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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1581 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:35 pm

jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.


It depends how desperate they are to add veteran depth at those positions. Some of the recent trade rumors suggest Prince may not be a negative contract, but yeah, teams would need to forget about him as a PF.

Basically is the Cuban + Doncic connection approaching Gilbert + James level of desperation and do they have a better move available ?

I kind of wonder what we'll do for a backup C if we trade McGee to a contender desperate for a C. I suppose we can sign Bolden again.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1582 » by jbk1234 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:14 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.


It depends how desperate they are to add veteran depth at those positions. Some of the recent trade rumors suggest Prince may not be a negative contract, but yeah, teams would need to forget about him as a PF.

Basically is the Cuban + Doncic connection approaching Gilbert + James level of desperation and do they have a better move available ?

I kind of wonder what we'll do for a backup C if we trade McGee to a contender desperate for a C. I suppose we can sign Bolden again.
I'm seeing signs that McGee is trying to play himself off the team so I think we could find ourselves in that scenario either way.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1583 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:52 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Mavs aren't going to give away a prospect and eat Prince's salary for next year just as a favor.

You're looking at Prince for Bledsoe (very risky) or Rubio. Maybe McGee for Rivers.


It depends how desperate they are to add veteran depth at those positions. Some of the recent trade rumors suggest Prince may not be a negative contract, but yeah, teams would need to forget about him as a PF.

Basically is the Cuban + Doncic connection approaching Gilbert + James level of desperation and do they have a better move available ?

I kind of wonder what we'll do for a backup C if we trade McGee to a contender desperate for a C. I suppose we can sign Bolden again.
I'm seeing signs that McGee is trying to play himself off the team so I think we could find ourselves in that scenario either way.


Fair chance of it, but we may be being fooled of what to expect from him given how well he played early in the year and some players will try to step up beyond their capacity when the team is struggling.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1584 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:51 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Go ahead and check Prince's value on the T&T board. Maybe you get GS fans to swap Oubre for him, because they can't stand the guy, but I doubt their front office would.

Being overpaid for your role is the very definition of having negative trade value. Teams don't give away cap space because it has value.

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thats true but idc what the opinions of anyone on the internet are about any players contract situation given it matters a lot who is trading for said player and how much use he would have. Dallas could justify playing him at the 3 in the starting line up 25 or more minutes a game and if his production matches what it has here hes not overpaid in that situation. Its not really like we ate his deal to get Allen either even though we had to take him to make the deal work or should I say they had to give him up and get him off their books because of the salary coming in etc. So much of the dealings in the league have a lot more to do with just simple math or on court production on a team moving a player compared to what they are capable of in higher usage.
He didn't look good in higher usage on that West coast trip after Nance got hurt, then he got hurt, and hasn't played since. That doesn't exactly scream high trade value.

I don't particularly mind him sticking around. The Cavs need every player on the roster who can hit three, even if they are streaky shooters.

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high trade value? lol nope but fair trade value and not negative value yes
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1585 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:04 pm

Amico is making noise that the Cavs could move Windler at the deadline, and if they do, after how they've used him in what's essentially his rookie season, I'm going to flip out.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1586 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Amico is making noise that the Cavs could move Windler at the deadline, and if they do, after how they've used him in what's essentially his rookie season, I'm going to flip out.

Yeah, i mean, what have we already learned about the kid?

Can he shoot? Seems plausible. Doesn't really have a ton of chances to.
Can he rebound? His college numbers suggested he was more than capable and 4 rebounds per game seems to suggest that. Especially without Dre vacuuming every defensive rebound.
Is he fragile? Sure, but also seems like these were some freak type things.
Can he at least play team defense? I don't think that he's horrible at it, honestly not much time to even practice and he's gotten to play something like 450 minutes in 2 years

Trading him would be super foolish, knowing that he's probably a better than expected version of the player you drafted. Even if him and Wade are kind of redundant, I can't see how you move off of either in today's NBA.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1587 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:57 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Amico is making noise that the Cavs could move Windler at the deadline, and if they do, after how they've used him in what's essentially his rookie season, I'm going to flip out.


I'm not sure Amico actually knows anything, but if the Cavs called me asking if I'd like to trade for Cedi; I'd certainly try to change the subject to Windler.

Run him off some pin downs and get him the ball ... how hard is that?

Is there anything Duncan Robinson can do that Windler can't?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1588 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:11 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Amico is making noise that the Cavs could move Windler at the deadline, and if they do, after how they've used him in what's essentially his rookie season, I'm going to flip out.


I'm not sure Amico actually knows anything, but if the Cavs called me asking if I'd like to trade for Cedi; I'd certainly try to change the subject to Windler.

Run him off some pin downs and get him the ball ... how hard is that?

Is there anything Duncan Robinson can do that Windler can't?


I'll say this and leave it alone, if you find yourself getting rid of promising players, in year three of a rebuild, because your organization can't run offenses as sophisticated as good high schools programs, it's time to start asking some hard questions.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1589 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:50 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Amico is making noise that the Cavs could move Windler at the deadline, and if they do, after how they've used him in what's essentially his rookie season, I'm going to flip out.


I'm not sure Amico actually knows anything, but if the Cavs called me asking if I'd like to trade for Cedi; I'd certainly try to change the subject to Windler.

Run him off some pin downs and get him the ball ... how hard is that?

Is there anything Duncan Robinson can do that Windler can't?


I'll say this and leave it alone, if you find yourself getting rid of promising players, in year three of a rebuild, because your organization can't run offenses as sophisticated as good high schools programs, it's time to start asking some hard questions.


There's a lot of reasons we are where we are and one of our problems is that we haven't been pro-active enough in addressing let alone predicting problems.

Maybe they want to tank the season as hard as you do, but it's still inexcusable to let obvious problems rot and fester for as long as they do.

Even if they're trying to actively tank, they should still have a plan to teach and improve. Maybe the coaching staff needs to communicate more? I'm just not sure what they've done beyond tinkering with a zone defense and increasing their 3pt attempts as their 3pt% plummets to the 29th in the league.

Here's an interesting mystery.

The team's 3pt% is currently 33.8%, yet we have 9 players on the roster all shooting above that.

It's Osman, Okoro, and Dotson primarily dragging down the team average.

And the way our rotations work, that means there's almost always a perimeter player the other team can cheat off on the floor at all times.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1590 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:58 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm not sure Amico actually knows anything, but if the Cavs called me asking if I'd like to trade for Cedi; I'd certainly try to change the subject to Windler.

Run him off some pin downs and get him the ball ... how hard is that?

Is there anything Duncan Robinson can do that Windler can't?


I'll say this and leave it alone, if you find yourself getting rid of promising players, in year three of a rebuild, because your organization can't run offenses as sophisticated as good high schools programs, it's time to start asking some hard questions.


There's a lot of reasons we are where we are and one of our problems is that we haven't been pro-active enough in addressing let alone predicting problems.

Maybe they want to tank the season as hard as you do, but it's still inexcusable to let obvious problems rot and fester for as long as they do.

Even if they're trying to actively tank, they should still have a plan to teach and improve. Maybe the coaching staff needs to communicate more? I'm just not sure what they've done beyond tinkering with a zone defense and increasing their 3pt attempts as their 3pt% plummets to the 29th in the league.

Here's an interesting mystery.

The team's 3pt% is currently 33.8%, yet we have 9 players on the roster all shooting above that.

It's Osman, Okoro, and Dotson primarily dragging down the team average.

And the way our rotations work, that means there's almost always a perimeter player the other team can cheat off on the floor at all times.


Fedor, like you, is blaming a lack of practice.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

But this is all happening coming out of the all star break and the stuff we're talking about isn't advanced calculus. Not having an NBA caliber backup PG stings. The injuries are taking their toll for sure. But I'm increasingly concerned there's a more fundamental problem.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1591 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:08 pm

I predict we're going to make some wild move at the deadline that nobody saw coming.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1592 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I'll say this and leave it alone, if you find yourself getting rid of promising players, in year three of a rebuild, because your organization can't run offenses as sophisticated as good high schools programs, it's time to start asking some hard questions.


There's a lot of reasons we are where we are and one of our problems is that we haven't been pro-active enough in addressing let alone predicting problems.

Maybe they want to tank the season as hard as you do, but it's still inexcusable to let obvious problems rot and fester for as long as they do.

Even if they're trying to actively tank, they should still have a plan to teach and improve. Maybe the coaching staff needs to communicate more? I'm just not sure what they've done beyond tinkering with a zone defense and increasing their 3pt attempts as their 3pt% plummets to the 29th in the league.

Here's an interesting mystery.

The team's 3pt% is currently 33.8%, yet we have 9 players on the roster all shooting above that.

It's Osman, Okoro, and Dotson primarily dragging down the team average.

And the way our rotations work, that means there's almost always a perimeter player the other team can cheat off on the floor at all times.


Fedor, like you, is blaming a lack of practice.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

But this is all happening coming out of the all star break and the stuff we're talking about isn't advanced calculus. Not having an NBA caliber backup PG stings. The injuries are taking their toll for sure. But I'm increasingly concerned there's a more fundamental problem.


Yep, I agree they need to treat games like practice, but maybe the bigger problem is they don't know how to teach in-game with anything beyond broad strokes and NBA'ism's ("shoot more", "be more aggressive", etc).

I mean it's not hard to point fingers.

We have an inexperienced GM and an inexperienced head coach, and that's all on Dan. The pandemic? Not so much, but true brilliance isn't just repeating the things you've learned, it's an ability to adapt quickly to new circumstances and find solutions to problems.

Which isn't to say the problems JBB is being asked to solve are easy; but there should be a plan, he should be communicating the plan, and we should be able to see evidence of it being carried out and moving through phases.

For example, why hasn't Allen scored more than 10pts for 3 straight games? Why can't we get him the ball?

Is it possible opponents have scouted out the one or two plays we run for him?

Maybe it's time to add a 3rd ...
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1593 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:31 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
There's a lot of reasons we are where we are and one of our problems is that we haven't been pro-active enough in addressing let alone predicting problems.

Maybe they want to tank the season as hard as you do, but it's still inexcusable to let obvious problems rot and fester for as long as they do.

Even if they're trying to actively tank, they should still have a plan to teach and improve. Maybe the coaching staff needs to communicate more? I'm just not sure what they've done beyond tinkering with a zone defense and increasing their 3pt attempts as their 3pt% plummets to the 29th in the league.

Here's an interesting mystery.

The team's 3pt% is currently 33.8%, yet we have 9 players on the roster all shooting above that.

It's Osman, Okoro, and Dotson primarily dragging down the team average.

And the way our rotations work, that means there's almost always a perimeter player the other team can cheat off on the floor at all times.


Fedor, like you, is blaming a lack of practice.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

But this is all happening coming out of the all star break and the stuff we're talking about isn't advanced calculus. Not having an NBA caliber backup PG stings. The injuries are taking their toll for sure. But I'm increasingly concerned there's a more fundamental problem.


Yep, I agree they need to treat games like practice, but maybe the bigger problem is they don't know how to teach in-game with anything beyond broad strokes and NBA'ism's ("shoot more", "be more aggressive", etc).

I mean it's not hard to point fingers.

We have an inexperienced GM and an inexperienced head coach, and that's all on Dan. The pandemic? Not so much, but true brilliance isn't just repeating the things you've learned, it's an ability to adapt quickly to new circumstances and find solutions to problems.

Which isn't to say the problems JBB is being asked to solve are easy; but there should be a plan, he should be communicating the plan, and we should be able to see evidence of it being carried out and moving through phases.

For example, why hasn't Allen scored more than 10pts for 3 straight games? Why can't we get him the ball?

Is it possible opponents have scouted out the one or two plays we run for him?

Maybe it's time to add a 3rd ...


Or just start Wade because he's getting dog piled inside every game.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1594 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:37 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I predict we're going to make some wild move at the deadline that nobody saw coming.

actually if that happens you will have seen it coming if you can tell us what you think will happen lol...
I dont think they are going to do sht that moves the needle this season. Maybe they can scrape together enough outgoing value to pick up a meh 2nd or 2.
Unless of course they ship one of the so called untouchables out
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1595 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:42 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I predict we're going to make some wild move at the deadline that nobody saw coming.


The only one I could see, that would justify putting Windler on the table, is if the Pelicans owner really has not intention of paying both Ball and Hart this offseason and they're going to move Ball. Griffin really screwed up the books by taking back Bledsoe instead of HIll and extending Adams. It's also a good example as to why just *adding vets* and extending guys on *reasonable* deals isn't always a good idea.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1596 » by JonFromVA » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Fedor, like you, is blaming a lack of practice.

Read on Twitter
?s=20

But this is all happening coming out of the all star break and the stuff we're talking about isn't advanced calculus. Not having an NBA caliber backup PG stings. The injuries are taking their toll for sure. But I'm increasingly concerned there's a more fundamental problem.


Yep, I agree they need to treat games like practice, but maybe the bigger problem is they don't know how to teach in-game with anything beyond broad strokes and NBA'ism's ("shoot more", "be more aggressive", etc).

I mean it's not hard to point fingers.

We have an inexperienced GM and an inexperienced head coach, and that's all on Dan. The pandemic? Not so much, but true brilliance isn't just repeating the things you've learned, it's an ability to adapt quickly to new circumstances and find solutions to problems.

Which isn't to say the problems JBB is being asked to solve are easy; but there should be a plan, he should be communicating the plan, and we should be able to see evidence of it being carried out and moving through phases.

For example, why hasn't Allen scored more than 10pts for 3 straight games? Why can't we get him the ball?

Is it possible opponents have scouted out the one or two plays we run for him?

Maybe it's time to add a 3rd ...


Or just start Wade because he's getting dog piled inside every game.


I imagine there's a way to work around just about anything (I've seen Ben Wallace make himself useful on offense), but they're making everything harder by not spacing the floor.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1597 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:51 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:I predict we're going to make some wild move at the deadline that nobody saw coming.


The only one I could see, that would justify putting Windler on the table, is if the Pelicans owner really has not intention of paying both Ball and Hart this offseason and they're going to move Ball. Griffin really screwed up the books by taking back Bledsoe instead of HIll and extending Adams. It's also a good example as to why just *adding vets* and extending guys on *reasonable* deals isn't always a good idea.

Windler would look so much better if this team had a useful system to put him in.
As is hes wasting his talent here and I would not be surprised given he was a win sooner less developmental type rotation player pick to fit in with a team that actually had the veteran services of KLove etc that they would move him for a higher upside but far less polished and developmental level player pretty quickly if a contender wanted him which they likely do.
But I wouldnt unless that developmental player had all star upside.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1598 » by jbk1234 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:57 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:I predict we're going to make some wild move at the deadline that nobody saw coming.


The only one I could see, that would justify putting Windler on the table, is if the Pelicans owner really has not intention of paying both Ball and Hart this offseason and they're going to move Ball. Griffin really screwed up the books by taking back Bledsoe instead of HIll and extending Adams. It's also a good example as to why just *adding vets* and extending guys on *reasonable* deals isn't always a good idea.

Windler would look so much better if this team had a useful system to put him in.
As is hes wasting his talent here and I would not be surprised given he was a win sooner less developmental type rotation player pick to fit in with a team that actually had the veteran services of KLove etc that they would move him for a higher upside but far less polished and developmental level player pretty quickly if a contender wanted him which they likely do.
But I wouldnt unless that developmental player had all star upside.


The very last thing the Cavs need to do is trade their good, or even decent prospects, for long shot projects. You can get most of those guys for a decent second round pick in the last year of their rookie contract when they're still *developing.* We need more shooters not less. Our spacing is bad enough as is.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1599 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:21 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The only one I could see, that would justify putting Windler on the table, is if the Pelicans owner really has not intention of paying both Ball and Hart this offseason and they're going to move Ball. Griffin really screwed up the books by taking back Bledsoe instead of HIll and extending Adams. It's also a good example as to why just *adding vets* and extending guys on *reasonable* deals isn't always a good idea.

Windler would look so much better if this team had a useful system to put him in.
As is hes wasting his talent here and I would not be surprised given he was a win sooner less developmental type rotation player pick to fit in with a team that actually had the veteran services of KLove etc that they would move him for a higher upside but far less polished and developmental level player pretty quickly if a contender wanted him which they likely do.
But I wouldnt unless that developmental player had all star upside.


The very last thing the Cavs need to do is trade their good, or even decent prospects, for long shot projects. You can get most of those guys for a decent second round pick in the last year of their rookie contract when they're still *developing.* We need more shooters not less. Our spacing is bad enough as is.

might as well trade DG and Okoro for some win now players then huh lol you must be kidding right? I dont want to trade WIndler either but I would if it meant a higher upside player on a longer timeline that matches this orgs long term developmental plan which has the Cavs contending sometime in 2026 at which time Windler will have bailed for a good team anyway
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1600 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:04 pm

And for whatever reason .vs. the Celtics we were able to execute some off the ball actions. It seemed to happen when we were running side P&R rather than running P&R from the top of the key. Hopefully it's something they will do more of.

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