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Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#401 » by Stillwater » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:55 pm

Cleveland the city and Northeast Ohio may not be on the top of any persons dream destinations but the biggest detractors for FA is how the org sees them. Most big time players not only want an open roster to bring in their friends they expect to not only be paid but to have teams reconstruct around them and I doubt CLE will do that for anyone short of Giannis or Siakim. and if you don't have the assets or have any really great rotation players already like they don't you're sol and that goes for any market.
They will have to slowly rebuild like they were and seemingly getting nowhere before LeBron came home. I mean we might see a 8th seed level effort out of whoever is on the roster as soon as next season if they just simply RUN. But odds are they will be slowly grinding again if they draft anyone besides Wiseman.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#402 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:35 pm

Stillwater wrote:Cleveland the city and Northeast Ohio may not be on the top of any persons dream destinations but the biggest detractors for FA is how the org sees them. Most big time players not only want an open roster to bring in their friends they expect to not only be paid but to have teams reconstruct around them and I doubt CLE will do that for anyone short of Giannis or Siakim. and if you don't have the assets or have any really great rotation players already like they don't you're sol and that goes for any market.
They will have to slowly rebuild like they were and seemingly getting nowhere before LeBron came home. I mean we might see a 8th seed level effort out of whoever is on the roster as soon as next season if they just simply RUN. But odds are they will be slowly grinding again if they draft anyone besides Wiseman.
It's really hard to run when you can't get stops.

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#403 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Oh it does ... free agency inflates the value of players due to scarcity. It only takes one GM with money and need and someone will get paid.

So there's a decent chance Tristan will get overpaid ... but if he falls through the cracks, maybe could trade him and still get him back.
The idea that other teams will sign players to contracts that will instantly cause a player to have negative trade value, so we should to, is one I find deeply flawed.


Irrelevant... we wouldn't be signing Tristan to trade him and if your looking for "deals" in free agency your city had better be a "destination" for superstars or you'd better wait out the other teams and see what's left.

Teams like us overpay or get scraps in free-agency.
Of course it's relevant. Cap space is an asset. If you waste it, it's gone. You can't trade it or use it to fill other needs later.

If you lock up a player above his market value for a long time, you're stuck with that player should you want to move on. The Pacers are better now than when they had PG based in large part due to cap management. Both the Hornets and Wolves found themselves unable to build around good players due to poor cap management. Cap management matters regardless of whether you're a F.A. destination.

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#404 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:03 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:The idea that other teams will sign players to contracts that will instantly cause a player to have negative trade value, so we should to, is one I find deeply flawed.


Irrelevant... we wouldn't be signing Tristan to trade him and if your looking for "deals" in free agency your city had better be a "destination" for superstars or you'd better wait out the other teams and see what's left.

Teams like us overpay or get scraps in free-agency.
Of course it's relevant. Cap space is an asset. If you waste it, it's gone. You can't trade it or use it to fill other needs later.

If you lock up a player above his market value for a long time, you're stuck with that player should you want to move on. The Pacers are better now than when they had PG based in large part due to cap management. Both the Hornets and Wolves found themselves unable to build around good players due to poor cap management. Cap management matters regardless of whether you're a F.A. destination.


At this point in the rebuild we have more cap space then we can do anything useful with. I'm afraid we'll see if we dump Kevin and TT for expirings.

Anyway a team can rebuild without luck but it takes talent evaluation and player development and unfortunately the jury is still out on both of those for the Cavs and I might be being kind there.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#405 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:04 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Irrelevant... we wouldn't be signing Tristan to trade him and if your looking for "deals" in free agency your city had better be a "destination" for superstars or you'd better wait out the other teams and see what's left.

Teams like us overpay or get scraps in free-agency.
Of course it's relevant. Cap space is an asset. If you waste it, it's gone. You can't trade it or use it to fill other needs later.

If you lock up a player above his market value for a long time, you're stuck with that player should you want to move on. The Pacers are better now than when they had PG based in large part due to cap management. Both the Hornets and Wolves found themselves unable to build around good players due to poor cap management. Cap management matters regardless of whether you're a F.A. destination.


At this point in the rebuild we have more cap space then we can do anything useful with. I'm afraid we'll see if we dump Kevin and TT for expirings.

Anyway a team can rebuild without luck but it takes talent evaluation and player development and unfortunately the jury is still out on both of those for the Cavs and I might be being kind there.


There are a handful of teams with cap space next summer. Not all of them need a center and if Vlade wasn't incompetent, Atlanta would already have Dedmond back. Off the top of my head, Drummond, Whiteside, Ibaka, Gasol, and TT are all expiring. When the music stops, some, if not most of these folks are signing for the MLE.

If you want to do something useful, sign guys to one year overpays so they can be traded for cap space heading into 2021. Or better yet, do what the Knicks did and overpay guys on 1 & 1 deals with a T.O. Just don't make all of them PFs. Start off with team friendly offers on longer deals and if they're not accepted wait and see who is left when the little space that's out there dries up. Also, even in weak F.A. classes, teams looking to compete have needs that need to be addressed and will pay to clear space that addresses those needs.

But more than anything, I don't want to get stuck with a good role player who is paid like a top-15 starter at his position, for four to five years, again. Those things become cyclical because you end up continuing to start players as the organization needs to justify the contract it handed out.

I also don't want to get stuck with a pouting TT because he believes he's a far more valuable player than he is. The truth is that while it's good that he gives maximum effort (something that understandably ebbs and flows over the course of an 82-game season) and is a good locker room presence, he's probably not in the NBA if the opposite of either of those conditions were true. A lazy TT, or a cancerous TT, is at best third string and most likely in China.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#406 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:10 am

To be crystal clear my POV is we should trade TT and try to find some Belein bigs ... definately take a good look at Dean Wade. But if we do want to bring him back, we can afford to pay him well above MLE as long as the years lineup with our rookie contracts so we have cap space when we may need it.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#407 » by jbk1234 » Mon Feb 3, 2020 11:07 pm

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#408 » by JonFromVA » Thu Feb 6, 2020 12:42 am

Isaiah Thomas of the Wizards has them both beat this season at 122.

They're all bad defenders by pretty much any measure, but individual DRtg is a pretty crappy stat.

I mean, you're basically asking which player on the worst defensive teams of all time has the fewest rebounds, blocks, and steals.

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