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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#121 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I get that teams were worried about these guys getting max offers next summer in a thin free agency crop, but I'm not good with most of these extensions. You get the extra season before you have to make that commitment and I'd rather take the risk of having to match a rookie max offer, with the smaller raises, then commit that much money before I was sure. If these guys level off this season, these teams could regret those signings for a long time. The only one I think I like is Buddy's.


Sounds good, but you may have to deal with a hold out, a Rich Paul client insisting on taking the QO, a player who's value increases, a player who gets out of sorts or plays selfishly, etc.

As a bonus, the team's that signed these players are under little pressure to trade them. They can take their time and find the right deal if they decide they really can't afford what they offered.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#122 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:46 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I get that teams were worried about these guys getting max offers next summer in a thin free agency crop, but I'm not good with most of these extensions. You get the extra season before you have to make that commitment and I'd rather take the risk of having to match a rookie max offer, with the smaller raises, then commit that much money before I was sure. If these guys level off this season, these teams could regret those signings for a long time. The only one I think I like is Buddy's.


Sounds good, but you may have to deal with a hold out, a Rich Paul client insisting on taking the QO, a player who's value increases, a player who gets out of sorts or plays selfishly, etc.

As a bonus, the team's that signed these players are under little pressure to trade them. They can take their time and find the right deal if they decide they really can't afford what they offered.


The right deal for a player making 150-200% of their worth often means being stuck with that player.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#123 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:07 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I get that teams were worried about these guys getting max offers next summer in a thin free agency crop, but I'm not good with most of these extensions. You get the extra season before you have to make that commitment and I'd rather take the risk of having to match a rookie max offer, with the smaller raises, then commit that much money before I was sure. If these guys level off this season, these teams could regret those signings for a long time. The only one I think I like is Buddy's.


Sounds good, but you may have to deal with a hold out, a Rich Paul client insisting on taking the QO, a player who's value increases, a player who gets out of sorts or plays selfishly, etc.

As a bonus, the team's that signed these players are under little pressure to trade them. They can take their time and find the right deal if they decide they really can't afford what they offered.


The right deal for a player making 150-200% of their worth often means being stuck with that player.


As long as there's one GM out there who would have max'd that player out in free-agency, and I could actually see the potential of that happening with Brown, Sabonis, Hield, and Murray; then a deal can be made. Value in the real-world sense doesn't really exist in the NBA due to the limited supply of talent, the leverage that talent holds, and false scarcity.

There's definitely risk to this approach, but it's not all risk. Hield, for instance, is the oldest of the bunch. He's almost 27, but that means he's basically entering his NBA prime and the Kings will be getting the best out of him over his contract. The other guys, otoh, should still be improving for 2-3 years before entering their prime.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#124 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:18 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Sounds good, but you may have to deal with a hold out, a Rich Paul client insisting on taking the QO, a player who's value increases, a player who gets out of sorts or plays selfishly, etc.

As a bonus, the team's that signed these players are under little pressure to trade them. They can take their time and find the right deal if they decide they really can't afford what they offered.


The right deal for a player making 150-200% of their worth often means being stuck with that player.


As long as there's one GM out there who would have max'd that player out in free-agency, and I could actually see the potential of that happening with Brown, Sabonis, Hield, and Murray; then a deal can be made. Value in the real-world sense doesn't really exist in the NBA due to the limited supply of talent, the leverage that talent holds, and false scarcity.

There's definitely risk to this approach, but it's not all risk. Hield, for instance, is the oldest of the bunch. He's almost 27, but that means he's basically entering his NBA prime and the Kings will be getting the best out of him over his contract. The other guys, otoh, should still be improving for 2-3 years before entering their prime.


Yeah, I understood the Hield deal. That said, Clarkson averaged more PPG than everyone else on that list. TT averaged more rebounds and is at least as good a defender as Sabonis. Brown just got $115M and he averaged 13 ppg last year. That's nuts.

There are certainly scenarios where these are all good signings. Sabonis fits well with Turner in the front court, doesn't destroy the spacing, and has a career that more closely resembles his regular season performance than his playoff performance. Murray has a career that more closely resembles his playoff performance than his regular season performance. Brown becomes an all star. But there are some pretty big question marks surrounding all these guys and it's just a ton of money to commit before those are answered.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#125 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:31 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The right deal for a player making 150-200% of their worth often means being stuck with that player.


As long as there's one GM out there who would have max'd that player out in free-agency, and I could actually see the potential of that happening with Brown, Sabonis, Hield, and Murray; then a deal can be made. Value in the real-world sense doesn't really exist in the NBA due to the limited supply of talent, the leverage that talent holds, and false scarcity.

There's definitely risk to this approach, but it's not all risk. Hield, for instance, is the oldest of the bunch. He's almost 27, but that means he's basically entering his NBA prime and the Kings will be getting the best out of him over his contract. The other guys, otoh, should still be improving for 2-3 years before entering their prime.


Yeah, I understood the Hield deal. That said, Clarkson averaged more PPG than everyone else on that list. TT averaged more rebounds and is at least as good a defender as Sabonis. Brown just got $115M and he averaged 13 ppg last year. That's nuts.

There are certainly scenarios where these are all good signings. Sabonis fits well with Turner in the front court, doesn't destroy the spacing, and has a career that more closely resembles his regular season performance than his playoff performance. Murray has a career that more closely resembles his playoff performance than his regular season performance. Brown becomes an all star. But there are some pretty big question marks surrounding all these guys and it's just a ton of money to commit before those are answered.


Fortunately it's not our problem unless Altman is in love with one of these guys. Salaries in the NBA are pretty nuts, though.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#126 » by gflem » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 pm

I got in late last night but was able to watch some of the Lakers vs Clippers. I have to say it warmed my heart a bit to watch the Clippers without Paul George beat the Lakers.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#127 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:05 am

Wiggins is 8/25 tonight at the end of regulation.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#128 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:20 am

jbk1234 wrote:Wiggins is 8/25 tonight at the end of regulation.

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And Kyrie scores 50 in a losing effort.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#129 » by jbk1234 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:27 pm

So the Hawks are the only team in the NBA currently with cap space and they only have $4M in space. There's a bunch of teams up against the apron and a bunch more up against the tax line. The Mavs, Kings and Knicks really messed up spending all of their available space on middling vets. That space would be an absolute premium right now as tax teams, or near tax teams, need third parties involved to help facilitate deals.

I hope our front office is paying attention. If we can keep $10M or so in space heading into next season, that's definitely something the Cavs should consider.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#130 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:52 pm

jbk1234 wrote:So the Hawks are the only team in the NBA currently with cap space and they only have $4M in space. There's a bunch of teams up against the apron and a bunch more up against the tax line. The Mavs, Kings and Knicks really messed up spending all of their available space on middling vets. That space would be an absolute premium right now as tax teams, or near tax teams, need third parties involved to help facilitate deals.

I hope our front office is paying attention. If we can keep $10M or so in space heading into next season, that's definitely something the Cavs should consider.


I suppose that depends what else they have on the table that they can do with the money. We can already help a team up against the luxury tax by simply swapping cheaper salaries for more expensive salaries, but we're up against the tax too. So, it would have to be an amazing pay off. And keep in mind, they decided to not bother using JR Smith's contract to bring in a late draft pick last year and instead just piled up a bunch of second rounders they'd collected and used them to get back in the draft to take Porter Jr.

If there are enough deals on the table, we could trade an expiring for a cheaper longer salary and a pick from team A then absorb some salary in exchange for a pick from team B. It's just these deals get complicated and other teams can play these games too.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#131 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:So the Hawks are the only team in the NBA currently with cap space and they only have $4M in space. There's a bunch of teams up against the apron and a bunch more up against the tax line. The Mavs, Kings and Knicks really messed up spending all of their available space on middling vets. That space would be an absolute premium right now as tax teams, or near tax teams, need third parties involved to help facilitate deals.

I hope our front office is paying attention. If we can keep $10M or so in space heading into next season, that's definitely something the Cavs should consider.


I suppose that depends what else they have on the table that they can do with the money. We can already help a team up against the luxury tax by simply swapping cheaper salaries for more expensive salaries, but we're up against the tax too. So, it would have to be an amazing pay off. And keep in mind, they decided to not bother using JR Smith's contract to bring in a late draft pick last year and instead just piled up a bunch of second rounders they'd collected and used them to get back in the draft to take Porter Jr.

If there are enough deals on the table, we could trade an expiring for a cheaper longer salary and a pick from team A then absorb some salary in exchange for a pick from team B. It's just these deals get complicated and other teams can play these games too.


Yeah. I'm talking about next season.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#132 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:26 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:So the Hawks are the only team in the NBA currently with cap space and they only have $4M in space. There's a bunch of teams up against the apron and a bunch more up against the tax line. The Mavs, Kings and Knicks really messed up spending all of their available space on middling vets. That space would be an absolute premium right now as tax teams, or near tax teams, need third parties involved to help facilitate deals.

I hope our front office is paying attention. If we can keep $10M or so in space heading into next season, that's definitely something the Cavs should consider.


I suppose that depends what else they have on the table that they can do with the money. We can already help a team up against the luxury tax by simply swapping cheaper salaries for more expensive salaries, but we're up against the tax too. So, it would have to be an amazing pay off. And keep in mind, they decided to not bother using JR Smith's contract to bring in a late draft pick last year and instead just piled up a bunch of second rounders they'd collected and used them to get back in the draft to take Porter Jr.

If there are enough deals on the table, we could trade an expiring for a cheaper longer salary and a pick from team A then absorb some salary in exchange for a pick from team B. It's just these deals get complicated and other teams can play these games too.


Yeah. I'm talking about next season.


Just saying there are games we can play even when we're right up against the luxury tax like we are.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#133 » by jbk1234 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:37 pm

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#134 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:09 pm

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#135 » by Stillwater » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:00 am

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256440/Lakers-Waive-Zach-Norvell-Jr-Sign-Devontae-Cacok-To-Two-Way-Deal
I bet thios could be one of those Danny Green ( who of course is now playing with Lebron in LA) types of things where Norvell turns into a damn solid nba player somewhere else because Lebrons GM made win now moves instead.
I would definitely look at this guy and see what if anything is wrong, because by all accounts he was a damn good college player.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#136 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:09 am

I'm glad to see Clarkson playing well in his first game.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#137 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jan 6, 2020 10:25 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I'm glad to see Clarkson playing well in his first game.


You forgot the /sarcasm ... actually after that initial clunker he's been more Clarksonesque with a couple of good games and a couple of meh games.

That 28 point performance is dragging Exum's averages way up, but as of today, we got the better sixth man in the deal. lol
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#138 » by gflem » Tue Jan 7, 2020 2:28 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm glad to see Clarkson playing well in his first game.


You forgot the /sarcasm ... actually after that initial clunker he's been more Clarksonesque with a couple of good games and a couple of meh games.

That 28 point performance is dragging Exum's averages way up, but as of today, we got the better sixth man in the deal. lol

I think its fools gold with Exum. He has very weak handle for a "PG". He had a very nice game against a terrible defensive team. I hope I'm wrong but I just see an athlete playing ball when I watch him rather than an athletic basketball player.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#139 » by JonFromVA » Tue Jan 7, 2020 5:25 am

gflem wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm glad to see Clarkson playing well in his first game.


You forgot the /sarcasm ... actually after that initial clunker he's been more Clarksonesque with a couple of good games and a couple of meh games.

That 28 point performance is dragging Exum's averages way up, but as of today, we got the better sixth man in the deal. lol

I think its fools gold with Exum. He has very weak handle for a "PG". He had a very nice game against a terrible defensive team. I hope I'm wrong but I just see an athlete playing ball when I watch him rather than an athletic basketball player.


Willing passer with length, athleticism, that can shoot some and play defense are all things we can use even if he never comes close to what some thought he'd become.

I'm happy to see that he can help, it's just that his track record suggests that won't last long before he's out hurt again.

Still... it's the kind of gamble we can afford to make and sometimes seemingly chronic injury problems do stabilize.

In other words I'm not suggesting he's going to be averaging 28 ppg, but he might end up helping us more than Clarkson.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#140 » by jbk1234 » Tue Jan 7, 2020 2:22 pm

gflem wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm glad to see Clarkson playing well in his first game.


You forgot the /sarcasm ... actually after that initial clunker he's been more Clarksonesque with a couple of good games and a couple of meh games.

That 28 point performance is dragging Exum's averages way up, but as of today, we got the better sixth man in the deal. lol

I think its fools gold with Exum. He has very weak handle for a "PG". He had a very nice game against a terrible defensive team. I hope I'm wrong but I just see an athlete playing ball when I watch him rather than an athletic basketball player.


He strikes me as more of a combo-guard/Livingston type. His height allows him to see the floor very well and pass over smaller defenders which can cause havoc with offensive players cutting to the basket.
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