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[Stillwater]

It's never been about whether KPJ can flash talent, it's about whether he can elevate his imitation-Harden routine to the level it starts helping a team ... and of course whether he can control his emotions.

LOL anyone who lives with their emotions stuffed down deep into their body to "look as if" they have no emotional content to offer as if that would be detrimental to life itself...is a not only a stooge that doesn't understand what life is about , but far less likely to have the heart to dedicate themselves at the level of commitment necessary to achieve anything beyond the status quo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with KPJ going off on Altman for moving his locker imo in fact I HATE that we live in a society that pretends being angry about something is a weakness when in fact it is a completely legitimate human response.

Your freedom doesn't come at the price of everyone else's, and for sure not someone paying you to do a job.

thats the problem with the NBA though its not like a normal job where anyone is for the most part easily replaced
and so you cannot treat players like this and expect any respect

[JonFromVA]

LOL anyone who lives with their emotions stuffed down deep into their body to "look as if" they have no emotional content to offer as if that would be detrimental to life itself...is a not only a stooge that doesn't understand what life is about , but far less likely to have the heart to dedicate themselves at the level of commitment necessary to achieve anything beyond the status quo. There is absolutely nothing wrong with KPJ going off on Altman for moving his locker imo in fact I HATE that we live in a society that pretends being angry about something is a weakness when in fact it is a completely legitimate human response.

Your freedom doesn't come at the price of everyone else's, and for sure not someone paying you to do a job.

thats the problem with the NBA though its not like a normal job where anyone is for the most part easily replaced
and so you cannot treat players like this and expect any respect

Which is why they didn't just burn up his contract this Summer for acts detrimental to the team and in violation of the conduct code.

They valued KPJ as a player and a person far more than you have.

[Stillwater]

Your freedom doesn't come at the price of everyone else's, and for sure not someone paying you to do a job.

thats the problem with the NBA though its not like a normal job where anyone is for the most part easily replaced
and so you cannot treat players like this and expect any respect

Which is why they didn't just burn up his contract this Summer for acts detrimental to the team and in violation of the conduct code.

They valued KPJ as a player and a person far more than you have.

You sound like somebody who tries to twist whatever they see in front of them into the proper shape to fit the opening that matches your opinion and then call it a good decision. the reality is imo and anyone who isnt kidding themselves is they didnt do enough to help him stay engaged during the long off season \ who cares what they did to make amends after that when it clearly included things prior to the trade as petty as they may seem to you like moving his locker to the "out the door club section" that were not respectful to him at all not even a little bit

[JonFromVA]

thats the problem with the NBA though its not like a normal job where anyone is for the most part easily replaced
and so you cannot treat players like this and expect any respect

Which is why they didn't just burn up his contract this Summer for acts detrimental to the team and in violation of the conduct code.

They valued KPJ as a player and a person far more than you have.

You sound like somebody who tries to twist whatever they see in front of them into the proper shape to fit the opening that matches your opinion and then call it a good decision. the reality is imo and anyone who isnt kidding themselves is they didnt do enough to help him stay engaged during the long off season \ who cares what they did to make amends after that when it clearly included things prior to the trade as petty as they may seem to you like moving his locker to the "out the door club section" that were not respectful to him at all not even a little bit

Funny coming from you ... but it wasn't me jumping to the conclusion he was under house arrest. That was all you.

[jbk1234]

thats the problem with the NBA though its not like a normal job where anyone is for the most part easily replaced
and so you cannot treat players like this and expect any respect

Which is why they didn't just burn up his contract this Summer for acts detrimental to the team and in violation of the conduct code.

They valued KPJ as a player and a person far more than you have.

You sound like somebody who tries to twist whatever they see in front of them into the proper shape to fit the opening that matches your opinion and then call it a good decision. the reality is imo and anyone who isnt kidding themselves is they didnt do enough to help him stay engaged during the long off season \ who cares what they did to make amends after that when it clearly included things prior to the trade as petty as they may seem to you like moving his locker to the "out the door club section" that were not respectful to him at all not even a little bit

Let's be real clear here, no one posting on this board has any idea what the Cavs did, or did not do, when it comes to KPJ. If you want to speculate, that's your right. But that's all this is, 100% speculation.

More importantly, this isn't a college program. You're paid millions of dollars to play basketball at this level. If you need help, you have the means to pay for counseling. But you have to be willing to accept that help, and none of us know KPJ's mindset in that regard either.


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[Stillwater]

Which is why they didn't just burn up his contract this Summer for acts detrimental to the team and in violation of the conduct code.

They valued KPJ as a player and a person far more than you have.

You sound like somebody who tries to twist whatever they see in front of them into the proper shape to fit the opening that matches your opinion and then call it a good decision. the reality is imo and anyone who isnt kidding themselves is they didnt do enough to help him stay engaged during the long off season \ who cares what they did to make amends after that when it clearly included things prior to the trade as petty as they may seem to you like moving his locker to the "out the door club section" that were not respectful to him at all not even a little bit

Let's be real clear here, no one posting on this board has any idea what the Cavs did, or did not do, when it comes to KPJ. If you want to speculate, that's your right. But that's all this is, 100% speculation.

More importantly, this isn't a college program. You're paid millions of dollars to play basketball at this level. If you need help, you have the means to pay for counseling. But you have to be willing to accept that help, and none of us know KPJ's mindset in that regard either.


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All im really saying at this point is Everyone knew he was a hot head from a bad situation with a lot of baggage that they never should have expected to go away otherwise he doesn't drop to 30th.
Maybe the front office thoughts on it were they could "change him" and what ive heard from them over the time he was here was absolutely nothing but positive pr bs indicator that they dont tell us anything until they have cut loose and washed their pilots hands of someone. Thats a business decision not a righteous one. Yeah we dont know everything but we can see a lot without much effort call it 100% speculation doesn't mean it isnt the correct assessment either.
Personally think most people see something like this happen and just think its all on kpj for not stepping up his life. I say its all on the Cavs for not showing any mature level of forgiveness to prove to him not all big $ businesses are really as bad as he thinks. But its obvious he was right and they are since they shipped him out for a bag of dead nuts

[JonFromVA]

You sound like somebody who tries to twist whatever they see in front of them into the proper shape to fit the opening that matches your opinion and then call it a good decision. the reality is imo and anyone who isnt kidding themselves is they didnt do enough to help him stay engaged during the long off season \ who cares what they did to make amends after that when it clearly included things prior to the trade as petty as they may seem to you like moving his locker to the "out the door club section" that were not respectful to him at all not even a little bit

Let's be real clear here, no one posting on this board has any idea what the Cavs did, or did not do, when it comes to KPJ. If you want to speculate, that's your right. But that's all this is, 100% speculation.

More importantly, this isn't a college program. You're paid millions of dollars to play basketball at this level. If you need help, you have the means to pay for counseling. But you have to be willing to accept that help, and none of us know KPJ's mindset in that regard either.


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All im really saying at this point is Everyone knew he was a hot head from a bad situation with a lot of baggage that they never should have expected to go away otherwise he doesn't drop to 30th.
Maybe the front office thoughts on it were they could "change him" and what ive heard from them over the time he was here was absolutely nothing but positive pr bs indicator that they dont tell us anything until they have cut loose and washed their pilots hands of someone. Thats a business decision not a righteous one. Yeah we dont know everything but we can see a lot without much effort call it 100% speculation doesn't mean it isnt the correct assessment either.
Personally think most people see something like this happen and just think its all on kpj for not stepping up his life. I say its all on the Cavs for not showing any mature level of forgiveness to prove to him not all big $ businesses are really as bad as he thinks. But its obvious he was right and they are since they shipped him out for a bag of dead nuts

Your takes would make more sense if they made any sense.

1) Is KPJ complaining with how he was treated?
2) Is his agent complaining with how he was treated?
3) Are his former teammates complaining with how he was treated?
4) What do the Cavs have to gain by trading him for a 2nd round pick that will never convey?
5) If any of the other 29 GM's in the league thought the Cavs just mismanaged this, why didn't they offer, oh, I don't know ... an actual 2nd round pick?
6) Why would the Cavs bother to share private details of their relationship with a player unless they're forced to, to protect their image?

[Stillwater]

Let's be real clear here, no one posting on this board has any idea what the Cavs did, or did not do, when it comes to KPJ. If you want to speculate, that's your right. But that's all this is, 100% speculation.

More importantly, this isn't a college program. You're paid millions of dollars to play basketball at this level. If you need help, you have the means to pay for counseling. But you have to be willing to accept that help, and none of us know KPJ's mindset in that regard either.


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All im really saying at this point is Everyone knew he was a hot head from a bad situation with a lot of baggage that they never should have expected to go away otherwise he doesn't drop to 30th.
Maybe the front office thoughts on it were they could "change him" and what ive heard from them over the time he was here was absolutely nothing but positive pr bs indicator that they dont tell us anything until they have cut loose and washed their pilots hands of someone. Thats a business decision not a righteous one. Yeah we dont know everything but we can see a lot without much effort call it 100% speculation doesn't mean it isnt the correct assessment either.
Personally think most people see something like this happen and just think its all on kpj for not stepping up his life. I say its all on the Cavs for not showing any mature level of forgiveness to prove to him not all big $ businesses are really as bad as he thinks. But its obvious he was right and they are since they shipped him out for a bag of dead nuts

Your takes would make more sense if they made any sense.

1) Is KPJ complaining with how he was treated?
2) Is his agent complaining with how he was treated?
3) Are his former teammates complaining with how he was treated?
4) What do the Cavs have to gain by trading him for a 2nd round pick that will never convey?
5) If any of the other 29 GM's in the league thought the Cavs just mismanaged this, why didn't they offer, oh, I don't know ... an actual 2nd round pick?
6) Why would the Cavs bother to share private details of their relationship with a player unless they're forced to, to protect their image?

They did exactly what any org would do that cares more about saving face than anything else.
you think too much man

[JonFromVA]

All im really saying at this point is Everyone knew he was a hot head from a bad situation with a lot of baggage that they never should have expected to go away otherwise he doesn't drop to 30th.
Maybe the front office thoughts on it were they could "change him" and what ive heard from them over the time he was here was absolutely nothing but positive pr bs indicator that they dont tell us anything until they have cut loose and washed their pilots hands of someone. Thats a business decision not a righteous one. Yeah we dont know everything but we can see a lot without much effort call it 100% speculation doesn't mean it isnt the correct assessment either.
Personally think most people see something like this happen and just think its all on kpj for not stepping up his life. I say its all on the Cavs for not showing any mature level of forgiveness to prove to him not all big $ businesses are really as bad as he thinks. But its obvious he was right and they are since they shipped him out for a bag of dead nuts

Your takes would make more sense if they made any sense.

1) Is KPJ complaining with how he was treated?
2) Is his agent complaining with how he was treated?
3) Are his former teammates complaining with how he was treated?
4) What do the Cavs have to gain by trading him for a 2nd round pick that will never convey?
5) If any of the other 29 GM's in the league thought the Cavs just mismanaged this, why didn't they offer, oh, I don't know ... an actual 2nd round pick?
6) Why would the Cavs bother to share private details of their relationship with a player unless they're forced to, to protect their image?

They did exactly what any org would do that cares more about saving face than anything else.
you think too much man

I'll grant you the Cavs care about their reputation, but that swings both ways. They care about Kevin, but they also care about how they're perceived by the media, agents, current players, and the new players they just traded for.

However, Porter Jr doesn't have to save face, neither does his agent, Kevin Love sure doesn't have to, and the 29 other GM's have zero interest in whether the Cavs saving face.

So.. again, why are you blaming the Cavs? Simply because Kevin is no longer one? Because you relate to his struggles?

None of that means the Cavs did him dirty.

[jbk1234]

Pelicans look to be figuring it out. I don't think Lonzo is going anywhere.

The Hawks look pretty good too now that they're healthy.

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[jbk1234]

Lavar out there wrecking his kid's career again. That entire interview is just ridiculous.

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[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

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[Stillwater]

The Cavs front offices worst nightmare has begun... https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+scores&oq=nba+scores&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65l2.8938j0j9&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11mp9h23sj;3;/m/05jvx;dt;fp;1;;

[jbk1234]

The Cavs front offices worst nightmare has begun... https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+scores&oq=nba+scores&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65l2.8938j0j9&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11mp9h23sj;3;/m/05jvx;dt;fp;1;;

There was never any question as to whether he had talent. I was at the Heat game last year. Drummond had a couple monster games for us as well.

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[Stillwater]

The Cavs front offices worst nightmare has begun... https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+scores&oq=nba+scores&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65l2.8938j0j9&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11mp9h23sj;3;/m/05jvx;dt;fp;1;;

There was never any question as to whether he had talent. I was at the Heat game last year. Drummond had a couple monster games for us as well.

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The sad truth is KPJ is not having any problems off the court right now, he is showing up and showing out as the lead ball handler on that roster which I has discussions about hoping he could be for this roster last season when I wanted them to bench or trade DG but it seems clear to me they have hitched their wagon to DG being that guy and although is far better than his rookie season they may have capped their ceiling as a roster in doing so. KPJ is way too good of a player to not dismiss for a longer time frame his off court issues in the name of culture building or some other pr line of sht
I'm done complaining about this story on here and tbh half hoped he failed so I could forgive this front office but at this point they should be ashamed of themselves at least half as much as I am ashamed to call myself a fan of the Cavs going forward without organizational changes.

[jbk1234]

The Cavs front offices worst nightmare has begun... https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+scores&oq=nba+scores&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i65l2.8938j0j9&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#sie=m;/g/11mp9h23sj;3;/m/05jvx;dt;fp;1;;

There was never any question as to whether he had talent. I was at the Heat game last year. Drummond had a couple monster games for us as well.

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The sad truth is KPJ is not having any problems off the court right now, he is showing up and showing out as the lead ball handler on that roster which I has discussions about hoping he could be for this roster last season when I wanted them to bench or trade DG but it seems clear to me they have hitched their wagon to DG being that guy and although is far better than his rookie season they may have capped their ceiling as a roster in doing so. KPJ is way too good of a player to not dismiss for a longer time frame his off court issues in the name of culture building or some other pr line of sht
I'm done complaining about this story on here and tbh half hoped he failed so I could forgive this front office but at this point they should be ashamed of themselves at least half as much as I am ashamed to call myself a fan of the Cavs going forward without organizational changes.

There's so much wrong it what you just wrote here, but so long as you're really done complaining about it, I'll leave it alone.

[Stillwater]

There was never any question as to whether he had talent. I was at the Heat game last year. Drummond had a couple monster games for us as well.

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The sad truth is KPJ is not having any problems off the court right now, he is showing up and showing out as the lead ball handler on that roster which I has discussions about hoping he could be for this roster last season when I wanted them to bench or trade DG but it seems clear to me they have hitched their wagon to DG being that guy and although is far better than his rookie season they may have capped their ceiling as a roster in doing so. KPJ is way too good of a player to not dismiss for a longer time frame his off court issues in the name of culture building or some other pr line of sht
I'm done complaining about this story on here and tbh half hoped he failed so I could forgive this front office but at this point they should be ashamed of themselves at least half as much as I am ashamed to call myself a fan of the Cavs going forward without organizational changes.

There's so much wrong it what you just wrote here, but so long as you're really done complaining about it, I'll leave it alone.

You dont have to agree with me , but there is plenty of justification with being mad at the front office of the Cavs for giving up on such a talented player regardless of if you agree or disagree with whether or not they were right or wrong in how they handled it or if you agree or disagree they had other options.
Obviously there are several facts not speculations to consider but these key ones that cannot be disputed; 1 he is a legit NBA starter 2. He was drafted by the Cavs and 2b now plays for another roster and 2c they got nothing in return for him.
Anything after that is miniscule in relevance as it pertains to the situation or the who what why speculation complaints I have had.

[jbk1234]

The sad truth is KPJ is not having any problems off the court right now, he is showing up and showing out as the lead ball handler on that roster which I has discussions about hoping he could be for this roster last season when I wanted them to bench or trade DG but it seems clear to me they have hitched their wagon to DG being that guy and although is far better than his rookie season they may have capped their ceiling as a roster in doing so. KPJ is way too good of a player to not dismiss for a longer time frame his off court issues in the name of culture building or some other pr line of sht
I'm done complaining about this story on here and tbh half hoped he failed so I could forgive this front office but at this point they should be ashamed of themselves at least half as much as I am ashamed to call myself a fan of the Cavs going forward without organizational changes.

There's so much wrong it what you just wrote here, but so long as you're really done complaining about it, I'll leave it alone.

You dont have to agree with me , but there is plenty of justification with being mad at the front office of the Cavs for giving up on such a talented player regardless of if you agree or disagree with whether or not they were right or wrong in how they handled it or if you agree or disagree they had other options.
Obviously there are several facts not speculations to consider but these key ones that cannot be disputed; 1 he is a legit NBA starter 2. He was drafted by the Cavs and 2b now plays for another roster and 2c they got nothing in return for him.
Anything after that is miniscule in relevance as it pertains to the situation or the who what why speculation complaints I have had.

I agree with 2, but not necessarily 1. I don't necessarily disagree with 1, but it's beyond a really small sample size. If KPJ goes on to have a great career, then you'll be correct in terms of who the Cavs gave up on, but it's a game in the last third of the season, against a really bad team.

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[JonFromVA]

There's so much wrong it what you just wrote here, but so long as you're really done complaining about it, I'll leave it alone.

You dont have to agree with me , but there is plenty of justification with being mad at the front office of the Cavs for giving up on such a talented player regardless of if you agree or disagree with whether or not they were right or wrong in how they handled it or if you agree or disagree they had other options.
Obviously there are several facts not speculations to consider but these key ones that cannot be disputed; 1 he is a legit NBA starter 2. He was drafted by the Cavs and 2b now plays for another roster and 2c they got nothing in return for him.
Anything after that is miniscule in relevance as it pertains to the situation or the who what why speculation complaints I have had.

I agree with 2, but not necessarily 1. I don't necessarily disagree with 1, but it's beyond a really small sample size. If KPJ goes on to have a great career, then you'll be correct in terms of who the Cavs gave up on, but it's a game in the last third of the season, against a really bad team.

Which he followed up with a 5 for 17 performance (-16) in a loss to the Grizzlies.

Even as a young player James Harden was very efficient, in fact that was the biggest indicator that he might become what he did when the Thunder traded for him. KPJ's TS%, otoh, is actually lower in Houston than it was in Cleveland because he continues to be very inconsistent.

A lot of fans wish Garland was more aggressive, but when it inevitably leads to big swings in performance, it's not what's best for the team and the other players on the team.

As for KPJ's value? That was verified by the 29 other teams who didn't believe he was worth more than a protected second round pick.

We didn't give him up for nothing, he was worth nothing.

[Stillwater]

You dont have to agree with me , but there is plenty of justification with being mad at the front office of the Cavs for giving up on such a talented player regardless of if you agree or disagree with whether or not they were right or wrong in how they handled it or if you agree or disagree they had other options.
Obviously there are several facts not speculations to consider but these key ones that cannot be disputed; 1 he is a legit NBA starter 2. He was drafted by the Cavs and 2b now plays for another roster and 2c they got nothing in return for him.
Anything after that is miniscule in relevance as it pertains to the situation or the who what why speculation complaints I have had.

I agree with 2, but not necessarily 1. I don't necessarily disagree with 1, but it's beyond a really small sample size. If KPJ goes on to have a great career, then you'll be correct in terms of who the Cavs gave up on, but it's a game in the last third of the season, against a really bad team.

Which he followed up with a 5 for 17 performance (-16) in a loss to the Grizzlies.

Even as a young player James Harden was very efficient, in fact that was the biggest indicator that he might become what he did when the Thunder traded for him. KPJ's TS%, otoh, is actually lower in Houston than it was in Cleveland because he continues to be very inconsistent.

A lot of fans wish Garland was more aggressive, but when it inevitably leads to big swings in performance, it's not what's best for the team and the other players on the team.

As for KPJ's value? That was verified by the 29 other teams who didn't believe he was worth more than a protected second round pick.

We didn't give him up for nothing, he was worth nothing.

False
they DID give him up for what the market demanded was nothing of value because they couldn't keep it in house, they failed to do their job and any more of this DG is good garbage from you is going to make my head explode.
DG sucks Okoro sucks and right now in the past several games Sexton sucks too.
[deleted by mod]

Stillwater, if this is how you're going to talk about it, then you should've stuck with your first instinct and not talked about it anymore. I'm done locking threads every time this subject comes up. It's warnings from here on out.

Not for nothing, but one of the reasons everything couldn't be kept in house is because police reports are public record and flipping a car over on your way out to Youngstown at 3:00 a.m. is newsworthy. Social media posts where a player intimates that he's contemplating suicide are, by definition, public. None of us know for sure what additional issues there may have been that were kept in house and that we don't know about.

But it's happened. It's over. There's no undoing it. Raging on this board isn't going to change it.

If you're so angry with the team over KPJ, Sexton and Garland, that you don't want to root for them anymore, you don't have to. Take a break. Pick another team to watch and root for to finish out the season. It might do you some good.