At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

Post #1 » by **jbk1234** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:33 am

I'll start by acknowledging that a trade, or two, probably need to be made. I don't think our defense is fixable with our current personnel. Our effort should be fixable though. Lue doesn't adjust, or adjusts way too late, to match up problems. He doesn't seem to have a good read as to when players are gassed and need to sit. Whatever influence or control he had over LBJ's effort is gone. I feel like this team needs a coach who is willing to use minutes as a way of motivating some of these guys.

I'm not sure why TT and Love aren't starting at this point. I'm not sure why our starters, especially LBJ, play as many minutes as they do if they're not playing with energy and are playing poorly. I don't understand we he leaves Wade and Green in until they're gassed and begin playing poorly. I'm not I'm not sure why Calderon & Frye don't get more run. I'm have no idea why Cedi disappears from rotations for multiple games when we're already playing badly. Lue needs to shorten up the length of these rotations. When an older team, LBJ is older, and we need to adjust to that. Players who don't play with sustained effort need to sit. If our starters need to play at a slower pace so be it.

I get that we're playing for June and not January but there's a point at which you can't achieve escape velocity from the downward spiral. This team needs to put together a win streak. If IT needs to come off the bench, so be it. If we're keeping IT, we can incorporate him slowly into the starting lineup. Our starters can practice with IT and play fewer minutes in games.

Freighttrain · Post #2 » by **Freighttrain** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:29 pm

Our main problem is at the defensive end. Our coverages and switches are out of sync and our individual defense is atrocious. Offense isn't our problem. I remember JR saying last year that it's hard to play a certain defensive scheme during the regular season and play our real defensive system during the playoffs. I hope they're doing that again this year. Because right now it looks bad, really bad.

We're the oldest team in the league so our help defense should be N1 key. Individually we're just not good. Love and Isaiah are probably 2 of the worst defensive starters in the league. That obviously doesn't help, but same could be said last year for Kyrie, yet he's playing "solid" according to Boston fans.

Trading for more 2 way players is perhaps a solution although it's still more an effort than it is a skill and wouldn't help us in the long run. I would only trade for an all-star/superstar if there's one available, a la PG13 or Boogie, etc..

A change of coaching for perhaps someone like Fizdale could be an upgrade, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt until Isaiah has been playing for at least 2 months.. It's hard to evaluate a coach when players are in and out of the line-up.. I have the same frustrations as you are having but as a player myself I know how hard it is for a coach when you never have your full roster.

Stillwater · Post #3 » by **Stillwater** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:52 pm

I often do not agree with Lue's rotation choices. However I think it far more an issue of IT3 thrown in the fire and **** up the starting units flow, and too a lesser degree Thompson replacing Frye on the 2nd unit that has began to start the long process of adaptation. But, at this point I think the pros of waiting out Isaiah are far less than cutting our losses and replacing his offense with a solid defensive pg that can play off ball when needed offensively as a 4th or 5th option.
It will be interesting to see what direction this front office goes, but if they wait out IT3 because there is no market for him right now, and if that proves to continue to hamper this team winning ways, it will be the end of Altman not Lue.

BigtimeNBAfan · Post #4 » by **BigtimeNBAfan** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:12 am

His first 2 years as HC, he wins a title by beating the 73 win Warrios and follows it up by dominating the East and taking a game from the otherwise undefeated Warriors. He has 5 years of goodwill for ending the curse of Cleveland and making Cleveland sports relevant.

Post #5 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:44 am

BigtimeNBAfan wrote:His first 2 years as HC, he wins a title by beating the 73 win Warrios and follows it up by dominating the East and taking a game from the otherwise undefeated Warriors. He has 5 years of goodwill for ending the curse of Cleveland and making Cleveland sports relevant.

First off, the Cavs made it to the Finals under Blatt without Love and Kyrie being available against the Bulls and Hawks. They somehow managed to win two games in that series with Delly and TT taking their places. So let's not act like Lue was some kind of coaching genius.

I'm growing very concerned about Lue. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's as though he just doesn't care about the physical limitations of the players on his team.

CaptainCanada · Post #6 » by **CaptainCanada** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:05 am

At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

How about......right now.

He is one Lebron sneeze away from getting the ejection seat.

Post #7 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:25 pm

From the outside looking in, I'm shocked Lue still has a job. For those talking about his coaching achievements - I happen to think a clipboard on an empty chair could have done the same.

I'm a little surprised that Osman hasn't been given more run simply because I think he brings precisely what you need - some grit, hustle and defensive effort without looking for "his" on the offensive end.

Also, I think IT is way better suited to being the 6th man on your team. He needs the ball to be effective - something that doesn't really happen when you have LeBron (or any ball dominant superstar for that matter ) on your team.

Post #8 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:26 pm

CaptainCanada wrote:At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

How about......right now.

He is one Lebron sneeze away from getting the ejection seat.

I mean part of the problem is that Lue isn't yanking LBJ out when stops trying so I'm not entirely sure LBJ wants a coaching change. You could get someone like Fizdale or Mark Jackson and then the fireworks would really start.

Dupp · Post #9 » by **Dupp** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:27 pm

I feel like it won’t be in jeopardy at all unfortunately

Dupp · Post #10 » by **Dupp** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
CaptainCanada wrote:At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

How about......right now.

He is one Lebron sneeze away from getting the ejection seat.

I mean part of the problem is that Lue isn't yanking LBJ out when stops trying so I'm not entirely sure LBJ wants a coaching change. You could get someone like Fizdale or Mark Jackson and then the fireworks would really start.

No!

B-Ball Freak · Post #11 » by **B-Ball Freak** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:19 pm

He can't keep putting out the same old small ball lineup (Love at the 5, Crowder at the 4)...the rest of the league has caught on and it ain't gonna work any more.

Stillwater · Post #12 » by **Stillwater** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:43 pm

B-Ball Freak wrote:He can't keep putting out the same old small ball lineup (Love at the 5, Crowder at the 4)...the rest of the league has caught on and it ain't gonna work any more.

I agree with the Crowder part, but we cannot rely on Thompson at the 4 since he has proven better as a back up center or starting center with Love at the 4.
Love has been impactful at the 5 in a significant way and is playing decent defense playing out of position despite not being a "rim protector" in the traditional sense. We got killed with IT3 controlling the ball against OKC and Love out sick.
Crowder needs to play the 3 off the bench or get traded at this point.

B-Ball Freak · Post #13 » by **B-Ball Freak** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:25 pm

I dont know, Love at the 5 in addition to IT being the point guard, the Cavs will always have trouble defending and rebounding.

Post #14 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:49 pm

Dupp wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
CaptainCanada wrote:At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

How about......right now.

He is one Lebron sneeze away from getting the ejection seat.

I mean part of the problem is that Lue isn't yanking LBJ out when stops trying so I'm not entirely sure LBJ wants a coaching change. You could get someone like Fizdale or Mark Jackson and then the fireworks would really start.

No!

That wasn't a recommendation. Just an observation.

Post #15 » by **jbk1234** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:50 pm

B-Ball Freak wrote:I dont know, Love at the 5 in addition to IT being the point guard, the Cavs will always have trouble defending and rebounding.

Who's in charge of starting Love at the 5 and starting IT at all?

bmurph128 · Post #16 » by **bmurph128** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:47 pm

It should be. Too bad we can't midseason hire Fizdale to take his place.

Anyone else about done with watching this team in the regular season?

bmurph128 · Post #17 » by **bmurph128** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:49 pm

On the flip side, not to make an excuse for Lue, but my God JR Smith and Crowder..

If they just play to their capabilities offensively this team would have a much better record, even with the awful defense.

cavs4872 · Post #18 » by **cavs4872** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:25 am

Right now; the only reason he's still here is because LeBron likes him.

The small ball lineups are trash; Jae Crowder is not a PF. I agree with op that Love and TT need to start, and then hopefully by the playoffs Wade would replace Smith as the starting SG. I have already given up on this team, and the fact they are pursuing George Hill (a fourth PG) and willing to give up Frye is another nail in the coffin - Frye has been nothing but $, and he should be backing up TT who should be starting, not rotting on the bench.

If Lue wasn't totally inept, a trade would not really be as necessary. If anything, Crowder is the odd man out; he is not a PF, and should be played at that position sparingly, and should honestly be LeBron's backup but is too good for that - trade him. A shooter like Korver is expendable as well.

I am not even kidding; it has gotten to the point that the small ball lineup is literally giving me headaches, and when I saw IT-Rose-Smith-Crowder-LeBron being played against the Thunder, it was time to reach for the waste basket; throw Ty Lue in there as well.

Post #19 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:24 am

Anyone else feel like Lue insists on playing IT & Love at the same time to show the F.O. this won't work? It's borderline inexplicable. Kevin Love can't get on the court anymore unless IT is playing alongside him. Crowder rotating at the rim is worthless. LBJ won't rotate at the rim. You're one high PNR from a barely contested lay up.

Stillwater · Post #20 » by **Stillwater** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:23 am

^Without question now it's not only Love and LBJ trying to steer the front office it's Lue.Either that or Lue is being pressured to play him,which wouldn't make a lot of sense becasue the more he plays the farther down his value sinks.
IDK what exactly is going to happen, but I doubt we could get a box of empty beer cans for IT3 right now.
My gut tells me he needs to be traded, not just benched until healthy,because the man is way to over confident
to concede the fact he cannot get it done at this time and his carry over alpha mentality is not respected by this roster when he doesn't do anything but cause them to look bad.
Crowder being played out of position has run way past the time it should have, Lue gets the blame for that, but he really has little choice given we need to trade for an upgrade to crash the glass. Dejounte Murray out rebounded Crowder.
What's worse it Thompson played 19 minutes and had 1 rebound.
Trading away Frye and Shumpert in a deal for Hill doesn't make nearly as much sense as moving players like IT3,Crowder,Thompson etc.