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How in da fuq did the Cavs gets Fratello and Cellini for their pregame show? NBA TV much?

Cellini looking orange af.

Cavs are going to be really really bad this year. Anyone who thought different needs their basketball card suspended for a while.

afarmenian wrote:Cavs are going to be really really bad this year. Anyone who thought different needs their basketball card suspended for a while.

If you told me that we'd lose LBJ while the Raptors would get Leonard and Danny Green, I'm pretty sure I'd have told they're going to win. Frankly, we had a chance in the end until the Raptors guards started getting rewarded for flopping.

I’m on the Pro Tank Wagon this year.

We started the season how we should imo. Compete hard and come up short.

I know there’s still some Cavs fans that have a glimmer of hope and think the Cavaliers will prove all the doubters wrong and want us to try and sneak into the playoffs this season. But that just seems like a huge mistake imo.

The last thing I want the Cavs to do is be in a similar situation that the Hornets/Bobcats have been in for the past 10+ years or however long it’s been. That’s basically NBA Purgatory.

tundraknight wrote:I’m on the Pro Tank Wagon this year.

We started the season how we should imo. Compete hard and come up short.

I know there’s still some Cavs fans that have a glimmer of hope and think the Cavaliers will prove all the doubters wrong and want us to try and sneak into the playoffs this season. But that just seems like a huge mistake imo.

The last thing I want the Cavs to do is be in a similar situation that the Hornets/Bobcats have been in for the past 10+ years or however long it’s been. That’s basically NBA Purgatory.

If we're coming up short after 30 games, I'm all for re-evaluating. But the Raptors were a 60-win team last year. They added Leonard and Danny Green. Frankly, I'm not convinced that losing DeRozan isn't addition by subtraction. It's either the Raptors or Celtics coming out of the East this year. I'm not prepared to evaluate based off of just one game.

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:Cavs are going to be really really bad this year. Anyone who thought different needs their basketball card suspended for a while.

If you told me that we'd lose LBJ while the Raptors would get Leonard and Danny Green, I'm pretty sure I'd have told they're going to win. Frankly, we had a chance in the end until the Raptors guards started getting rewarded for flopping.

Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

afarmenian wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:Cavs are going to be really really bad this year. Anyone who thought different needs their basketball card suspended for a while.

If you told me that we'd lose LBJ while the Raptors would get Leonard and Danny Green, I'm pretty sure I'd have told they're going to win. Frankly, we had a chance in the end until the Raptors guards started getting rewarded for flopping.

Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

I mean the Hawks just lost by 19 points to a Knicks team that doesn't have Zinger. I really never want to go back to being that bad again. I don't mind being a late lottery team but I don't need to watch another 20-win season unless it involves serious injuries to multiple players. I actually enjoy, or at least want to enjoy, watching my team in the regular season. Winter is just to damn cold in Cleveland.

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
If you told me that we'd lose LBJ while the Raptors would get Leonard and Danny Green, I'm pretty sure I'd have told they're going to win. Frankly, we had a chance in the end until the Raptors guards started getting rewarded for flopping.

Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

I mean the Hawks just lost by 19 points to a Knicks team that doesn't have Zinger. I really never want to go back to being that bad again. I don't mind being a late lottery team but I don't need to watch another 20-win season unless it involves serious injuries to multiple players. I actually enjoy, or at least want to enjoy, watching my team in the regular season. Winter is just to damn cold in Cleveland.

I hear you I guess I am just trying to realistic i mean whatever happens its not like we have a choice in the matter. I think they will be bad enough to get a pick. I do not think it has to get 15 win bad again but man the cupboard is bare. When its all said and done at the all star break I think they will be forced to be sellers. I dont know what Kevin Love could fetch but they better hope something because nobody on this team has value other than Cedi and Sexton. I mean that's pathetic, I just dont see a way out of it unless they bottom out for a couple years. I dont see this team being very fun to watch. A bunch of veterans going through the motions and some young guys trying to prove themselves and Rodney Hood playing for a contract, Jordon Clarkson thinking he is the best player on the court, Love missing bunnies and playing bad D, Hill playing like its a day job, Tristan Thompson being 0 teamed on offense. Cherry on top Sexton doesnt look like a potential all star caliber player...he looked like he could be good, but what trait does he have that screams nba star.

We have no low post big man, no shooting, no size, no athleticism. I just hate this team already.

afarmenian wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:
Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

I mean the Hawks just lost by 19 points to a Knicks team that doesn't have Zinger. I really never want to go back to being that bad again. I don't mind being a late lottery team but I don't need to watch another 20-win season unless it involves serious injuries to multiple players. I actually enjoy, or at least want to enjoy, watching my team in the regular season. Winter is just to damn cold in Cleveland.

I hear you I guess I am just trying to realistic i mean whatever happens its not like we have a choice in the matter. I think they will be bad enough to get a pick. I do not think it has to get 15 win bad again but man the cupboard is bare. When its all said and done at the all star break I think they will be forced to be sellers. I dont know what Kevin Love could fetch but they better hope something because nobody on this team has value other than Cedi and Sexton. I mean that's pathetic, I just dont see a way out of it unless they bottom out for a couple years. I dont see this team being very fun to watch. A bunch of veterans going through the motions and some young guys trying to prove themselves and Rodney Hood playing for a contract. We have no low post big man, no shooting, no size, no athleticism. I just hate this team already.

We played one of the most athletic, if not the most athletic, teams in the league tonight. Nance Jr. was out. Again, give it 30 games. My current chief concern is starting TT. He's no threat on offense and defenses treat him that way. Worse, he hangs around the paint in order to get in position for the offensive rebound. He needs to set picks on the perimeter and leave the paint open. There are times where I literally watch him bring a second defender into the paint when Love's trying to post and I want to scream.

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
If you told me that we'd lose LBJ while the Raptors would get Leonard and Danny Green, I'm pretty sure I'd have told they're going to win. Frankly, we had a chance in the end until the Raptors guards started getting rewarded for flopping.

Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

I mean the Hawks just lost by 19 points to a Knicks team that doesn't have Zinger. I really never want to go back to being that bad again. I don't mind being a late lottery team but I don't need to watch another 20-win season unless it involves serious injuries to multiple players. I actually enjoy, or at least want to enjoy, watching my team in the regular season. Winter is just to damn cold in Cleveland.

I hear where you’re coming from but at the same time if we want to ever have any kind of relevance in this league again our only option is to be really bad before we’re really good.

Right now who are the players we have that could be part of a contending team a few years from now? Cedi. Nance. Sexton, maybe I guess. I really don’t like him as a prospect at all and didn’t before the draft, but he’s at least young enough where I’m willing to wait and see. Maybe Zizic and Nwaba could be rotation players.

Love’s older and his defense is a serious liability at this point, and he’s not efficient enough inside the arc or a good enough creator to be that great of an offensive player. I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t consider him part of the core. More so the remainder of the last core, and a bridge veteran to keep fans somewhat interested and hopefully mentor the young guys to a degree. Hill and JR (hopefully) won’t be here after this year. Tristan and Clarkson need to be gone a couple summers from now. Korver will be retired. Dekker is literally nonexistent out there and we have a few years of evidence now that he’s not good; I don’t expect the Cavs to be the team to “unlock” his potential, whatever that is. Finally, you have Hood who I know a lot of people think can be a good player if he just puts it together, but I’m not seeing it at all. There’s a reason Utah (an amazing team atmosphere where Snyder gets the most out of his guys) wanted to get rid of him. He’s not particularly efficient because he’s only an okay three point shooter (and doesn’t like to spot up) and takes a lot of midrangers while not getting to the line much, he’s not good on defense, and he hardly even attempts to create for others. If we give him a serious contract this summer, it’s going to be very difficult for me to watch this team over the next few years and would solidify to me that we have one of the most inept ownership and management groups in the league. We can put ourselves in a great position to rebuild if we don’t make stupid decisions trying to be “competitive” aka 9th-12th seed this year and next. Though, Hood is fool’s gold because he doesn’t even help you do that.

This market is not going to attract marquee free agents; we know this. And if we did it would only be because we already put together a good team and can offer them a good contract. Do we really want to throw that all away so we can pay Hood $15 mil a year and try to have Love and Hood put up 30 combined shots a game towards making the playoffs (and failing to do so)? We need to be patient and unfortunately for us Gilbert has none of this. That’s why I’ve always said I don’t think we’re going to be a really good team again unless Gilbert sells the team. He’ll always meddle and mess things up. If we would just win 25-30 games this year, get a top 5 pick, be moderately bad next year (pick in the 5-10 range), then we have about $60 mil in cap space to shore up the team in summer 2020. I don’t think we can attract the A-free agents, but hopefully the B-guys. But if we just waste all of that cap on mediocre players like Hood and Clarkson and do everything we can to try to make the playoffs this year (which could end up with us losing our pick to Atlanta), then we’re going to be a bad team for a very, very long time, and at that point I’ll just have to place all my hopes and excitement in the Browns.

yoyoboy wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

afarmenian wrote:
Well of course the Raptors are going to be great but I am not just basing that on what I saw tonight.

The concerning thing to me the Cavs played exactly like they played last year except no Lebron. No shotblocking, no defense, they crashed the glass and got 6 more offensive rebonds and got 19 more free throws and still lost by double digits. Thats just a really bad sign of things to come. Love looked even more timid somehow in the paint.

The only player that really looked ready to compete was Cedi. Everyone else looked like they were waiting for lebron to come back.

I mean the Hawks just lost by 19 points to a Knicks team that doesn't have Zinger. I really never want to go back to being that bad again. I don't mind being a late lottery team but I don't need to watch another 20-win season unless it involves serious injuries to multiple players. I actually enjoy, or at least want to enjoy, watching my team in the regular season. Winter is just to damn cold in Cleveland.

I hear where you’re coming from but at the same time if we want to ever have any kind of relevance in this league again our only option is to be really bad before we’re really good.

Right now who are the players we have that could be part of a contending team a few years from now? Cedi. Nance. Sexton, maybe I guess. I really don’t like him as a prospect at all and didn’t before the draft, but he’s at least young enough where I’m willing to wait and see. Maybe Zizic and Nwaba could be rotation players.

Love’s older and his defense is a serious liability at this point, and he’s not efficient enough inside the arc or a good enough creator to be that great of an offensive player. I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t consider him part of the core. More so the remainder of the last core, and a bridge veteran to keep fans somewhat interested and hopefully mentor the young guys to a degree. Hill and JR (hopefully) won’t be here after this year. Tristan and Clarkson need to be gone a couple summers from now. Korver will be retired. Dekker is literally nonexistent out there and we have a few years of evidence now that he’s not good; I don’t expect the Cavs to be the team to “unlock” his potential, whatever that is. Finally, you have Hood who I know a lot of people think can be a good player if he just puts it together, but I’m not seeing it at all. There’s a reason Utah (an amazing team atmosphere where Snyder gets the most out of his guys) wanted to get rid of him. He’s not particularly efficient because he’s only an okay three point shooter (and doesn’t like to spot up) and takes a lot of midrangers while not getting to the line much, he’s not good on defense, and he hardly even attempts to create for others. If we give him a serious contract this summer, it’s going to be very difficult for me to watch this team over the next few years and would solidify to me that we have one of the most inept ownership and management groups in the league. We can put ourselves in a great position to rebuild if we don’t make stupid decisions trying to be “competitive” aka 9th-12th seed this year and next. Though, Hood is fool’s gold because he doesn’t even help you do that.

This market is not going to attract marquee free agents; we know this. And if we did it would only be because we already put together a good team and can offer them a good contract. Do we really want to throw that all away so we can pay Hood $15 mil a year and try to have Love and Hood put up 30 combined shots a game towards making the playoffs (and failing to do so)? We need to be patient and unfortunately for us Gilbert has none of this. That’s why I’ve always said I don’t think we’re going to be a really good team again unless Gilbert sells the team. He’ll always meddle and mess things up. If we would just win 25-30 games this year, get a top 5 pick, be moderately bad next year (pick in the 5-10 range), then we have about $60 mil in cap space to shore up the team in summer 2020. I don’t think we can attract the A-free agents, but hopefully the B-guys. But if we just waste all of that cap on mediocre players like Hood and Clarkson and do everything we can to try to make the playoffs this year (which could end up with us losing our pick to Atlanta), then we’re going to be a bad team for a very, very long time, and at that point I’ll just have to place all my hopes and excitement in the Browns.

I don't see persuadable evidence that completely bottoming out significantly increases your chances of being a good team in the long wrong. There are far many more examples of it not working out than it working out. Even the Sixers, who everyone holds up as the tanking gold standard, are the third best team in an Eastern Conference that doesn't have LBJ. They're an Embiid injury away from being back in the lotto. Was all that losing worth it? The Suns *goal* this year to win 30 games. Be careful what you wish for.

I feel like fans are comparing the current team with the 2016 team which isn't a fair bench mark considering that's the only time the franchise has ever won a championship. A fair bench mark is where is this team now versus where was this team in the 2013-14 season or after four seasons of a rebuild. A team that had Kyrie Irving, TT, Waiters, Karasev, Zeller, and Bennett to show for all that losing. I think this team is better than that team. We have a few talented players and a bunch of middling players like 80% of the teams in the NBA.

TT needs to figure out how to play effectively with K. Love or he needs to come off the bench. I'm tired of him walking a second defender into the paint so that he can position himself for an offensive rebound while Love's trying to post. He needs to be out on the perimeter setting screens, or better yet, coming off the bench. Without Kyrie or LBJ, the starting unit just doesn't have enough offensive firepower to play 4 on 5 on offense.

I'm hopeful that both Nance and Sexton are starting by mid season. But we should force them to earn that. I prefer where we are now versus where we were when LBJ left the first time. As I said initially, I'm waiting 30 games before rendering an evaluation whether to fire up the tank or try for the playoffs. I think everyone should do that.

Cedi have to take more responsibility on offense, handle the ball more and run plays , he seems to took a backseat after first quarter and let rest of the team chuck shots, i liked his defense on Kawhi, he really disturbed Kawhi on defense. as for the Cavs they really need a rim protector big with size and thats not TT for sure.

You obviously gotta let it ride out for a little. Love is probably tradable with the Nance extension.

There's no quick fix; my only objection with tanking is that it's so unnatural that it can't be good for the players, fans or anyone. We got our championship; I would honestly rather finish ninth playing the right way than watch a horrendous season.

cavs4872 wrote:You obviously gotta let it ride out for a little. Love is probably tradable with the Nance extension.

There's no quick fix; my only objection with tanking is that it's so unnatural that it can't be good for the players, fans or anyone. We got our championship; I would honestly rather finish ninth playing the right way than watch a horrendous season.

This.