Shumpert as the starting PG

[Stillwater]

SHUMPERT came into the league playing the point,his struggled with decision making early in his career and was moved to the off guard spot since then for the most part in NY and here.
He has been utilized in Cleveland a few times "by committee" at the PG spot as Lue is confident in using him there when there is enough spacing with a sg like J.R. or Korver and now Crowder available as well.
I think he can handle the job given his improved shooting from 3(despite not hitting them well in the playoffs coming off the bench).
he played well last season in a starting role for J.R. when J.R. was out,hitting his 3's at a very solid rate.
I think the bottom line with Shumpert is he is much more capable of running the point and defending the position as a starter with our starters on the floor creating the proper spacing to let him maximize his mid range game and shut down opposing pg's than he is as a reserve sg.
I think it would be smart for Lue to do this to start the season with Rose running the 2nd unit as I think Shumperts outside shot and ability to play off Lebron are greater than Rose's style of play.
When It4 returns that could all change,but may be the Cav's are a better balanced and complete 2-way team with
starting:
pg Shump
sg J.R.or Crowder
sf Lebron or Crowder
pf Lebron or Love
c Love or Thompson
bench rotation:
It4/Rose backup pg
Korver/Wade/Osman backup sg's
depending on roster construction the backup 3's are up in the air. RJ/Green
Thompson as they key big off the bench at 4 or 5 with Zizic also logging minutes at both positions.
Tavares/Holland ltd use
Osman could easily push RJ and Green out of the rotation

[jbk1234]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

[Stillwater]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

That is probably the direction Lue will go ,after Rose fails to play well off Lebron, but I don't agree with it.
I think Shumpert is undervalued by most Cav's fans despite some recognizing his defensive ability.
I think it would be completely justified to give him the starting 1 spot against teams like the Wizards with Wall or Griz with Conley.
I wouldn't expect he would actually start all season, but I would start him at the beginning of the season let the others do their iso magic against 2nd units and insert them for more offense as needed with the starters in a progressive rotation.
Or we can just use Shump as the back up pg instead of the backup sg provided Korver is out there with him for spacing,
and the first unit isn't getting killed by opposing guards.

[jbk1234]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

That is probably the direction Lue will go ,after Rose fails to play well off Lebron, but I don't agree with it.
I think Shumpert is undervalued by most Cav's fans despite some recognizing his defensive ability.
I think it would be completely justified to give him the starting 1 spot against teams like the Wizards with Wall or Griz with Conley.
I wouldn't expect he would actually start all season, but I would start him at the beginning of the season let the others do their iso magic against 2nd units and insert them for more offense as needed with the starters in a progressive rotation.
Or we can just use Shump as the back up pg instead of the backup sg provided Korver is out there with him for spacing,
and the first unit isn't getting killed by opposing guards.

It's not that I don't think starting Shump could work (you'd have to send TT to the bench and start Crowder instead), it's that I don't think Rose and Wade can play together off the bench. Start Wade next to LBJ/JR and bring Rose of the bench. If Wade's D is trash, try Rose. If Rose's D is trash, then you've got to have a difficult conversation with one of them.

[Stillwater]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

That is probably the direction Lue will go ,after Rose fails to play well off Lebron, but I don't agree with it.
I think Shumpert is undervalued by most Cav's fans despite some recognizing his defensive ability.
I think it would be completely justified to give him the starting 1 spot against teams like the Wizards with Wall or Griz with Conley.
I wouldn't expect he would actually start all season, but I would start him at the beginning of the season let the others do their iso magic against 2nd units and insert them for more offense as needed with the starters in a progressive rotation.
Or we can just use Shump as the back up pg instead of the backup sg provided Korver is out there with him for spacing,
and the first unit isn't getting killed by opposing guards.

It's not that I don't think starting Shump could work (you'd have to send TT to the bench and start Crowder instead), it's that I don't think Rose and Wade can play together off the bench. Start Wade next to LBJ/JR and bring Rose of the bench. If Wade's D is trash, try Rose. If Rose's D is trash, then you've got to have a difficult conversation with one of them.

Yeah my fear is Rose and Wade in the starting line up, I hear you.

[gflem]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

That is probably the direction Lue will go ,after Rose fails to play well off Lebron, but I don't agree with it.
I think Shumpert is undervalued by most Cav's fans despite some recognizing his defensive ability.
I think it would be completely justified to give him the starting 1 spot against teams like the Wizards with Wall or Griz with Conley.
I wouldn't expect he would actually start all season, but I would start him at the beginning of the season let the others do their iso magic against 2nd units and insert them for more offense as needed with the starters in a progressive rotation.
Or we can just use Shump as the back up pg instead of the backup sg provided Korver is out there with him for spacing,
and the first unit isn't getting killed by opposing guards.

It's not that I don't think starting Shump could work (you'd have to send TT to the bench and start Crowder instead), it's that I don't think Rose and Wade can play together off the bench. Start Wade next to LBJ/JR and bring Rose of the bench. If Wade's D is trash, try Rose. If Rose's D is trash, then you've got to have a difficult conversation with one of them.

I think Shump is moved if at all possible, not that I am for that but he would seem to be the odd man out. As for him playing PG I don't think his handles are anywhere near good enough. I know, Lebron can bring the ball up but teams will try to prevent that and make him work that much harder to be the main ball handler with the starting unit. Do we really want that from game one?
I agree that Rose and Wade both off the bench may not be a good pairing, which is why I stated yesterday that I think Wade should start at PG until IT is fully healthy (or as close as possible).
I think Wade and Rose could work together with Korver and either Love or Frye along with Lebron or Crowder on the floor, the spacing would be good enough for two slashers/iso players. D in that lineup, that's another story.

[Dupp]

I think shumps a lot closer to falling out of the rotation than starting.

His defense is actually terrible. He doesn't try in the reg season and he's a stupid stupid player. Least JR tried and does good stuff to offset the bad. Shump only plays decent defense in the playoffs.

[Trailbreaker]

Even in the playoffs I remember Shumpert trying to do too much with iso-ball, which I believe is not really his strong suit.

[Stillwater]

Lot of good points, but when you consider the lack of defensive ability at the 1 , Lue will have very little choice but to sacrifice offensive efficiency by overworking J.R. and Crowder, and Wade if he plays enough. Shumpert is not a starting caliber offensive player on a team that doesn't have spacing,we have it and he is an upgrade defensively to IT4 and Rose for certain. It really doesn't matter that he has bad handles as 1 person noted, but anyone suggesting he is a terrible defender,might want to recheck who he is asked to defend and consider the fact that it is almost always the opposing teams toughest player to defend. So if he is a terrible defender why is that exactly? the fact is he could easily defend 90% of the pg's in this league and with 1 of J.R.,Crowder and to a lesser extent Wade at the 2 in the backcourt with him we would have a reasonably solid defensive back court for games when Lebron and Love are the first and 2nd option scorers and said sg's are the 3rd option.The only other option is to try to outscore everyone again,which doesn't work against high scoring solid defensive teams.Something has got to give.

[cool007]

People here really think D-Rose is a bad defender? He may not be a lock down defender but he is not that bad either.

His defense was close to elite back in 2011 and 2012 before getting hurt. When he did come back after that, Bulls had Pau Gasol, who is the pathetic defender (other than blocking shots inside) you can find in the NBA. Teams ran pick and roll with involving Rose and Gasol and Gasol was soooooooooooooooo slow and would give like 10ft of space to the other PG, which made look Rose worse on D than he actually is.

Then he went to NY and now plug in Porzingis who is just as bad as Gasol in pick and roll.

Rose was at his best in any kind of defense when paired with Noah/Taj. Rose's 1-on-1 defense is one of the better at PG spot you can find in the NBA. I really think you would be pleased with his defense other than maybe pick and roll (depending on who it is with him Thompson or Love).

[donaldtrump_00]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

See this is why i hate cavs fans. Disrespect to rose. Yall rather start iman shumpert over rose. Then take it a step further and say start wade at pg. I guess rose just waits for wade to rest dnp just to get a oppurtunity to come off the bench. I pray this all blows up in yall face. Yall raped the celtics for crowder and it.yall set for next year in the draft. Got wade and rose for the vet min. Im a chi fan and love rose. But i hate lebron more then i love rose. I hope he demands a trade. As for wade i appreiate him coming to chi. But this time its not his fault.

[Dupp]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

See this is why i hate cavs fans. Disrespect to rose. Yall rather start iman shumpert over rose. Then take it a step further and say start wade at pg. I guess rose just waits for wade to rest dnp just to get a oppurtunity to come off the bench. I pray this all blows up in yall face. Yall raped the celtics for crowder and it.yall set for next year in the draft. Got wade and rose for the vet min. Im a chi fan and love rose. But i hate lebron more then i love rose. I hope he demands a trade. As for wade i appreiate him coming to chi. But this time its not his fault.

Rose sucks.

[Dupp]

Speaking of lineups sounds we're considering starting love at centre. Thank ****. Finals showed that's or best move.

IT/JR/Goat/Crowder/Love... great lineup

[Stillwater]

I'd save Shump for the second unit unless or until IT is ready to play. Just play Wade at the 1 when LBJ is on the court.

See this is why i hate cavs fans. Disrespect to rose. Yall rather start iman shumpert over rose. Then take it a step further and say start wade at pg. I guess rose just waits for wade to rest dnp just to get a oppurtunity to come off the bench. I pray this all blows up in yall face. Yall raped the celtics for crowder and it.yall set for next year in the draft. Got wade and rose for the vet min. Im a chi fan and love rose. But i hate lebron more then i love rose. I hope he demands a trade. As for wade i appreiate him coming to chi. But this time its not his fault.

Rose will start , he apparently has earned it.
Rose signed with Cleveland to be the backup pg, a lot has changed since then and with the new line up options that Lue has, it won't matter who is starting or finishing. All that will matter is proper line up compliments,proper spacing etc. Rose can start as long as J.R. is on the floor with him/ same with Wade starting at the 1. bench spacers likely Korver/ Shumpert etc. Shumpert could easily start by committee in the same situation,with Lebron running the main ball handling duty leaving shump to guard 1's as he would be better defensively against them than Rose or Wade,and shump can play off lebron knocking down outside shots spacing the floor for him . despite not being the same kind of basket attack player as Rose,Wade,Lebron etc.

[johnnyballgame]

I've heard it all now. Starting Iman Shumpert on a team with real championship aspirations. Over many time all-stars, former MVPs, more talented, higher iq players and quite simply - players held in high regard by Lebron. Might as well ask LeBron to waive his no trade clause and send him somewhere else if the team is coached that way.

The rumors that Shumpert can play defense are far over shadowed by the fact that he is so maddeningly inconsistent on both ends of the floor. You're valuing his defense as if its game changing and that is a complete falsification of the truth. He's just as much of a one way player as any of these guys, but with the sometimes caveat of being a no way player.

LeBron values basketball iq as much as anything. Lue obviously likes to know what to expect from a guy as he glued Shumpert to the bench more and more as the season moved forward and mattered more and the team was far, far less deep then.
The team is also not going to treat players like Wade and Rose who sacrificed personally to come here that way. Not for Iman Shumpert. They'll need more players to make that sacrifice in the future.
They weren't trying to deal Shumpert earlier because they were getting something in return. They were trying to move him because they realize they absolutely do not have much use for him. Crowder is the defensive stopper Shumpert never could be. The fact that he and his salary are still here is an indication that he's just not that good and no other team wants him either.

I know homers over value their own teams players but Cavs fans have thought far too much of Shump and even JR since they got here confusing their 'availability' with their 'desirability'. The awful Knicks had grown tired of their inconsistency. They were simply all the Cavs could afford at the time. The Cavs are much better than the Knicks and much better than when these guys were first acquired. Neither of these guys should be starting. Shumpert in particular is good at nothing.
Its true the team isn't full of great individual defenders, but they will play much better team defense this year with the addition of Crowder and higher iq players. With Crowder actually slowing a main threat instead of Shumpert getting called for a reach in at the worst moments the other defenders will even have a much easier time with their responsibilities and how to focus their attention. The defense won't be great until they get a true interior presence though.

[afarmenian]

I've heard it all now. Starting Iman Shumpert on a team with real championship aspirations. Over many time all-stars, former MVPs, more talented, higher iq players and quite simply - players held in high regard by Lebron. Might as well ask LeBron to waive his no trade clause and send him somewhere else if the team is coached that way.

The rumors that Shumpert can play defense are far over shadowed by the fact that he is so maddeningly inconsistent on both ends of the floor. You're valuing his defense as if its game changing and that is a complete falsification of the truth. He's just as much of a one way player as any of these guys, but with the sometimes caveat of being a no way player.

LeBron values basketball iq as much as anything. Lue obviously likes to know what to expect from a guy as he glued Shumpert to the bench more and more as the season moved forward and mattered more and the team was far, far less deep then.
The team is also not going to treat players like Wade and Rose who sacrificed personally to come here that way. Not for Iman Shumpert. They'll need more players to make that sacrifice in the future.
They weren't trying to deal Shumpert earlier because they were getting something in return. They were trying to move him because they realize they absolutely do not have much use for him. Crowder is the defensive stopper Shumpert never could be. The fact that he and his salary are still here is an indication that he's just not that good and no other team wants him either.

I know homers over value their own teams players but Cavs fans have thought far too much of Shump and even JR since they got here confusing their 'availability' with their 'desirability'. The awful Knicks had grown tired of their inconsistency. They were simply all the Cavs could afford at the time. The Cavs are much better than the Knicks and much better than when these guys were first acquired. Neither of these guys should be starting. Shumpert in particular is good at nothing.
Its true the team isn't full of great individual defenders, but they will play much better team defense this year with the addition of Crowder and higher iq players. With Crowder actually slowing a main threat instead of Shumpert getting called for a reach in at the worst moments the other defenders will even have a much easier time with their responsibilities and how to focus their attention. The defense won't be great until they get a true interior presence though.

I am inclined to agree with just about all of this. Shump shows flashes and probably could be even a starting player on other younger teams but his role here be a versatile wing off the bench that can hit the open 3 and really pester other players and you just dont get any of that consistently. He is far too erratic to be counted on for major minutes against the other elite teams. People that talk trash about Rose and Wade need to remember they players they are replacing. We need to stop this ridiculous comments like these guys are supposed to make us worse compared to having Deron Williams? Mike Dunleavy Jordan McRae Kay Feilder its really starting to boggle my mind. Yeah i will take my chances with Derrick Rose over Deron and Wade over Shump.

[Stillwater]

I've heard it all now. Starting Iman Shumpert on a team with real championship aspirations. Over many time all-stars, former MVPs, more talented, higher iq players and quite simply - players held in high regard by Lebron. Might as well ask LeBron to waive his no trade clause and send him somewhere else if the team is coached that way.

The rumors that Shumpert can play defense are far over shadowed by the fact that he is so maddeningly inconsistent on both ends of the floor. You're valuing his defense as if its game changing and that is a complete falsification of the truth. He's just as much of a one way player as any of these guys, but with the sometimes caveat of being a no way player.

LeBron values basketball iq as much as anything. Lue obviously likes to know what to expect from a guy as he glued Shumpert to the bench more and more as the season moved forward and mattered more and the team was far, far less deep then.
The team is also not going to treat players like Wade and Rose who sacrificed personally to come here that way. Not for Iman Shumpert. They'll need more players to make that sacrifice in the future.
They weren't trying to deal Shumpert earlier because they were getting something in return. They were trying to move him because they realize they absolutely do not have much use for him. Crowder is the defensive stopper Shumpert never could be. The fact that he and his salary are still here is an indication that he's just not that good and no other team wants him either.

I know homers over value their own teams players but Cavs fans have thought far too much of Shump and even JR since they got here confusing their 'availability' with their 'desirability'. The awful Knicks had grown tired of their inconsistency. They were simply all the Cavs could afford at the time. The Cavs are much better than the Knicks and much better than when these guys were first acquired. Neither of these guys should be starting. Shumpert in particular is good at nothing.
Its true the team isn't full of great individual defenders, but they will play much better team defense this year with the addition of Crowder and higher iq players. With Crowder actually slowing a main threat instead of Shumpert getting called for a reach in at the worst moments the other defenders will even have a much easier time with their responsibilities and how to focus their attention. The defense won't be great until they get a true interior presence though.

I am inclined to agree with just about all of this. Shump shows flashes and probably could be even a starting player on other younger teams but his role here be a versatile wing off the bench that can hit the open 3 and really pester other players and you just dont get any of that consistently. He is far too erratic to be counted on for major minutes against the other elite teams. People that talk trash about Rose and Wade need to remember they players they are replacing. We need to stop this ridiculous comments like these guys are supposed to make us worse compared to having Deron Williams? Mike Dunleavy Jordan McRae Kay Feilder its really starting to boggle my mind. Yeah i will take my chances with Derrick Rose over Deron and Wade over Shump.

Riddle me this then; what is the difference between Shumpert as a + defender against 1 guards on a starting unit with Lebron as the main ball handler and Kevin Love as the #2 option in the low post with J.R & Crowder both capable outside shooters and defenders vs. Shumpert as a good defender but not a + defender when having to switch onto better offensive 1's playing off the ball at the 2 because the 1 guard position is being held by a bad defensive player or a good one but not a + defender running the 2nd unit that Shump is on the court with?
The bottom line for me is this: how Shump is utilized must be better than it has been , and either of you saying he is a bad defender are under rating his defense because the man he defends is "always" the toughest offensive match up to defend hence giving him an average or even below avg defensive rating ,when it truth he is playing better defense than anyone else we had to put on the offensive threat. Crowder will help in the arena big time, but don't say Shump is a bad defender to justify your distaste for inconsistencies offensively.
imo he would do more for us in the starting unit with better players around him and would annihilate most 1 guards and keep in check the elite ones on the defensive end and would be the 5th option scorer so his offensive deficiencies would be irrelevant.

[afarmenian]

I never said Shump was a bad defender now. He is not a bad defender he is just not a great defender or consistent enough for me to wonder why he doesnt get more minutes. So in game 2 of the finals yeah he did a decent job on Durant, far better than anyone else but he didnt shut him down and went 1-6 negating any of his stops. Thats kind of Shump in a nutshell the talent is there but when his shot is on you dont notice him on defense and then when he is flying around getting stops he is good for a bad turnover or missing a wide open shot.

[johnnyballgame]

I've heard it all now. Starting Iman Shumpert on a team with real championship aspirations. Over many time all-stars, former MVPs, more talented, higher iq players and quite simply - players held in high regard by Lebron. Might as well ask LeBron to waive his no trade clause and send him somewhere else if the team is coached that way.

The rumors that Shumpert can play defense are far over shadowed by the fact that he is so maddeningly inconsistent on both ends of the floor. You're valuing his defense as if its game changing and that is a complete falsification of the truth. He's just as much of a one way player as any of these guys, but with the sometimes caveat of being a no way player.

LeBron values basketball iq as much as anything. Lue obviously likes to know what to expect from a guy as he glued Shumpert to the bench more and more as the season moved forward and mattered more and the team was far, far less deep then.
The team is also not going to treat players like Wade and Rose who sacrificed personally to come here that way. Not for Iman Shumpert. They'll need more players to make that sacrifice in the future.
They weren't trying to deal Shumpert earlier because they were getting something in return. They were trying to move him because they realize they absolutely do not have much use for him. Crowder is the defensive stopper Shumpert never could be. The fact that he and his salary are still here is an indication that he's just not that good and no other team wants him either.

I know homers over value their own teams players but Cavs fans have thought far too much of Shump and even JR since they got here confusing their 'availability' with their 'desirability'. The awful Knicks had grown tired of their inconsistency. They were simply all the Cavs could afford at the time. The Cavs are much better than the Knicks and much better than when these guys were first acquired. Neither of these guys should be starting. Shumpert in particular is good at nothing.
Its true the team isn't full of great individual defenders, but they will play much better team defense this year with the addition of Crowder and higher iq players. With Crowder actually slowing a main threat instead of Shumpert getting called for a reach in at the worst moments the other defenders will even have a much easier time with their responsibilities and how to focus their attention. The defense won't be great until they get a true interior presence though.

I am inclined to agree with just about all of this. Shump shows flashes and probably could be even a starting player on other younger teams but his role here be a versatile wing off the bench that can hit the open 3 and really pester other players and you just dont get any of that consistently. He is far too erratic to be counted on for major minutes against the other elite teams. People that talk trash about Rose and Wade need to remember they players they are replacing. We need to stop this ridiculous comments like these guys are supposed to make us worse compared to having Deron Williams? Mike Dunleavy Jordan McRae Kay Feilder its really starting to boggle my mind. Yeah i will take my chances with Derrick Rose over Deron and Wade over Shump.

Riddle me this then; what is the difference between Shumpert as a + defender against 1 guards on a starting unit with Lebron as the main ball handler and Kevin Love as the #2 option in the low post with J.R & Crowder both capable outside shooters and defenders vs. Shumpert as a good defender but not a + defender when having to switch onto better offensive 1's playing off the ball at the 2 because the 1 guard position is being held by a bad defensive player or a good one but not a + defender running the 2nd unit that Shump is on the court with?
The bottom line for me is this: how Shump is utilized must be better than it has been , and either of you saying he is a bad defender are under rating his defense because the man he defends is "always" the toughest offensive match up to defend hence giving him an average or even below avg defensive rating ,when it truth he is playing better defense than anyone else we had to put on the offensive threat. Crowder will help in the arena big time, but don't say Shump is a bad defender to justify your distaste for inconsistencies offensively.
imo he would do more for us in the starting unit with better players around him and would annihilate most 1 guards and keep in check the elite ones on the defensive end and would be the 5th option scorer so his offensive deficiencies would be irrelevant.

Off the top of my head, the difference would be if teams simply left Shumpert open, forcing him to keep the ball, do you trust him to win games for us? Double LeBron and/or clog the lane but leave the ball in Shumperts hands with nobody guarding him. Do you like our chances there? I absolutely do not.

Also, the ball movement would be worse than ever with Shumpert. It wasn't where it needed to be with Kyrie playing point, it would be even worse with Shumpert who has barely ever averaged 2 assists a game. LeBron would be the entire team offense, counted on for many points and all the distribution. Hence slow/stop him and stop the team becomes an easy game plan for opponents. Not saying thats easy but even the King can't do it all by himself. Isn't that why he left?


Finally, you must not be watching the same Shumpert I was. I saw him left wide open offensively.. we played four on five and struggled badly except LBJ and Kyrie.
Even his defense was awful. I'm talking, not at all what you say. To me its as if he tried to hard, lots of reach ins and/or bad positioning. He gave me the impression he believed he was much better than he is, like you do. He's never been much more than an athletic middle to bottom of the roster guy with a haircut that garnered him more attention than his game deserved.

Read this if you need actual stats/facts that elaborate on his recent play:
https://sportsbystats.com/2017/01/13/the-cleveland-cavaliers-have-an-iman-shumpert-problem/

The Cavs hopes have to be that Rose and Wade, who clearly aren't Kyrie offensively, and IT when he returns improve the distribution throughout the entire 48 minutes. The Cavs need more offensively from a group of players and that starts with distribution. Korver, Love, Crowder, Green, etc. all need to produce more offensively and that doesn't happen w/o someone to dish to them. Hopefully the long periods of selfish stagnant ISO ball disappear not increase. You have to believe they've added more scoring or you can't think they've closed the gap even a little. They were killed when LeBron sat last year and with lots of smart addition and a very, very deep team it looks entirely plausible that the offense is improved even with losing Kyrie.

Defensively its sketchy, but the Cavs have to hope Rose, Wade and IT aren't much worse than Kyrie was defensively, as individuals. The team defense has to be what improves because they still lack an interior presence. With a true stopper in Crowder the defense has improved at least a bit regardless. LeBron can also free lance more as he likes to, hopefully resulting in more steals, blocks and better help defense.

Your way the Cavs can try to ugly out wins with Shumpert playing point, maybe he slows the PG a bit but there's still no interior stopper and they're probably giving away size at center and power forward too. They'll also never be able to play Thompson with Shumpert or the offense would be three against five so Love can't get injured or in foul trouble or the lineup changes a lot. That fact also makes it easier for the opposition as rotations are easily predictable. Its almost as if they have a choice between playing TT or playing Shump and that's an easy choice with little front court depth. If they played Shumpert with Crowder, Korver or anyone else with no handles it wouldn't be much better though. Teams could easily just lay off Shumpert and give him shots.

[Stillwater]

I am inclined to agree with just about all of this. Shump shows flashes and probably could be even a starting player on other younger teams but his role here be a versatile wing off the bench that can hit the open 3 and really pester other players and you just dont get any of that consistently. He is far too erratic to be counted on for major minutes against the other elite teams. People that talk trash about Rose and Wade need to remember they players they are replacing. We need to stop this ridiculous comments like these guys are supposed to make us worse compared to having Deron Williams? Mike Dunleavy Jordan McRae Kay Feilder its really starting to boggle my mind. Yeah i will take my chances with Derrick Rose over Deron and Wade over Shump.

Riddle me this then; what is the difference between Shumpert as a + defender against 1 guards on a starting unit with Lebron as the main ball handler and Kevin Love as the #2 option in the low post with J.R & Crowder both capable outside shooters and defenders vs. Shumpert as a good defender but not a + defender when having to switch onto better offensive 1's playing off the ball at the 2 because the 1 guard position is being held by a bad defensive player or a good one but not a + defender running the 2nd unit that Shump is on the court with?
The bottom line for me is this: how Shump is utilized must be better than it has been , and either of you saying he is a bad defender are under rating his defense because the man he defends is "always" the toughest offensive match up to defend hence giving him an average or even below avg defensive rating ,when it truth he is playing better defense than anyone else we had to put on the offensive threat. Crowder will help in the arena big time, but don't say Shump is a bad defender to justify your distaste for inconsistencies offensively.
imo he would do more for us in the starting unit with better players around him and would annihilate most 1 guards and keep in check the elite ones on the defensive end and would be the 5th option scorer so his offensive deficiencies would be irrelevant.

Off the top of my head, the difference would be if teams simply left Shumpert open, forcing him to keep the ball, do you trust him to win games for us? Double LeBron and/or clog the lane but leave the ball in Shumperts hands with nobody guarding him. Do you like our chances there? I absolutely do not.

Also, the ball movement would be worse than ever with Shumpert. It wasn't where it needed to be with Kyrie playing point, it would be even worse with Shumpert who has barely ever averaged 2 assists a game. LeBron would be the entire team offense, counted on for many points and all the distribution. Hence slow/stop him and stop the team becomes an easy game plan for opponents. Not saying thats easy but even the King can't do it all by himself. Isn't that why he left?


Finally, you must not be watching the same Shumpert I was. I saw him left wide open offensively.. we played four on five and struggled badly except LBJ and Kyrie.
Even his defense was awful. I'm talking, not at all what you say. To me its as if he tried to hard, lots of reach ins and/or bad positioning. He gave me the impression he believed he was much better than he is, like you do. He's never been much more than an athletic middle to bottom of the roster guy with a haircut that garnered him more attention than his game deserved.

Read this if you need actual stats/facts that elaborate on his recent play:
https://sportsbystats.com/2017/01/13/the-cleveland-cavaliers-have-an-iman-shumpert-problem/

The Cavs hopes have to be that Rose and Wade, who clearly aren't Kyrie offensively, and IT when he returns improve the distribution throughout the entire 48 minutes. The Cavs need more offensively from a group of players and that starts with distribution. Korver, Love, Crowder, Green, etc. all need to produce more offensively and that doesn't happen w/o someone to dish to them. Hopefully the long periods of selfish stagnant ISO ball disappear not increase. You have to believe they've added more scoring or you can't think they've closed the gap even a little. They were killed when LeBron sat last year and with lots of smart addition and a very, very deep team it looks entirely plausible that the offense is improved even with losing Kyrie.

Defensively its sketchy, but the Cavs have to hope Rose, Wade and IT aren't much worse than Kyrie was defensively, as individuals. The team defense has to be what improves because they still lack an interior presence. With a true stopper in Crowder the defense has improved at least a bit regardless. LeBron can also free lance more as he likes to, hopefully resulting in more steals, blocks and better help defense.

Your way the Cavs can try to ugly out wins with Shumpert playing point, maybe he slows the PG a bit but there's still no interior stopper and they're probably giving away size at center and power forward too. They'll also never be able to play Thompson with Shumpert or the offense would be three against five so Love can't get injured or in foul trouble or the lineup changes a lot. That fact also makes it easier for the opposition as rotations are easily predictable. Its almost as if they have a choice between playing TT or playing Shump and that's an easy choice with little front court depth. If they played Shumpert with Crowder, Korver or anyone else with no handles it wouldn't be much better though. Teams could easily just lay off Shumpert and give him shots.

I would bet you are over thinking this.
imo it is a fairly simple theory.
Shumpert is a more complete 2-way player when he is in the starting line up at the off guard and could prove better defensively against smaller guards when he is at the point not having to switch as often as J.R. will have the Klays and Derozans of the league. Rose and Calderon have not in the past few seasons shown me much defensively.Wade still good, but cannot keep that intensity all game .
Rose and Calderon at this point in their careers are not significant upgrades offensively to Shump.

Shump was on the trade block this summer, and probably is not now due to the injury yesterday,so it doesn't matter at this time.

He has been killing it offensively in tc and could earn the starting sg role over both Wade and Smith, so don't be too concerned about him running the point if that's your concern, I think Lue has moved past that Idea despite knowing it remains an option against elite backcourts where 1 solid defender at the 2 isn't enough to stop the opposition.

Either way this team is going to struggle early in the season I can see that already thanks to Lue trying out several different line ups