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Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#381 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:13 am

I wonder if CLE will use any of the 3 TPE's that expire early next month on anyone? Hood one is $3,472,887
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#382 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:51 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I like Dallas as a fit. Take back Courtney Lee and either Justin Jackson or Isaiah Roby, possibly both. It would give them someone that can play on the perimeter defensively letting Zingas be a shot blocker on defense and would help with offensive rebounding while Zinger moves out to the perimeter taking advantage of a range.


I think I'd rather have a good second than a middling prospect half way through his rookie contract.

you talking about Jackson right? I mean Roby is hard to peg not sure if he is a good fit here or there, but Jackson is serviceable if a high 2nd was attached and they didn't get any better offers. I mean DAL probably would do it


Let me put it this way, if the GS 2nd was on the table, I'm taking that over the other choices.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#383 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:03 pm

Fedor reported out that Bickerstaff is actually in charge of the Cavs rotations. There's been more than a few times this year where he's done his head coach no favors when it's come to match up issues.

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#384 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:56 pm

It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#385 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:42 pm


so in other words he has an ear issue and cannot keep his balance , his balance often looked in question imo, I wonder how long this has been going on
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#386 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:

so in other words he has an ear issue and cannot keep his balance , his balance often looked in question imo, I wonder how long this has been going on


Probably since Plumlee punched him in the head ...

In other news McKinnie is back on another 10 day contract. I thought they were dumping him because he was playing too well or something, but apparently I just need a decoder ring to figure out Altman's G-league contract manipulations.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#387 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:53 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:

so in other words he has an ear issue and cannot keep his balance , his balance often looked in question imo, I wonder how long this has been going on


Probably since Plumlee punched him in the head ...

In other news McKinnie is back on another 10 day contract. I thought they were dumping him because he was playing too well or something, but apparently I just need a decoder ring to figure out Altman's G-league contract manipulations.


McKinnie is worth holding onto IMO.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#388 » by Stillwater » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:03 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:

so in other words he has an ear issue and cannot keep his balance , his balance often looked in question imo, I wonder how long this has been going on


Probably since Plumlee punched him in the head ...

In other news McKinnie is back on another 10 day contract. I thought they were dumping him because he was playing too well or something, but apparently I just need a decoder ring to figure out Altman's G-league contract manipulations.


lol I guess I missed the plumlee punching him in the head// must have been garbage time.
I am willing to bet Zo was more than content being on this roster and being a part of the rebuild but now who knows...
I would have just kept him as a std contract , but I get the need to be able to open up a spot immediately. I mean they could need the spot for incoming then turn said incoming into a waived player and bring Zo back again right after. same goes for Cook who at minimum fits a need for a high energy forward that has the strength to play 3/4 off the bench for this team long term
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#389 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:22 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:so in other words he has an ear issue and cannot keep his balance , his balance often looked in question imo, I wonder how long this has been going on


Probably since Plumlee punched him in the head ...

In other news McKinnie is back on another 10 day contract. I thought they were dumping him because he was playing too well or something, but apparently I just need a decoder ring to figure out Altman's G-league contract manipulations.


McKinnie is worth holding onto IMO.


Well, he's certainly useful given our injury situation, but he's already 27 years old. Stranger things have happened, but I wouldn't be counting on much upside with him.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#390 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:03 am

These rumors about us signing TT to a long term deal better be us posturing. The only reason he stays would be money and that would necessarily mean we're paying him above market, again.

It's time to move on. He's a small ball 5 in a league that increasingly has more seven footers. He'd be decent value at $8-10M per. He wants more than that, probably a lot more.

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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#391 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:10 am

jbk1234 wrote:These rumors about us signing TT to a long term deal better be us posturing. The only reason he stays would be money and that would necessarily mean we're paying him above market, again.

It's time to move on. He's a small ball 5 in a league that increasingly has more seven footers. He'd be decent value at $8-10M per. He wants more than that, probably a lot more.

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The MLE is like $9M ... if we don't offer more than that he'll just go to a team with it.

Personally I'd pay him a little extra for some semblance of veteran leadership and the opportunity to be a lifer.

Plus we probably won't have anything better to do with the money.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#392 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:39 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:These rumors about us signing TT to a long term deal better be us posturing. The only reason he stays would be money and that would necessarily mean we're paying him above market, again.

It's time to move on. He's a small ball 5 in a league that increasingly has more seven footers. He'd be decent value at $8-10M per. He wants more than that, probably a lot more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


The MLE is like $9M ... if we don't offer more than that he'll just go to a team with it.

Personally I'd pay him a little extra for some semblance of veteran leadership and the opportunity to be a lifer.

Plus we probably won't have anything better to do with the money.


The worst mistake bad or middling teams make is giving well-above-market-long-term contracts to guys like TT. If you're the high bidder at an auction, everyone else has concluded that the item is worth less than you. Tristan is objectively worth somewhere around the MLE.

He can't effectively play for extended periods against larger 7 foot centers. His limited offense becomes non-existent. Only it's worse than playing 4 on 5 because the way TT plays allows the other team's shot blocking center to stay in the paint and play center field.

Defensively he's no better a rim protector than when the Cavs drafted him. He was only 20 and the Cavs hoped he'd grow a couple more inches. He didn't. People talk about Bam being an all star but Butler is starting to make noise about the Heat's defense. The reality is that t's hard to have a good defensive team with an undersized center. Opposing teams aren't intimidated from taking it to the rim. His PNR defense and ability to switch on wings are both good, but his post defense against skilled big men is very meh.

Yes, he has a good work ethic and he's a good guy to have in the locker room. That's worth a couple million per more. It's most certainly not a 2X or 3X multiplier when it comes to salary and I'd bet that's Klutch's position. Also, as I'm sure everyone has noticed, it's hard to keep up that high energy play up as a starter over an 82 game. A lot of TT's added value comes in the post-season as a rotation piece that can either create match up problems for the other team or respond to match up issues you're having with your current line up. The Cavs aren't going to be in the playoffs anytime soon and it's hard for playoff teams to justify paying him starter money for that role.

In a player's market, with a team assigning max value to all his intangibles, TT is objectively worth no more than $12M per and he shouldn't be signed for longer than three more years given his age. The Cavs definitely shouldn't fill that slot past the summer of 2021 and sacrifice their ability to trade cap space for picks. It would be insanity to give him a five year deal at 28 years of age. He'll be harder to move than Love on a contract like that. TT was an RFA in a summer where gobs of money were handed out and didn't sign an offer sheet. It was only two seasons ago that no one would touch him on his current deal. We've gone from he needs a max deal to stay so he's probably leaving to he really wants to stay in weeks. There's a zero percent chance that Klutch hasn't already taken the temperature on the market and determined that the Cavs have made the best offer by a considerable margin. I'd much rather overpay vets on one year deals and be able to trade their expiring contracts year after year until we have some core to actually build around.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#393 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:55 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:These rumors about us signing TT to a long term deal better be us posturing. The only reason he stays would be money and that would necessarily mean we're paying him above market, again.

It's time to move on. He's a small ball 5 in a league that increasingly has more seven footers. He'd be decent value at $8-10M per. He wants more than that, probably a lot more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


The MLE is like $9M ... if we don't offer more than that he'll just go to a team with it.

Personally I'd pay him a little extra for some semblance of veteran leadership and the opportunity to be a lifer.

Plus we probably won't have anything better to do with the money.


The worst mistake bad or middling teams make is giving well-above-market-long-term contracts to guys like TT. If you're the high bidder at an auction, everyone else has concluded that the item is worth less than you. Tristan is objectively worth somewhere around the MLE.

He can't effectively play for extended periods against larger 7 foot centers. His limited offense becomes non-existent. Only it's worse than playing 4 on 5 because the way TT plays allows the other team's shot blocking center to stay in the paint and play center field.

Defensively he's no better a rim protector than when the Cavs drafted him. He was only 20 and the Cavs hoped he'd grow a couple more inches. He didn't. People talk about Bam being an all star but Butler is starting to make noise about the Heat's defense. The reality is that t's hard to have a good defensive team with an undersized center. Opposing teams aren't intimidated from taking it to the rim. His PNR defense and ability to switch on wings are both good, but his post defense against skilled big men is very meh.

Yes, he has a good work ethic and he's a good guy to have in the locker room. That's worth a couple million per more. It's most certainly not a 2X or 3X multiplier when it comes to salary and I'd bet that's Klutch's position. Also, as I'm sure everyone has noticed, it's hard to keep up that high energy play up as a starter over an 82 game. A lot of TT's added value comes in the post-season as a rotation piece that can either create match up problems for the other team or respond to match up issues you're having with your current line up. The Cavs aren't going to be in the playoffs anytime soon and it's hard for playoff teams to justify paying him starter money for that role.

In a player's market, with a team assigning max value to all his intangibles, TT is objectively worth no more than $12M per and he shouldn't be signed for longer than three more years given his age. The Cavs definitely shouldn't fill that slot past the summer of 2021 and sacrifice their ability to trade cap space for picks. It would be insanity to give him a five year deal at 28 years of age. He'll be harder to move than Love on a contract like that. TT was an RFA in a summer where gobs of money were handed out and didn't sign an offer sheet. It was only two seasons ago that no one would touch him on his current deal. We've gone from he needs a max deal to stay so he's probably leaving to he really wants to stay in weeks. There's a zero percent chance that Klutch hasn't already taken the temperature on the market and determined that the Cavs have made the best offer by a considerable margin. I'd much rather overpay vets on one year deals and be able to trade their expiring contracts year after year until we have some core to actually build around.


I'm sure the Cavs and most of the fan base would be happy with a $12M deal, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

For instance, consider some of his peers:

JV just got a $15M deal, Ibaka is wrapping up a $22M deal, Kanter was making $20M a couple years ago, but now he's getting just $5M.

As for Tristan's last free-agency, I don't think there's much to take away from that. The Cavs were hoping he'd take an offer from someone else so they could match it; and not only didn't he end up with the max, he only got a little more than he was originally going to accept when Draymond's deal made him greedy.

Which isn't to say there aren't red flags here:
- This is a contract year for Tristan. He didn't show this energy level the past few years and could regress, or find another Kardassian.
- He could have entered negotiations on an extension, but he decided he wanted to see what he can get in free-agency.
- It seems likely that given the chance he will sign with the Lakers and join LeBron.
- If he's just playing hard for his next deal somewhere else, we should deal him for any offer worth the bother.

I'm not personally worried about tying up money in either Tristan or Kevin as long as they want to be here through the rebuild. In the short term, we have money, and nothing really to spend it on besides absorbing bad contracts - and there's only so many of those.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#394 » by Stillwater » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:21 pm

I would not pay TT more than a 1+1 and even then it would not be an overpay at all. there is no justification in paying him starting role player $ on a contender wages like he expects when they are in the beginning of a long rebuild.They could very well draft the center of the future this summer too.
TT will not be on this roster after the 20-21 season regardless of what happens this summer though I'd put $ on it.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#395 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:06 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The MLE is like $9M ... if we don't offer more than that he'll just go to a team with it.

Personally I'd pay him a little extra for some semblance of veteran leadership and the opportunity to be a lifer.

Plus we probably won't have anything better to do with the money.


The worst mistake bad or middling teams make is giving well-above-market-long-term contracts to guys like TT. If you're the high bidder at an auction, everyone else has concluded that the item is worth less than you. Tristan is objectively worth somewhere around the MLE.

He can't effectively play for extended periods against larger 7 foot centers. His limited offense becomes non-existent. Only it's worse than playing 4 on 5 because the way TT plays allows the other team's shot blocking center to stay in the paint and play center field.

Defensively he's no better a rim protector than when the Cavs drafted him. He was only 20 and the Cavs hoped he'd grow a couple more inches. He didn't. People talk about Bam being an all star but Butler is starting to make noise about the Heat's defense. The reality is that t's hard to have a good defensive team with an undersized center. Opposing teams aren't intimidated from taking it to the rim. His PNR defense and ability to switch on wings are both good, but his post defense against skilled big men is very meh.

Yes, he has a good work ethic and he's a good guy to have in the locker room. That's worth a couple million per more. It's most certainly not a 2X or 3X multiplier when it comes to salary and I'd bet that's Klutch's position. Also, as I'm sure everyone has noticed, it's hard to keep up that high energy play up as a starter over an 82 game. A lot of TT's added value comes in the post-season as a rotation piece that can either create match up problems for the other team or respond to match up issues you're having with your current line up. The Cavs aren't going to be in the playoffs anytime soon and it's hard for playoff teams to justify paying him starter money for that role.

In a player's market, with a team assigning max value to all his intangibles, TT is objectively worth no more than $12M per and he shouldn't be signed for longer than three more years given his age. The Cavs definitely shouldn't fill that slot past the summer of 2021 and sacrifice their ability to trade cap space for picks. It would be insanity to give him a five year deal at 28 years of age. He'll be harder to move than Love on a contract like that. TT was an RFA in a summer where gobs of money were handed out and didn't sign an offer sheet. It was only two seasons ago that no one would touch him on his current deal. We've gone from he needs a max deal to stay so he's probably leaving to he really wants to stay in weeks. There's a zero percent chance that Klutch hasn't already taken the temperature on the market and determined that the Cavs have made the best offer by a considerable margin. I'd much rather overpay vets on one year deals and be able to trade their expiring contracts year after year until we have some core to actually build around.


I'm sure the Cavs and most of the fan base would be happy with a $12M deal, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

For instance, consider some of his peers:

JV just got a $15M deal, Ibaka is wrapping up a $22M deal, Kanter was making $20M a couple years ago, but now he's getting just $5M.


If the Cavs don't give TT $12M per, who will? I'm not being flippant. I mean you're literally seeing the trend line here with respect to centers who aren't franchise players. There's a very good chance that if TT doesn't sign with the Cavs, he plays for the MLE and frankly, I'm fine losing him to a team that wants to pay him even JV money on a long-term deal. Dedman went from a coveted player to a guy that maybe one team in the NBA is interested in because he's owed $13M per over two years. Randle probably has negative value while owed $20M per over two years. Homes makes less than 1/3rd of TT's deal and puts up very comparable numbers.

Here's a list of centers and what they give you.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2020/Averages/Qualified/points/C/desc/1/Regular_Season

Ask yourself how many of those guys are going to sign new contracts that are anywhere close to what they're making now. Ibaka, Gasol, Drummond, and even Adams are all taking serious haircuts on their next deals. There are basically three centers in the NBA who would get paid max money, or even near max money, from another NBA team.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#396 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:35 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The worst mistake bad or middling teams make is giving well-above-market-long-term contracts to guys like TT. If you're the high bidder at an auction, everyone else has concluded that the item is worth less than you. Tristan is objectively worth somewhere around the MLE.

He can't effectively play for extended periods against larger 7 foot centers. His limited offense becomes non-existent. Only it's worse than playing 4 on 5 because the way TT plays allows the other team's shot blocking center to stay in the paint and play center field.

Defensively he's no better a rim protector than when the Cavs drafted him. He was only 20 and the Cavs hoped he'd grow a couple more inches. He didn't. People talk about Bam being an all star but Butler is starting to make noise about the Heat's defense. The reality is that t's hard to have a good defensive team with an undersized center. Opposing teams aren't intimidated from taking it to the rim. His PNR defense and ability to switch on wings are both good, but his post defense against skilled big men is very meh.

Yes, he has a good work ethic and he's a good guy to have in the locker room. That's worth a couple million per more. It's most certainly not a 2X or 3X multiplier when it comes to salary and I'd bet that's Klutch's position. Also, as I'm sure everyone has noticed, it's hard to keep up that high energy play up as a starter over an 82 game. A lot of TT's added value comes in the post-season as a rotation piece that can either create match up problems for the other team or respond to match up issues you're having with your current line up. The Cavs aren't going to be in the playoffs anytime soon and it's hard for playoff teams to justify paying him starter money for that role.

In a player's market, with a team assigning max value to all his intangibles, TT is objectively worth no more than $12M per and he shouldn't be signed for longer than three more years given his age. The Cavs definitely shouldn't fill that slot past the summer of 2021 and sacrifice their ability to trade cap space for picks. It would be insanity to give him a five year deal at 28 years of age. He'll be harder to move than Love on a contract like that. TT was an RFA in a summer where gobs of money were handed out and didn't sign an offer sheet. It was only two seasons ago that no one would touch him on his current deal. We've gone from he needs a max deal to stay so he's probably leaving to he really wants to stay in weeks. There's a zero percent chance that Klutch hasn't already taken the temperature on the market and determined that the Cavs have made the best offer by a considerable margin. I'd much rather overpay vets on one year deals and be able to trade their expiring contracts year after year until we have some core to actually build around.


I'm sure the Cavs and most of the fan base would be happy with a $12M deal, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

For instance, consider some of his peers:

JV just got a $15M deal, Ibaka is wrapping up a $22M deal, Kanter was making $20M a couple years ago, but now he's getting just $5M.


If the Cavs don't give TT $12M per, who will? I'm not being flippant. I mean you're literally seeing the trend line here with respect to centers who aren't franchise players. There's a very good chance that if TT doesn't sign with the Cavs, he plays for the MLE and frankly, I'm fine losing him to a team that wants to pay him even JV money on a long-term deal. Dedman went from a coveted player to a guy that maybe one team in the NBA is interested in because he's owed $13M per over two years. Randle probably has negative value while owed $20M per over two years. Homes makes less than 1/3rd of TT's deal and puts up very comparable numbers.

Here's a list of centers and what they give you.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2020/Averages/Qualified/points/C/desc/1/Regular_Season

Ask yourself how many of those guys are going to sign new contracts that are anywhere close to what they're making now. Ibaka, Gasol, Drummond, and even Adams are all taking serious haircuts on their next deals. There are basically three centers in the NBA who would get paid max money, or even near max money, from another NBA team.


I haven't tried to analyze the 2020 free agent market. Maybe teams with money will be hording it for future classes, maybe this is the year a correction happens, but Philly is paying Al Horford around $27M/yr until he's 36 with just a partial guarantee in that last year.

Come playoff time, I'd feel pretty good sticking 28yr old Tristan Thompson on 33yr old Al Horford.

Anyway, I'd focus more on the fact that TT doesn't want to negotiate an extension than the number. Money isn't a problem for us as long as the guys we spend it on have the right mindset and aren't going to force us to trade them. It would be nice to be able to buy low and sell high, but easier said then done for a team like the Cavs (short of developing prospects).
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#397 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:27 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm sure the Cavs and most of the fan base would be happy with a $12M deal, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

For instance, consider some of his peers:

JV just got a $15M deal, Ibaka is wrapping up a $22M deal, Kanter was making $20M a couple years ago, but now he's getting just $5M.


If the Cavs don't give TT $12M per, who will? I'm not being flippant. I mean you're literally seeing the trend line here with respect to centers who aren't franchise players. There's a very good chance that if TT doesn't sign with the Cavs, he plays for the MLE and frankly, I'm fine losing him to a team that wants to pay him even JV money on a long-term deal. Dedman went from a coveted player to a guy that maybe one team in the NBA is interested in because he's owed $13M per over two years. Randle probably has negative value while owed $20M per over two years. Homes makes less than 1/3rd of TT's deal and puts up very comparable numbers.

Here's a list of centers and what they give you.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2020/Averages/Qualified/points/C/desc/1/Regular_Season

Ask yourself how many of those guys are going to sign new contracts that are anywhere close to what they're making now. Ibaka, Gasol, Drummond, and even Adams are all taking serious haircuts on their next deals. There are basically three centers in the NBA who would get paid max money, or even near max money, from another NBA team.


I haven't tried to analyze the 2020 free agent market. Maybe teams with money will be hording it for future classes, maybe this is the year a correction happens, but Philly is paying Al Horford around $27M/yr until he's 36 with just a partial guarantee in that last year.

Come playoff time, I'd feel pretty good sticking 28yr old Tristan Thompson on 33yr old Al Horford.

Anyway, I'd focus more on the fact that TT doesn't want to negotiate an extension than the number. Money isn't a problem for us as long as the guys we spend it on have the right mindset and aren't going to force us to trade them. It would be nice to be able to buy low and sell high, but easier said then done for a team like the Cavs (short of developing prospects).


I don't think citing a contract that Philly can't trade without attaching significant value is making the point you think it's making. They already realize they've made a huge mistake.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#398 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:59 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If the Cavs don't give TT $12M per, who will? I'm not being flippant. I mean you're literally seeing the trend line here with respect to centers who aren't franchise players. There's a very good chance that if TT doesn't sign with the Cavs, he plays for the MLE and frankly, I'm fine losing him to a team that wants to pay him even JV money on a long-term deal. Dedman went from a coveted player to a guy that maybe one team in the NBA is interested in because he's owed $13M per over two years. Randle probably has negative value while owed $20M per over two years. Homes makes less than 1/3rd of TT's deal and puts up very comparable numbers.

Here's a list of centers and what they give you.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2020/Averages/Qualified/points/C/desc/1/Regular_Season

Ask yourself how many of those guys are going to sign new contracts that are anywhere close to what they're making now. Ibaka, Gasol, Drummond, and even Adams are all taking serious haircuts on their next deals. There are basically three centers in the NBA who would get paid max money, or even near max money, from another NBA team.


I haven't tried to analyze the 2020 free agent market. Maybe teams with money will be hording it for future classes, maybe this is the year a correction happens, but Philly is paying Al Horford around $27M/yr until he's 36 with just a partial guarantee in that last year.

Come playoff time, I'd feel pretty good sticking 28yr old Tristan Thompson on 33yr old Al Horford.

Anyway, I'd focus more on the fact that TT doesn't want to negotiate an extension than the number. Money isn't a problem for us as long as the guys we spend it on have the right mindset and aren't going to force us to trade them. It would be nice to be able to buy low and sell high, but easier said then done for a team like the Cavs (short of developing prospects).


I don't think citing a contract that Philly can't trade without attaching significant value is making the point you think it's making. They already realize they've made a huge mistake.


Oh it does ... free agency inflates the value of players due to scarcity. It only takes one GM with money and need and someone will get paid.

So there's a decent chance Tristan will get overpaid ... but if he falls through the cracks, maybe could trade him and still get him back.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#399 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I haven't tried to analyze the 2020 free agent market. Maybe teams with money will be hording it for future classes, maybe this is the year a correction happens, but Philly is paying Al Horford around $27M/yr until he's 36 with just a partial guarantee in that last year.

Come playoff time, I'd feel pretty good sticking 28yr old Tristan Thompson on 33yr old Al Horford.

Anyway, I'd focus more on the fact that TT doesn't want to negotiate an extension than the number. Money isn't a problem for us as long as the guys we spend it on have the right mindset and aren't going to force us to trade them. It would be nice to be able to buy low and sell high, but easier said then done for a team like the Cavs (short of developing prospects).


I don't think citing a contract that Philly can't trade without attaching significant value is making the point you think it's making. They already realize they've made a huge mistake.


Oh it does ... free agency inflates the value of players due to scarcity. It only takes one GM with money and need and someone will get paid.

So there's a decent chance Tristan will get overpaid ... but if he falls through the cracks, maybe could trade him and still get him back.
The idea that other teams will sign players to contracts that will instantly cause a player to have negative trade value, so we should to, is one I find deeply flawed.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season 

Post#400 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I don't think citing a contract that Philly can't trade without attaching significant value is making the point you think it's making. They already realize they've made a huge mistake.


Oh it does ... free agency inflates the value of players due to scarcity. It only takes one GM with money and need and someone will get paid.

So there's a decent chance Tristan will get overpaid ... but if he falls through the cracks, maybe could trade him and still get him back.
The idea that other teams will sign players to contracts that will instantly cause a player to have negative trade value, so we should to, is one I find deeply flawed.


Irrelevant... we wouldn't be signing Tristan to trade him and if your looking for "deals" in free agency your city had better be a "destination" for superstars or you'd better wait out the other teams and see what's left.

Teams like us overpay or get scraps in free-agency.

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