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Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton

Moderator: jbk1234

Do you approve or disapprove of the Collin Sexton pick?

Approve
15
54%
Disapprove
8
29%
Undecided
5
18%
 
Total votes: 28

Revenged25
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#121 » by Revenged25 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 2:28 pm

Stillwater wrote:2nd year in a row he has come out firing on all cylinders in March.The vision is definitely improved moving back into a role requiring more use of it where it's evedent. Playing off ball has forced him to up his game and the Cavs are the beneficiary of the results. Even if just by drafting Garland it has challenged Sexton to become better it's a win.
Few have stood by this kid more than me, I see the same work ethic and hunger in his eyes as when I look at myself. I've been counted out my entire life and it requires a passionate mindset to come out a winner


How many assists would he have had last night if people didn't miss wide open 3's that he dished to them after driving? I remember at least 2 that Osman missed.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#122 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:11 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:2nd year in a row he has come out firing on all cylinders in March.The vision is definitely improved moving back into a role requiring more use of it where it's evedent. Playing off ball has forced him to up his game and the Cavs are the beneficiary of the results. Even if just by drafting Garland it has challenged Sexton to become better it's a win.
Few have stood by this kid more than me, I see the same work ethic and hunger in his eyes as when I look at myself. I've been counted out my entire life and it requires a passionate mindset to come out a winner


How many assists would he have had last night if people didn't miss wide open 3's that he dished to them after driving? I remember at least 2 that Osman missed.
at least 12
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#123 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 1:31 am

One of the tricks to winning games isn't getting the ball to an ice cold shooter like Delly or Cedi (albeit it looked like Cedi was warming up) ... but ideally creating a shot to a hot shooter, or creating an easy layup or dunk.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#124 » by Revenged25 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 1:45 am

JonFromVA wrote:One of the tricks to winning games isn't getting the ball to an ice cold shooter like Delly or Cedi (albeit it looked like Cedi was warming up) ... but ideally creating a shot to a hot shooter, or creating an easy layup or dunk.


I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#125 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 4:54 am

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:One of the tricks to winning games isn't getting the ball to an ice cold shooter like Delly or Cedi (albeit it looked like Cedi was warming up) ... but ideally creating a shot to a hot shooter, or creating an easy layup or dunk.


I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.


I'm sorry ... was Sexton getting awarded with potential assists when he was turning over the ball and taking bad shots in crunch time?

Admittedly the game was more enjoyable than getting blown out by 30, but putting up points in a loss doesn't impress me all that much.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#126 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 2:31 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:One of the tricks to winning games isn't getting the ball to an ice cold shooter like Delly or Cedi (albeit it looked like Cedi was warming up) ... but ideally creating a shot to a hot shooter, or creating an easy layup or dunk.


I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.


I'm sorry ... was Sexton getting awarded with potential assists when he was turning over the ball and taking bad shots in crunch time?

Admittedly the game was more enjoyable than getting blown out by 30, but putting up points in a loss doesn't impress me all that much.

Yep Boston knows how to finish games like Smarts flop call. Sexton will have to learn how to better take advantage of poor referees like most of the high scoring guards do.i mean he has started to but still doesn't get the calls.
I think it's odd given how lenient you have been with Garland that you wouldn't be happy Sexton actually looks like a legit pg in his absence.
DG might have a opposite trajectory towards being the scorer off the bench or maybe he will get traded, but after seeing how good Sexton was calling the game sans the fumbles in crunch time I don't know how anyone would put him back off ball without being forced too by the front office for DG trade value retention.
They might have to trade Sexton to get anything of value back , and if they do DG will have to have been a lot better than he has been pretty quickly or somebody vis losing their job because Sexton is proving his trajectory is very high...all NBA possible for certain. How anyone can look at all he has improved and not think that must just not understand anything can be accomplished when you have an org dedicated to allowing a relentless worker reach his ceiling.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#127 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 3:29 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I bet you're a ton of fun at parties.


I'm sorry ... was Sexton getting awarded with potential assists when he was turning over the ball and taking bad shots in crunch time?

Admittedly the game was more enjoyable than getting blown out by 30, but putting up points in a loss doesn't impress me all that much.

Yep Boston knows how to finish games like Smarts flop call. Sexton will have to learn how to better take advantage of poor referees like most of the high scoring guards do.i mean he has started to but still doesn't get the calls.
I think it's odd given how lenient you have been with Garland that you wouldn't be happy Sexton actually looks like a legit pg in his absence.
DG might have a opposite trajectory towards being the scorer off the bench or maybe he will get traded, but after seeing how good Sexton was calling the game sans the fumbles in crunch time I don't know how anyone would put him back off ball without being forced too by the front office for DG trade value retention.
They might have to trade Sexton to get anything of value back , and if they do DG will have to have been a lot better than he has been pretty quickly or somebody vis losing their job because Sexton is proving his trajectory is very high...all NBA possible for certain. How anyone can look at all he has improved and not think that must just not understand anything can be accomplished when you have an org dedicated to allowing a relentless worker reach his ceiling.


I'm certainly happy Sexton is continuing to show improvement and expand his game, but a PG isn't made from one game, and I'm still waiting to see him actually make the team better when he's on the floor.

Even as a scorer, Collin hasn't been truly tested yet. Once Kyrie started winning games for the Cavs, opponents started game planning him. That was in his rookie year. Collin is only getting an inkling of what it's like when a defense focuses on stopping him at the end of our occasional close games.

So, no, I'm not worried about anyone losing their job at this point. Darius has helped us pull out a number of our wins with timely shots, passes, and scores. We need more players clicking more often, not fewer.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#128 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 5:14 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm sorry ... was Sexton getting awarded with potential assists when he was turning over the ball and taking bad shots in crunch time?

Admittedly the game was more enjoyable than getting blown out by 30, but putting up points in a loss doesn't impress me all that much.

Yep Boston knows how to finish games like Smarts flop call. Sexton will have to learn how to better take advantage of poor referees like most of the high scoring guards do.i mean he has started to but still doesn't get the calls.
I think it's odd given how lenient you have been with Garland that you wouldn't be happy Sexton actually looks like a legit pg in his absence.
DG might have a opposite trajectory towards being the scorer off the bench or maybe he will get traded, but after seeing how good Sexton was calling the game sans the fumbles in crunch time I don't know how anyone would put him back off ball without being forced too by the front office for DG trade value retention.
They might have to trade Sexton to get anything of value back , and if they do DG will have to have been a lot better than he has been pretty quickly or somebody vis losing their job because Sexton is proving his trajectory is very high...all NBA possible for certain. How anyone can look at all he has improved and not think that must just not understand anything can be accomplished when you have an org dedicated to allowing a relentless worker reach his ceiling.


I'm certainly happy Sexton is continuing to show improvement and expand his game, but a PG isn't made from one game, and I'm still waiting to see him actually make the team better when he's on the floor.

Even as a scorer, Collin hasn't been truly tested yet. Once Kyrie started winning games for the Cavs, opponents started game planning him. That was in his rookie year. Collin is only getting an inkling of what it's like when a defense focuses on stopping him at the end of our occasional close games.

So, no, I'm not worried about anyone losing their job at this point. Darius has helped us pull out a number of our wins with timely shots, passes, and scores. We need more players clicking more often, not fewer.

Garland has had a total of maybe 10 good quarters this entire season as the starting point guard and as the initiator of the offense he's obviously got a high basketball IQ but he does not have the physical ability to be an NBA point guard at this point so the only question is does he have the same work ethic as Collin Sexton because he's already proven he doesn't have the same durability.
I would really love to know what exactly was going through this front office brain when they drafted Darius Garland and what did they see him doing for this org long-term. I'd be willing to bet that they expected Sexton was not going to be this good this fast or they would not have moved him off point and replaced him with someone who they thought would be but hasn't been.
The past two game Sexton is proving that he is already improved significantly because he is running the tea and he's doing it very well for somebody who wasn't expected to ever be good at it and obviously continues to get slept on even by his own fan base congratulations
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#129 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 6:03 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Yep Boston knows how to finish games like Smarts flop call. Sexton will have to learn how to better take advantage of poor referees like most of the high scoring guards do.i mean he has started to but still doesn't get the calls.
I think it's odd given how lenient you have been with Garland that you wouldn't be happy Sexton actually looks like a legit pg in his absence.
DG might have a opposite trajectory towards being the scorer off the bench or maybe he will get traded, but after seeing how good Sexton was calling the game sans the fumbles in crunch time I don't know how anyone would put him back off ball without being forced too by the front office for DG trade value retention.
They might have to trade Sexton to get anything of value back , and if they do DG will have to have been a lot better than he has been pretty quickly or somebody vis losing their job because Sexton is proving his trajectory is very high...all NBA possible for certain. How anyone can look at all he has improved and not think that must just not understand anything can be accomplished when you have an org dedicated to allowing a relentless worker reach his ceiling.


I'm certainly happy Sexton is continuing to show improvement and expand his game, but a PG isn't made from one game, and I'm still waiting to see him actually make the team better when he's on the floor.

Even as a scorer, Collin hasn't been truly tested yet. Once Kyrie started winning games for the Cavs, opponents started game planning him. That was in his rookie year. Collin is only getting an inkling of what it's like when a defense focuses on stopping him at the end of our occasional close games.

So, no, I'm not worried about anyone losing their job at this point. Darius has helped us pull out a number of our wins with timely shots, passes, and scores. We need more players clicking more often, not fewer.

Garland has had a total of maybe 10 good quarters this entire season as the starting point guard and as the initiator of the offense he's obviously got a high basketball IQ but he does not have the physical ability to be an NBA point guard at this point so the only question is does he have the same work ethic as Collin Sexton because he's already proven he doesn't have the same durability.
I would really love to know what exactly was going through this front office brain when they drafted Darius Garland and what did they see him doing for this org long-term. I'd be willing to bet that they expected Sexton was not going to be this good this fast or they would not have moved him off point and replaced him with someone who they thought would be but hasn't been.
The past two game Sexton is proving that he is already improved significantly because he is running the tea and he's doing it very well for somebody who wasn't expected to ever be good at it and obviously continues to get slept on even by his own fan base congratulations


Darius while clearly lacking in physically strength/girth/whatever and getting worn down by the season/minutes, has been constantly improving on defense. His shooting which was starting to come around has regressed - and that's likely fatigue related. Because of that he's played cautiously, but yet because he tries on defense, moves the ball, and is a threat to bury an open J ... he's had the most positive court time of ANY of our starters or rooks.

But 10 good quarters you say? What exactly do you consider a good quarter?

In my book, a good quarter is one where your group scores more than the other team. Team game!

And that in a nutshell is why the Cavs weren't ready to commit to Collin as their PG of the future and drafted Darius. Collin was already showing great promise as a scorer last year, but there's a lot more to running a team and playing winning basketball than that.

You look at these past 2 games and see 73 points and 9 assists, while I see -12 and a pair of losses.

If Collin was as good as you think and Garland as bad as you think, the on/off numbers would not look like this.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#130 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 7:03 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm certainly happy Sexton is continuing to show improvement and expand his game, but a PG isn't made from one game, and I'm still waiting to see him actually make the team better when he's on the floor.

Even as a scorer, Collin hasn't been truly tested yet. Once Kyrie started winning games for the Cavs, opponents started game planning him. That was in his rookie year. Collin is only getting an inkling of what it's like when a defense focuses on stopping him at the end of our occasional close games.

So, no, I'm not worried about anyone losing their job at this point. Darius has helped us pull out a number of our wins with timely shots, passes, and scores. We need more players clicking more often, not fewer.

Garland has had a total of maybe 10 good quarters this entire season as the starting point guard and as the initiator of the offense he's obviously got a high basketball IQ but he does not have the physical ability to be an NBA point guard at this point so the only question is does he have the same work ethic as Collin Sexton because he's already proven he doesn't have the same durability.
I would really love to know what exactly was going through this front office brain when they drafted Darius Garland and what did they see him doing for this org long-term. I'd be willing to bet that they expected Sexton was not going to be this good this fast or they would not have moved him off point and replaced him with someone who they thought would be but hasn't been.
The past two game Sexton is proving that he is already improved significantly because he is running the tea and he's doing it very well for somebody who wasn't expected to ever be good at it and obviously continues to get slept on even by his own fan base congratulations


Darius while clearly lacking in physically strength/girth/whatever and getting worn down by the season/minutes, has been constantly improving on defense. His shooting which was starting to come around has regressed - and that's likely fatigue related. Because of that he's played cautiously, but yet because he tries on defense, moves the ball, and is a threat to bury an open J ... he's had the most positive court time of ANY of our starters or rooks.

But 10 good quarters you say? What exactly do you consider a good quarter?

In my book, a good quarter is one where your group scores more than the other team. Team game!

And that in a nutshell is why the Cavs weren't ready to commit to Collin as their PG of the future and drafted Darius. Collin was already showing great promise as a scorer last year, but there's a lot more to running a team and playing winning basketball than that.

You look at these past 2 games and see 73 points and 9 assists, while I see -12 and a pair of losses.

If Collin was as good as you think and Garland as bad as you think, the on/off numbers would not look like this.

I truly hope you are not that delusional man. he sucks plain and simple and that isnt saying he doesn;t have the toolbox to put it together after a summer in the weight room but he aint there and is not a positive other than making 1 good pass for every 3 bad ones and trying to stay out of the way but just continuing to be the half flat tire screaming pit stop pit stop
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#131 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 7:13 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Garland has had a total of maybe 10 good quarters this entire season as the starting point guard and as the initiator of the offense he's obviously got a high basketball IQ but he does not have the physical ability to be an NBA point guard at this point so the only question is does he have the same work ethic as Collin Sexton because he's already proven he doesn't have the same durability.
I would really love to know what exactly was going through this front office brain when they drafted Darius Garland and what did they see him doing for this org long-term. I'd be willing to bet that they expected Sexton was not going to be this good this fast or they would not have moved him off point and replaced him with someone who they thought would be but hasn't been.
The past two game Sexton is proving that he is already improved significantly because he is running the tea and he's doing it very well for somebody who wasn't expected to ever be good at it and obviously continues to get slept on even by his own fan base congratulations


Darius while clearly lacking in physically strength/girth/whatever and getting worn down by the season/minutes, has been constantly improving on defense. His shooting which was starting to come around has regressed - and that's likely fatigue related. Because of that he's played cautiously, but yet because he tries on defense, moves the ball, and is a threat to bury an open J ... he's had the most positive court time of ANY of our starters or rooks.

But 10 good quarters you say? What exactly do you consider a good quarter?

In my book, a good quarter is one where your group scores more than the other team. Team game!

And that in a nutshell is why the Cavs weren't ready to commit to Collin as their PG of the future and drafted Darius. Collin was already showing great promise as a scorer last year, but there's a lot more to running a team and playing winning basketball than that.

You look at these past 2 games and see 73 points and 9 assists, while I see -12 and a pair of losses.

If Collin was as good as you think and Garland as bad as you think, the on/off numbers would not look like this.

I truly hope you are not that delusional man. he sucks plain and simple and that isnt saying he doesn;t have the toolbox to put it together after a summer in the weight room but he aint there and is not a positive other than making 1 good pass for every 3 bad ones and trying to stay out of the way but just continuing to be the half flat tire screaming pit stop pit stop


I didn't say Garland was a positive, I said he was the MOST positive ... or least negative if your prefer. :)

This is a statistical fact and has nothing to do with "delusions".
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#132 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 7:16 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Darius while clearly lacking in physically strength/girth/whatever and getting worn down by the season/minutes, has been constantly improving on defense. His shooting which was starting to come around has regressed - and that's likely fatigue related. Because of that he's played cautiously, but yet because he tries on defense, moves the ball, and is a threat to bury an open J ... he's had the most positive court time of ANY of our starters or rooks.

But 10 good quarters you say? What exactly do you consider a good quarter?

In my book, a good quarter is one where your group scores more than the other team. Team game!

And that in a nutshell is why the Cavs weren't ready to commit to Collin as their PG of the future and drafted Darius. Collin was already showing great promise as a scorer last year, but there's a lot more to running a team and playing winning basketball than that.

You look at these past 2 games and see 73 points and 9 assists, while I see -12 and a pair of losses.

If Collin was as good as you think and Garland as bad as you think, the on/off numbers would not look like this.

I truly hope you are not that delusional man. he sucks plain and simple and that isnt saying he doesn;t have the toolbox to put it together after a summer in the weight room but he aint there and is not a positive other than making 1 good pass for every 3 bad ones and trying to stay out of the way but just continuing to be the half flat tire screaming pit stop pit stop


I didn't say Garland was a positive, I said he was the MOST positive ... or least negative if your prefer. :)

This is a statistical fact and has nothing to do with "delusions".

I have no idea what you are thinking.
delusional or not, the reality is Sexton is showing out and isn't in street clothes while your favorite rookie is a non factor.
Hell maybe Garland puts it all together while he is hurt and comes out and drops 30 and 10 to close the season than you can tell me "I told you so" but we both know the odds of that happening are only real if garland pulls the skin off his face and reveals uncle drew
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#133 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 9:00 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I truly hope you are not that delusional man. he sucks plain and simple and that isnt saying he doesn;t have the toolbox to put it together after a summer in the weight room but he aint there and is not a positive other than making 1 good pass for every 3 bad ones and trying to stay out of the way but just continuing to be the half flat tire screaming pit stop pit stop


I didn't say Garland was a positive, I said he was the MOST positive ... or least negative if your prefer. :)

This is a statistical fact and has nothing to do with "delusions".

I have no idea what you are thinking.
delusional or not, the reality is Sexton is showing out and isn't in street clothes while your favorite rookie is a non factor.
Hell maybe Garland puts it all together while he is hurt and comes out and drops 30 and 10 to close the season than you can tell me "I told you so" but we both know the odds of that happening are only real if garland pulls the skin off his face and reveals uncle drew


I'm not "thinking" anything. I'm stating a statistical fact. If you want to understand it, or know where it comes from because you don't know or can't find it you can just ask. Or you can just get back to doing what you do.

I really don't expect Garland to start dropping 30 & 10 this season. He's never played this many games, and wasn't in shape to start with. Which doesn't mean he will or he won't next season. I don't have a crystal ball anymore than you do. I do think he's still improving, though, or I would had suggested they just shut him down. I think it's actually a good thing that he's being brought along being asked to initiate the offense and share the ball, rather than try to be the offense. Dribble handoffs in to a 3pt shot or drive are both staples of modern offenses and Darius is getting production from those types of plays.

And you know what?

As I typed that out, I thought I don't have to rely on the "eye test". The NBA tracks that data. Just because I think Darius has run that play well, doesn't mean he actually has ... I can go to the data.

So, for example, here's the data on the Cavaliers players running dribble handoffs:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hand-off/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*Cle&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

Garland's right at the top (barely behind Clarkson) at 0.98 PPP. Collin runs that play even more often, but he's at 0.76 PPP.

The problem is that when it comes to winning basketball, that's not very good efficiency for either player.

If we were to instead look at plays in isolation, we'd see the two players flip. Collin is a lot better than Darius, but his PPP is still just 0.98.

Collin has been efficient in transition and spot up shooting, but playing PG doesn't do anything for him there. We need defense and rebounding to drive our transition game, and playmaking from elsewhere to create open looks for Collin, and surprisingly either of the two Kevin's.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#134 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 9:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I didn't say Garland was a positive, I said he was the MOST positive ... or least negative if your prefer. :)

This is a statistical fact and has nothing to do with "delusions".

I have no idea what you are thinking.
delusional or not, the reality is Sexton is showing out and isn't in street clothes while your favorite rookie is a non factor.
Hell maybe Garland puts it all together while he is hurt and comes out and drops 30 and 10 to close the season than you can tell me "I told you so" but we both know the odds of that happening are only real if garland pulls the skin off his face and reveals uncle drew


I'm not "thinking" anything. I'm stating a statistical fact. If you want to understand it, or know where it comes from because you don't know or can't find it you can just ask. Or you can just get back to doing what you do.

I really don't expect Garland to start dropping 30 & 10 this season. He's never played this many games, and wasn't in shape to start with. Which doesn't mean he will or he won't next season. I don't have a crystal ball anymore than you do. I do think he's still improving, though, or I would had suggested they just shut him down. I think it's actually a good thing that he's being brought along being asked to initiate the offense and share the ball, rather than try to be the offense. Dribble handoffs in to a 3pt shot or drive are both staples of modern offenses and Darius is getting production from those types of plays.

And you know what?

As I typed that out, I thought I don't have to rely on the "eye test". The NBA tracks that data. Just because I think Darius has run that play well, doesn't mean he actually has ... I can go to the data.

So, for example, here's the data on the Cavaliers players running dribble handoffs:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hand-off/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*Cle&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

Garland's right at the top (barely behind Clarkson) at 0.98 PPP. Collin runs that play even more often, but he's at 0.76 PPP.

The problem is that when it comes to winning basketball, that's not very good efficiency for either player.

If we were to instead look at plays in isolation, we'd see the two players flip. Collin is a lot better than Darius, but his PPP is still just 0.98.

Collin has been efficient in transition and spot up shooting, but playing PG doesn't do anything for him there. We need defense and rebounding to drive our transition game, and playmaking from elsewhere to create open looks for Collin, and surprisingly either of the two Kevin's.

anyone spewing stats about Sexton not being this or that when he has only been the fn pg for 2 games this season has their respective head in the sand.
your argument is moot to me. Garland has been the tank commander not Collin.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#135 » by Revenged25 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 9:37 pm

It's funny, I started goign through all of the other PPP situations listed on that site, and Hand-off is literally the only one where Garland beats Sexton. In every other category they're in, Sexton is ahead of Garland, most of them it's not even close...
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#136 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 11:27 pm

Revenged25 wrote:It's funny, I started goign through all of the other PPP situations listed on that site, and Hand-off is literally the only one where Garland beats Sexton. In every other category they're in, Sexton is ahead of Garland, most of them it's not even close...


Cool, did you check which ones Collin does at the level of the Cavs offensive rating or better?

Not that an offensive rating of 107.3 is good or anything, we are 24th in the league ... but anything Collin does with a PPP > 1.073 would be something that would improve the team as opposed to hurt the team.

I found transition and spotup, but we don't need Collin playing PG to benefit from those.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#137 » by JonFromVA » Fri Mar 6, 2020 11:31 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I have no idea what you are thinking.
delusional or not, the reality is Sexton is showing out and isn't in street clothes while your favorite rookie is a non factor.
Hell maybe Garland puts it all together while he is hurt and comes out and drops 30 and 10 to close the season than you can tell me "I told you so" but we both know the odds of that happening are only real if garland pulls the skin off his face and reveals uncle drew


I'm not "thinking" anything. I'm stating a statistical fact. If you want to understand it, or know where it comes from because you don't know or can't find it you can just ask. Or you can just get back to doing what you do.

I really don't expect Garland to start dropping 30 & 10 this season. He's never played this many games, and wasn't in shape to start with. Which doesn't mean he will or he won't next season. I don't have a crystal ball anymore than you do. I do think he's still improving, though, or I would had suggested they just shut him down. I think it's actually a good thing that he's being brought along being asked to initiate the offense and share the ball, rather than try to be the offense. Dribble handoffs in to a 3pt shot or drive are both staples of modern offenses and Darius is getting production from those types of plays.

And you know what?

As I typed that out, I thought I don't have to rely on the "eye test". The NBA tracks that data. Just because I think Darius has run that play well, doesn't mean he actually has ... I can go to the data.

So, for example, here's the data on the Cavaliers players running dribble handoffs:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hand-off/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*Cle&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

Garland's right at the top (barely behind Clarkson) at 0.98 PPP. Collin runs that play even more often, but he's at 0.76 PPP.

The problem is that when it comes to winning basketball, that's not very good efficiency for either player.

If we were to instead look at plays in isolation, we'd see the two players flip. Collin is a lot better than Darius, but his PPP is still just 0.98.

Collin has been efficient in transition and spot up shooting, but playing PG doesn't do anything for him there. We need defense and rebounding to drive our transition game, and playmaking from elsewhere to create open looks for Collin, and surprisingly either of the two Kevin's.

anyone spewing stats about Sexton not being this or that when he has only been the fn pg for 2 games this season has their respective head in the sand.
your argument is moot to me. Garland has been the tank commander not Collin.


Then do us both a favor and ignore my posts? Because you're just wasting both our time asking me questions when you don't care what the answer is, the rationality, the facts, the logic or ... basically anything.

If you just want to deal with opinion, you don't really need to know much more than that I disagree or agree with a point you've made, right?
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#138 » by Stillwater » Fri Mar 6, 2020 11:37 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm not "thinking" anything. I'm stating a statistical fact. If you want to understand it, or know where it comes from because you don't know or can't find it you can just ask. Or you can just get back to doing what you do.

I really don't expect Garland to start dropping 30 & 10 this season. He's never played this many games, and wasn't in shape to start with. Which doesn't mean he will or he won't next season. I don't have a crystal ball anymore than you do. I do think he's still improving, though, or I would had suggested they just shut him down. I think it's actually a good thing that he's being brought along being asked to initiate the offense and share the ball, rather than try to be the offense. Dribble handoffs in to a 3pt shot or drive are both staples of modern offenses and Darius is getting production from those types of plays.

And you know what?

As I typed that out, I thought I don't have to rely on the "eye test". The NBA tracks that data. Just because I think Darius has run that play well, doesn't mean he actually has ... I can go to the data.

So, for example, here's the data on the Cavaliers players running dribble handoffs:

https://stats.nba.com/players/hand-off/?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*Cle&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

Garland's right at the top (barely behind Clarkson) at 0.98 PPP. Collin runs that play even more often, but he's at 0.76 PPP.

The problem is that when it comes to winning basketball, that's not very good efficiency for either player.

If we were to instead look at plays in isolation, we'd see the two players flip. Collin is a lot better than Darius, but his PPP is still just 0.98.

Collin has been efficient in transition and spot up shooting, but playing PG doesn't do anything for him there. We need defense and rebounding to drive our transition game, and playmaking from elsewhere to create open looks for Collin, and surprisingly either of the two Kevin's.

anyone spewing stats about Sexton not being this or that when he has only been the fn pg for 2 games this season has their respective head in the sand.
your argument is moot to me. Garland has been the tank commander not Collin.


Then do us both a favor and ignore my posts? Because you're just wasting both our time asking me questions when you don't care what the answer is, the rationality, the facts, the logic or ... basically anything.

If you just want to deal with opinion, you don't really need to know much more than that I disagree or agree with a point you've made, right?


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where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#139 » by Revenged25 » Fri Mar 6, 2020 11:50 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:It's funny, I started goign through all of the other PPP situations listed on that site, and Hand-off is literally the only one where Garland beats Sexton. In every other category they're in, Sexton is ahead of Garland, most of them it's not even close...


Cool, did you check which ones Collin does at the level of the Cavs offensive rating or better?

Not that an offensive rating of 107.3 is good or anything, we are 24th in the league ... but anything Collin does with a PPP > 1.073 would be something that would improve the team as opposed to hurt the team.

I found transition and spotup, but we don't need Collin playing PG to benefit from those.


You realize that means Garland is even worse and hurts the team more... Also literally EVERY offensive stat that both of them are in, Sexton is better except for Handoff. That's all but Post Up and Pick and Roll Man
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#140 » by JonFromVA » Sat Mar 7, 2020 1:29 am

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:It's funny, I started goign through all of the other PPP situations listed on that site, and Hand-off is literally the only one where Garland beats Sexton. In every other category they're in, Sexton is ahead of Garland, most of them it's not even close...


Cool, did you check which ones Collin does at the level of the Cavs offensive rating or better?

Not that an offensive rating of 107.3 is good or anything, we are 24th in the league ... but anything Collin does with a PPP > 1.073 would be something that would improve the team as opposed to hurt the team.

I found transition and spotup, but we don't need Collin playing PG to benefit from those.


You realize that means Garland is even worse and hurts the team more... Also literally EVERY offensive stat that both of them are in, Sexton is better except for Handoff. That's all but Post Up and Pick and Roll Man


"Harm" in this case would be a factor of PPP and number of possessions. A player can literally do less damage by trying to do less. Some fans (on other boards) are upset that Garland hasn't been more assertive, but more bad offense is not a good thing.

So, Garland initiating plays that other players finish could be a good use of him on the floor. Which isn't to say that we wouldn't be even better with say Delly filling that role (if he could find his shot) but we are bound by the constraint that the kids are going to get their minutes.

Bottom line is that Collin's negative floor time is an ongoing concern. When that happens even when he's having a high-scoring solid-efficiency game, there's just something amiss..

And if Collin is the guy who makes his team better, Darius shouldn't be constantly putting up a better +/- number than him.

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