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[JonFromVA]

Any talk of Markkanen exceeding expectations in Utah isn't really fair without noting that Mitchell has also exceeded expectations. Mitchell's increase in WS/48 is nearly twice as large as Markkanen's, year-over-year. And the jump from all-star to all-NBA or MVP candidate is a bigger jump (and more valuable) than that from starter to borderline all-star.

We didn't trade for a fourth star. We traded for a guy who has come in as the team's best player and might be graduating to the superstar tier.

Seems really odd to take like 12% of the return from one side of a trade and compare it to 100% of the return from the other side of the trade.

Well, OK. Sexton is near his expected value, Agbaji is at or below his expected value, and the draft picks probably project to lower value. So the gap is wider if you include the change in value of the other assets.

And if Mitchell keeps playing anywhere near his current level, the only thing of equivalent value would be another superstar. Some fan bases would trade away their entire team and all their picks for that kind of player.

Of course, it's unrealistic to expect a player to continue playing at a rate no player has ever sustained for a full season; but still this trade is not about who we gave up, but what we do with what we've got.

[JujitsuFlip]

Any talk of Markkanen exceeding expectations in Utah isn't really fair without noting that Mitchell has also exceeded expectations. Mitchell's increase in WS/48 is nearly twice as large as Markkanen's, year-over-year. And the jump from all-star to all-NBA or MVP candidate is a bigger jump (and more valuable) than that from starter to borderline all-star.

We didn't trade for a fourth star. We traded for a guy who has come in as the team's best player and might be graduating to the superstar tier.

Seems really odd to take like 12% of the return from one side of a trade and compare it to 100% of the return from the other side of the trade.

Well, OK. Sexton is near his expected value, Agbaji is at or below his expected value, and the draft picks probably project to lower value. So the gap is wider if you include the change in value of the other assets.

I'll give ya Sexton but he's 23 and has a 4 year deal so I doubt he's 100% written off.

Abaji I will not give you at all, he's a rookie who played a couple NBA games, he's not at all at peak value.

The picks that are 4, 5, 6, and 7 years out I'm for sure not giving you, Cavs could be back in the pooper by the time those picks roll around.

[toooskies]

Seems really odd to take like 12% of the return from one side of a trade and compare it to 100% of the return from the other side of the trade.

Well, OK. Sexton is near his expected value, Agbaji is at or below his expected value, and the draft picks probably project to lower value. So the gap is wider if you include the change in value of the other assets.

I'll give ya Sexton but he's 23 and has a 4 year deal so I doubt he's 100% written off.

Abaji I will not give you at all, he's a rookie who played a couple NBA games, he's not at all at peak value.

The picks that are 4, 5, 6, and 7 years out I'm for sure not giving you, Cavs could be back in the pooper by the time those picks roll around.

I'm not writing the value of anything off. I'm just saying the values of the other pieces in the trade have changed slightly in the Cavs' favor. (They certainly haven't changed significantly against the Cavs, like you could say about Markkanen.)

a) the best-case outcome for Agbaji (the day he was traded) was that he's ready to be a major contributor at the NBA level on day 1, and should have plenty of opportunity on a tanking team. So far we're 8 games into Utah's season, he's played about 60 minutes, and he hasn't made a 3-pointer yet. With the absolute best-case outcome off the table, his value should be lower. Not significantly so, but a little bit.

b) The upside on the picks 4+ years from now is higher if Mitchell isn't on the team in 4 years. At the time of the trade, Mitchell was perceived as a risky acquisition for anyone besides the Knicks. However, I think he's more likely to be on the team on his next contract than on the day we made the trade-- he's a chemistry fit, he's playing well, he's buying into the team. Obviously there's a lot that's going to happen between now and his eventual free agency, but some worst-case scenarios of poor fit/effort/buy-in are off the table.

That's not to say that the value of Agbaji or Sexton or those picks can't be high-- I'm one of the bigger Sexton stans on the board-- I'm just saying that Markkanen is the only piece that's changed significantly in a positive direction for Utah. And Mitchell has outperformed his expectations more than Markkanen has.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, OK. Sexton is near his expected value, Agbaji is at or below his expected value, and the draft picks probably project to lower value. So the gap is wider if you include the change in value of the other assets.

I'll give ya Sexton but he's 23 and has a 4 year deal so I doubt he's 100% written off.

Abaji I will not give you at all, he's a rookie who played a couple NBA games, he's not at all at peak value.

The picks that are 4, 5, 6, and 7 years out I'm for sure not giving you, Cavs could be back in the pooper by the time those picks roll around.

I'm not writing the value of anything off. I'm just saying the values of the other pieces in the trade have changed slightly in the Cavs' favor. (They certainly haven't changed significantly against the Cavs, like you could say about Markkanen.)

a) the best-case outcome for Agbaji (the day he was traded) was that he's ready to be a major contributor at the NBA level on day 1, and should have plenty of opportunity on a tanking team. So far we're 8 games into Utah's season, he's played about 60 minutes, and he hasn't made a 3-pointer yet. With the absolute best-case outcome off the table, his value should be lower. Not significantly so, but a little bit.

b) The upside on the picks 4+ years from now is higher if Mitchell isn't on the team in 4 years. At the time of the trade, Mitchell was perceived as a risky acquisition for anyone besides the Knicks. However, I think he's more likely to be on the team on his next contract than on the day we made the trade-- he's a chemistry fit, he's playing well, he's buying into the team. Obviously there's a lot that's going to happen between now and his eventual free agency, but some worst-case scenarios of poor fit/effort/buy-in are off the table.

That's not to say that the value of Agbaji or Sexton or those picks can't be high-- I'm one of the bigger Sexton stans on the board-- I'm just saying that Markkanen is the only piece that's changed significantly in a positive direction for Utah. And Mitchell has outperformed his expectations more than Markkanen has.

Well, thankfully the final value and judgment won't be had 8 games into the first season, for either side.

[JonFromVA]

Well, OK. Sexton is near his expected value, Agbaji is at or below his expected value, and the draft picks probably project to lower value. So the gap is wider if you include the change in value of the other assets.

I'll give ya Sexton but he's 23 and has a 4 year deal so I doubt he's 100% written off.

Abaji I will not give you at all, he's a rookie who played a couple NBA games, he's not at all at peak value.

The picks that are 4, 5, 6, and 7 years out I'm for sure not giving you, Cavs could be back in the pooper by the time those picks roll around.

I'm not writing the value of anything off. I'm just saying the values of the other pieces in the trade have changed slightly in the Cavs' favor. (They certainly haven't changed significantly against the Cavs, like you could say about Markkanen.)

a) the best-case outcome for Agbaji (the day he was traded) was that he's ready to be a major contributor at the NBA level on day 1, and should have plenty of opportunity on a tanking team. So far we're 8 games into Utah's season, he's played about 60 minutes, and he hasn't made a 3-pointer yet. With the absolute best-case outcome off the table, his value should be lower. Not significantly so, but a little bit.

b) The upside on the picks 4+ years from now is higher if Mitchell isn't on the team in 4 years. At the time of the trade, Mitchell was perceived as a risky acquisition for anyone besides the Knicks. However, I think he's more likely to be on the team on his next contract than on the day we made the trade-- he's a chemistry fit, he's playing well, he's buying into the team. Obviously there's a lot that's going to happen between now and his eventual free agency, but some worst-case scenarios of poor fit/effort/buy-in are off the table.

That's not to say that the value of Agbaji or Sexton or those picks can't be high-- I'm one of the bigger Sexton stans on the board-- I'm just saying that Markkanen is the only piece that's changed significantly in a positive direction for Utah. And Mitchell has outperformed his expectations more than Markkanen has.

I read something that indicated that years in the NCAA doesn't necessarily improve a player's NBA readiness (in the one and done era). The learning curve is steep and whatever advantage they may have in experience is negated by the fact they no longer have that advantage over their peers.

In other words, draft position is likely a better indicator of readiness.

[JujitsuFlip]

Jazz #1 in the West, this guy is straight ballin'!

[jbk1234]

OPJ being out for the season basically makes him a name brand Windler.

[JujitsuFlip]

OPJ being out for the season basically makes him a name brand Windler.

Hahaha at least he got a ring and the sole large extension from the Wizards. He can fade off into the sunset now.

[jbk1234]

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For all those who thought Altman was too hard on KPJ.

[JonFromVA]

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For all those who thought Altman was too hard on KPJ.

Has that person's ban from the site expired yet?

[jbk1234]

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For all those who thought Altman was too hard on KPJ.

Has that person's ban from the site expired yet?

As far as I know, it was indefinite.

[jbk1234]

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Lol

[mcfly1204]

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Lol

Seconded... Crowder isn't worth **** at this point.

[jbk1234]

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Lol

Seconded... Crowder isn't worth **** at this point.

Jones and Weaver are just clowning themselves at this point.

[JujitsuFlip]

Congrats to Markkanen on his first All-Star nod, well deserved, ballin' out this season.

[jbk1234]

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[jbk1234]

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[JonFromVA]

There's a rumor afloat this morning that the Nets just didn't want to do anything to make Irving happy, like send him to the Lakers - which makes perfect sense; however - it's not like Russ and 1 or 2 first rounders from them has all that much value. The Lakers are one team that doesn't have to hit rock bottom if they can just manage their salary cap and use it wisely in free-agency - and why would they want any more drama - like adding Westbrook?

[toooskies]

Not quite at the deadline yet, but disappointed that 2nds seemed to be able to get guys like Jalen McDaniels, Mike Muscala, Thomas Bryant and we're sitting on our hands.

[jbk1234]

Not quite at the deadline yet, but disappointed that 2nds seemed to be able to get guys like Jalen McDaniels, Mike Muscala, Thomas Bryant and we're sitting on our hands.

McDaniels I agree with, although Hornets got their own second back which probably tilted it.

The other two guys are very meh.