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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1641 » by Stillwater » Wed May 12, 2021 6:47 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:Just wondering what your guys' plan will be moving forward?

Think your pick would be available?
One of your young guards?
Love?

Seems like you have a nice group that just needs time.
Sexton
Garland
Okoro
Nance
Allen

Seems like a good core to me.

contrary to some peoples thoughts if the Cavs are sitting at 3rd overall for example with Mobley and Cunningham taken I think Garland could be had for a fair price aka he is not untouchable because the Cavs will definitely see Suggs as a franchise pg and with his ability to score above the rim play at faster pace that matches Sexton and Okoro he is the better fit than Garland. That being said there is a slim chance they also feel good enough about Green as a iso scorer despite being ball dominant as a BPA they just take him there.
There are not many other scenarios in my mind where they trade Garland and outside of getting a 2nd top 6 pick for him which seems unlikely I cannot see the Cavs justifying any move of Sexton at all regardless of impending contract expectations.
Okoro is proving to be more effective on ball as well so that also makes drafting Green less likely moving Suggs up.
I would take Barnes or Kuminga with Mobley taken as I think despite not resolving the spacing both have special upsides similar to Kawhi and Jonathan Isaac
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1642 » by JonFromVA » Wed May 12, 2021 7:28 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
It's close. He's injured and not under contract for as long as Tatum. I'd pull the trigger or even add a sweetener, but outside of Tatum and Brown, there's no other assets, or combination of assets, that would get the Celtics into the top 5 in this draft.



I think Smart can get them close.

Like the minny pick from GSW if that pick is 6th


It couldn't with the Cavs. Who knows what GS will do or even if that pick will convey, but salary matching is going to be an issue and they'll likely want to send out Wiggins.


Of course the Cavs would need to send salary back as well.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1643 » by jbk1234 » Wed May 12, 2021 8:10 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:

I think Smart can get them close.

Like the minny pick from GSW if that pick is 6th


It couldn't with the Cavs. Who knows what GS will do or even if that pick will convey, but salary matching is going to be an issue and they'll likely want to send out Wiggins.


Of course the Cavs would need to send salary back as well.


I agree but we have more options in terms of filler than GS. Oubre is expiring and he's their only mid-sized deal.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1644 » by NYG » Thu May 13, 2021 2:46 pm

If the Cavs are 6th overall post-lottery

Christian Wood, Eric Gordon, 23 and 24 for Love and 6?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1645 » by jbk1234 » Thu May 13, 2021 3:17 pm

NYG wrote:If the Cavs are 6th overall post-lottery

Christian Wood, Eric Gordon, 23 and 24 for Love and 6?
The Cavs wouldn't touch this. Love only has two years left, including Gordon negates the salary relief, and I'm not sure how Allen and Wood are supposed to play together.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1646 » by JonFromVA » Thu May 13, 2021 5:09 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
NYG wrote:If the Cavs are 6th overall post-lottery

Christian Wood, Eric Gordon, 23 and 24 for Love and 6?
The Cavs wouldn't touch this. Love only has two years left, including Gordon negates the salary relief, and I'm not sure how Allen and Wood are supposed to play together.


Strip out all the fluff, and I don't even see a point swapping Love and Gordon unless Love refused a bench role and we felt Gordon would not.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1647 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 5:06 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
NYG wrote:If the Cavs are 6th overall post-lottery

Christian Wood, Eric Gordon, 23 and 24 for Love and 6?
The Cavs wouldn't touch this. Love only has two years left, including Gordon negates the salary relief, and I'm not sure how Allen and Wood are supposed to play together.


Strip out all the fluff, and I don't even see a point swapping Love and Gordon unless Love refused a bench role and we felt Gordon would not.
I'm not even sure what refused a bench role means though. It's not his call.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1648 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:33 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The Cavs wouldn't touch this. Love only has two years left, including Gordon negates the salary relief, and I'm not sure how Allen and Wood are supposed to play together.


Strip out all the fluff, and I don't even see a point swapping Love and Gordon unless Love refused a bench role and we felt Gordon would not.
I'm not even sure what refused a bench role means though. It's not his call.


I guess it's a little too late to ask you to explain that to Andre Drummond?
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1649 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:46 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Strip out all the fluff, and I don't even see a point swapping Love and Gordon unless Love refused a bench role and we felt Gordon would not.
I'm not even sure what refused a bench role means though. It's not his call.


I guess it's a little too late to ask you to explain that to Andre Drummond?
I chuckled. But seriously, Kevin isn't in Drummond's position. He's been unable to stay healthy and has already damaged his perception around the NBA with the pouting. He has two years left on his deal and if Schwartz asks for a buyout, this one is going to be expensive for his client.

Frankly, that agent cost Drummond a lot of money. He should've told his client to come off the bench and beast against second units. He should've immediately tried to get him to an East Coast bubble team in dire need of a center. Drummond's fit on a team with LBJ and AD was very questionable on paper, he played really poorly in those West Coast matchups, and his best case scenario on the Lakers was a glorified role player.

Imagine the possible outcomes had he gone to Charlotte, Boston, or Toronto instead.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1650 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not even sure what refused a bench role means though. It's not his call.


I guess it's a little too late to ask you to explain that to Andre Drummond?
I chuckled. But seriously, Kevin isn't in Drummond's position. He's been unable to stay healthy and has already damaged his perception around the NBA with the pouting. He has two years left on his deal and if Schwartz asks for a buyout, this one is going to be expensive for his client.

Frankly, that agent cost Drummond a lot of money. He should've told his client to come off the bench and beast against second units. He should've immediately tried to get him to an East Coast bubble team in dire need of a center. Drummond's fit on a team with LBJ and AD was very questionable on paper, he played really poorly in those West Coast matchups, and his best case scenario on the Lakers was a glorified role player.

Imagine the possible outcomes had he gone to Charlotte, Boston, or Toronto instead.


I often don't believe the media, but some of them have been saying we have no choice but to buy Kevin out and eat the rest of his contract or trade him with an asset.

Sometimes this is just conjecture out of control and sometimes it's based on stuff the media is hearing but not reporting.

But if we ask Kevin to come off the bench for us, he could very well do what Drummond did ... which is sabotage the team by playing selfishly. That's unfortunately why he has a choice.

As for Drummond, I thought he picked a good situation to improve his value, but James and Davis were never fully healthy ... and ... there's just a number of things Andre is not good at even when he feels like playing hard.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1651 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 2:53 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I guess it's a little too late to ask you to explain that to Andre Drummond?
I chuckled. But seriously, Kevin isn't in Drummond's position. He's been unable to stay healthy and has already damaged his perception around the NBA with the pouting. He has two years left on his deal and if Schwartz asks for a buyout, this one is going to be expensive for his client.

Frankly, that agent cost Drummond a lot of money. He should've told his client to come off the bench and beast against second units. He should've immediately tried to get him to an East Coast bubble team in dire need of a center. Drummond's fit on a team with LBJ and AD was very questionable on paper, he played really poorly in those West Coast matchups, and his best case scenario on the Lakers was a glorified role player.

Imagine the possible outcomes had he gone to Charlotte, Boston, or Toronto instead.


I often don't believe the media, but some of them have been saying we have no choice but to buy Kevin out and eat the rest of his contract or trade him with an asset.

Sometimes this is just conjecture out of control and sometimes it's based on stuff the media is hearing but not reporting.

But if we ask Kevin to come off the bench for us, he could very well do what Drummond did ... which is sabotage the team by playing selfishly. That's unfortunately why he has a choice.

As for Drummond, I thought he picked a good situation to improve his value, but James and Davis were never fully healthy ... and ... there's just a number of things Andre is not good at even when he feels like playing hard.
So Love plays selfishly off the bench, the Cavs DNP him, and then what? Schwartz says I'll steer my clients away from you if you don't buy him out at 90 cents on the dollar? At some point you arrive a don't threaten me with a good time outcome.

If you have to pay his clients, who are already making 200% of their current market value (and that's being generous to his clients) nearly 100% of their salaries, TO GO PLAY FOR ANOTHER TEAM, why do you want to sign those clients?

Agents owe a duty to all their clients and cutting the number of available landing spots down from 30 to 29 isn't in the rest of his clients interests. But at some point the madness has to stop. If people don't want to be reasonable or operate in good faith, maybe don't deal with those people. And if you really like a player, you can always trade for or draft that player.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1652 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:05 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I chuckled. But seriously, Kevin isn't in Drummond's position. He's been unable to stay healthy and has already damaged his perception around the NBA with the pouting. He has two years left on his deal and if Schwartz asks for a buyout, this one is going to be expensive for his client.

Frankly, that agent cost Drummond a lot of money. He should've told his client to come off the bench and beast against second units. He should've immediately tried to get him to an East Coast bubble team in dire need of a center. Drummond's fit on a team with LBJ and AD was very questionable on paper, he played really poorly in those West Coast matchups, and his best case scenario on the Lakers was a glorified role player.

Imagine the possible outcomes had he gone to Charlotte, Boston, or Toronto instead.


I often don't believe the media, but some of them have been saying we have no choice but to buy Kevin out and eat the rest of his contract or trade him with an asset.

Sometimes this is just conjecture out of control and sometimes it's based on stuff the media is hearing but not reporting.

But if we ask Kevin to come off the bench for us, he could very well do what Drummond did ... which is sabotage the team by playing selfishly. That's unfortunately why he has a choice.

As for Drummond, I thought he picked a good situation to improve his value, but James and Davis were never fully healthy ... and ... there's just a number of things Andre is not good at even when he feels like playing hard.
So Love plays selfishly off the bench, the Cavs DNP him, and then what? Schwartz says I'll steer my clients away from you if you don't buy him out at 90 cents on the dollar? At some point you arrive a don't threaten me with a good time outcome.

If you have to pay his clients, who are already making 200% of their current market value (and that's being generous to his clients) nearly 100% of their salaries, TO GO PLAY FOR ANOTHER TEAM, why do you want to sign those clients?

Agents owe a duty to all their clients and cutting the number of available landing spots down from 30 to 29 isn't in the rest of his clients interests. But at some point the madness has to stop. If people don't want to be reasonable or operate in good faith, maybe don't deal with those people. And if you really like a player, you can always trade for or draft that player.


Nah, what happens is the Cavs take a lot of flack from other players and the media that they don't want to deal with, so they end up buying out Kevin so the problem goes away.

The owners need some sort of consideration in the next CBA to deal with an unhappy/belligerent player ... old school steps like fining and suspending without pay are just off the table, unless the league is enforcing a rule violation.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1653 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 4:04 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I often don't believe the media, but some of them have been saying we have no choice but to buy Kevin out and eat the rest of his contract or trade him with an asset.

Sometimes this is just conjecture out of control and sometimes it's based on stuff the media is hearing but not reporting.

But if we ask Kevin to come off the bench for us, he could very well do what Drummond did ... which is sabotage the team by playing selfishly. That's unfortunately why he has a choice.

As for Drummond, I thought he picked a good situation to improve his value, but James and Davis were never fully healthy ... and ... there's just a number of things Andre is not good at even when he feels like playing hard.
So Love plays selfishly off the bench, the Cavs DNP him, and then what? Schwartz says I'll steer my clients away from you if you don't buy him out at 90 cents on the dollar? At some point you arrive a don't threaten me with a good time outcome.

If you have to pay his clients, who are already making 200% of their current market value (and that's being generous to his clients) nearly 100% of their salaries, TO GO PLAY FOR ANOTHER TEAM, why do you want to sign those clients?

Agents owe a duty to all their clients and cutting the number of available landing spots down from 30 to 29 isn't in the rest of his clients interests. But at some point the madness has to stop. If people don't want to be reasonable or operate in good faith, maybe don't deal with those people. And if you really like a player, you can always trade for or draft that player.


Nah, what happens is the Cavs take a lot of flack from other players and the media that they don't want to deal with, so they end up buying out Kevin so the problem goes away.

The owners need some sort of consideration in the next CBA to deal with an unhappy/belligerent player ... old school steps like fining and suspending without pay are just off the table, unless the league is enforcing a rule violation.
At that point, you go to war. Step up the microphone at a press conference. Reiterate that you've always tried to be fair, that you've paid players their full salaries to stay home or play for another team in the past, but that can't become the new normal or mid market teams won't be able to compete.

Point out that the $16M JR got for not playing was a lot of money and those dollars were unable to be spent on other players. Same with Drummond. Same with Love. If you're paying full freight to players who aren't playing for you, you can't spend those same dollars on other players.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1654 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:20 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:So Love plays selfishly off the bench, the Cavs DNP him, and then what? Schwartz says I'll steer my clients away from you if you don't buy him out at 90 cents on the dollar? At some point you arrive a don't threaten me with a good time outcome.

If you have to pay his clients, who are already making 200% of their current market value (and that's being generous to his clients) nearly 100% of their salaries, TO GO PLAY FOR ANOTHER TEAM, why do you want to sign those clients?

Agents owe a duty to all their clients and cutting the number of available landing spots down from 30 to 29 isn't in the rest of his clients interests. But at some point the madness has to stop. If people don't want to be reasonable or operate in good faith, maybe don't deal with those people. And if you really like a player, you can always trade for or draft that player.


Nah, what happens is the Cavs take a lot of flack from other players and the media that they don't want to deal with, so they end up buying out Kevin so the problem goes away.

The owners need some sort of consideration in the next CBA to deal with an unhappy/belligerent player ... old school steps like fining and suspending without pay are just off the table, unless the league is enforcing a rule violation.
At that point, you go to war. Step up the microphone at a press conference. Reiterate that you've always tried to be fair, that you've paid players their full salaries to stay home or play for another team in the past, but that can't become the new normal or mid market teams won't be able to compete.

Point out that the $16M JR got for not playing was a lot of money and those dollars were unable to be spent on other players. Same with Drummond. Same with Love. If you're paying full freight to players who aren't playing for you, you can't spend those same dollars on other players.

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The NBA isn't going to war over something unless the owners feel they can't make money or compete because of it ... otherwise they will adjust their strategies ... maybe work the fringes and ask for shorter contracts
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1655 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:17 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Nah, what happens is the Cavs take a lot of flack from other players and the media that they don't want to deal with, so they end up buying out Kevin so the problem goes away.

The owners need some sort of consideration in the next CBA to deal with an unhappy/belligerent player ... old school steps like fining and suspending without pay are just off the table, unless the league is enforcing a rule violation.
At that point, you go to war. Step up the microphone at a press conference. Reiterate that you've always tried to be fair, that you've paid players their full salaries to stay home or play for another team in the past, but that can't become the new normal or mid market teams won't be able to compete.

Point out that the $16M JR got for not playing was a lot of money and those dollars were unable to be spent on other players. Same with Drummond. Same with Love. If you're paying full freight to players who aren't playing for you, you can't spend those same dollars on other players.

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The NBA isn't going to war over something unless the owners feel they can't make money or compete because of it ... otherwise they will adjust their strategies ... maybe work the fringes and ask for shorter contracts
I meant the Cavs and Swartz. If Kevin isn't giving back real money, go find a trade where the other team will send back expiring contracts. That trade doesn't exist? I don't want to hear griping about whether he's starting or not. I don't want hear any griping at all. Stay healthy, play yourself up to neutral trade value, or give back money.

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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1656 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:At that point, you go to war. Step up the microphone at a press conference. Reiterate that you've always tried to be fair, that you've paid players their full salaries to stay home or play for another team in the past, but that can't become the new normal or mid market teams won't be able to compete.

Point out that the $16M JR got for not playing was a lot of money and those dollars were unable to be spent on other players. Same with Drummond. Same with Love. If you're paying full freight to players who aren't playing for you, you can't spend those same dollars on other players.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


The NBA isn't going to war over something unless the owners feel they can't make money or compete because of it ... otherwise they will adjust their strategies ... maybe work the fringes and ask for shorter contracts
I meant the Cavs and Swartz. If Kevin isn't giving back real money, go find a trade where the other team will send back expiring contracts. That trade doesn't exist? I don't want to hear griping about whether he's starting or not. I don't want hear any griping at all. Stay healthy, play yourself up to neutral trade value, or give back money.


Which in the modern NBA requires the opposite of going to war. You setup fair conditions so the player will end up getting what he wants as long as he acts in good faith. That's about the best you can do.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1657 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:30 pm

So, lots of rumors have been flying - pretty much extremely low quality stuff at this point - but some of them at least try to make connections.

Like the Cavs being interested in trading for CJ McCollum because he great up in Canton, is a Brown's fan, etc; but presuming we'd give up both Sexton and Love to get it done.

Or the Wizards potentially being interested in trading for Love to pair him with his College roommate, Westbrook. The Cavs would probably get Bertans and filler. Some desperation to shake things up to keep Westbrook and Beal happy might get something done here.

The CJ deal doesn't make much sense to me, but maybe it would make sense as a 3-way. A Wizards deal has some potential, and worst case would break Love's contract in to smaller pieces that could potentially be dealt.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1658 » by Revenged25 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:15 pm

Does CJ even make the Cavs better than what Sexton does? Their points, assists, and total shots are almost all identical, just CJ takes 2x as many 3's and is 7 years older.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1659 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 7, 2021 6:43 pm

Revenged25 wrote:Does CJ even make the Cavs better than what Sexton does? Their points, assists, and total shots are almost all identical, just CJ takes 2x as many 3's and is 7 years older.


More experience always counts, but he's a lot older, doesn't fit the timeline of our core, has had a lot more injury problems, and doesn't address our defensive issues or our short backcourt. So that's why I don't think it makes any sense unless he was moved to a 3rd team.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#1660 » by Stillwater » Mon Jun 7, 2021 7:54 pm

Revenged25 wrote:Does CJ even make the Cavs better than what Sexton does? Their points, assists, and total shots are almost all identical, just CJ takes 2x as many 3's and is 7 years older.

AND HE DOES NOT MAKE THEM BETTER DEFENSIVELY AT ALL
the entire proposal seems outside influenced and unrealistic except that everyone knows it will cost the Cavs a large amount of value to move Loves deal. so it should come as no surprise imo that he is not getting traded short of somebody deciding he is an upgrade to an expiring and don't need any further assets to justify getting him.
I mean they could trade Sexton and get an actual good player the same age back if they really wanted to move him instead of using him as a means to dump KLove.
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