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looking ahead

Moderator: jbk1234

what back court usage do you expect to have the most success as the season goes on and beyond

PG (lead ball handler) Sexton / SG (off ball primarily) Garland
1
25%
PG lbh Sexton SG obp KPJ
1
25%
PG lbh Sexton SG obp other
0
No votes
PG lbh Garland SG obp Sexton
2
50%
PG lbh Garland SG obp KPJ
0
No votes
PG lbh Garland SG obp other
0
No votes
PG lbh other SG obp Sexton
0
No votes
PG lbh other SG obp Garland
0
No votes
PG lbh other SG obp other
0
No votes
none of the above
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 4

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looking ahead 

Post#1 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 12:50 am

what do you think in terms of offensive action is the most likely to be successful ?
I am not talking about defensive assignments for positions , but who has the most on ball vs off ball role.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#2 » by jbk1234 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 1:49 am

I think Sexton is going to have to dramatically improve his ability to run an offense to be the PG/lbh. Over the long haul, his defense needs to improve to start at the 2. I suspect he's more likely to improve his defense than become a true PG.

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Re: looking ahead 

Post#3 » by Revenged25 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 1:15 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I think Sexton is going to have to dramatically improve his ability to run an offense to be the PG/lbh. Over the long haul, his defense needs to improve to start at the 2. I suspect he's more likely to improve his defense than become a true PG.

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I was thinking Sexton as the SG as well. He was amazing in catch and shoot 3's last season when in that role and although he's not the primary he'll still probably be the lead on fast breaks as well as still being able to catch and drive when teams try to close out quickly on him if he keeps his shooting even close to what it was from 3 last year.

For overall production offense & Defense, I would say Sexton/KPJ due to Sexton guarding the PG and KPJ being a little bigger on the SG but also able to score himself.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#4 » by jbk1234 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:09 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I think Sexton is going to have to dramatically improve his ability to run an offense to be the PG/lbh. Over the long haul, his defense needs to improve to start at the 2. I suspect he's more likely to improve his defense than become a true PG.

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I was thinking Sexton as the SG as well. He was amazing in catch and shoot 3's last season when in that role and although he's not the primary he'll still probably be the lead on fast breaks as well as still being able to catch and drive when teams try to close out quickly on him if he keeps his shooting even close to what it was from 3 last year.

For overall production offense & Defense, I would say Sexton/KPJ due to Sexton guarding the PG and KPJ being a little bigger on the SG but also able to score himself.


If the long-term plan isn't to have Garland as a starter, then I don't know why we drafted him.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#5 » by Revenged25 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:18 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I think Sexton is going to have to dramatically improve his ability to run an offense to be the PG/lbh. Over the long haul, his defense needs to improve to start at the 2. I suspect he's more likely to improve his defense than become a true PG.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


I was thinking Sexton as the SG as well. He was amazing in catch and shoot 3's last season when in that role and although he's not the primary he'll still probably be the lead on fast breaks as well as still being able to catch and drive when teams try to close out quickly on him if he keeps his shooting even close to what it was from 3 last year.

For overall production offense & Defense, I would say Sexton/KPJ due to Sexton guarding the PG and KPJ being a little bigger on the SG but also able to score himself.


If the long-term plan isn't to have Garland as a starter, then I don't know why we drafted him.


Well the question was for this season. I think this season Sexton/KPJ would be the better overall duo because as you said Sexton needs to improve his defense to guard 2's. I think long term Garland and Sexton could work just fine, but this year, where our defense is going to be suspect at best as it is, that a Sexton/KPJ would be a stronger defensive pairing while still able to score oodles.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#6 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:29 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I was thinking Sexton as the SG as well. He was amazing in catch and shoot 3's last season when in that role and although he's not the primary he'll still probably be the lead on fast breaks as well as still being able to catch and drive when teams try to close out quickly on him if he keeps his shooting even close to what it was from 3 last year.

For overall production offense & Defense, I would say Sexton/KPJ due to Sexton guarding the PG and KPJ being a little bigger on the SG but also able to score himself.


If the long-term plan isn't to have Garland as a starter, then I don't know why we drafted him.


Well the question was for this season. I think this season Sexton/KPJ would be the better overall duo because as you said Sexton needs to improve his defense to guard 2's. I think long term Garland and Sexton could work just fine, but this year, where our defense is going to be suspect at best as it is, that a Sexton/KPJ would be a stronger defensive pairing while still able to score oodles.

I'm taking a wait and see approach really regarding Garland. He could prove to be a much better floor general than Sexton right out of the gate, but he very well could be no better in that area esp if Sexton has put the work in this summer as most of Garland's high level skillset appears to be what I would consider a scoring specialist not a lead guard. KPJ is a bit of a project as far as getting starter minutes this season I am not seeing it with vets like JC in the rotation anyway maybe later in the season and beyond/ His length should help him become a decent on ball defender, but he needs to learn better team defense much in the same way Sexton and Garland do. KPJ right now is a perfect replacement to JC if he is moved at the dl.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#7 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:36 pm

just an fyi If they wanted to win now if it were not for the development requirements along with the desire to retain picks and actually build a contender instead of being impatient and pushing for mediocrity; I would definitely consider using Cedi as the lead ball handler in the point forward role with Sexton,Garland,KPJ and Windler playing off of him draining 3's and attacking the basket along with Love or Nance on elbow and Henson or TT in the middle.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#8 » by Revenged25 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:56 pm

Stillwater wrote:just an fyi If they wanted to win now if it were not for the development requirements along with the desire to retain picks and actually build a contender instead of being impatient and pushing for mediocrity; I would definitely consider using Cedi as the lead ball handler in the point forward role with Sexton,Garland,KPJ and Windler playing off of him draining 3's and attacking the basket along with Love or Nance on elbow and Henson or TT in the middle.


I don't see why they can't do both, in regards to development and using Cedi as a lead ball handler. In an ideal situation we would be able to run with any of Cedi, Garland, or Sexton being able to start up the offense based on plays we would like to run. A lot of movements for those off the ball would likely be similar between all three, but the threat they oppose to defenses based on who is the ball handler changes. It's been proven that having only one person of being the PBH is a bad thing in the NBA, heck even two can be still get bogged down, but having 3 people that can be PBH and have plays that can be unique to them while also having overlap in them would be another wrinkle that could help them in their growth.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#9 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 6:43 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:just an fyi If they wanted to win now if it were not for the development requirements along with the desire to retain picks and actually build a contender instead of being impatient and pushing for mediocrity; I would definitely consider using Cedi as the lead ball handler in the point forward role with Sexton,Garland,KPJ and Windler playing off of him draining 3's and attacking the basket along with Love or Nance on elbow and Henson or TT in the middle.


I don't see why they can't do both, in regards to development and using Cedi as a lead ball handler. In an ideal situation we would be able to run with any of Cedi, Garland, or Sexton being able to start up the offense based on plays we would like to run. A lot of movements for those off the ball would likely be similar between all three, but the threat they oppose to defenses based on who is the ball handler changes. It's been proven that having only one person of being the PBH is a bad thing in the NBA, heck even two can be still get bogged down, but having 3 people that can be PBH and have plays that can be unique to them while also having overlap in them would be another wrinkle that could help them in their growth.

they can, but not to the same end... at least not on the timeline that keeps them in the high lottery next summer. The Cavs are going to lose a lot if the optimal lineup isn't utilized ,but that scenario could make them good enough to easily fall out of the top 5 and be picking 8-10 range or worse forfeit it. not likely but possible with a healthy Love and possible aint acceptable imo if they are building for the contender status. They have to get a player that is elite in next years draft...they have to strike gold to take them past the odds of being a treadmill team
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#10 » by Revenged25 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 8:20 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:just an fyi If they wanted to win now if it were not for the development requirements along with the desire to retain picks and actually build a contender instead of being impatient and pushing for mediocrity; I would definitely consider using Cedi as the lead ball handler in the point forward role with Sexton,Garland,KPJ and Windler playing off of him draining 3's and attacking the basket along with Love or Nance on elbow and Henson or TT in the middle.


I don't see why they can't do both, in regards to development and using Cedi as a lead ball handler. In an ideal situation we would be able to run with any of Cedi, Garland, or Sexton being able to start up the offense based on plays we would like to run. A lot of movements for those off the ball would likely be similar between all three, but the threat they oppose to defenses based on who is the ball handler changes. It's been proven that having only one person of being the PBH is a bad thing in the NBA, heck even two can be still get bogged down, but having 3 people that can be PBH and have plays that can be unique to them while also having overlap in them would be another wrinkle that could help them in their growth.

they can, but not to the same end... at least not on the timeline that keeps them in the high lottery next summer. The Cavs are going to lose a lot if the optimal lineup isn't utilized ,but that scenario could make them good enough to easily fall out of the top 5 and be picking 8-10 range or worse forfeit it. not likely but possible with a healthy Love and possible aint acceptable imo if they are building for the contender status. They have to get a player that is elite in next years draft...they have to strike gold to take them past the odds of being a treadmill team


Isn't next year's draft pretty stacked? At long as we keep the pick there is a very high chance of finding someone elite. I need to look into him some more, but the highlight videos of Deni Avdija seem really promising to me and someone I think would be great for the Cavs.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#11 » by Stillwater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 9:16 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I don't see why they can't do both, in regards to development and using Cedi as a lead ball handler. In an ideal situation we would be able to run with any of Cedi, Garland, or Sexton being able to start up the offense based on plays we would like to run. A lot of movements for those off the ball would likely be similar between all three, but the threat they oppose to defenses based on who is the ball handler changes. It's been proven that having only one person of being the PBH is a bad thing in the NBA, heck even two can be still get bogged down, but having 3 people that can be PBH and have plays that can be unique to them while also having overlap in them would be another wrinkle that could help them in their growth.

they can, but not to the same end... at least not on the timeline that keeps them in the high lottery next summer. The Cavs are going to lose a lot if the optimal lineup isn't utilized ,but that scenario could make them good enough to easily fall out of the top 5 and be picking 8-10 range or worse forfeit it. not likely but possible with a healthy Love and possible aint acceptable imo if they are building for the contender status. They have to get a player that is elite in next years draft...they have to strike gold to take them past the odds of being a treadmill team


Isn't next year's draft pretty stacked? At long as we keep the pick there is a very high chance of finding someone elite. I need to look into him some more, but the highlight videos of Deni Avdija seem really promising to me and someone I think would be great for the Cavs.

idk yet about the intl options.


For elite ceiling options I like Wiseman the most but he isn't a great fit in Beleins offense until he becomes a better floor stretcher so that might hurt his stock with the Cavs.I'd consider Jalen Smith if he has added a higher usage outside shot in the 4-6 range as a compromise.
N'Faly Dante is also a name to watch as a potential elite center prospect that reclassified.
The only other elite options that are not guards for me that make sense right now are Achiuwa because of his Westbrook level athleticism and upside on both sides of the ball at the 3/4 and Jaden McDaniels as a Covington type if they can improve their shooting, but right now are not a good enough perimeter shooters to be considered elite options.
I also love the beast physical specimen for defense and the fit of Isaiah Stewart but he too needs to improve significantly offensively to be considered elite./
I still like RJ Hampton as a sleeper top 3 pick but unfortunately unlikely to be a cavs target.
I would not be surprised if they are seriously scouting sophs Bassey, Agbaji, EJ Montgomery incase they fall out of the top 4 again.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#12 » by mg » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:00 pm

^Precious Achiuwa who will be playing as a freshman at Memphis intrigues me for the next draft. I'll be keeping an eye on him this coming season. Right now he's a tweener and a 2" bigger version of Jaylen Brown but athletically/defensively could be a real nice long term fit. Mainly just a dunker at this point and might be the most explosive athlete in the next draft. It will be interesting to see how the other aspects of his game develop. From the McDonald's game he plays hard and is a good rebounder too.
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Re: looking ahead 

Post#13 » by Stillwater » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:31 am

mg wrote:^Precious Achiuwa who will be playing as a freshman at Memphis intrigues me for the next draft. I'll be keeping an eye on him this coming season. Right now he's a tweener and a 2" bigger version of Jaylen Brown but athletically/defensively could be a real nice long term fit. Mainly just a dunker at this point and might be the most explosive athlete in the next draft. It will be interesting to see how the other aspects of his game develop. From the McDonald's game he plays hard and is a good rebounder too.

yeah I'm curious about the overall skill level Amar Sylla who I have not seen much of but there have been reports he is a potential sim to Siakim but isn't quite as long but is even more of a freakish two foot leaper w/ 34" + standing vert which is **** unbelievable so he apparently has elite attacking skill as a slasher and decent ability to put the ball on the floor. IN the negative column He also despite having decent shooting form and % despite low attempt rates apparently does not have NBA 3 point range yet but is getting there.
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