. Give us a full year to see how all the young guards play in various combinations/roles. Is KPJ able to get it together and deserve a starting spot, does Sexton put it together to be seen as more than a perennial 6MOY contender, does Garland actually show any redeeming features beyond back-up PG, does Windler look like a JJ Reddick/Korver type player or just a bench shooter? Might end up Ball isn't needed with the new Zone scheme to hide some of their defensive liabilities, might be that no one ends up showing they deserve a starting guard spot so there will be a lot more moving pieces. Either way there hasn't been enough time to really see how everything works with anything resembling consistency with the coaching staff.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1431 » by JonFromVA » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:16 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:He can't get two more seasons out of Ball on the cheap if Ball signs an offer sheet this summer.


Right, only if he pulls a Rich Paul and plays the season on the QO ... but do you think someone is offering him a max deal this Summer? Do you think the Cavs would be willing to, to make sure we keep him?

IMO, the Pels are now stuck in that phase where they can't afford to waste seasons hoping a player develops. If they move on from Lonzo, they need someone ready to step in and help them win. If Lonzo wants out or too much money, they can potentially work-out a S&T for a TPE, and then work out a trade leveraging the TPE for a cheaper player ready to step-in.

That could be Garland, I suppose, if he shows us something ... but then why would we be trading him?
I don't think you need to offer Ball a max deal and Ball isn't TT. He has an injury history. If someone presents him with a four year deal with $60-70M in guaranteed money, he's not passing on it.


His agent is Rich Paul, but hey ... If that's the price and New Orleans isn't looking for something different from their PG, I can't imagine why they wouldn't lock him up.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1432 » by Revenged25 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:48 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Right, only if he pulls a Rich Paul and plays the season on the QO ... but do you think someone is offering him a max deal this Summer? Do you think the Cavs would be willing to, to make sure we keep him?

IMO, the Pels are now stuck in that phase where they can't afford to waste seasons hoping a player develops. If they move on from Lonzo, they need someone ready to step in and help them win. If Lonzo wants out or too much money, they can potentially work-out a S&T for a TPE, and then work out a trade leveraging the TPE for a cheaper player ready to step-in.

That could be Garland, I suppose, if he shows us something ... but then why would we be trading him?
I don't think you need to offer Ball a max deal and Ball isn't TT. He has an injury history. If someone presents him with a four year deal with $60-70M in guaranteed money, he's not passing on it.


His agent is Rich Paul, but hey ... If that's the price and New Orleans isn't looking for something different from their PG, I can't imagine why they wouldn't lock him up.


They don't want to deal with Paul more than they have to, let alone the headache that is Lavar?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1433 » by JonFromVA » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:13 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I don't think you need to offer Ball a max deal and Ball isn't TT. He has an injury history. If someone presents him with a four year deal with $60-70M in guaranteed money, he's not passing on it.


His agent is Rich Paul, but hey ... If that's the price and New Orleans isn't looking for something different from their PG, I can't imagine why they wouldn't lock him up.


They don't want to deal with Paul more than they have to, let alone the headache that is Lavar?


So why would they trade for another Rich Paul client - let alone one that's unproven at this point?

And if Lavar and Rich are such as hassle to deal with, why would we want to?

It's not like Garland was Griff's pick before he left ... I'm just not getting what's in it for the Pelicans and/or what their plans are for Bledsoe. It looks like the Pels started Bledsoe and Ball together in pre-season.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1434 » by Revenged25 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
His agent is Rich Paul, but hey ... If that's the price and New Orleans isn't looking for something different from their PG, I can't imagine why they wouldn't lock him up.


They don't want to deal with Paul more than they have to, let alone the headache that is Lavar?


So why would they trade for another Rich Paul client - let alone one that's unproven at this point?

And if Lavar and Rich are such as hassle to deal with, why would we want to?

It's not like Garland was Griff's pick before he left ... I'm just not getting what's in it for the Pelicans and/or what their plans are for Bledsoe. It looks like the Pels started Bledsoe and Ball together in pre-season.


I'm just spitballing why they wouldn't want to lock him up long term. Also I would definitely prefer not having to deal with the trouble that Lavar especially would bring, but fit wise it might be worth it for the team to improve.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1435 » by Stillwater » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:35 pm

lol if Ball gets moved it will not only be due to his desire to get paid but because they just drafted one of the best pg's in the draft in Kira Lewis who by all accounts is better than Garland already.
I dont think there is any chance Griff wants Garland given that but there isnt much reason to think CLE cound'nt entice Ball anyway if Garland is at that point considered a bust etc.
I really think DG needs to succeeed a lot this season to have any trade value and if that happens they are unlikely to move him imo
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1436 » by jbk1234 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:10 am

Stillwater wrote:lol if Ball gets moved it will not only be due to his desire to get paid but because they just drafted one of the best pg's in the draft in Kira Lewis who by all accounts is better than Garland already.
I dont think there is any chance Griff wants Garland given that but there isnt much reason to think CLE cound'nt entice Ball anyway if Garland is at that point considered a bust etc.
I really think DG needs to succeeed a lot this season to have any trade value and if that happens they are unlikely to move him imo
Stillwater, you seriously see like 20 all stars out of every draft. I admire your optimism man, but that's not how it plays out.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1437 » by Stillwater » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:35 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:lol if Ball gets moved it will not only be due to his desire to get paid but because they just drafted one of the best pg's in the draft in Kira Lewis who by all accounts is better than Garland already.
I dont think there is any chance Griff wants Garland given that but there isnt much reason to think CLE cound'nt entice Ball anyway if Garland is at that point considered a bust etc.
I really think DG needs to succeeed a lot this season to have any trade value and if that happens they are unlikely to move him imo
Stillwater, you seriously see like 20 all stars out of every draft. I admire your optimism man, but that's not how it plays out.

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yeah i had him ranked
as the 8th best prospect overall in my final big board and only 2nd to Ball at the pg position and if lamelo continues to be this bad id put lewis ahead of him.
Hayes has more potential i guess but Lewis has the best skills already transferable etc.
Garland looked pretty solid tonight imo btw
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1438 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:52 am

What about trading Drummond for Westbrook?

Westbrook and Love could be a good tandem.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1439 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 3:43 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:What about trading Drummond for Westbrook?

Westbrook and Love could be a good tandem.
Lol, no. The Cavs are set at guard and there's no way we're eating all that salary for free.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1440 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jan 2, 2021 4:27 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:What about trading Drummond for Westbrook?

Westbrook and Love could be a good tandem.
Lol, no. The Cavs are set at guard and there's no way we're eating all that salary for free.


Heh, the assumption has been the opposite that we'd be dealing Kevin to join Russ somewhere, I'm just not sure what would work out salary-wise with the Wizards unless they do entertain trading Beal and then perhaps Love could come back to them in a 3-way.

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