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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1561 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 9:26 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do a Wiseman + Oubre (Expiring) for Andre Drummond?


No. We have Allen who is currently better than Wiseman and who we have to re-sign this offseason. Swapping Wiggins for Drummond makes that harder, not easier for us. Gilbert might go into the luxury tax for the Minny pick though.

Otherwise, Prince for Oubre is option.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1562 » by Revenged25 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 9:37 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do a Wiseman + Oubre (Expiring) for Andre Drummond?


No. We have Allen who is currently better than Wiseman and who we have to re-sign this offseason. Swapping Wiggins for Drummond makes that harder, not easier for us. Gilbert might go into the luxury tax for the Minny pick though.

Otherwise, Prince for Oubre is option.


Did he edit the post before you replied to remove Wiggins from the equation?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1563 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 9:41 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:Would you guys do a Wiseman + Oubre (Expiring) for Andre Drummond?


No. We have Allen who is currently better than Wiseman and who we have to re-sign this offseason. Swapping Wiggins for Drummond makes that harder, not easier for us. Gilbert might go into the luxury tax for the Minny pick though.

Otherwise, Prince for Oubre is option.


Did he edit the post before you replied to remove Wiggins from the equation?


Yeah, it was Wiggins initially, but I'd surely do the Oubre and Wiseman one.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1564 » by AdonalFoyle4Prez » Tue Mar 9, 2021 9:51 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
No. We have Allen who is currently better than Wiseman and who we have to re-sign this offseason. Swapping Wiggins for Drummond makes that harder, not easier for us. Gilbert might go into the luxury tax for the Minny pick though.

Otherwise, Prince for Oubre is option.


Did he edit the post before you replied to remove Wiggins from the equation?


Yeah, it was Wiggins initially, but I'd surely do the Oubre and Wiseman one.


Never once included Wiggins, as he's a negative value in the league.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1565 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 9:55 pm

AdonalFoyle4Prez wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Did he edit the post before you replied to remove Wiggins from the equation?


Yeah, it was Wiggins initially, but I'd surely do the Oubre and Wiseman one.


Never once included Wiggins, as he's a negative value in the league.


Then yes, I'd trade Drummond for Oubre and Wiseman. But, I'd be pretty surprised if GS offered that.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1566 » by Harper4Ferry? » Tue Mar 9, 2021 10:23 pm

Oubre and Wiseman for Drummond is literally a joke trade. We won't get anything for Drummond, let alone the #2 overall pick in a draft.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1567 » by Harper4Ferry? » Tue Mar 9, 2021 10:27 pm

Hell I love Allen a lot, but I'd trade him straight up for Wiseman in a half second.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1568 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 10:32 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Hell I love Allen a lot, but I'd trade him straight up for Wiseman in a half second.


I wouldn't and it wouldn't be a close call. Big men, particularly centers, have a higher bust potential than any other position and they can take a long time to develop. I'm not seeing anything out of Wiseman that gives me confidence he's going to be a top 3 center. His current trend line looks a lot closer to Miles Turner and he may not get there until after his rookie contract is over.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1569 » by Stillwater » Tue Mar 9, 2021 11:14 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:Hell I love Allen a lot, but I'd trade him straight up for Wiseman in a half second.


I wouldn't and it wouldn't be a close call. Big men, particularly centers, have a higher bust potential than any other position and they can take a long time to develop. I'm not seeing anything out of Wiseman that gives me confidence he's going to be a top 3 center. His current trend line looks a lot closer to Miles Turner and he may not get there until after his rookie contract is over.

The only thing that might make Wiseman more valuable than JFro is if he starts knocking down 24'ers at a decent clip in the second half of the season or actually doesnt look lost on defense outside the rim but that isnt likely unless the Dubs decide to tank due to another Steph injury. Hell even then I am not sold I would trade JFro for him given he was starting to show he has potential as a stretch big if they want him to be that long term himself.
Allen is already what I think most would hope Wiseman becomes only main difference is Wiseman has a lot more skill with the ball and can attack the paint like a sf with a high level first step and elite finishing potential so his upside seems to be a tad better even though odds of getting to it might be less than 50%.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1570 » by jbk1234 » Tue Mar 9, 2021 11:21 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:Hell I love Allen a lot, but I'd trade him straight up for Wiseman in a half second.


I wouldn't and it wouldn't be a close call. Big men, particularly centers, have a higher bust potential than any other position and they can take a long time to develop. I'm not seeing anything out of Wiseman that gives me confidence he's going to be a top 3 center. His current trend line looks a lot closer to Miles Turner and he may not get there until after his rookie contract is over.

The only thing that might make Wiseman more valuable than JFro is if he starts knocking down 24'ers at a decent clip in the second half of the season or actually doesnt look lost on defense outside the rim but that isnt likely unless the Dubs decide to tank due to another Steph injury. Hell even then I am not sold I would trade JFro for him given he was starting to show he has potential as a stretch big if they want him to be that long term himself.
Allen is already what I think most would hope Wiseman becomes only main difference is Wiseman has a lot more skill with the ball and can attack the paint like a sf with a high level first step and elite finishing potential so his upside seems to be a tad better even though odds of getting to it might be less than 50%.


There's also the issue that if both of your bigs are that far away from the basket on offense, you're not getting any offensive rebounds. You're basically a one-and-done team if you're rolling with a stretch five and a stretch four. It's a lot easier to play zone defense if the opposing team doesn't have a big man in the paint. We successfully defended Turner with Wade last game and the Pacers offense isn't really set up to run through Turner. There are trade offs.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1571 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:04 pm

I'm surprised that you guys wouldn't make an Allen for Wiseman trade. We have no idea what Allen is going to make for the next three years, but at the minimum Wiseman is going to make between 1/2 to almost 1/3 as much salary. Wiseman is 3 years younger and was a super highly rated prospect. I feel like he fits the timeline of our team much better. His 3 numbers are promising, but he's only attempting 1 per game. I would bet on him being at least as good as Allen within a year or two.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1572 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:17 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I'm surprised that you guys wouldn't make an Allen for Wiseman trade. We have no idea what Allen is going to make for the next three years, but at the minimum Wiseman is going to make between 1/2 to almost 1/3 as much salary. Wiseman is 3 years younger and was a super highly rated prospect. I feel like he fits the timeline of our team much better. His 3 numbers are promising, but he's only attempting 1 per game. I would bet on him being at least as good as Allen within a year or two.

He is a rim protector for sure and his offensive skill is better than most bigs in a vacuum but he really cant utilize it yet on the pro level consistently and he may never be given the full green light to do so without improving his decision making a lot where a lot of what you are hoping will materialize wont happen anyway.
He could become another Embiid level player once stronger I guess so there is that but if anything he is the opposite of JFro in the way Wiseman has always been criticized for trying to do to much and without much success pre NBA sans a high block rate against small offenses . Imo ompared to Allen who lets the game come to him and is the ultimate reliable complimentary big there really is more to like about JFro taking a reasonable deal than waiting for Wiseman to discover what he can and cannot do in the NBA for 3 years.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1573 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:39 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I'm surprised that you guys wouldn't make an Allen for Wiseman trade. We have no idea what Allen is going to make for the next three years, but at the minimum Wiseman is going to make between 1/2 to almost 1/3 as much salary. Wiseman is 3 years younger and was a super highly rated prospect. I feel like he fits the timeline of our team much better. His 3 numbers are promising, but he's only attempting 1 per game. I would bet on him being at least as good as Allen within a year or two.


Why do you want to wait to find out if Wiseman might end up being as valuable as Allen is now?

In a year or two, Allen will be better than he is now.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1574 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:56 pm

I'll add that while Wiseman's per36 production of 20 & 10 is impressive, his steals/blocks/assists/turnovers are pretty close to what Allen did as as rookie.

But Wiseman has a big advantage playing with the Warriors rather than the typical dumpster fire lottery team, and his last game .vs. Phoenix when he shot 5 for 14 is troubling.

It's just really nice have a big man that's a legit defender in space, a rim protector, and that gets his points in the flow of the offense.

It'd be very hard to give that up for potential. You'd need to be convinced Wiseman was on an Antony Davis or Joel Embiid path rather than the numerous hyped up big man who ended up far less.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1575 » by Stillwater » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:02 pm

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7414507
This simple one is realistic maybe Dallas would consider it given Prince would help them quite a bit
Cavs move Prince and Javale to a fringe contender for an expiring and a back up point guard with starter potential.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1576 » by jbk1234 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:39 pm

The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1577 » by Stillwater » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.

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I dont agree at all. Prince is not a negative contract like you suppose it is imo he has been far better since coming here than you projected and his value is better than that take as well. He might be overpaid as a backup but they could easily utilize him in their sl as constructed. They might not give up Terry that easily but he isnt even playing so they clearly dont care about him developing and for that I say they picked him as an asset to flip later and thats it anyway
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1578 » by jbk1234 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:51 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I dont agree at all. Prince is not a negative contract like you suppose it is imo he has been far better since coming here than you projected and his value is better than that take as well. He might be overpaid as a backup but they could easily utilize him in their sl as constructed. They might not give up Terry that easily but he isnt even playing so they clearly dont care about him developing and for that I say they picked him as an asset to flip later and thats it anyway
Go ahead and check Prince's value on the T&T board. Maybe you get GS fans to swap Oubre for him, because they can't stand the guy, but I doubt their front office would.

Being overpaid for your role is the very definition of having negative trade value. Teams don't give away cap space because it has value.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1579 » by Stillwater » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:32 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I dont agree at all. Prince is not a negative contract like you suppose it is imo he has been far better since coming here than you projected and his value is better than that take as well. He might be overpaid as a backup but they could easily utilize him in their sl as constructed. They might not give up Terry that easily but he isnt even playing so they clearly dont care about him developing and for that I say they picked him as an asset to flip later and thats it anyway
Go ahead and check Prince's value on the T&T board. Maybe you get GS fans to swap Oubre for him, because they can't stand the guy, but I doubt their front office would.

Being overpaid for your role is the very definition of having negative trade value. Teams don't give away cap space because it has value.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

thats true but idc what the opinions of anyone on the internet are about any players contract situation given it matters a lot who is trading for said player and how much use he would have. Dallas could justify playing him at the 3 in the starting line up 25 or more minutes a game and if his production matches what it has here hes not overpaid in that situation. Its not really like we ate his deal to get Allen either even though we had to take him to make the deal work or should I say they had to give him up and get him off their books because of the salary coming in etc. So much of the dealings in the league have a lot more to do with just simple math or on court production on a team moving a player compared to what they are capable of in higher usage.
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1580 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:59 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I dont agree at all. Prince is not a negative contract like you suppose it is imo he has been far better since coming here than you projected and his value is better than that take as well. He might be overpaid as a backup but they could easily utilize him in their sl as constructed. They might not give up Terry that easily but he isnt even playing so they clearly dont care about him developing and for that I say they picked him as an asset to flip later and thats it anyway
Go ahead and check Prince's value on the T&T board. Maybe you get GS fans to swap Oubre for him, because they can't stand the guy, but I doubt their front office would.

Being overpaid for your role is the very definition of having negative trade value. Teams don't give away cap space because it has value.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

thats true but idc what the opinions of anyone on the internet are about any players contract situation given it matters a lot who is trading for said player and how much use he would have. Dallas could justify playing him at the 3 in the starting line up 25 or more minutes a game and if his production matches what it has here hes not overpaid in that situation. Its not really like we ate his deal to get Allen either even though we had to take him to make the deal work or should I say they had to give him up and get him off their books because of the salary coming in etc. So much of the dealings in the league have a lot more to do with just simple math or on court production on a team moving a player compared to what they are capable of in higher usage.
He didn't look good in higher usage on that West coast trip after Nance got hurt, then he got hurt, and hasn't played since. That doesn't exactly scream high trade value.

I don't particularly mind him sticking around. The Cavs need every player on the roster who can hit three, even if they are streaky shooters.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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