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Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I think he's more likely retained because you don't pay guys $10M per to be vet leaders. He'd have some value as a fifth guard on a league-minimum deal.

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jbk1234 wrote:

Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I think he's more likely retained because you don't pay guys $10M per to be vet leaders. He'd have some value as a fifth guard on a league-minimum deal.

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I think he will get more than league minimum tbh whether its here or elsewhere.

Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I don't really find KPJ's comments surprising. Delly isn't overly athletic or great at anything, so he has to be smarter and have more of a motor to be able to make it in the league. They aren't always the players you keep in a playoff rotation, but they are great for practice as well as exemplifying the motto "Hard work beats talent when talent hardly works" and gets the talent to practice harder if they don't want embarrassed.

Revenged25 wrote:

Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I don't really find KPJ's comments surprising. Delly isn't overly athletic or great at anything, so he has to be smarter and have more of a motor to be able to make it in the league. They aren't always the players you keep in a playoff rotation, but they are great for practice as well as exemplifying the motto "Hard work beats talent when talent hardly works" and gets the talent to practice harder if they don't want embarrassed.

Yeah, I get the feeling this coach is going to want to retain players like Delly for those reasons and because you can run plays for him and he will make things happen.
He aint gonna dominate the league but he is still capable to have a FVV type game on occasion if they let him.

SO tomorrow Cavs kick off their preseason and face ARGENTINA’S SAN LORENZO DE ALMAGRO 6pm RMF
I read Garland is out and they are taking it very slow with his body.
This is good in some ways but it also makes me a little bit nervous that he
is going to be injury prone given he has not played a meaningful bb game in
10-11 months.
I will be trusting the org for now by focusing on KPJ as I think he is going to shock the league
and potentially be the biggest steal of any draft since Jokic.
added a poll
I voted Zizic to have an early impact in the preseason far beyond the limited use we saw in the past.

I saw that Nance Jr. was also saying that KPJ is not just going to be good, but great.

Trailbreaker wrote:I saw that Nance Jr. was also saying that KPJ is not just going to be good, but great.

doesnt surprise me, ive been reading up on and following this kid for years . im still in shock a prospect of his caliber fell so far other than the potential for him getting distracted by what most disconnected business class would consider a bad influence from his past.
personally love the fact the Cavs are becoming excellent at player evaluations deep into the mental side of things where they were not scared off from kpj like the typical disconnected executives.

Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I heard they've been doing a lot of work in 3 different groups. KPJ and Delly may very well be in one of the secondary groups at this point.

Beilein hasn't announced a starting lineup yet, but Sexton-Garland-Osman-Love-Thompson seems like a likely starting point. With Windler out, KPJ should have a shot at SF minutes.

Stillwater wrote:

Revenged25 wrote:

Stillwater wrote:So is KPJ working out with Delly side by side for a likely non starter backup role yr 1. or is he just talking in general from early reps how much of an impact Delly has mentally on top of his motor.
It's probably all of those things I guess, but I think by mid season we could definitely see KPJ in the Starting job depends on Beilein , as far as Delly though I could see him retained more likely than shopped for these same reasons

I don't really find KPJ's comments surprising. Delly isn't overly athletic or great at anything, so he has to be smarter and have more of a motor to be able to make it in the league. They aren't always the players you keep in a playoff rotation, but they are great for practice as well as exemplifying the motto "Hard work beats talent when talent hardly works" and gets the talent to practice harder if they don't want embarrassed.

Yeah, I get the feeling this coach is going to want to retain players like Delly for those reasons and because you can run plays for him and he will make things happen.
He aint gonna dominate the league but he is still capable to have a FVV type game on occasion if they let him.

Unlike last year, Beilein is asking these guys to run an offense and give consistent effort on defense. The value of a player like Delly (if he can stay healthy) may very well skyrocket when his job isn't to create offense but help move the ball, be in the right place doing the right things, and knock down open shots.

It'll be very interesting to see how it really plays out, but if Beilein is able to adapt his ideas to the NBA; a lot of our perceptions may be shaken up as the team transitions from a train wreck where guys took turns to a team.

I am looking forward to this season more than last year... but still don't expect a ton of wins overall even if the team plays better, not for awhile anyway given the change in coaches, new players and players looking for their next c's etc where there will be some disgruntled personalities in the locker room, I also think some of the vets might be slow to accept Beileins basics of the game approach as echoed to some degree by some of the vets already . ( Beilein sounds like the type that may need to learn he is not dealing with college age kids anymore and he will have to earn vets respect)

?s=20

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?s=20

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good to see Darius out there considering they made it sound like they were not letting him play until 100% so must be fine.
i also was not surprised kpj got his as thats his game but the team offense was far far from resembling cohesion and this team and coach are going to have a rough couple of months imo

Stillwater wrote:I am looking forward to this season more than last year... but still don't expect a ton of wins overall even if the team plays better, not for awhile anyway given the change in coaches, new players and players looking for their next c's etc where there will be some disgruntled personalities in the locker room, I also think some of the vets might be slow to accept Beileins basics of the game approach as echoed to some degree by some of the vets already . ( Beilein sounds like the type that may need to learn he is not dealing with college age kids anymore and he will have to earn vets respect)

otoh, I heard one of the vets admitting they had a historically bad defense last year, and I don't remember that ever happening last year while it was happening. It only takes a little bit of humility to realize things have to change in a big way in order to correct all the things wrong with the team last year.

Plus it's not like they have the long-weary post season excuse ...

IMO, the only players with enough power to upset this apple cart are the top-picks (Sexton and Garland) and they both seem to be buying in to the college approach big time. Belein has a great opportunity here to lay a foundation.

Stillwater wrote:good to see Darius out there considering they made it sound like they were not letting him play until 100% so must be fine.
i also was not surprised kpj got his as thats his game but the team offense was far far from resembling cohesion and this team and coach are going to have a rough couple of months imo

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky we even got to see him workout before the draft. Considering he hasn't played ball in a year and even though we were playing an Argentinian development team ... he looked great and demonstrated the shooting, ball handling, and vision we've been told about. lol

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:good to see Darius out there considering they made it sound like they were not letting him play until 100% so must be fine.
i also was not surprised kpj got his as thats his game but the team offense was far far from resembling cohesion and this team and coach are going to have a rough couple of months imo

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky we even got to see him workout before the draft. Considering he hasn't played ball in a year and even though we were playing an Argentinian development team ... he looked great and demonstrated the shooting, ball handling, and vision we've been told about. lol

I guess, I mean I am glad he is healthy and I'm sure if he is still nursing a foot issue there is much more we can expect as to me he didn't look to be in the same game shape he was in before the injury, maybe he's just a month away from it, but could be more depending on the truth about his status.
He was always considered a score first prospect just like Sexton imo not a elite passer but I do think his bb iq is higher than Sextons was as a rookie from a pg position ball distribution seeing the floor perspective etc. I think with his pure stroke, savvy collection of finishing moves and ability to make plays from either backcourt position it actually makes him better served as the 2nd option playing off the pace setting Sexton or Osman with Love as the first option and others like KPJ being able to fill that 1st option role down the road

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:good to see Darius out there considering they made it sound like they were not letting him play until 100% so must be fine.
i also was not surprised kpj got his as thats his game but the team offense was far far from resembling cohesion and this team and coach are going to have a rough couple of months imo

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky we even got to see him workout before the draft. Considering he hasn't played ball in a year and even though we were playing an Argentinian development team ... he looked great and demonstrated the shooting, ball handling, and vision we've been told about. lol

I guess, I mean I am glad he is healthy and I'm sure if he is still nursing a foot issue there is much more we can expect as to me he didn't look to be in the same game shape he was in before the injury, maybe he's just a month away from it, but could be more depending on the truth about his status.
He was always considered a score first prospect just like Sexton imo not a elite passer but I do think his bb iq is higher than Sextons was as a rookie from a pg position ball distribution seeing the floor perspective etc. I think with his pure stroke, savvy collection of finishing moves and ability to make plays from either backcourt position it actually makes him better served as the 2nd option playing off the pace setting Sexton or Osman with Love as the first option and others like KPJ being able to fill that 1st option role down the road

Most PG's are score first in this day and age, but from everything I've heard Garland sees the floor better and is a much better playmaker than Sexton. We got a glimpse of that. So, if that means 5 apg or something like that, I'll gladly take it over the 3apg that Sexton was creating.

I also think it's an advantage that Garland has a slower game (even when 100%) so he will have more time to see what teammates are doing. Collin is a blur and will have to develop the ability to know where his teammates are while he's streaking to the hoop ... or learn to slow down.

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I guess we should consider ourselves lucky we even got to see him workout before the draft. Considering he hasn't played ball in a year and even though we were playing an Argentinian development team ... he looked great and demonstrated the shooting, ball handling, and vision we've been told about. lol

I guess, I mean I am glad he is healthy and I'm sure if he is still nursing a foot issue there is much more we can expect as to me he didn't look to be in the same game shape he was in before the injury, maybe he's just a month away from it, but could be more depending on the truth about his status.
He was always considered a score first prospect just like Sexton imo not a elite passer but I do think his bb iq is higher than Sextons was as a rookie from a pg position ball distribution seeing the floor perspective etc. I think with his pure stroke, savvy collection of finishing moves and ability to make plays from either backcourt position it actually makes him better served as the 2nd option playing off the pace setting Sexton or Osman with Love as the first option and others like KPJ being able to fill that 1st option role down the road

Most PG's are score first in this day and age, but from everything I've heard Garland sees the floor better and is a much better playmaker than Sexton. We got a glimpse of that. So, if that means 5 apg or something like that, I'll gladly take it over the 3apg that Sexton was creating.

I also think it's an advantage that Garland has a slower game (even when 100%) so he will have more time to see what teammates are doing. Collin is a blur and will have to develop the ability to know where his teammates are while he's streaking to the hoop ... or learn to slow down.

I have a very difficult time seeing Beilein using the traditional pg and sg roles in his offensive sets and think whatever guards are playing ( probably be 3 of them on most nights this season ) will each mix it up and not be one or the other as a lead ball handler or floor general...he likes to use versatile playmakers and that has to have been a factor in the number 5 selection this season. Not as a obvious replacement to Sexton at the 1.
I would trust Darius in that role a little more than Sexton only because that was his position for years whereas Sexton has been a combo guard pushed into the pg role t Bama and last season etc. but I don't see Beilein using them that way.

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:I guess, I mean I am glad he is healthy and I'm sure if he is still nursing a foot issue there is much more we can expect as to me he didn't look to be in the same game shape he was in before the injury, maybe he's just a month away from it, but could be more depending on the truth about his status.
He was always considered a score first prospect just like Sexton imo not a elite passer but I do think his bb iq is higher than Sextons was as a rookie from a pg position ball distribution seeing the floor perspective etc. I think with his pure stroke, savvy collection of finishing moves and ability to make plays from either backcourt position it actually makes him better served as the 2nd option playing off the pace setting Sexton or Osman with Love as the first option and others like KPJ being able to fill that 1st option role down the road

Most PG's are score first in this day and age, but from everything I've heard Garland sees the floor better and is a much better playmaker than Sexton. We got a glimpse of that. So, if that means 5 apg or something like that, I'll gladly take it over the 3apg that Sexton was creating.

I also think it's an advantage that Garland has a slower game (even when 100%) so he will have more time to see what teammates are doing. Collin is a blur and will have to develop the ability to know where his teammates are while he's streaking to the hoop ... or learn to slow down.

I have a very difficult time seeing Beilein using the traditional pg and sg roles in his offensive sets and think whatever guards are playing ( probably be 3 of them on most nights this season ) will each mix it up and not be one or the other as a lead ball handler or floor general...he likes to use versatile playmakers and that has to have been a factor in the number 5 selection this season. Not as a obvious replacement to Sexton at the 1.
I would trust Darius in that role a little more than Sexton only because that was his position for years whereas Sexton has been a combo guard pushed into the pg role t Bama and last season etc. but I don't see Beilein using them that way.

I'm not sure it matters ... given sufficient opportunities to handle the ball, I suspect Garland is going to generate more assists because he's better equipped to do it. Heck, Beilein's system may lead to Collin shooting more simply on principle. If he's encouraged to take a 50-50 shot, but not attempt a 50-50 pass ... seems to me that will mean more shots and less passes for Collin on his drives.

JonFromVA wrote:

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
Most PG's are score first in this day and age, but from everything I've heard Garland sees the floor better and is a much better playmaker than Sexton. We got a glimpse of that. So, if that means 5 apg or something like that, I'll gladly take it over the 3apg that Sexton was creating.

I also think it's an advantage that Garland has a slower game (even when 100%) so he will have more time to see what teammates are doing. Collin is a blur and will have to develop the ability to know where his teammates are while he's streaking to the hoop ... or learn to slow down.

I have a very difficult time seeing Beilein using the traditional pg and sg roles in his offensive sets and think whatever guards are playing ( probably be 3 of them on most nights this season ) will each mix it up and not be one or the other as a lead ball handler or floor general...he likes to use versatile playmakers and that has to have been a factor in the number 5 selection this season. Not as a obvious replacement to Sexton at the 1.
I would trust Darius in that role a little more than Sexton only because that was his position for years whereas Sexton has been a combo guard pushed into the pg role t Bama and last season etc. but I don't see Beilein using them that way.

I'm not sure it matters ... given sufficient opportunities to handle the ball, I suspect Garland is going to generate more assists because he's better equipped to do it. Heck, Beilein's system may lead to Collin shooting more simply on principle. If he's encouraged to take a 50-50 shot, but not attempt a 50-50 pass ... seems to me that will mean more shots and less passes for Collin on his drives.

I am not so sure I agree he is better though, given Sexton had entire offseason of grinding out drills to improve in that area and to understand where his vets want the ball etc not to mention Darius Garland was never an efficient passer despite seeing the floor well.