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Eastern Conference Summer League Notes

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Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#1 » by Smitty731 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Hey All!

As I do annually, I empty out my notebook from Summer League. This year was REALLY long, so we broke it up by conference. Here is the East!

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/255004/2019-Eastern-Conference-Summer-League-Notes

Enjoy!

Smitty
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#2 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:19 pm

Thanks Smitty.

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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#3 » by Richfield » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:47 pm

I love this and am surprised Cavs have realized this (or are going with his line till better trade offers roll in):

On keeping veterans like Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson: “It’s easy to say we should be dumping all of our vets. We get it. But the reality is that the best thing for young players it to be in competitive situations. Guys like Kevin and Tristan and Jordan (Clarkson) will help us stay competitive. If the right opportunity comes up to improve our team moving forward, we’ll discuss it. Until then, we’re happy to move forward with what we have.”
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#4 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:26 pm

Richfield wrote:I love this and am surprised Cavs have realized this (or are going with his line till better trade offers roll in):

On keeping veterans like Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson: “It’s easy to say we should be dumping all of our vets. We get it. But the reality is that the best thing for young players it to be in competitive situations. Guys like Kevin and Tristan and Jordan (Clarkson) will help us stay competitive. If the right opportunity comes up to improve our team moving forward, we’ll discuss it. Until then, we’re happy to move forward with what we have.”
I don't see Love and TT as similar in terms of future plans. I could live with Love finishing his career in Cleveland if no good trade offers materialize. It's too diificult to find good PFs in the NBA. Philly just signed and older Horford to a 4 year deal and Denver picked up Millsaps option rather than use $30M in cap space. There's a reason teams overpay for that position.

Conversely, I'd want a below-market deal to bring back TT. You can 80-90% of what TT gives you at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.

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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#5 » by Richfield » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Richfield wrote:I love this and am surprised Cavs have realized this (or are going with his line till better trade offers roll in):

On keeping veterans like Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson: “It’s easy to say we should be dumping all of our vets. We get it. But the reality is that the best thing for young players it to be in competitive situations. Guys like Kevin and Tristan and Jordan (Clarkson) will help us stay competitive. If the right opportunity comes up to improve our team moving forward, we’ll discuss it. Until then, we’re happy to move forward with what we have.”
I don't see Love and TT as similar in terms of future plans. I could live with Love finishing his career in Cleveland if no good trade offers materialize. It's too diificult to find good PFs in the NBA. Philly just signed and older Horford to a 4 year deal and Denver picked up Millsaps option rather than use $30M in cap space. There's a reason teams overpay for that position.

Conversely, I'd want a below-market deal to bring back TT. You can 80-90% of what TT gives you at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.

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I kind of agree if you had to choose between the two Love is the better fit for helping our youngs get better. Tristan does what he does and can help any team get better. But doesn't necessarily make other individual players better. Still nice to have around though if they can both stay.

I know saving money seems to be the dominating conversation around here, but considering Cavs are under the cap, and aren't hurting financially either way, I don't see any urgency into trading TT, even if his contract isn't to some peoples' liking. Everybody wants to beat the average production per dollar ratio and have "positive value contracts", but if that were always the goal the Cavs wouldn't have gotten a ring. Just saying. Basketball matters too. At least a little bit. That's why I applaud the Cavs approach here. Also it's a convenient line to go with if they're waiting for better offers for guys.

Was surprised to see Clarkson's name mentioned in those 3 names mentioned, but it makes sense. He does produce. Doesn't feel like part of the future, but maybe it's about establishing his worth before he's traded, if he's traded. Also good to have vets around who have gotten minutes in the league to teach the youngs, they'll listen to guys who have done it / doing it. I really love the idea of going into the season not in full tank mode. Acknowledging that today's game matters. Sometimes fans need a win today. Can't be sold on tomorrow all the time.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:21 pm

Richfield wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Richfield wrote:I love this and am surprised Cavs have realized this (or are going with his line till better trade offers roll in):

I don't see Love and TT as similar in terms of future plans. I could live with Love finishing his career in Cleveland if no good trade offers materialize. It's too diificult to find good PFs in the NBA. Philly just signed and older Horford to a 4 year deal and Denver picked up Millsaps option rather than use $30M in cap space. There's a reason teams overpay for that position.

Conversely, I'd want a below-market deal to bring back TT. You can 80-90% of what TT gives you at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.

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I kind of agree if you had to choose between the two Love is the better fit for helping our youngs get better. Tristan does what he does and can help any team get better. But doesn't necessarily make other individual players better. Still nice to have around though if they can both stay.

I know saving money seems to be the dominating conversation around here, but considering Cavs are under the cap, and aren't hurting financially either way, I don't see any urgency into trading TT, even if his contract isn't to some peoples' liking. Everybody wants to beat the average production per dollar ratio and have "positive value contracts", but if that were always the goal the Cavs wouldn't have gotten a ring. Just saying. Basketball matters too. At least a little bit. That's why I applaud the Cavs approach here. Also it's a convenient line to go with if they're waiting for better offers for guys.

Was surprised to see Clarkson's name mentioned in those 3 names mentioned, but it makes sense. He does produce. Doesn't feel like part of the future, but maybe it's about establishing his worth before he's traded, if he's traded. Also good to have vets around who have gotten minutes in the league to teach the youngs, they'll listen to guys who have done it / doing it. I really love the idea of going into the season not in full tank mode. Acknowledging that today's game matters. Sometimes fans need a win today. Can't be sold on tomorrow all the time.
The dilemma the Cavs have is that they can't showcase both TT and Henson. Henson averaged 1.5 blocks per game in 20 mpg. The Cavs haven't had a legit shot blocker in an eternity. He's the guy I'd like to take a look at.

TT also gets sonned by true 7-foot post players. I'm not sure he should get minutes over Zizic with those matchups. Nance is flat out better than TT so that should also be a place where TT's minutes get cut.

This should be the last year the Cavs worry about getting a top 10 pick. If you want to see what a guy like Bolden has in real NBA minutes, this should be the year.

We're integrating a new coach and a new system and you have to decide what your priorities are. I like TT's work ethic and toughness. I like young guys being around it. But, it would've been better if the Cavs moved TT this summer IMO. You don't increase guys trade value by cutting their minutes and every minute he plays comes with a trade off.

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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#7 » by RCM88x » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:51 pm

I don't think Henson really holds much value at all, TT is the guy they should be showcasing 100% over Henson. Granted I'd rather them ignore Henson entirely and role with Zizic and TT at C with Love at PF. Not that Zizic is great defensively but he at least can be an offensive threat.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#8 » by jbk1234 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:15 pm

RCM88x wrote:I don't think Henson really holds much value at all, TT is the guy they should be showcasing 100% over Henson. Granted I'd rather them ignore Henson entirely and role with Zizic and TT at C with Love at PF. Not that Zizic is great defensively but he at least can be an offensive threat.


I feel like everyone in the league knows what TT does well and what his flaws are. He was one of the most visible players in the NBA for four years. I don't know how much value showcasing him is going to return. You're certainly not going to make him a focal point of the offense. The team played better with Nance starting.

A Hornets fan posted an MKG for TT trade straight up. They own the Cavs second this year and I'd try to get that back. Either way it would have some appeal to me, especially after the Cavs let Nwaba go.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#9 » by Richfield » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm

Out of site out of mind.

They know what TT does but I don't think it hurts to remind them against their own teams what he does and that he can still do it. Let him grab some offensive rebounds in a close game in the fourth quarter against some team who knows we have him but need some visual reminders.

I don't see it as TT or Henson to get minutes, I think they can both provide some serviceable minutes and keep teams aware of their value. It might no last very long if teams come calling but I think to maintain a player's trade value it helps if they play. Of course if they're traded before the season that's another scenario altogether.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:44 am

it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#11 » by Revenged25 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:41 pm

Stillwater wrote:it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first


I think although Thompson can't shoot, his elite offensive rebounding which would allow our shooters to get extra shots would make up for it. I figure in an offense like Beilein's you need to do one of two things, shoot the 3 well, or make sure those that do shoot it well gets more opportunities to do so. Getting the offensive rebounds and kicking it back out does the 2nd. Sure Beilein would probably prefer it if they could do both, but there are few centers that can shoot the 3 well anyways, and even fewer that can shoot it well while also being able to rebound well. There are also very few centers that grab offensive rebounds as well as Thompson when he's healthy and playing at the level we've seen in the past, regardless of their ability to shoot the 3.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#12 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:06 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first


I think although Thompson can't shoot, his elite offensive rebounding which would allow our shooters to get extra shots would make up for it. I figure in an offense like Beilein's you need to do one of two things, shoot the 3 well, or make sure those that do shoot it well gets more opportunities to do so. Getting the offensive rebounds and kicking it back out does the 2nd. Sure Beilein would probably prefer it if they could do both, but there are few centers that can shoot the 3 well anyways, and even fewer that can shoot it well while also being able to rebound well. There are also very few centers that grab offensive rebounds as well as Thompson when he's healthy and playing at the level we've seen in the past, regardless of their ability to shoot the 3.

I get what you are saying, but I am not sold he will play him as much as you think. he is capable of course of defending the perimeter though and that alone would earn him minutes in my line up with the lack of it across the roster... the rebounding and energy when he brings it are special, but lets be honest we have not seen that from him in awhile. He has no motivation to remain on this roster.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#13 » by Revenged25 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:37 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first


I think although Thompson can't shoot, his elite offensive rebounding which would allow our shooters to get extra shots would make up for it. I figure in an offense like Beilein's you need to do one of two things, shoot the 3 well, or make sure those that do shoot it well gets more opportunities to do so. Getting the offensive rebounds and kicking it back out does the 2nd. Sure Beilein would probably prefer it if they could do both, but there are few centers that can shoot the 3 well anyways, and even fewer that can shoot it well while also being able to rebound well. There are also very few centers that grab offensive rebounds as well as Thompson when he's healthy and playing at the level we've seen in the past, regardless of their ability to shoot the 3.

I get what you are saying, but I am not sold he will play him as much as you think. he is capable of course of defending the perimeter though and that alone would earn him minutes in my line up with the lack of it across the roster... the rebounding and energy when he brings it are special, but lets be honest we have not seen that from him in awhile. He has no motivation to remain on this roster.

Which is fair and I don't think he's going to get a massive amount of minutes, but I think he's going to get more than Henson until the deadline. I do think that if the FO tells him straight up that if he doesn't want to be here, they'll look for a trade partner for him, but they aren't going to make a bad trade to move him, so he needs to go out there and play well and they'll be sure to trade him once a good offer comes in. I would also point out that if he doesn't play better his next contract will be much worse considering the current market for bigs that can't shoot.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#14 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:44 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think although Thompson can't shoot, his elite offensive rebounding which would allow our shooters to get extra shots would make up for it. I figure in an offense like Beilein's you need to do one of two things, shoot the 3 well, or make sure those that do shoot it well gets more opportunities to do so. Getting the offensive rebounds and kicking it back out does the 2nd. Sure Beilein would probably prefer it if they could do both, but there are few centers that can shoot the 3 well anyways, and even fewer that can shoot it well while also being able to rebound well. There are also very few centers that grab offensive rebounds as well as Thompson when he's healthy and playing at the level we've seen in the past, regardless of their ability to shoot the 3.

I get what you are saying, but I am not sold he will play him as much as you think. he is capable of course of defending the perimeter though and that alone would earn him minutes in my line up with the lack of it across the roster... the rebounding and energy when he brings it are special, but lets be honest we have not seen that from him in awhile. He has no motivation to remain on this roster.

Which is fair and I don't think he's going to get a massive amount of minutes, but I think he's going to get more than Henson until the deadline. I do think that if the FO tells him straight up that if he doesn't want to be here, they'll look for a trade partner for him, but they aren't going to make a bad trade to move him, so he needs to go out there and play well and they'll be sure to trade him once a good offer comes in. I would also point out that if he doesn't play better his next contract will be much worse considering the current market for bigs that can't shoot.

I think he will be hoping to get moved to a contender or at least a playoff team at the DL so he can make an impact in the playoffs when people are watching in regards to his contract. I doubt much if anyone will be watching the Cavs beyond a couple of games where the matchups are also young teams
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#15 » by Revenged25 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:08 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I get what you are saying, but I am not sold he will play him as much as you think. he is capable of course of defending the perimeter though and that alone would earn him minutes in my line up with the lack of it across the roster... the rebounding and energy when he brings it are special, but lets be honest we have not seen that from him in awhile. He has no motivation to remain on this roster.

Which is fair and I don't think he's going to get a massive amount of minutes, but I think he's going to get more than Henson until the deadline. I do think that if the FO tells him straight up that if he doesn't want to be here, they'll look for a trade partner for him, but they aren't going to make a bad trade to move him, so he needs to go out there and play well and they'll be sure to trade him once a good offer comes in. I would also point out that if he doesn't play better his next contract will be much worse considering the current market for bigs that can't shoot.

I think he will be hoping to get moved to a contender or at least a playoff team at the DL so he can make an impact in the playoffs when people are watching in regards to his contract. I doubt much if anyone will be watching the Cavs beyond a couple of games where the matchups are also young teams


NBA GMs and the Pro Scouting Teams will be to try and locate possible upcoming FA targets as well as deadline targets.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:15 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:Which is fair and I don't think he's going to get a massive amount of minutes, but I think he's going to get more than Henson until the deadline. I do think that if the FO tells him straight up that if he doesn't want to be here, they'll look for a trade partner for him, but they aren't going to make a bad trade to move him, so he needs to go out there and play well and they'll be sure to trade him once a good offer comes in. I would also point out that if he doesn't play better his next contract will be much worse considering the current market for bigs that can't shoot.

I think he will be hoping to get moved to a contender or at least a playoff team at the DL so he can make an impact in the playoffs when people are watching in regards to his contract. I doubt much if anyone will be watching the Cavs beyond a couple of games where the matchups are also young teams


NBA GMs and the Pro Scouting Teams will be to try and locate possible upcoming FA targets as well as deadline targets.

You gonna offer the same value for a player who can't prove himself in a playoff setting? I'm not
I mean he didn't do anything to earn a decent contract last season did he? I don't think he gets much in return for us
tbh besides another expiring and maybe a late 1st or early 2nd no matter what he does on the court
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#17 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:04 pm

Stillwater wrote:it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first


This is a contract year for TT. He's going to want to play. I also think that the Cavs will have to wait until the deadline to get a late first for him. If we could get our second back early, and defensive wing, and I'd do it.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#18 » by JonFromVA » Thu Aug 1, 2019 6:45 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:it will be interesting how Beilein is approaching it or if he even has a say given hes a rookie HC and the business of the NBA pushes different player usage than optimal. but i think think TT's lack of shooting would keep him out of the rotation if it were up to Beilein and a fake knee or shoulder injury will send him home before being dumped for a lesser player expiring and a late first


This is a contract year for TT. He's going to want to play. I also think that the Cavs will have to wait until the deadline to get a late first for him. If we could get our second back early, and defensive wing, and I'd do it.


Yeah, dealing with that stuff will be a test for Altman and Beilein. Hopefully they won't feel the need to head for the broom close and cry.
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#19 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 1, 2019 7:10 pm

I think it will be unlikely we can get a defensive wing that is young enough to fit into this rebuild for TT unless they can pry OG from Toronto
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Re: Eastern Conference Summer League Notes 

Post#20 » by jbk1234 » Thu Aug 1, 2019 9:34 pm

Stillwater wrote:I think it will be unlikely we can get a defensive wing that is young enough to fit into this rebuild for TT unless they can pry OG from Toronto


I don't think the defensive wing would have to be a long-term solution. I just want some balance in the rotations. I'm really worried our defense will be so bad it will be demoralizing.
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