Kyrie asked to be traded (UPDATED)

Stillwater · Post #261 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:55 pm

Not talking to team mates during the playoffs in between series that were sweeps with a lot of days off, means absolutely nothing.
I don't talk to people sometimes for a week that I have known my entire life, does that mean I am an immature pos? no, just got nothing to say sometimes as familiarity really does breed contempt.
If it does mean something, unless that was out of the normal range of expectation from him during any stretch of time off, then I would go on to agree with the assertion that it means whatever differences the Cav's even beyond the players have with each other were not anything new too them, and would not be nearly as much of an issue with KI in training camp post the trade request as most of the media and other teams would have us believe. I am sure JJ knows this, if he is the one that said it, unless of course him and Lebron had a falling out and he is sticking it to the Cav's or trying too. the latter is much less likely as they are close, but not so close that they haven't gone for long stretches of time not talking to each other.

Post #262 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:38 pm

skywalker33 wrote:What bothers me from a DEN perspective is the lack of team chemistry and immaturity Kyrie is displaying, He's gone on record saying he wants to be "THE MAN" and that he doesn't want to play Robin to LBJ's Batman. In DEN we already have Jokic and acquiring him would easily stunt further development by the Joker, something I don't see a problem happening while keeping Murray and Harris (which many of you seeing as what DEN would have to trade to get KI, good luck with that). Furthermore, hearing Irving wouldn't even speak to his teammates throughout the playoffs sounds like something a 5-yr old would do, totally immature. It just feels like he would disrupt our team chemistry more than what he would bring back with talent. Please, send him to PHX and leave DEN out of you trade proposals, he's not worth it to the Nuggets IMO

Kyrie is better at playing off the ball, due to LBJ, but if we're being honest, he doesn't like to consistently defer. His value is really in the 4th quarter or post season when defenses tighten up and his elite scoring ability overcomes good defenses. So that's really the trade off. But teams that don't have a go-to one-on-one scorer lose a lot of close games in the 4th quarter during the regular season and are usually sent home early in the playoffs. I don't know that Denver currently has that guy on the roster.

Post #263 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:54 pm

Read on Twitter

Don't ever change Dion.

skywalker33 · Post #264 » by **skywalker33** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:05 pm

jbk1234 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don't ever change Dion.

Just a LOT of lip action there :lol:

skywalker33 · Post #265 » by **skywalker33** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:What bothers me from a DEN perspective is the lack of team chemistry and immaturity Kyrie is displaying, He's gone on record saying he wants to be "THE MAN" and that he doesn't want to play Robin to LBJ's Batman. In DEN we already have Jokic and acquiring him would easily stunt further development by the Joker, something I don't see a problem happening while keeping Murray and Harris (which many of you seeing as what DEN would have to trade to get KI, good luck with that). Furthermore, hearing Irving wouldn't even speak to his teammates throughout the playoffs sounds like something a 5-yr old would do, totally immature. It just feels like he would disrupt our team chemistry more than what he would bring back with talent. Please, send him to PHX and leave DEN out of you trade proposals, he's not worth it to the Nuggets IMO

Kyrie is better at playing off the ball, due to LBJ, but if we're being honest, he doesn't like to consistently defer. His value is really in the 4th quarter or post season when defenses tighten up and his elite scoring ability overcomes good defenses. So that's really the trade off. But teams that don't have a go-to one-on-one scorer lose a lot of close games in the 4th quarter during the regular season and are usually sent home early in the playoffs. I don't know that Denver currently has that guy on the roster.

Definitely a lot of truth there, but when does that line of "consistently deferring" get crossed and who is the one crossing ?? Kyrie is/wants to be the alpha even if he ISN'T the best player on the court, that's a HUGE ego which can (has already ?) break down team chemistry. The Nuggets want to build team chemistry and I feel it would be affected on our team, something I really don't see as beneficial. Now I can see Irving bringing butts back into the seats at Pepsi Center, that's the part the FO wants/needs and may make a deal for him. I just not sure that is enough GOOD reasons for the team going forward.

Post #266 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:13 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don't ever change Dion.

Just a LOT of lip action there

Huh?

Dupp · Post #267 » by **Dupp** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:22 pm

He wants to kiss dion I believe

skywalker33 · Post #268 » by **skywalker33** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:22 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Don't ever change Dion.

Just a LOT of lip action there

Huh?

Dion spouting that HE's an Alpha ..... :crazy:

Post #269 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:27 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:

Just a LOT of lip action there

Huh?

Dion spouting that HE's an Alpha .....

Thanks for the clarification.

That's why I always thought sending Kyrie to Miami was a really bad idea unless they already had another trade lined up for Dion. Dion & Kyrie should not be on the same team again.

gflem · Post #270 » by **gflem** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Huh?

Dion spouting that HE's an Alpha .....

Thanks for the clarification.

That's why I always thought sending Kyrie to Miami was a really bad idea unless they already had another trade lined up for Dion. Dion & Kyrie should not be on the same team again.

That would be an epic twist of fate if they did. Wouldn't put it past Dan just to be spiteful. Not likely though.

Stillwater · Post #271 » by **Stillwater** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:47 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:What bothers me from a DEN perspective is the lack of team chemistry and immaturity Kyrie is displaying, He's gone on record saying he wants to be "THE MAN" and that he doesn't want to play Robin to LBJ's Batman. In DEN we already have Jokic and acquiring him would easily stunt further development by the Joker, something I don't see a problem happening while keeping Murray and Harris (which many of you seeing as what DEN would have to trade to get KI, good luck with that). Furthermore, hearing Irving wouldn't even speak to his teammates throughout the playoffs sounds like something a 5-yr old would do, totally immature. It just feels like he would disrupt our team chemistry more than what he would bring back with talent. Please, send him to PHX and leave DEN out of you trade proposals, he's not worth it to the Nuggets IMO

Kyrie is better at playing off the ball, due to LBJ, but if we're being honest, he doesn't like to consistently defer. His value is really in the 4th quarter or post season when defenses tighten up and his elite scoring ability overcomes good defenses. So that's really the trade off. But teams that don't have a go-to one-on-one scorer lose a lot of close games in the 4th quarter during the regular season and are usually sent home early in the playoffs. I don't know that Denver currently has that guy on the roster.

Definitely a lot of truth there, but when does that line of "consistently deferring" get crossed and who is the one crossing ?? Kyrie is/wants to be the alpha even if he ISN'T the best player on the court, that's a HUGE ego which can (has already ?) break down team chemistry. The Nuggets want to build team chemistry and I feel it would be affected on our team, something I really don't see as beneficial. Now I can see Irving bringing butts back into the seats at Pepsi Center, that's the part the FO wants/needs and may make a deal for him. I just not sure that is enough GOOD reasons for the team going forward.

I believe he mostly just wants the ball in his hands in the clutch moments every time as opposed to all of the time.
He doesn't want to be playing with other Closers or with other elite players that don't defer to him in those situations even though he is arguably the best or at the least top 3 finisher/Closer type players in the modern era. Lebron dribbling at the top of the Key as time runs down, is not going to be the case in Denver, it would definitely be Irving, who along with Jokic could play exceptionally well off of each other, also think Jokic would more likely defer to KI in those situations, and would be right to do so.

skywalker33 · Post #272 » by **skywalker33** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:01 pm

Stillwater wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Kyrie is better at playing off the ball, due to LBJ, but if we're being honest, he doesn't like to consistently defer. His value is really in the 4th quarter or post season when defenses tighten up and his elite scoring ability overcomes good defenses. So that's really the trade off. But teams that don't have a go-to one-on-one scorer lose a lot of close games in the 4th quarter during the regular season and are usually sent home early in the playoffs. I don't know that Denver currently has that guy on the roster.

Definitely a lot of truth there, but when does that line of "consistently deferring" get crossed and who is the one crossing ?? Kyrie is/wants to be the alpha even if he ISN'T the best player on the court, that's a HUGE ego which can (has already ?) break down team chemistry. The Nuggets want to build team chemistry and I feel it would be affected on our team, something I really don't see as beneficial. Now I can see Irving bringing butts back into the seats at Pepsi Center, that's the part the FO wants/needs and may make a deal for him. I just not sure that is enough GOOD reasons for the team going forward.

I believe he mostly just wants the ball in his hands in the clutch moments every time as opposed to all of the time.
He doesn't want to be playing with other Closers or with other elite players that don't defer to him in those situations even though he is arguably the best or at the least top 3 finisher/Closer type players in the modern era. Lebron dribbling at the top of the Key as time runs down, is not going to be the case in Denver, it would definitely be Irving, who along with Jokic could play exceptionally well off of each other, also think Jokic would more likely defer to KI in those situations, and would be right to do so.

Still would rather keep our current core for the future rather than trade for a 2-yr rental, It IS a shame he doesn't see a future there in CLE, the East is really in a lot of chaos leaving the spoils to BOS of all markets :banghead:

Post #273 » by **jbk1234** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:01 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Definitely a lot of truth there, but when does that line of "consistently deferring" get crossed and who is the one crossing ?? Kyrie is/wants to be the alpha even if he ISN'T the best player on the court, that's a HUGE ego which can (has already ?) break down team chemistry. The Nuggets want to build team chemistry and I feel it would be affected on our team, something I really don't see as beneficial. Now I can see Irving bringing butts back into the seats at Pepsi Center, that's the part the FO wants/needs and may make a deal for him. I just not sure that is enough GOOD reasons for the team going forward.

I believe he mostly just wants the ball in his hands in the clutch moments every time as opposed to all of the time.
He doesn't want to be playing with other Closers or with other elite players that don't defer to him in those situations even though he is arguably the best or at the least top 3 finisher/Closer type players in the modern era. Lebron dribbling at the top of the Key as time runs down, is not going to be the case in Denver, it would definitely be Irving, who along with Jokic could play exceptionally well off of each other, also think Jokic would more likely defer to KI in those situations, and would be right to do so.

Still would rather keep our current core for the future rather than trade for a 2-yr rental, It IS a shame he doesn't see a future there in CLE, the East is really in a lot of chaos leaving the spoils to BOS of all markets

I get not wanting to do a specific trade. I don't get not wanting to trade for a star *b/c he might be a 2-year rental.* Is a star going to sign a deal & demand a trade immediately afterwards? If you want to trade for a star, that's the risk you run. Kyrie is only two-years into his current deal. He actually has a PO in the third year.

skywalker33 · Post #274 » by **skywalker33** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I believe he mostly just wants the ball in his hands in the clutch moments every time as opposed to all of the time.
He doesn't want to be playing with other Closers or with other elite players that don't defer to him in those situations even though he is arguably the best or at the least top 3 finisher/Closer type players in the modern era. Lebron dribbling at the top of the Key as time runs down, is not going to be the case in Denver, it would definitely be Irving, who along with Jokic could play exceptionally well off of each other, also think Jokic would more likely defer to KI in those situations, and would be right to do so.

Still would rather keep our current core for the future rather than trade for a 2-yr rental, It IS a shame he doesn't see a future there in CLE, the East is really in a lot of chaos leaving the spoils to BOS of all markets

I get not wanting to do a specific trade. I don't get not wanting to trade for a star *b/c he might be a 2-year rental.* Is a star going to sign a deal & demand a trade immediately afterwards? If you want to trade for a star, that's the risk you run. Kyrie is only two-years into his current deal. He actually has a PO in the third year.

Well, as you point out, he is under contract for two-three more years and yet you're looking to trade him, very similar uncertainty there IMO. You aren't obligated to trade him yet the uncertainty is forcing a move because every day he remains, your value diminishes.

Also, Murray looks to have really good potential (close to Kyrie IMO ) yet we have him under contract control for more than 2-3 years, since we're not going to see our current core reach their prime until the W''s are exiting theirs I'd like to keep what we have in tact. Also, while not said directly, I get the feeling Kyrie will opt out if for nothing else than for a bigger contract, putting himself out there for the highest bidder.

Stillwater · Post #275 » by **Stillwater** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:47 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Still would rather keep our current core for the future rather than trade for a 2-yr rental, It IS a shame he doesn't see a future there in CLE, the East is really in a lot of chaos leaving the spoils to BOS of all markets

I get not wanting to do a specific trade. I don't get not wanting to trade for a star *b/c he might be a 2-year rental.* Is a star going to sign a deal & demand a trade immediately afterwards? If you want to trade for a star, that's the risk you run. Kyrie is only two-years into his current deal. He actually has a PO in the third year.

Well, as you point out, he is under contract for two-three more years and yet you're looking to trade him, very similar uncertainty there IMO. You aren't obligated to trade him yet the uncertainty is forcing a move because every day he remains, your value diminishes.

Also, Murray looks to have really good potential (close to Kyrie IMO ) yet we have him under contract control for more than 2-3 years, since we're not going to see our current core reach their prime until the W''s are exiting theirs I'd like to keep what we have in tact. Also, while not said directly, I get the feeling Kyrie will opt out if for nothing else than for a bigger contract, putting himself out there for the highest bidder.

He will opt out and he will get paid, that is undisputed imo. The only issue with your hope that they stay the course is that they already have begun to press fast forward to compete with GSW by signing Milsap, so it would not surprise me if KI was worth more to them than planning for post GSW dominance.

skywalker33 · Post #276 » by **skywalker33** » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:01 am

Stillwater wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I get not wanting to do a specific trade. I don't get not wanting to trade for a star *b/c he might be a 2-year rental.* Is a star going to sign a deal & demand a trade immediately afterwards? If you want to trade for a star, that's the risk you run. Kyrie is only two-years into his current deal. He actually has a PO in the third year.

Well, as you point out, he is under contract for two-three more years and yet you're looking to trade him, very similar uncertainty there IMO. You aren't obligated to trade him yet the uncertainty is forcing a move because every day he remains, your value diminishes.

Also, Murray looks to have really good potential (close to Kyrie IMO ) yet we have him under contract control for more than 2-3 years, since we're not going to see our current core reach their prime until the W''s are exiting theirs I'd like to keep what we have in tact. Also, while not said directly, I get the feeling Kyrie will opt out if for nothing else than for a bigger contract, putting himself out there for the highest bidder.

He will opt out and he will get paid, that is undisputed imo. The only issue with your hope that they stay the course is that they already have begun to press fast forward to compete with GSW by signing Milsap, so it would not surprise me if KI was worth more to them than planning for post GSW dominance.

Well, we have enough signings in the near future with Harris, Jokic and perhaps even Barton (if he's still here) don't really need another. Good point bringing up Milsap, however, I believe he was brought in to take that NEXT step, not the next three steps. He was also brought in to show how interior defense is played and to add toughness and rim-protection. I also think adding Kyrie would be trying to skip those extra steps which really hasn't been beneficial to many teams, usually ends up setting those teams back.

I also think what CLE (or at least it's fans...no disrespect) are asking in return is a bit steep, especially given what Butler and PG13 went for in the current market. I'd give PHX a call, Bledsoe would be a better fit IMO

Alatan · Post #277 » by **Alatan** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:32 pm

I like Kyrie as a player but not in Denver. He would be forced to play their style of play with ball movement centered around Jokic and i doubt he would like it considering he wants to leave Cle because he doesnt have the ball as much as he wants. That means either him or Jokic would lose production and the chemistry would die. Denver also has Murray who IMO has great scoring potential and fits in Denver much better than Kyrie. Murray is also on a rookie contract and considering the signing of Milsap to 30 mill a year and the extension of Jokic (and Harris if he doesnt get traded in this deal) i doubt Denver has much cap space to bring Kyrie and further improve their roster. So adding Kyrie would be an improvement in talent (even as i have high hopes for Murray) but it would kill team chemistry and there would be no room for improvement of roster witch would certainly lead to Kyrie leaving. Looks like a hard pass to me.

Stillwater · Post #278 » by **Stillwater** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:10 pm

^^ that might be true to some extent. Denver isn't getting KI anyway without giving up Murray imo.
I think the wanting the ball in his hands, is not so much the issue as having to defer to a better scoring option
where despite Jokic being the focal point & the anchor is not a better scoring option than KI.
Denver is a long shot for a lot of reasons really, even if he wouldn't like it there, I don't think that would stop them from finding out.
Denver is a pretty good team on the edge of becoming really good, adding KI would do that over night, I disagree it would mess up team chemistry, as your main issue imo is inexperience in the back court.

skywalker33 · Post #279 » by **skywalker33** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:39 pm

With the recent sit-down between LBJ and Irving, is there a feeling of calmness on the trade front ? Sure would love to see one more run for the Cavs ( while keeping the C's down :evil:

)

Post #280 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:55 pm

skywalker33 wrote:With the recent sit-down between LBJ and Irving, is there a feeling of calmness on the trade front ? Sure would love to see one more run for the Cavs ( while keeping the C's down )

I would've put the odds at Kyrie staying at around 20/80 when this process started but I think it's about 40/60 now.