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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1601 » by jbk1234 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:32 am

Seems like Lonzo as an option is no longer viable. There's now rumors that the Knicks are going to offer him a stupid contract this summer and his dad is saying he wants out of N.O. Plus, it seems his dad thinks he should be playing a more central role in the offense, which may, or may not work next to Sexton depending on how strongly Zo feels about what his role should be.

This might just be his team trying to get him to NY, but it's just too much baggage to offer any real value for him at this point.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1602 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:17 am

were we ever really going to offer NOP anything theyd want for Ball anyway though? I am not sold the interest is real. Mostly because of the Klutch sideshow but of course DG is also using them smh so maybe there is something too it
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1603 » by jbk1234 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:26 am

Stillwater wrote:were we ever really going to offer NOP anything theyd want for Ball anyway though? I am not sold the interest is real. Mostly because of the Klutch sideshow but of course DG is also using them smh so maybe there is something too it
I think earlier in the season the Pels didn't want to pay Lonzo, then he carved out a role that was quite productive and they were more open to it. I think a Cedi/Windler package could've been in the cards, Griffin drafted Cedi, but after Lavar's interview, I think I'd just bail.

If Zo hates N.O. and wants to go to a big market, then the NY media and Lavar can have fun with that. Maybe in a year or two, when it turns out that Zo is a better high end role player than a superstar, they Knicks will attach picks to get off the contract they're going to hand him.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1604 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:14 pm

I didn't mind the idea of adding him for fit because he plays defense and rebounds at a better rate than the current guard core, but the father the sideshow and when I saw he was signed with Klutch that was enough to kill any interest I had as a fan because I wouldn't believe he would want to stay in a small market. I also think we could see DG and Klutch hold this org over a barrel after staying and ultimately leave in fa or demand a trade if the overpriced option isn't used on him.
That is another reason im interested in moving him sans becoming far better than currently. He looked good against boston as a scorer maybe theyd take him. But fans and this org will not be ready for that risk reward type move probably.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1605 » by Revenged25 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:00 pm

I honestly think that even more than getting a young talented guy, getting an extremely talented older player like CP3 would even be better for the team. Like CP3 might not be playing like he was in his prime but the dude has been a leader/mentor to the young guards on both OKC and PHO and their entire team played better because of it. Getting someone that can still perform AND be a mentor would be huge. Like Delly can be a mentor but he can't perform. Granted it might just be a CP3 thing that we can't even considering finding another option, but something to think on. At this point I would even consider Kyle Lowry if he was available for a reasonable price.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1606 » by jbk1234 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:40 pm

Revenged25 wrote:I honestly think that even more than getting a young talented guy, getting an extremely talented older player like CP3 would even be better for the team. Like CP3 might not be playing like he was in his prime but the dude has been a leader/mentor to the young guards on both OKC and PHO and their entire team played better because of it. Getting someone that can still perform AND be a mentor would be huge. Like Delly can be a mentor but he can't perform. Granted it might just be a CP3 thing that we can't even considering finding another option, but something to think on. At this point I would even consider Kyle Lowry if he was available for a reasonable price.
We're not there yet. Booker was already off his rookie contract and had established himself as the cornerstone of that team. Both Ayton and Bridges were entering their third years. They had established their core, surrounded them with good role players, and used that vet slot to fill a big hole. But they waited until they were a bubble team first.

At a minimum, we need to walk away from the next draft with another core piece, if not a franchise cornerstone. We need to burn another year off of Love's contract and improve enough so that attaching one of our picks to him as an expiring contract isn't such a terrifying idea. If we can do all of that after next season we'll be much further along than the Suns were 4 years after drafting Booker.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1607 » by Revenged25 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:40 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I honestly think that even more than getting a young talented guy, getting an extremely talented older player like CP3 would even be better for the team. Like CP3 might not be playing like he was in his prime but the dude has been a leader/mentor to the young guards on both OKC and PHO and their entire team played better because of it. Getting someone that can still perform AND be a mentor would be huge. Like Delly can be a mentor but he can't perform. Granted it might just be a CP3 thing that we can't even considering finding another option, but something to think on. At this point I would even consider Kyle Lowry if he was available for a reasonable price.
We're not there yet. Booker was already off his rookie contract and had established himself as the cornerstone of that team. Both Ayton and Bridges were entering their third years. They had established their core, surrounded them with good role players, and used that vet slot to fill a big hole. But they waited until they were a bubble team first.

At a minimum, we need to walk away from the next draft with another core piece, if not a franchise cornerstone. We need to burn another year off of Love's contract and improve enough so that attaching one of our picks to him as an expiring contract isn't such a terrifying idea. If we can do all of that after next season we'll be much further along than the Suns were 4 years after drafting Booker.

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I'm not saying we don't need a true cornerstone player, we definitely do, but whether it's Sexton, Garland, or someone we draft this year, having veteran like CP3 that could actually help the guards on the roster develop is needed. I think that's even more so than getting someone like Lonzo Ball on the roster who also isn't a cornerstone player but wouldn't exactly help the development of Garland/Sexton it would just be covering up the weakness that whoever is on the floor with him has.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1608 » by jbk1234 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:50 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I honestly think that even more than getting a young talented guy, getting an extremely talented older player like CP3 would even be better for the team. Like CP3 might not be playing like he was in his prime but the dude has been a leader/mentor to the young guards on both OKC and PHO and their entire team played better because of it. Getting someone that can still perform AND be a mentor would be huge. Like Delly can be a mentor but he can't perform. Granted it might just be a CP3 thing that we can't even considering finding another option, but something to think on. At this point I would even consider Kyle Lowry if he was available for a reasonable price.
We're not there yet. Booker was already off his rookie contract and had established himself as the cornerstone of that team. Both Ayton and Bridges were entering their third years. They had established their core, surrounded them with good role players, and used that vet slot to fill a big hole. But they waited until they were a bubble team first.

At a minimum, we need to walk away from the next draft with another core piece, if not a franchise cornerstone. We need to burn another year off of Love's contract and improve enough so that attaching one of our picks to him as an expiring contract isn't such a terrifying idea. If we can do all of that after next season we'll be much further along than the Suns were 4 years after drafting Booker.

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I'm not saying we don't need a true cornerstone player, we definitely do, but whether it's Sexton, Garland, or someone we draft this year, having veteran like CP3 that could actually help the guards on the roster develop is needed. I think that's even more so than getting someone like Lonzo Ball on the roster who also isn't a cornerstone player but wouldn't exactly help the development of Garland/Sexton it would just be covering up the weakness that whoever is on the floor with him has.


I'm actually very pleased with how Garland has progressed in year two over year one, but the Suns didn't bring CP3 on to mentor some younger PG or show Booker the ropes in his 6th year in the NBA. The Suns brought CP3 on as an upgrade over Rubio because they believed, correctly as it turned out, that he was talented enough to get them into the playoffs and that the rest of the roster was far enough along that a guy like CP3 would be the difference.

Garland and Sexton scored 29 points last night, each, and Garland added 8 assists on top of it. I don't see how bringing in a guy like Lowry is going to help anything. I think the relative weaknesses of each player are relatively innate. You can see improvement at the margins, over time, but a player's limitations, or as you put it weaknesses, aren't always fixable. The Warriors hide Curry on defense for a reason. Harden is playing PG on the Nets instead of Kyrie for a reason. Not everyone wants to be lead, or sacrifice what they view as the strengths in their individual game for the good of the team.

But even if you can cross that threshold, there's only so much a player can do with respect to their limitations. Curry wasn't ever going to be able to defend an elite PG so that became Klay's assignments in those series. What you're call covering up weaknesses I'd call assembling a well a built roster.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1609 » by Revenged25 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:We're not there yet. Booker was already off his rookie contract and had established himself as the cornerstone of that team. Both Ayton and Bridges were entering their third years. They had established their core, surrounded them with good role players, and used that vet slot to fill a big hole. But they waited until they were a bubble team first.

At a minimum, we need to walk away from the next draft with another core piece, if not a franchise cornerstone. We need to burn another year off of Love's contract and improve enough so that attaching one of our picks to him as an expiring contract isn't such a terrifying idea. If we can do all of that after next season we'll be much further along than the Suns were 4 years after drafting Booker.

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I'm not saying we don't need a true cornerstone player, we definitely do, but whether it's Sexton, Garland, or someone we draft this year, having veteran like CP3 that could actually help the guards on the roster develop is needed. I think that's even more so than getting someone like Lonzo Ball on the roster who also isn't a cornerstone player but wouldn't exactly help the development of Garland/Sexton it would just be covering up the weakness that whoever is on the floor with him has.


I'm actually very pleased with how Garland has progressed in year two over year one, but the Suns didn't bring CP3 on to mentor some younger PG or show Booker the ropes in his 6th year in the NBA. The Suns brought CP3 on as an upgrade over Rubio because they believed, correctly as it turned out, that he was talented enough to get them into the playoffs and that the rest of the roster was far enough along that a guy like CP3 would be the difference.

Garland and Sexton scored 29 points last night, each, and Garland added 8 assists on top of it. I don't see how bringing in a guy like Lowry is going to help anything. I think the relative weaknesses of each player are relatively innate. You can see improvement at the margins, over time, but a player's limitations, or as you put it weaknesses, aren't always fixable. The Warriors hide Curry on defense for a reason. Harden is playing PG on the Nets instead of Kyrie for a reason. Not everyone wants to be lead, or sacrifice what they view as the strengths in their individual game for the good of the team.

But even if you can cross that threshold, there's only so much a player can do with respect to their limitations. Curry wasn't ever going to be able to defend an elite PG so that became Klay's assignments in those series. What you're call covering up weaknesses I'd call assembling a well a built roster.


Sorry, I don't think I explained it well. I think at this point that neither guard is playing well enough where we need to start focusing on covering up their weaknesses and instead still need to find a way to get them to play more consistently and well rounded. I think getting a veteran that would be able to come in and mentor them and actually show them through their play on the court would help them grow faster and make getting someone to cover their weakness, regardless of who it is, actually beneficial to the team long term.

Also that 29/8 is more of an outlier than his normal level of play.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1610 » by jbk1234 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:15 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I'm not saying we don't need a true cornerstone player, we definitely do, but whether it's Sexton, Garland, or someone we draft this year, having veteran like CP3 that could actually help the guards on the roster develop is needed. I think that's even more so than getting someone like Lonzo Ball on the roster who also isn't a cornerstone player but wouldn't exactly help the development of Garland/Sexton it would just be covering up the weakness that whoever is on the floor with him has.


I'm actually very pleased with how Garland has progressed in year two over year one, but the Suns didn't bring CP3 on to mentor some younger PG or show Booker the ropes in his 6th year in the NBA. The Suns brought CP3 on as an upgrade over Rubio because they believed, correctly as it turned out, that he was talented enough to get them into the playoffs and that the rest of the roster was far enough along that a guy like CP3 would be the difference.

Garland and Sexton scored 29 points last night, each, and Garland added 8 assists on top of it. I don't see how bringing in a guy like Lowry is going to help anything. I think the relative weaknesses of each player are relatively innate. You can see improvement at the margins, over time, but a player's limitations, or as you put it weaknesses, aren't always fixable. The Warriors hide Curry on defense for a reason. Harden is playing PG on the Nets instead of Kyrie for a reason. Not everyone wants to be lead, or sacrifice what they view as the strengths in their individual game for the good of the team.

But even if you can cross that threshold, there's only so much a player can do with respect to their limitations. Curry wasn't ever going to be able to defend an elite PG so that became Klay's assignments in those series. What you're call covering up weaknesses I'd call assembling a well a built roster.


Sorry, I don't think I explained it well. I think at this point that neither guard is playing well enough where we need to start focusing on covering up their weaknesses and instead still need to find a way to get them to play more consistently and well rounded. I think getting a veteran that would be able to come in and mentor them and actually show them through their play on the court would help them grow faster and make getting someone to cover their weakness, regardless of who it is, actually beneficial to the team long term.

Also that 29/8 is more of an outlier than his normal level of play.
He had a very good game against the Celtics as well. Could be a blip. Could be he's starting to put it together in the second half of his second year.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1611 » by Stillwater » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:20 pm

DG is putting it together now that he is trying to score more because that is his true game as a combo
He has to be a pg to be a starter long term and maybe he can be, but hes always been a combo imo
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1612 » by jbk1234 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:32 pm

Stillwater wrote:DG is putting it together now that he is trying to score more because that is his true game as a combo
He has to be a pg to be a starter long term and maybe he can be, but hes always been a combo imo
He's always been more of a true PG. He's scoring more now because opposing teams are dog piling Allen in the paint or going to zone. Sexton is a good but reluctant three point shooter, Nance is just okay, and Okoro is bad but recently improving.

The coaching staff has been on both guards to shoot more from 3 all season. Fifteen of his 29 came from 3 point shooting last night. But if our guards are reluctant to shoot from three, then our offense will continue to stall out because opposing teams are more than happy to have them drive into a crowded paint, especially when backed by a good rim protector like Poertl

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1613 » by Stillwater » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:34 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:DG is putting it together now that he is trying to score more because that is his true game as a combo
He has to be a pg to be a starter long term and maybe he can be, but hes always been a combo imo
He's always been more of a true PG. He's scoring more now because opposing teams are dog piling Allen in the paint or going to zone. Sexton is a good but reluctant three point shooter, Nance is just okay, and Okoro is bad but recently improving.

The coaching staff has been on both guards to shoot more from 3 all season. Fifteen of his 29 came from 3 point shooting last night. But if our guards are reluctant to shoot from three, then our offense will continue to stall out because opposing teams are more than happy to have them drive into a crowded paint, especially when backed by a good rim protector like Poertl

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I guess it's understandable to say he has always been a true pg, but he was never a very good playmaker when he was drafted even though he played the pg position all his life as a combo
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1614 » by jbk1234 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:33 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:DG is putting it together now that he is trying to score more because that is his true game as a combo
He has to be a pg to be a starter long term and maybe he can be, but hes always been a combo imo
He's always been more of a true PG. He's scoring more now because opposing teams are dog piling Allen in the paint or going to zone. Sexton is a good but reluctant three point shooter, Nance is just okay, and Okoro is bad but recently improving.

The coaching staff has been on both guards to shoot more from 3 all season. Fifteen of his 29 came from 3 point shooting last night. But if our guards are reluctant to shoot from three, then our offense will continue to stall out because opposing teams are more than happy to have them drive into a crowded paint, especially when backed by a good rim protector like Poertl

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I guess it's understandable to say he has always been a true pg, but he was never a very good playmaker when he was drafted even though he played the pg position all his life as a combo
I mean the reality is that both Sexton and Garland should be taking six 3 point attempts a game, each, and no less than two each in the first half. Their defenders need to come out past, or at least to, the three point line on a regular basis. Almost no one bothers going over a screen when the play us. It's way too easy to play zone against our team. The overcrowding of the painted area makes passing more difficult.

Also if we run some back to the basket stuff for Allen, he can pass it back out to shooters when he gets doubled. But right now he's facing the basket on rolls and the other teams are keying on it. He's doubled all the time with no price to pay.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1615 » by Stillwater » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:08 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:He's always been more of a true PG. He's scoring more now because opposing teams are dog piling Allen in the paint or going to zone. Sexton is a good but reluctant three point shooter, Nance is just okay, and Okoro is bad but recently improving.

The coaching staff has been on both guards to shoot more from 3 all season. Fifteen of his 29 came from 3 point shooting last night. But if our guards are reluctant to shoot from three, then our offense will continue to stall out because opposing teams are more than happy to have them drive into a crowded paint, especially when backed by a good rim protector like Poertl

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I guess it's understandable to say he has always been a true pg, but he was never a very good playmaker when he was drafted even though he played the pg position all his life as a combo
I mean the reality is that both Sexton and Garland should be taking six 3 point attempts a game, each, and no less than two each in the first half. Their defenders need to come out past, or at least to, the three point line on a regular basis. Almost no one bothers going over a screen when the play us. It's way too easy to play zone against our team. The overcrowding of the painted area makes passing more difficult.

Also if we run some back to the basket stuff for Allen, he can pass it back out to shooters when he gets doubled. But right now he's facing the basket on rolls and the other teams are keying on it. He's doubled all the time with no price to pay.

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yeah the grind that JBB likes to employee definitely seems counter productive to anything but tanking maybe its all on the players but I am inclined to think if they had the green light they would both be bombing away
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1616 » by jbk1234 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:43 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I guess it's understandable to say he has always been a true pg, but he was never a very good playmaker when he was drafted even though he played the pg position all his life as a combo
I mean the reality is that both Sexton and Garland should be taking six 3 point attempts a game, each, and no less than two each in the first half. Their defenders need to come out past, or at least to, the three point line on a regular basis. Almost no one bothers going over a screen when the play us. It's way too easy to play zone against our team. The overcrowding of the painted area makes passing more difficult.

Also if we run some back to the basket stuff for Allen, he can pass it back out to shooters when he gets doubled. But right now he's facing the basket on rolls and the other teams are keying on it. He's doubled all the time with no price to pay.

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yeah the grind that JBB likes to employee definitely seems counter productive to anything but tanking maybe its all on the players but I am inclined to think if they had the green light they would both be bombing away
I think it's the players.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1617 » by youngthegiant » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:05 pm

How would you guys evaluate larry Nance's perimeter defense? Mainly being asked to defend a guy like Kawhi or Luka out in space or being switched onto guards.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1618 » by JonFromVA » Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:09 pm

youngthegiant wrote:How would you guys evaluate larry Nance's perimeter defense? Mainly being asked to defend a guy like Kawhi or Luka out in space or being switched onto guards.


Sounds like another fan pondering their team trading for Nance and how far it would move the needle. It's nice having a player who's actually valued around the league

IMO, Larry has some ability to defend small forwards, but it's clearly not his preference to defend on the wing. You shouldn't look at him as a stopper, but more so as a guy who won't be completely embarrassed whether switched on to a smaller/faster player or larger/strong.

His defensive strengths are his brain and hands. He does a good job anticipating and getting deflections/steals.

Offensively, he can knock down an open 3pt shot, is an asset with the ball in his hands and finishes well.

If you like how Millsap fits in Denver, but feel he's gotten too old/slow; I think you guys would like Larry a lot. That being said, it's going to be very hard to pry Larry off the Cavs, especially if the Nuggets are holding back MPJ for nothing short of an All-Star trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1619 » by Stillwater » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:33 pm

lol I cannot imagine Altman having the nads to trade LNJ even if there was a legit offer...it is just not a smart choice and he has to know that given how much better this team is with him out there.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1620 » by Harper4Ferry? » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:26 pm

realistically we'd need the nuggets to take back something like Nance and attach Prince's contract and we'd have to get back every good young bench player the nuggets have.

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