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Trade Ideas (Part III)

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Revenged25
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2401 » by Revenged25 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:28 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that we need to wait till this season is over to pay Sexton so that they can better evaluate him.


I have no problem signing him for a price that would both let us build with him or trade him if necessary. I feel that's around $20M.


I think everyone is also in agreement that if he signed for $20M right now they'd be ecstatic even if he was moved to the bench as I think he'd still be part of the "Big 3" for the team, just in a role like Harden with OKC or Ginobli with the Spurs. I think the cheapest we can expect him to sign right now though is probably $25M though which I think is still a good deal when you consider his continual improvement and the rising cap numbers due to the next TV deal.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2402 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:41 pm

Revenged25 wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that we need to wait till this season is over to pay Sexton so that they can better evaluate him.

Not me. I am convinced they need to come to an agreement on an extension now( which I don't think he will do if it's really weak) if he is going to remain in a Cavs jersey long term. At least to avoid having to match a higher offer sheet in RFA it would benefit the team to get him locked up for less than a max now even if it is more than some think he has earned yet. They likely won't match what offers he gets assuming some org will give him an overpay offer to force the Cavs hand of they won't pay him now imo... and so he is gone regardless if not paid before this season in most scenarios...Maybe he gets hurt or has a bad season and doesn't get any real offers in FA but that is far less odds than I would expect to pay out.
Worst case I think if they don't pay him now and he goes with the big F the org attitude for the beginning of the season, then they will trade him for some meh scrub and a late first at the deadline. ALl his fans will revolt and all his haters will say it was all he was worth etc etc.I then see a bleak future for him where he goes on to destroy the Cavs a couple times a season if he isn't traded to the West , but he probably is nothing more than a bench player that is underpaid for most of his career as a result of this orgs inept ability to embrace the kids unique skill sets to be a dominant scorer on a contender and help him have every incentive to get there.
They gave him a chance and I think he feels he owes them so he may take a cut, but not much given his production is bound to be better each year of the new deal
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2403 » by Revenged25 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:47 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that we need to wait till this season is over to pay Sexton so that they can better evaluate him.

Not me. I am convinced they need to come to an agreement on an extension now( which I don't think he will do if it's really weak) if he is going to remain in a Cavs jersey long term. At least to avoid having to match a higher offer sheet in RFA it would benefit the team to get him locked up for less than a max now even if it is more than some think he has earned yet. They likely won't match what offers he gets assuming some org will give him an overpay offer to force the Cavs hand of they won't pay him now imo... and so he is gone regardless if not paid before this season in most scenarios...Maybe he gets hurt or has a bad season and doesn't get any real offers in FA but that is far less odds than I would expect to pay out.
Worst case I think if they don't pay him now and he goes with the big F the org attitude for the beginning of the season, then they will trade him for some meh scrub and a late first at the deadline. ALl his fans will revolt and all his haters will say it was all he was worth etc etc.I then see a bleak future for him where he goes on to destroy the Cavs a couple times a season if he isn't traded to the West , but he probably is nothing more than a bench player that is underpaid for most of his career as a result of this orgs inept ability to embrace the kids unique skill sets to be a dominant scorer on a contender and help him have every incentive to get there.


I mean I'm ready to give him 5/125M right now and I'd put it on the table for him based on his production and projections for the future. Now I doubt he'll accept that, but I don't think it's a lowball offer he'd be offended by, but I think he wants to show he's worth a bigger contract and will bet on himself to show it throughout the year and force us to give him a bigger contract, which honestly if he does it I'm fine with it. I think Garland will probably end up topping out at Ball's contract, maybe even ends up being as low as Devonte Graham's contract as I think Graham will end up getting back to his 2nd year numbers with NOP as he'll have a bigger role without LaMelo taking his role over.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2404 » by toooskies » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:28 pm

I'd like a Sexton extension in the $20-25m range with all-star incentives.

I'd really like to snag Hart or Garrison Mathews or James Ennis or even JJ Redick for depth. Maybe the Cavs are just waiting to see if they have a summer league guy who pops...
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2405 » by Wisedude » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:28 pm

I would offer Sexton the same contract as Jarret Allen. 5yr/$100m. One is not more important than the other imo.
Allen is the starting Center. Is Sexton eventually the Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson off the bench for the Pistons from many years ago.
Also, if an extension is signed, it must be a tradeable contract unlike the Love contract (even considering the health issues of Love).
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2406 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:27 pm

Wisedude wrote:I would offer Sexton the same contract as Jarret Allen. 5yr/$100m. One is not more important than the other imo.
Allen is the starting Center. Is Sexton eventually the Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson off the bench for the Pistons from many years ago.
Also, if an extension is signed, it must be a tradeable contract unlike the Love contract (even considering the health issues of Love).

Nothing wrong with offering that, if you don't actually expect him to stay in CLE anyway or something...but if they want him to continue his grind for greatness and see the pay off for all his hard work on the Cavs, and not some other roster willing to put the $$$ on the table . They need to be a little more realistic than that. The going rate for a player of Sextons projections is a max not a near max or a low ball microwave offer... He is worth more as a player than any rim runner / rim protector who they paid handsomely I might add for what he does esp given they also drafted a big.
In the end I think he is gone and they low ball him. Hope they come to their senses and pay up and his trajectory is star level. The only reason you don't pay him what he should get on a FA market after next season now, is if you really think he wants to win so bad and believes this team can win as is that he's willing to take a discount after the season even if he does "earn" the full max. Unlikely he completely earns it though s it will take 2 -3 more seasons before he is worth a full max.
I think he accepts nothing short of 4/100 or 5/150
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2407 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that we need to wait till this season is over to pay Sexton so that they can better evaluate him.


I have no problem signing him for a price that would both let us build with him or trade him if necessary. I feel that's around $20M.


I think everyone is also in agreement that if he signed for $20M right now they'd be ecstatic even if he was moved to the bench as I think he'd still be part of the "Big 3" for the team, just in a role like Harden with OKC or Ginobli with the Spurs. I think the cheapest we can expect him to sign right now though is probably $25M though which I think is still a good deal when you consider his continual improvement and the rising cap numbers due to the next TV deal.


$25M depending how it's structured might work, but once it gets above $20M I think letting things play out makes more sense.

I'd love to pile on a bunch of unlikely bonuses for Collin, but they'd have to be structured in a way that they don't become detrimental to the team and/or his development because I think he's the type of personality that if you put a target in front of his eyes he will focus all his energy on that.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2408 » by Revenged25 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:43 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I have no problem signing him for a price that would both let us build with him or trade him if necessary. I feel that's around $20M.


I think everyone is also in agreement that if he signed for $20M right now they'd be ecstatic even if he was moved to the bench as I think he'd still be part of the "Big 3" for the team, just in a role like Harden with OKC or Ginobli with the Spurs. I think the cheapest we can expect him to sign right now though is probably $25M though which I think is still a good deal when you consider his continual improvement and the rising cap numbers due to the next TV deal.


$25M depending how it's structured might work, but once it gets above $20M I think letting things play out makes more sense.

I'd love to pile on a bunch of unlikely bonuses for Collin, but they'd have to be structured in a way that they don't become detrimental to the team and/or his development because I think he's the type of personality that if you put a target in front of his eyes he will focus all his energy on that.


I think any "unlikely bonuses" that are based on things Collin can control, improved passing, improved defense, etc, are all things that would become "likely bonuses" quite quickly. Dude works way too hard to not be able to get to those milestones unless they are completely unrealistic and would lead to being detrimental to the team if he tried to achieve them.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2409 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:02 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think everyone is also in agreement that if he signed for $20M right now they'd be ecstatic even if he was moved to the bench as I think he'd still be part of the "Big 3" for the team, just in a role like Harden with OKC or Ginobli with the Spurs. I think the cheapest we can expect him to sign right now though is probably $25M though which I think is still a good deal when you consider his continual improvement and the rising cap numbers due to the next TV deal.


$25M depending how it's structured might work, but once it gets above $20M I think letting things play out makes more sense.

I'd love to pile on a bunch of unlikely bonuses for Collin, but they'd have to be structured in a way that they don't become detrimental to the team and/or his development because I think he's the type of personality that if you put a target in front of his eyes he will focus all his energy on that.


I think any "unlikely bonuses" that are based on things Collin can control, improved passing, improved defense, etc, are all things that would become "likely bonuses" quite quickly. Dude works way too hard to not be able to get to those milestones unless they are completely unrealistic and would lead to being detrimental to the team if he tried to achieve them.


Team wins. :lol:

The advantage of unlikely bonuses is they don't create a cap hit until the season after they pay off, so, they can be strategic when planning cap space.

But the main idea would be to pay Collin the max if he was actually doing things that would have earned him the max. So, if he's trying to bet on himself, he literally could. We just don't want him hunting stats.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2410 » by Revenged25 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:04 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
$25M depending how it's structured might work, but once it gets above $20M I think letting things play out makes more sense.

I'd love to pile on a bunch of unlikely bonuses for Collin, but they'd have to be structured in a way that they don't become detrimental to the team and/or his development because I think he's the type of personality that if you put a target in front of his eyes he will focus all his energy on that.


I think any "unlikely bonuses" that are based on things Collin can control, improved passing, improved defense, etc, are all things that would become "likely bonuses" quite quickly. Dude works way too hard to not be able to get to those milestones unless they are completely unrealistic and would lead to being detrimental to the team if he tried to achieve them.


Team wins. :lol:

The advantage of unlikely bonuses is they don't create a cap hit until the season after they pay off, so, they can be strategic when planning cap space.

But the main idea would be to pay Collin the max if he was actually doing things that would have earned him the max. So, if he's trying to bet on himself, he literally could. We just don't want him hunting stats.


The problem with using team wins for anything other than a minor bonus is that it's sooooo dependent on more than just a single player. Not even LeBron can push a team to the playoffs if the surrounding talent is bad and/or injured.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2411 » by RiRuHoops » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:I see a big bounce back year from K-LO. An allstar snub level.

He gonna do that from the lounge? KLove is done


I think he meant Kyle Lowry.


He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2412 » by mg » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:53 pm

RiRuHoops wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He gonna do that from the lounge? KLove is done


I think he meant Kyle Lowry.


He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.


What was his excuse for quitting in the Olympics? Didn't like playing with score first guards like Dame? From what I recall Rubio and Love don't get along. Rubio was questioning Love's leadership when they were both in Minnesota.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2413 » by toooskies » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:43 pm

mg wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think he meant Kyle Lowry.


He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.


What was his excuse for quitting in the Olympics? Didn't like playing with score first guards like Dame? From what I recall Rubio and Love don't get along. Rubio was questioning Love's leadership when they were both in Minnesota.

My understanding is that he showed up not ready to play and the team allowed him to withdraw instead of just cutting him.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2414 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:47 pm

RiRuHoops wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He gonna do that from the lounge? KLove is done


I think he meant Kyle Lowry.


He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.

Love tell you this or is this just another speculation on the part of Rubio fans? Love is injury prone what he is tired of if anything is getting injured... he will come off the bench for this team if he is healthy enough to do it, and I think he could help them some since they lack spacing, but overall don't expect him to be around anyway as a bo seems most likely.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2415 » by RiRuHoops » Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:58 pm

Stillwater wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think he meant Kyle Lowry.


He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.

Love tell you this or is this just another speculation on the part of Rubio fans? Love is injury prone what he is tired of if anything is getting injured... he will come off the bench for this team if he is healthy enough to do it, and I think he could help them some since they lack spacing, but overall don't expect him to be around anyway as a bo seems most likely.


Why bring 18 mil backup PG? There got to be some plan behind it. I don't buy the "mentor the young guards" crap. Rubio most likely won't even do this ****.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2416 » by toooskies » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:45 pm

RiRuHoops wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:
He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.

Love tell you this or is this just another speculation on the part of Rubio fans? Love is injury prone what he is tired of if anything is getting injured... he will come off the bench for this team if he is healthy enough to do it, and I think he could help them some since they lack spacing, but overall don't expect him to be around anyway as a bo seems most likely.


Why bring 18 mil backup PG? There got to be some plan behind it. I don't buy the "mentor the young guards" crap. Rubio most likely won't even do this ****.

Maybe the plan is just to have solid-to-spectacular backup PG play instead of the sub-replacement-level PG play we saw when Garland was out.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2417 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:26 pm

RiRuHoops wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:
He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.

Love tell you this or is this just another speculation on the part of Rubio fans? Love is injury prone what he is tired of if anything is getting injured... he will come off the bench for this team if he is healthy enough to do it, and I think he could help them some since they lack spacing, but overall don't expect him to be around anyway as a bo seems most likely.


Why bring 18 mil backup PG? There got to be some plan behind it. I don't buy the "mentor the young guards" crap. Rubio most likely won't even do this ****.


Rubio is a 30 yr old expiring contract ... the plan behind this is to use him to fill a hole and flip him. Most non-Cavs fans don't seem aware how the second richest nba owner likes to manipulate the NBA cap.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2418 » by Stillwater » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:30 pm

RiRuHoops wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
RiRuHoops wrote:
He's just tired of playing with idiot score first guards. They brought Rubio to help him get going (Bikerstaff was a coach in Minny when both were there). There will be an attempt to pump his value up.

Love tell you this or is this just another speculation on the part of Rubio fans? Love is injury prone what he is tired of if anything is getting injured... he will come off the bench for this team if he is healthy enough to do it, and I think he could help them some since they lack spacing, but overall don't expect him to be around anyway as a bo seems most likely.


Why bring 18 mil backup PG? There got to be some plan behind it. I don't buy the "mentor the young guards" crap. Rubio most likely won't even do this ****.

I would have brought in a 6'4 PG in the 2nd round using some future 2nds . This draft had more than enough to go around...but I would rather had seen then do what they did getting a Rubio rental and go get a floor spacer in the draft . Either way you cannot solve all your problems at once and Rubio is not here because of Love imo...he might be to some extent I guess since they had some chemistry a decade ago or what seems like it, but overall it's just about getting a Delly replacement aka someone who can run an offense and play a little defense
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2419 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:42 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think any "unlikely bonuses" that are based on things Collin can control, improved passing, improved defense, etc, are all things that would become "likely bonuses" quite quickly. Dude works way too hard to not be able to get to those milestones unless they are completely unrealistic and would lead to being detrimental to the team if he tried to achieve them.


Team wins. :lol:

The advantage of unlikely bonuses is they don't create a cap hit until the season after they pay off, so, they can be strategic when planning cap space.

But the main idea would be to pay Collin the max if he was actually doing things that would have earned him the max. So, if he's trying to bet on himself, he literally could. We just don't want him hunting stats.


The problem with using team wins for anything other than a minor bonus is that it's sooooo dependent on more than just a single player. Not even LeBron can push a team to the playoffs if the surrounding talent is bad and/or injured.


I believe there are limits on these bonuses so they can only make up so much of a deal, but wins are presumably what both sides want.
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Re: Trade Ideas (Part III) 

Post#2420 » by KuruptedCav » Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:23 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Team wins. :lol:

The advantage of unlikely bonuses is they don't create a cap hit until the season after they pay off, so, they can be strategic when planning cap space.

But the main idea would be to pay Collin the max if he was actually doing things that would have earned him the max. So, if he's trying to bet on himself, he literally could. We just don't want him hunting stats.


The problem with using team wins for anything other than a minor bonus is that it's sooooo dependent on more than just a single player. Not even LeBron can push a team to the playoffs if the surrounding talent is bad and/or injured.


I believe there are limits on these bonuses so they can only make up so much of a deal, but wins are presumably what both sides want.

Limited to 15% of base salary.


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