Post mortem (grading the trade)

[Dupp]

Defense got better not worse. We needed a wing defender to help on KD and that's what we got. Kyrie and IT are the same.

[jbk1234]

Defense got better not worse. We needed a wing defender to help on KD and that's what we got. Kyrie and IT are the same.

That's a fantasy unless the officials decide to swallow their whistles for the series. Durant shot over LBJ, he'll have no problem shooting over Crowder. IT is a worse defender than Kyrie. Hard to imagine but it's true and inarguable if you've watched his teams in the post season.

[Dupp]

Durant shooting over people is not the problem. He had a free path to the rim all series.

He didn't really though. People had good position on him and he shot over them at the rim. If you go back and watch the tape, there weren't a lot of dunks.

[Stillwater]

odds of stopping KD are slim regardless of who you have on your roster if Lue doesn't use them.
I think DWill2 could have gave him some problems but did we see him at all? No.
Liggins could have also made a big difference as another big time defender had he not been cut in favor of the DJones signing (which did absolutely nothing for us).
Hopefully we are no longer going to try to outscore teams that are that efficient offensively. We need to be top 5 defensively imo to beat GSW in a 7 game series as long as we are close to as good as we have been past 3 seasons offensively.

[bmurph128]

Defense got better not worse. We needed a wing defender to help on KD and that's what we got. Kyrie and IT are the same.

That's a fantasy unless the officials decide to swallow their whistles for the series. Durant shot over LBJ, he'll have no problem shooting over Crowder. IT is a worse defender than Kyrie. Hard to imagine but it's true and inarguable if you've watched his teams in the post season.

I'll gladly make the Warriors into a jump shooting team. That's how we beat them.

Last year KD and Curry got the FT line at a ridiculous rate. That coupled with our transition defense is why we lost.

I'm a fan of not starting a PG at all with our current lineup. But I'm hoping we can trade for Delly. Either way, this:

LBJ/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson

is better than our starting lineup in the finals last year. Even this variation:

IT/JR/Crowder/LeBron/Love

is better. And you're forgetting the difference between IT and Kyrie - IT actually tries on defense. That will help the overall scheme even though the Warriors would go at him every play. And if LeBron is on Draymond, he can help.

Trade was an A for me.

[jbk1234]

Defense got better not worse. We needed a wing defender to help on KD and that's what we got. Kyrie and IT are the same.

That's a fantasy unless the officials decide to swallow their whistles for the series. Durant shot over LBJ, he'll have no problem shooting over Crowder. IT is a worse defender than Kyrie. Hard to imagine but it's true and inarguable if you've watched his teams in the post season.

I'll gladly make the Warriors into a jump shooting team. That's how we beat them.

Last year KD and Curry got the FT line at a ridiculous rate. That coupled with our transition defense is why we lost.

I'm a fan of not starting a PG at all with our current lineup. But I'm hoping we can trade for Delly. Either way, this:

LBJ/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson

is better than our starting lineup in the finals last year. Even this variation:

IT/JR/Crowder/LeBron/Love

is better. And you're forgetting the difference between IT and Kyrie - IT actually tries on defense. That will help the overall scheme even though the Warriors would go at him every play. And if LeBron is on Draymond, he can help.

Trade was an A for me.

The problem is that you can't stick with that game plan when they're draining threes. It's easy to say that until they hit four or five threes in a row. Once they get hot, you've got to run them off the line. It's like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until you've been punched in the face.

[bwgood77]

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/report-isaiah-thomas-could-be-out-until-all-star-break
now it comes out , of course.No surprise for me.

The "Athletic.com"? I don't think I'd take anything for certain.

[jbk1234]

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/report-isaiah-thomas-could-be-out-until-all-star-break
now it comes out , of course.No surprise for me.

The "Athletic.com"? I don't think I'd take anything for certain.

That's Jason Lloyd's start up. He was a great beat reporter for the Cavs for decades. He's a very reliable source (much to the chagrin of the Cavs F.O. at times). It's actually an interesting idea - a subscription based outlet that's well sourced and not dependent upon some of the political calculations that editors who constantly fret over access have to worry about. The goal is to get good journalists from every NBA city to start writing columns. I'm not sure the business model is viable though. There are only so many die hard fans willing to pay for exclusive content.

[bmurph128]

That's a fantasy unless the officials decide to swallow their whistles for the series. Durant shot over LBJ, he'll have no problem shooting over Crowder. IT is a worse defender than Kyrie. Hard to imagine but it's true and inarguable if you've watched his teams in the post season.

I'll gladly make the Warriors into a jump shooting team. That's how we beat them.

Last year KD and Curry got the FT line at a ridiculous rate. That coupled with our transition defense is why we lost.

I'm a fan of not starting a PG at all with our current lineup. But I'm hoping we can trade for Delly. Either way, this:

LBJ/JR/Crowder/Love/Thompson

is better than our starting lineup in the finals last year. Even this variation:

IT/JR/Crowder/LeBron/Love

is better. And you're forgetting the difference between IT and Kyrie - IT actually tries on defense. That will help the overall scheme even though the Warriors would go at him every play. And if LeBron is on Draymond, he can help.

Trade was an A for me.

The problem is that you can't stick with that game plan when they're draining threes. It's easy to say that until they hit four or five threes in a row. Once they get hot, you've got to run them off the line. It's like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until you've been punched in the face.

They wouldn't be left open, but the best your defense can do is force Curry and KD to shoot contested 3s.

Durant is near 7 feet tall - nobody in the world has ever been able to really guard him, and yet he only has one championship to his game. Curry is supposedly this unicorn, that only won a title because Kyrie and Love got hurt. These guys can be beaten. But it's hard to beat any team when you let them run free to the rim and let two players get to the FT line 20 times a game.

If we play sound defense (higher chance without Kyrie), and stay in front of them (higher chance without Kyrie), we just have to execute on offense and we can play with them.

That's the most concerning part for me right now, because Love has been so inconsistent against the Warriors offensively. If he can average 25/game in the finals, I like our chances.

I think we can work IT into the game, and it reminds me of what Warriors fans said when we first started playing them:

"Who are you going to have Kyrie guard?"

Me: "Harrison Barnes"

"He'll just back him down all game"

Me: "If your offense is going to consist of Harrison Barnes backing somebody down, I'll take it"

If IT is in the game guarding Iguodala and they start going to Iguodala on every play, is that really worse than KD? Considering that nobody can guard him?

All we need to do to be competitive is form a defensive identity this year and focus on it.

[gflem]

I am not opposed to sending Durant and Curry to the line "20 times a game" as you say, but lets get our guys to make them feel every foul, not waive at them and get a whistle as they go virtually uncontested to the rim. I hope Crowder can at least give us that. IT is too small for that unless he just outright trips people.
Grade C plus until I see IT on the court looking like he did last year, and if he doesn't get to that point more like a D.

[Dupp]

Durant literally strolled to the rim unguarded 20+ times through the series and every time he drove on RJ it was a layup drill.

Having crowder as an option will help. No one can stop KD but no other superstar in NBA history had it as KD last finals. No one.

[Baller1234a]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20595342/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-guard-isaiah-thomas-faces-uncertain-return-potentially-career-ending-hip-injury

[Stillwater]

^^ my expectation was this almost exactly throughout the entire week of KI trade hold re-negotiation etc.
Of course no Boston fan would admit it,because they all apparently think Danny Ainge is a genius for getting rid of their injured player ,despite the fact that he is clearly looking a lot like what most people would consider a lying two faced career killing narcissist who did more to damage Isaiah Thomas' career ,paying off Physicians brought in to lie to IT4 (since they technically could not make a negative prognosis without doing the arthroscopic) to replace the docs who told the Celtics he needed surgery , which directly is related to the intentional misdiagnosis of their all star so as to fill seats until he was out for the season which they figured would be the case, but hoped he would get through the ECF before they eventually lost to Cleveland as they also expected,and it would not make the news. Things didn't go smoothly there, because IT4 was out before the ECF were over. Ainge continued his lying to cover up his injury significance using tests with non conclusive information (once again cannot be conclusive until surgery is done)that is open to speculation and plausible deniability to leave a positive outlook in the mind of any potential trade partner like Cleveland, who despite reportedly knew everything & eventually got another 2nd rounder for their concerns, when they discovered they did not. BUT absolutely should not have done this deal if they really did have conclusive information which I highly doubt given no surgery has been performed & what I suspected all along: he is far worse in the timeline and long term prognosis without surgery having played through it for 6 months & the longer he waits to have it it will get worse if it hasn't been pushed beyond repair already. He definitely was destroying the tear more playing from December to March thinking it was something else,then playing more until the collapse in May. all Bostons fault, and all something they continue to pretend they were transparent about.
Altman or Gilbert never would have agreed to take a chance on him had they had all of the information which is beginning to look a lot more sketchy than even a pushed back return without surgery, He may not be good even if he does now,but that cannot be determined until he has the arthroscopic , so for Cavs he is not a reliable asset even if he does come back to full playing strength as it will likely be short lived and possibly the ending to his time in the league,thanks to misdiagnosis, false diagnosis and him being too stubborn to accept the truth in a contract year.

[Dupp]

I’mma just say this here, point-blank, to get it over with — and then you can go ahead and post it on whatever bulletin boards you want to: You are not going to want to mess with the Cavs this year. This is going to be a great year to be a Cavs fan, a great year. And I’m excited.

“From a basketball perspective, me on the Cavs is a match made in heaven. If you’ve watched any Celtics games last year, then you know how many times I would have to go through double and even triple teams, just to get my shot off. It ended up working fine for us — guys played great, and my shot was falling. But this year … man, it’s not even going to be a thing. You really going to throw three guys on me, when I’m sharing a court with the best basketball player on the planet? Nah, I don’t think so.”

oh yes

[jbk1234]

I’mma just say this here, point-blank, to get it over with — and then you can go ahead and post it on whatever bulletin boards you want to: You are not going to want to mess with the Cavs this year. This is going to be a great year to be a Cavs fan, a great year. And I’m excited.

“From a basketball perspective, me on the Cavs is a match made in heaven. If you’ve watched any Celtics games last year, then you know how many times I would have to go through double and even triple teams, just to get my shot off. It ended up working fine for us — guys played great, and my shot was falling. But this year … man, it’s not even going to be a thing. You really going to throw three guys on me, when I’m sharing a court with the best basketball player on the planet? Nah, I don’t think so.”

oh yes

IT has an awesome attitude but that doesn't change the reality that he's injured and real defensive liability in the playoffs.

[Stillwater]

I doubt anything will come of it, but I would really like to see Ainge put out to pasture for this entire mess. It probably won't happen for 5 years if it does.
Maybe IT4 will defy the odds ,I hope he does, but no matter how you look at it, we still need at minimum a better defensive guard that can play off Lebron ,best case is one that can run the offense when Lebron is not on the floor or free Lebron up to impact the game differently as needed. IT4 probably given his situation will be even worse defensively which could make him virtually unplayable against starting units in the playoffs.

[Baller1234a]

I doubt anything will come of it, but I would really like to see Ainge put out to pasture for this entire mess. It probably won't happen for 5 years if it does.
Maybe IT4 will defy the odds ,I hope he does, but no matter how you look at it, we still need at minimum a better defensive guard that can play off Lebron ,best case is one that can run the offense when Lebron is not on the floor or free Lebron up to impact the game differently as needed. IT4 probably given his situation will be even worse defensively which could make him virtually unplayable against starting units in the playoffs.

You really hate ainge

[Stillwater]

I doubt anything will come of it, but I would really like to see Ainge put out to pasture for this entire mess. It probably won't happen for 5 years if it does.
Maybe IT4 will defy the odds ,I hope he does, but no matter how you look at it, we still need at minimum a better defensive guard that can play off Lebron ,best case is one that can run the offense when Lebron is not on the floor or free Lebron up to impact the game differently as needed. IT4 probably given his situation will be even worse defensively which could make him virtually unplayable against starting units in the playoffs.

You really hate ainge

naw he seems cool, just don't like how he twists everything to fit his agenda.
some people think they can do whatever they want, but it's only true if you let it be.

[afarmenian]

I don't know how people watched this past finals and can worry about IT4's defense being worse than Kyrie. He was horrendous on defense. Curry got to where he wanted when he wanted. The defense literally could not have been worse and you add in the lack of ball movement and the 1v1 shots that didn't go in the first two finals games. So what are we worried about? Maybe It4 will at least make an effort to get around screens. If he can do that he will be better than Kyrie on D.

You also have to factor in that you can't hide a players defense if you need him on offense. In other words the Celtics had no choice but to play him 4 quarters no matter what. Who else was going to make plays on that team? If its that bad of a matchup the Cavs don't need a point guard on the floor. This is where having a player like Crowder comes in handy. Smith Korver Lebron Crowder TT can win you games in the fourth quarter

People keep saying Crowder on Durant Crowder on Durant. Hello...this isn't about Durant. Crowder will help with Curry. The Cavs gameplay is always switch the PF onto Curry. Well its a good strategy if you have a forward that can move his feet and make things difficult. Not saying he will shut him down but I feel a lot better with Crowder switching onto a guard than Thompson or Love. That alone should make this team better. Crowder is here to do what we wish RJ could do more. When they go small with RJ sometimes they look like a different team but RJ isn't the same player he was and i think you will get that from Crowder along with some toughness.

This team is going to be interesting. Look Rose and IT4 are not good defenders. The rest of the team however might be evolving into a fast break, 3 and D impossible to matchup with team. It might not work with injuries being a huge factor here but i see the vision. Who knows we still might get Wade. Wade off the bench would be an asset I don't care what anyone says. Wade posting up backup guards is something i would love to see.

[Baller1234a]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/8/16276550/isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-update-arthritis-cartilage-cavs-celtics-kyrie-irving-trade?utm_campaign=sbnation.social&utm_content=sbnation&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter