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Around the NBA

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#481 » by jbk1234 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 1:58 am

KuruptedCav wrote:Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Everyone else seems to want their very own Kevin Love contract…


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Multiple K. Love contracts. Ainge's best moment was looking at his roster, looking at the Heat's, and pulling the trigger.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#482 » by jbk1234 » Tue Aug 3, 2021 11:21 pm

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#483 » by KuruptedCav » Wed Aug 4, 2021 6:31 pm

John Collins not taking $125/5 makes me happier with Allen agreeing to $100/5 on day one.


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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#484 » by mcfly1204 » Sat Aug 7, 2021 10:17 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:John Collins not taking $125/5 makes me happier with Allen agreeing to $100/5 on day one.


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With how fickle the league has become, Allen is likely going to look like a steal in a year or two.
Well at least we're not Detroit!
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#485 » by jbk1234 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:01 pm

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#486 » by Harper4Ferry? » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:05 pm

Kevin Love won’t give up $20 to leave town.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#487 » by jbk1234 » Mon Aug 9, 2021 8:13 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Kevin Love won’t give up $20 to leave town.


No, but he might actually report in shape now that the Griffin and Walker benchmarks are out there.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#488 » by Harper4Ferry? » Mon Aug 9, 2021 11:21 pm

I'm thinking a KLove buyout will be like the Joakim Noah one a few years back. Maybe we can talk him into giving up about 5 million(slightly more than the veterans minimum times 2) so that he can choose where he wants to play next season and the following. He can just stay home and skip training camp, etc. Once this season has started, you do the buyout. The 2022-23 cap hit can either be taken as $26.4 million(his salary minus 2.5million) -or- it can be stretched as 8.814 million on the 22-23/23-24/24-25 caps. If we aren't extending Sexton we can actually have a decent chunk of cap space next summer so stretching out for one summer to maximize the room makes sense. If we're planning on trading sexton for players with longer contracts or extending him, taking all the Love poison in 1 year makes the most sense.

Also, if Osman is terrible again, he could also be stretch waived next summer to open up 5 million more in space.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#489 » by jbk1234 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:49 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I'm thinking a KLove buyout will be like the Joakim Noah one a few years back. Maybe we can talk him into giving up about 5 million(slightly more than the veterans minimum times 2) so that he can choose where he wants to play next season and the following. He can just stay home and skip training camp, etc. Once this season has started, you do the buyout. The 2022-23 cap hit can either be taken as $26.4 million(his salary minus 2.5million) -or- it can be stretched as 8.814 million on the 22-23/23-24/24-25 caps. If we aren't extending Sexton we can actually have a decent chunk of cap space next summer so stretching out for one summer to maximize the room makes sense. If we're planning on trading sexton for players with longer contracts or extending him, taking all the Love poison in 1 year makes the most sense.

Also, if Osman is terrible again, he could also be stretch waived next summer to open up 5 million more in space.
I mean Love will either be worthless off the bench, or not. But if he can actually provide shooting/spacing/defensive rebounding, that's far, far more valuable than $5M in cap space added to an MLE that we can't presently get anyone to play for.

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#490 » by toooskies » Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:16 pm

Terry Rozier getting 4y/$97m may have an impact on Sexton's possible future deal.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#491 » by Revenged25 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:53 pm

toooskies wrote:Terry Rozier getting 4y/$97m may have an impact on Sexton's possible future deal.


Probably sets the minimum contract that Sexton will get now.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#492 » by JonFromVA » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:02 pm

toooskies wrote:Terry Rozier getting 4y/$97m may have an impact on Sexton's possible future deal.


That's actually a max deal for Rozier. I'm not sure what Charlotte is thinking after drafting Ball and Bouknight, but maybe they think he will be tradable at that number?
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#493 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:13 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:Terry Rozier getting 4y/$97m may have an impact on Sexton's possible future deal.


That's actually a max deal for Rozier. I'm not sure what Charlotte is thinking after drafting Ball and Bouknight, but maybe they think he will be tradable at that number?

This is part of the problem with your thinking about contracts... it is not about Charlotte fit ,it is about what Rozier is valued at as a player anywhere in the NBA + some extra to get him to stay there and do his job. There is a significant failure by many fans it seems these days to understand how hard it is to score in the league all alone. Rozier like Sexton is one of those handful that can get that done consistently and so this is a fair amount not a max for Rozier even though its all he could get smh
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#494 » by JonFromVA » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:37 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:Terry Rozier getting 4y/$97m may have an impact on Sexton's possible future deal.


That's actually a max deal for Rozier. I'm not sure what Charlotte is thinking after drafting Ball and Bouknight, but maybe they think he will be tradable at that number?

This is part of the problem with your thinking about contracts... it is not about Charlotte fit ,it is about what Rozier is valued at as a player anywhere in the NBA + some extra to get him to stay there and do his job. There is a significant failure by many fans it seems these days to understand how hard it is to score in the league all alone. Rozier like Sexton is one of those handful that can get that done consistently and so this is a fair amount not a max for Rozier even though its all he could get smh


Mitch Kupchak and Michael Jordan showing us all how it's done?

Is that what you're suggesting? :roll:

Unlike Sexton, Rozier would have been an unrestricted free agent next year, so he didn't risk having his market artificially restricted like Collin does if he overplayed his hand.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#495 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:17 pm

Terry Rozier was making sure he didn't get the Schroeder treatment.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#496 » by KuruptedCav » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:27 am

People will soon catch on that $25mil/yr is no longer a high salary. It’ll be 1/6 of the luxury tax and 1/5 of the salary cap soon enough. As those numbers continue to climb and the gap between cap & tax grows, it’s going to get interesting.


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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#497 » by jbk1234 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:14 pm

KuruptedCav wrote:People will soon catch on that $25mil/yr is no longer a high salary. It’ll be 1/6 of the luxury tax and 1/5 of the salary cap soon enough. As those numbers continue to climb and the gap between cap & tax grows, it’s going to get interesting.


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Don't get it twisted. It's a high salary for a guy who isn't that good. Folks aren't banging down Sacramento's door to trade for Hield and he actually makes less than that.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#498 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:00 pm

If someone wants to project the league cap and the Cavs commitments to our core out over the next 5 years or so, I'd be glad to entertain a theory that paying everyone $25/mil plus is feasible ... but short of that I'm going to keep on believing we need a mix of players at different salary levels to have a chance at keeping this core together.

So that's why I feel Sexton at $20M gives us some flexibility, but if he's at $25M? My thought is someone else had better be willing to take $5M less.

Also keep in the max extension varies ... for instance, Luka's supermax is going to average $41.4M

His first bump up will put him at $35.7M in 2022/2023 when the cap is expected to be $119M, or 30% of the cap.

Ayton on the other hand is eligible for $33.6M average and could get $28 in 2022/2023 or 23.5% of the cap.

The difference is, teams like Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix can at least see how they can win games and contend with Luka, Trae, and Deandre. We're still in the dark with our core and the bills are coming due.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#499 » by jbk1234 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:If someone wants to project the league cap and the Cavs commitments to our core out over the next 5 years or so, I'd be glad to entertain a theory that paying everyone $25/mil plus is feasible ... but short of that I'm going to keep on believing we need a mix of players at different salary levels to have a chance at keeping this core together.

So that's why I feel Sexton at $20M gives us some flexibility, but if he's at $25M? My thought is someone else had better be willing to take $5M less.

Also keep in the max extension varies ... for instance, Luka's supermax is going to average $41.4M

His first bump up will put him at $35.7M in 2022/2023 when the cap is expected to be $119M, or 30% of the cap.

Ayton on the other hand is eligible for $33.6M average and could get $28 in 2022/2023 or 23.5% of the cap.

The difference is, teams like Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix can at least see how they can win games and contend with Luka, Trae, and Deandre. We're still in the dark with our core and the bills are coming due.
I mean we can just see what Sexton does in year 4 now that it's been made pretty clear that the league has priced in his *areas for improvement.*

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#500 » by KuruptedCav » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:45 pm

JonFromVA wrote:If someone wants to project the league cap and the Cavs commitments to our core out over the next 5 years or so, I'd be glad to entertain a theory that paying everyone $25/mil plus is feasible ... but short of that I'm going to keep on believing we need a mix of players at different salary levels to have a chance at keeping this core together.

So that's why I feel Sexton at $20M gives us some flexibility, but if he's at $25M? My thought is someone else had better be willing to take $5M less.

Also keep in the max extension varies ... for instance, Luka's supermax is going to average $41.4M

His first bump up will put him at $35.7M in 2022/2023 when the cap is expected to be $119M, or 30% of the cap.

Ayton on the other hand is eligible for $33.6M average and could get $28 in 2022/2023 or 23.5% of the cap.

The difference is, teams like Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix can at least see how they can win games and contend with Luka, Trae, and Deandre. We're still in the dark with our core and the bills are coming due.

I’ll do three years, beyond gets highly speculative with assumptions we could debate for days.
2022 Cap: $119million/Lux: $145million
2023 Cap: $124million/Lux: $153million
2024 Cap: $129million/Lux: $160million

For 2022: for 10 players: Love, Allen, Nance Jr., Osman, Mobley, Garland, Windler, Wade, Kabengele, Stevens the Cavs are at $100,079358

Add in the draft pick ($5 million, they will still be bad) and NTMLE $10 million and they are $4 million under the cap.

If they add Sexton at $25million, and two minimum roster players, that brings the total to $143million; $24 million over the cap and $2 million under the luxury tax.

I assume Sexton 4/$100 at $25/yr; NTMLE player signs 3 years and $32 million.

For 2023/24: for 7 players Allen, Mobley Okoro, Sexton, Stevens, 2022 FRP, 2022 NTMLE $80,484,236.

If Garland is extended at Maximum, $31 million, 2023 Draft Pick (assuming still bad $5mil), NTMLE ($10mil);

That’s 10 players for $126,484,236
Extend Nance at $10mil/yr (2-3 years), BAE @ $3.918,600 brings them to $140,402,836 for the top-12 roster spots. $16 million over the cap and $13 million below the Luxury tax.

For 2024/25: 10 players,Allen, Garland, Sexton, Mobley, Nance Jr., 2022 FRP, 2023 FRP, 2022 NTMLE, 2023 NTMLE, account for $132,112,809. Add the 2024 FRP for $136 mil for 10 players.

With $24 million below the tax, the question becomes whether to sign a NTMLE player and extend Okoro which likely pushes them into the Luxury tax; or sign Okor and use part of the MLE to stay under the cap on the top-13; filling the roster with minimum players.

In 2025 The Allen decision comes due, and Sexton is a $25 million expiring (if Okoro earns his own max and Sexton doesn’t develop) as Mobley’s extension comes due.

A lot of assumptions, so I went with MLE values and top-10 draft pick expenses to be conservative.


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