Current cap situation/ rebuilding

Freighttrain · Post #1 » by **Freighttrain** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 9:50 am

If we want to rebuild (unless management wants to remain 'competitive' since we're rebuilding the arena and need fans to come and watch the games) I feel like trading love is going to be essential. Although his current value isn't what it once was, I would think management is going to try to build Love up to the 25-13 guy he once was -if he can still produce such numbers- and deal him after next season when some team might be persuaded enough to give us something meaningful in return.

JR is owed 4mil in 2019-2020, George Hill 1mil during the 2019-2020 season so that's the positive. The negatives : TT fully 5 year guaranteed contract that lasts untill 2019-2020 and Jordan Clarkson guaranteed 13 mil untill 2019-2020.

Seems like we're 'stuck' for the upcoming season but the year after that we can write some contracts off the books and try to take on some bad ones in order to get more picks. We have 2 solid young players in Sexton & Cedi, but we'll need way more if we want to be competitive once again.

KuruptedCav · Post #2 » by **KuruptedCav** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 11:18 am

Cavs are over the cap but under the luxury tax. Cavs owe their 2019 pick to the Hawks, protected 1-10. If not conveyed, then 2020, protected 1-10. If not conveyed, becomes unprotected 2nd rounders in 2021 & 2022.

Partially guaranteed contracts:
Hill is guaranteed $1 million in 2019;
JR Smith is guaranteed $3.87 million in 2019;
Kyle Korver is guaranteed $3.44 million in 2019; these can be used to clean up someone else’s mess.

Young talent: Nance, Hood, Osman, Sexton, Zizic... all have some positive value.

The last time Lebron left, the Cavs used Gilbert’s wallet to start acquiring assets. I’d expect that to happen again. Here’s looking at you Memphis. Cavs won’t exceed lux tax because they need to reset it. But with Hill, Smith, and Korver, there is opportunity.

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yoyoboy · Post #3 » by **yoyoboy** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 9:23 pm

It sucks but we just have to accept that we're going to be really bad for a fairly long time. It's in our best interest to be as horrible as possible these next few years, especially since Atlanta will get our pick if it's outside the top 10 the next 2 years. Develop Cedi, Sexton, and Zizic. Trade Love a few weeks into the season for as good of a first rounder as you can get after he's shown he can put up good looking statlines. Try to take on horrible contracts like Deng, Batum, and Parsons in exchange for picks. And keep Lue around for the tank.

I know a lot of people are excited to watch a young team grow and develop, but I'm personally depressed as hell. I think fans really take for granted how nice it is to make it to the Finals 4 seasons in a row and be relevant with the spotlight on your team. The grass is always greener. I get how stressful it can be and how tough it is to deal with the title expectations that come with having LeBron on your team, but let's not forget...those 4 years post-LeBron were brutal... and the years before LeBron was drafted here were even worse. The value of the franchise most likely just got cut in half. The businesses downtown will suffer. Finally, all the attention and "there's no place like home" goodwill that LeBron brought with him that made people here feel proud to have a hometown guy who really cared and represented the city are gone with him. And now we have to play the waiting game and hope we luck our way into drafting a player even half as good as the possible GOAT who just left our team. Because that's how you win titles in the NBA. By accumulating all-time great talent.

Dupp · Post #4 » by **Dupp** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 9:24 pm

Ok good to hear the korver pick is top 10 protected. Have we sent out any other picks?

KuruptedCav · Post #5 » by **KuruptedCav** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 11:05 pm

Dupp wrote:Ok good to hear the korver pick is top 10 protected. Have we sent out any other picks?

2019 & 2020 #2s; 2021 & 2022 #2s if the ATL #1 doesn’t convey; 2024 #2 pick swap with Utah.

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Post #6 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Jul 3, 2018 3:47 am

I think that cap space in the NBA is approaching something similar to mortgage-backed securities in 2008. There were at least three playoff teams, and one late lotto team, that should've traded their first round picks to dump salary a month ago and didn't. Cavs should be very careful not to sell their expiring contracts or future cap space cheap. I predict the Wizards and/or Blazers will dump really good players next summer. I also think that the Hornets end up attaching a lottery pick to Batum.

Post #7 » by **Snakebites** » Tue Jul 3, 2018 4:41 am

At least you’re not the Pistons.

Dupp · Post #8 » by **Dupp** » Tue Jul 3, 2018 10:43 pm

Snakebites wrote:At least you’re not the Pistons.

Please don’t come here and rub in our faces you guys stole Calderon. We’re grieving.

Post #9 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Jul 4, 2018 7:36 am

It's already happening. Be smart with that future cap space Cavs.

Read on Twitter

Stillwater · Post #10 » by **Stillwater** » Wed Jul 4, 2018 1:19 pm

I'm not down with a full tank rebuild starting "this season" mostly because I don't think it will happen given the young talent already in place,I think we should try to retool with assets acquired from trading off Hill ,Smith Korver etc, but am also inclined to think we should be targeting some of the 2nd round steals from this years draft as return compensation over future picks as the next 2 draft classes are weak.

Trailbreaker · Post #11 » by **Trailbreaker** » Wed Jul 4, 2018 4:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:It's already happening. Be smart with that future cap space Cavs.

Read on Twitter

I’ve always liked what I’ve seen from Bradley Beal. Do you think if he came here and we built around him and Sexton that we’d be pretty solid?

I imagine we’d have to wait for 2-3 years for the GSW dynasty to end.

Stillwater · Post #12 » by **Stillwater** » Wed Jul 4, 2018 4:49 pm

Trailbreaker wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:It's already happening. Be smart with that future cap space Cavs.

Read on Twitter

I’ve always liked what I’ve seen from Bradley Beal. Do you think if he came here and we built around him and Sexton that we’d be pretty solid?

I imagine we’d have to wait for 2-3 years for the GSW dynasty to end.

I don't think he was suggesting we go after Beal, but only that teams that are in financial trouble and will be looking for expiring contracts if they don't see a path to the finals with their core.

Post #13 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Jul 4, 2018 4:58 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:It's already happening. Be smart with that future cap space Cavs.

Read on Twitter

I’ve always liked what I’ve seen from Bradley Beal. Do you think if he came here and we built around him and Sexton that we’d be pretty solid?

I imagine we’d have to wait for 2-3 years for the GSW dynasty to end.

I don't think he was suggesting we go after Beal, but only that teams that are in financial trouble and will be looking for expiring contracts if they don't see a path to the finals with their core.

Precisely. Owners are not about covering $50 million in losses, year after year, for teams that get bounced out of the first round, or who don't even make the playoffs, and who have no realistic path to improvement. We are approaching a point where owners start telling GMs to get them out of the tax regardless of what it takes. The Nuggets just attached two second round picks to Wilson Chandler, who is expiring, and he doesn't even make that much money. They're talking about attaching their first to Faried and/or Arthur both of whom are expiring. Those are the teams you want to be talking to about trading your expiring contracts with. Next summer, if the Knicks have the chance to sign Kyrie and Butler, they'll give up Porzingis if the Cavs eat $30-40 million in payroll.

Revenged25 · Post #14 » by **Revenged25** » Thu Jul 5, 2018 1:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Trailbreaker wrote:I’ve always liked what I’ve seen from Bradley Beal. Do you think if he came here and we built around him and Sexton that we’d be pretty solid?

I imagine we’d have to wait for 2-3 years for the GSW dynasty to end.

I don't think he was suggesting we go after Beal, but only that teams that are in financial trouble and will be looking for expiring contracts if they don't see a path to the finals with their core.

Precisely. Owners are not about covering $50 million in losses, year after year, for teams that get bounced out of the first round, or who don't even make the playoffs, and who have no realistic path to improvement. We are approaching a point where owners start telling GMs to get them out of the tax regardless of what it takes. The Nuggets just attached two second round picks to Wilson Chandler, who is expiring, and he doesn't even make that much money. They're talking about attaching their first to Faried and/or Arthur both of whom are expiring. Those are the teams you want to be talking to about trading your expiring contracts with. Next summer, if the Knicks have the chance to sign Kyrie and Butler, they'll give up Porzingis if the Cavs eat $30-40 million in payroll.

Not sure they would give up Zingis as that would be someone they would want to build around, but I wouldn't be surprised if they gave up their 1st, which might be top 5.

Tully305 · Post #15 » by **Tully305** » Thu Jul 5, 2018 2:53 pm

I’ve been thinking that the Knicks are out best option to get something of value. Maybe a 3 team trade where Love go out and we get back knicks 1st, Noah and some young prospects.

Stillwater · Post #16 » by **Stillwater** » Thu Jul 5, 2018 6:48 pm

^ Knicks don't have any assets worth acquiring

Tully305 · Post #17 » by **Tully305** » Fri Jul 6, 2018 1:59 am

Stillwater wrote:^ Knicks don't have any assets worth acquiring

I was thinking about attaching draft picks for taking back someone like Noah. Knicks looking to be big players in FA next year and need to clear cap

Trailbreaker · Post #18 » by **Trailbreaker** » Fri Jul 6, 2018 2:25 pm

Tully305 wrote:I was thinking about attaching draft picks for taking back someone like Noah. Knicks looking to be big players in FA next year and need to clear cap

Yep, something like how we acquired Baron Davis from the Clippers deal. And that pick we got back turned into quite a good player.

Stillwater · Post #19 » by **Stillwater** » Fri Jul 6, 2018 3:03 pm

Trailbreaker wrote:
Tully305 wrote:I was thinking about attaching draft picks for taking back someone like Noah. Knicks looking to be big players in FA next year and need to clear cap

Yep, something like how we acquired Baron Davis from the Clippers deal. And that pick we got back turned into quite a good player.

The NY 2019 pick isn't worth taking back Noah. They are going to be in the 8-17 pick range best case scenario even with KP out for awhile. Next years draft is straight garbage after the top 2 in regards to justification of a move like that. To me that is not an asset given it would mean paying 36 mil over the next 2 years for a dead weight contract.

SpotMe3pts · Post #20 » by **SpotMe3pts** » Sat Jul 7, 2018 12:26 am

yoyoboy wrote:It sucks but we just have to accept that we're going to be really bad for a fairly long time. It's in our best interest to be as horrible as possible these next few years, especially since Atlanta will get our pick if it's outside the top 10 the next 2 years. Develop Cedi, Sexton, and Zizic. Trade Love a few weeks into the season for as good of a first rounder as you can get after he's shown he can put up good looking statlines. Try to take on horrible contracts like Deng, Batum, and Parsons in exchange for picks. And keep Lue around for the tank.

I know a lot of people are excited to watch a young team grow and develop, but I'm personally depressed as hell. I think fans really take for granted how nice it is to make it to the Finals 4 seasons in a row and be relevant with the spotlight on your team. The grass is always greener. I get how stressful it can be and how tough it is to deal with the title expectations that come with having LeBron on your team, but let's not forget...those 4 years post-LeBron were brutal... and the years before LeBron was drafted here were even worse. The value of the franchise most likely just got cut in half. The businesses downtown will suffer. Finally, all the attention and "there's no place like home" goodwill that LeBron brought with him that made people here feel proud to have a hometown guy who really cared and represented the city are gone with him. And now we have to play the waiting game and hope we luck our way into drafting a player even half as good as the possible GOAT who just left our team. Because that's how you win titles in the NBA. By accumulating all-time great talent.

Just a question: So you do not think with the current personnel on the Cavs roster can't get into the playoffs as a 5-8 seed team. Also can't the Cavs add some solid players to help make a playoff run, instead and blowing up the team and start a massive rebuild?