Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion.

[gflem]

I trust the doughnut maker in the 711 to not sneeze more than I trust the scouting dept of the Cavs

Yeah, I feel you on the scouting dept. I was more alluding to the Sixers six year tank job being the impetus for changing the lottery process.

The Cavs of course contributed to the demise of the old lottery system as well with our 3 #1 picks in 4 years.

Well, maybe so but only one of those actually worked out. And that one wasn't even a tank job it was the Clippers pick that got Kryrie here. Another never suited up for us and the other probably never should have. Wow, just typing that makes me shake my head.

[gflem]

I’m just sad because I really wanted Wiseman.

It will just be a hard pill for me to swallow if the Warriors select Wiseman and he ends up as the next generational center.

But I will say I’ll be very content with Okongwu. He’s a beast. Just a little undersized.

Yeah, me too. So, the target at number 5 is?
Okongwu?
Okoro?
Avdija?
Vassell?
Toppin?
Haliburton?
Other?

[Stillwater]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/759964/

Here I have Edwards,JW,LB and Okongwu all taken 1-4 where Cavs decide to trade back knowing the odds are high they can get one of Okoro,Vassell or Avdija at 8.
they also make a 2nd deal with Miami who see little difference between 20 and 27 other than them saving some $ and they pick up the 38th from CLE that they got from NY.
I also have the Cavs buying a pick from GSW at 51 to stash Kalaitzakis sf/pf Kedainiai Nevezis (Lithuania)
and for the hell of it have them trading a top 55 protected future to bring in a legit Delly replacement pg in Pritchard at 60th.
That last pick could also be instead used on a plethora of decent prospects like Breein Tyree, Freddie Gallespi , Robert Woodard or an athletic freak like Niven Hart or Nahziah Carter could be an interesting Okoro back up

[JonFromVA]

Yeah, I feel you on the scouting dept. I was more alluding to the Sixers six year tank job being the impetus for changing the lottery process.

The Cavs of course contributed to the demise of the old lottery system as well with our 3 #1 picks in 4 years.

Well, maybe so but only one of those actually worked out. And that one wasn't even a tank job it was the Clippers pick that got Kryrie here. Another never suited up for us and the other probably never should have. Wow, just typing that makes me shake my head.

Yes, the Cavs weren't trying to tank the entire time. We just stunk and had good luck in the lottery; but it got people think of changing the format to prevent one team getting top picks and other deserving teams none.

Then Hinkie came along and embarrassed the league with his unabashed tanking.

fwiw, this draft doesn't have a clear order and Wiseman or someone thought of as top 3 could easily fall to 5.

[Stillwater]

The Cavs of course contributed to the demise of the old lottery system as well with our 3 #1 picks in 4 years.

Well, maybe so but only one of those actually worked out. And that one wasn't even a tank job it was the Clippers pick that got Kryrie here. Another never suited up for us and the other probably never should have. Wow, just typing that makes me shake my head.

Yes, the Cavs weren't trying to tank the entire time. We just stunk and had good luck in the lottery; but it got people think of changing the format to prevent one team getting top picks and other deserving teams none.

Then Hinkie came along and embarrassed the league with his unabashed tanking.

fwiw, this draft doesn't have a clear order and Wiseman or someone thought of as top 3 could easily fall to 5.

Unlikely one of Chicago or Charlotte doesnt have Wiseman as their #1 target . But if it happens it would be because Okongwu has shown more.I would think someone will potentially trade up to 2 with GSW if Wisemans not taken 1st which seems unlikely too since Kat has the position locked up.
Of course anything is possible and there has been some orgs putting out bs info that Wiseman should not be a top 5 pick.

[JonFromVA]

Well, maybe so but only one of those actually worked out. And that one wasn't even a tank job it was the Clippers pick that got Kryrie here. Another never suited up for us and the other probably never should have. Wow, just typing that makes me shake my head.

Yes, the Cavs weren't trying to tank the entire time. We just stunk and had good luck in the lottery; but it got people think of changing the format to prevent one team getting top picks and other deserving teams none.

Then Hinkie came along and embarrassed the league with his unabashed tanking.

fwiw, this draft doesn't have a clear order and Wiseman or someone thought of as top 3 could easily fall to 5.

Unlikely one of Chicago or Charlotte doesnt have Wiseman as their #1 target . But if it happens it would be because Okongwu has shown more.I would think someone will potentially trade up to 2 with GSW if Wisemans not taken 1st which seems unlikely too since Kat has the position locked up.
Of course anything is possible and there has been some orgs putting out bs info that Wiseman should not be a top 5 pick.

There are big question marks drafting a big high let alone one who only played a few games; but Wiseman is just an example. Ball has plenty of question marks and worries with his Father to boot.

The Warriors for instance will look to trade, but may not find a good deal and instead look to the longterm future, or look for someone who can help now leading to multiple potential outcomes just for them.

[tundraknight]

I’m just sad because I really wanted Wiseman.

It will just be a hard pill for me to swallow if the Warriors select Wiseman and he ends up as the next generational center.

But I will say I’ll be very content with Okongwu. He’s a beast. Just a little undersized.

Yeah, me too. So, the target at number 5 is?
Okongwu?
Okoro?
Avdija?
Vassell?
Toppin?
Haliburton?
Other?

Yeah probably someone on that list unless a miracle happens and Wiseman slips or we trade up.

But anyway I think you can also add Killian Hayes to that list. If the Cavaliers management truly believes he’s the BPA at #5.

At 6’5″, Hayes possesses terrific size for a point guard, enabling him to see over the top of defenses and pressure opposing PG’s into turnovers. And at just 19 years of age, he’s still growing, both in stature and skills-wise. He seems to have a lot of upside.

[Stillwater]

with the top 4 harder to predict than the top 2 it makes it difficult to project "exactly" who will be available at 5.
But I think you can be 100% confident that Edwards wont be there and 90% confident Wiseman wont be there, and 85% confident Ball wont be there... but who the 4th man is could be just about 6 different prospects.
My guess is if the most likely 3 go 1-3 CHI will either value Okongwu or Okoro the most. But I also could see them trading the pick to NY and taking somone else at 8, which of course could f the Cavs same as last draft getting frogged esp if the Bulls trade down with a different team not targetting pgs but wings and bigs same as CLE

[Revenged25]

with the top 4 harder to predict than the top 2 it makes it difficult to project "exactly" who will be available at 5.
But I think you can be 100% confident that Edwards wont be there and 90% confident Wiseman wont be there, and 85% confident Ball wont be there... but who the 4th man is could be just about 6 different prospects.
My guess is if the most likely 3 go 1-3 CHI will either value Okongwu or Okoro the most. But I also could see them trading the pick to NY and taking somone else at 8, which of course could f the Cavs same as last draft getting frogged esp if the Bulls trade down with a different team not targetting pgs but wings and bigs same as CLE

I wouldn't be surprised if the top 4 went Edwards/Wiseman/Okongwu/Ball

[tundraknight]

Here is a possible trade down scenario although the odds are slim they would move down this much. I mean the 5th for a mid post lottery pick and 2 late picks seems fair in this one, maybe cavs throw in McKinnie too.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/698042/
The point would be their true top tier targets are gone or most anyway and they want to aquire some late round role players with sleeping upsides.
Boston would maybe give up the 3 picks given 2 are late first in a weak draft esp if getting a high floor win now offensive player is worth it to them.
I have CLE taking a underrated big in Stewart, a sleeper 3/4 defender in Bey and the high energy swingman and big time sleeper in Hinton.
I would much rather have these 3 for fit than overpicking somebody for fit at 5 or 6.

I honestly just get a “meh” feeling for the majority of the players in this supposedly weak draft. Sure you could maybe find some decent rotation players by trading down but nobody that will really thread the needle.

The 2021 Draft is projected to be so much better. It looks to have the type of wings that actually have All Star potential. Along with the versatile Big Evan Mobley who gives me Kevin Garnett vibes.

I was thinking if the Cavaliers don’t fall in love with anybody at #5, if they’d consider trading out of this draft in return for an unprotected 1st in 2021 or even 2022 which will supposedly be the “Super Draft” with Emoni Bates.

For example if a team like the Knicks wanted Killian Hayes badly and wanted to trade for our #5 pick. I could still see that team lottery bound the following season, and the 1st would go to the Cavs.

[Stillwater]

Here is a possible trade down scenario although the odds are slim they would move down this much. I mean the 5th for a mid post lottery pick and 2 late picks seems fair in this one, maybe cavs throw in McKinnie too.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/698042/
The point would be their true top tier targets are gone or most anyway and they want to aquire some late round role players with sleeping upsides.
Boston would maybe give up the 3 picks given 2 are late first in a weak draft esp if getting a high floor win now offensive player is worth it to them.
I have CLE taking a underrated big in Stewart, a sleeper 3/4 defender in Bey and the high energy swingman and big time sleeper in Hinton.
I would much rather have these 3 for fit than overpicking somebody for fit at 5 or 6.

I honestly just get a “meh” feeling for the majority of the players in this supposedly weak draft. Sure you could maybe find some decent rotation players by trading down but nobody that will really thread the needle.

The 2021 Draft is projected to be so much better. It looks to have the type of wings that actually have All Star potential. Along with the versatile Big Evan Mobley who gives me Kevin Garnett vibes.

I was thinking if the Cavaliers don’t fall in love with anybody at #5, if they’d consider trading out of this draft in return for an unprotected 1st in 2021 or even 2022 which will supposedly be the “Super Draft” with Emoni Bates.

For example if a team like the Knicks wanted Killian Hayes badly and wanted to trade for our #5 pick. I could still see that team lottery bound the following season, and the 1st would go to the Cavs.

well if they continue to draft long term projects like most high lottery teams do they will be comfortably sitting in the 7-9 range by record next draft anyway. I dont think any team that would also be bad enough for a high lottery pick next draft would move their pick for one in this draft at all. not for 5 anyway. I could see some kind of movement but in the end these are just shot in the dark ideas.
Best bet is to buy a mid to late 1st from a tax team after picking at 5 if a player they like falls to that range.
or if nothing else buy a 2nd although they are probably not going to get many available until the 40s.
with the lack of clear separation in upsides after 25 in this draft the high 2nds are worth more than the late 1sts to tax teams.

[Stillwater]

with the top 4 harder to predict than the top 2 it makes it difficult to project "exactly" who will be available at 5.
But I think you can be 100% confident that Edwards wont be there and 90% confident Wiseman wont be there, and 85% confident Ball wont be there... but who the 4th man is could be just about 6 different prospects.
My guess is if the most likely 3 go 1-3 CHI will either value Okongwu or Okoro the most. But I also could see them trading the pick to NY and taking somone else at 8, which of course could f the Cavs same as last draft getting frogged esp if the Bulls trade down with a different team not targetting pgs but wings and bigs same as CLE

I wouldn't be surprised if the top 4 went Edwards/Wiseman/Okongwu/Ball

yeah maybe , I think CHA will take a pg if JW and AE are 1-2 even if its not Ball.
who trades with GSW will get the wheels turning on follow up deals

[JonFromVA]

Here is a possible trade down scenario although the odds are slim they would move down this much. I mean the 5th for a mid post lottery pick and 2 late picks seems fair in this one, maybe cavs throw in McKinnie too.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/698042/
The point would be their true top tier targets are gone or most anyway and they want to aquire some late round role players with sleeping upsides.
Boston would maybe give up the 3 picks given 2 are late first in a weak draft esp if getting a high floor win now offensive player is worth it to them.
I have CLE taking a underrated big in Stewart, a sleeper 3/4 defender in Bey and the high energy swingman and big time sleeper in Hinton.
I would much rather have these 3 for fit than overpicking somebody for fit at 5 or 6.

I honestly just get a “meh” feeling for the majority of the players in this supposedly weak draft. Sure you could maybe find some decent rotation players by trading down but nobody that will really thread the needle.

The 2021 Draft is projected to be so much better. It looks to have the type of wings that actually have All Star potential. Along with the versatile Big Evan Mobley who gives me Kevin Garnett vibes.

I was thinking if the Cavaliers don’t fall in love with anybody at #5, if they’d consider trading out of this draft in return for an unprotected 1st in 2021 or even 2022 which will supposedly be the “Super Draft” with Emoni Bates.

For example if a team like the Knicks wanted Killian Hayes badly and wanted to trade for our #5 pick. I could still see that team lottery bound the following season, and the 1st would go to the Cavs.

well if they continue to draft long term projects like most high lottery teams do they will be comfortably sitting in the 7-9 range by record next draft anyway. I dont think any team that would also be bad enough for a high lottery pick next draft would move their pick for one in this draft at all. not for 5 anyway. I could see some kind of movement but in the end these are just shot in the dark ideas.
Best bet is to buy a mid to late 1st from a tax team after picking at 5 if a player they like falls to that range.
or if nothing else buy a 2nd although they are probably not going to get many available until the 40s.
with the lack of clear separation in upsides after 25 in this draft the high 2nds are worth more than the late 1sts to tax teams.

The Cavs want to make the playoffs next year and might make some moves to accelerate that, but hey we ended up with the #1 pick the last time they tried that.

Either way I wouldn't trade the 5th pick we can start developing this next season for an unknown future pick.

[Stillwater]

^Unless they are picking for a different team at 5, if they really are going to kill the rebuild this soon and fast forward the result would be a mediocre 6-8 seed non contender playoff roster via trades at best with no room for improvement except from within.
Could be smarter if they dont trade out for a vet to be looking at high floor prospects either Okongwu Vassell or even Obi at 5 to expedite but not kill the rebuild.i mean if someone different available is the bpa but would mean years of developing them before they can help win games consistently esp in the playoffs like Hayes or Wiseman or Okoro.
I hope they stop making tanking moves after next season but with Covid and slim fan involvement in person i just assume they keep developing.
In a lot of scenarios Okongwu will not only be the highest floor but the highest upside for us if available at 5.

[Revenged25]

^Unless they are picking for a different team at 5, if they really are going to kill the rebuild this soon and fast forward the result would be a mediocre 6-8 seed non contender playoff roster via trades at best with no room for improvement except from within.
Could be smarter if they dont trade out for a vet to be looking at high floor prospects either Okongwu Vassell or even Obi at 5 to expedite but not kill the rebuild.i mean if someone different available is the bpa but would mean years of developing them before they can help win games consistently esp in the playoffs like Hayes or Wiseman or Okoro.
I hope they stop making tanking moves after next season but with Covid and slim fan involvement in person i just assume they keep developing.
In a lot of scenarios Okongwu will not only be the highest floor but the highest upside for us if available at 5.

I mean easiest way to stop tanking and possibly still get a development piece is something like the trade we all bashed in T&T. Somehing like 5 & Exum for 10 & Oubre. Oubre is an instant upgrade over Cedi and we can still look to get someone like Jalen Smith, Poku, etc at #10 or even Vassell or Okoro if one of them falls.

[Stillwater]

^Unless they are picking for a different team at 5, if they really are going to kill the rebuild this soon and fast forward the result would be a mediocre 6-8 seed non contender playoff roster via trades at best with no room for improvement except from within.
Could be smarter if they dont trade out for a vet to be looking at high floor prospects either Okongwu Vassell or even Obi at 5 to expedite but not kill the rebuild.i mean if someone different available is the bpa but would mean years of developing them before they can help win games consistently esp in the playoffs like Hayes or Wiseman or Okoro.
I hope they stop making tanking moves after next season but with Covid and slim fan involvement in person i just assume they keep developing.
In a lot of scenarios Okongwu will not only be the highest floor but the highest upside for us if available at 5.

I mean easiest way to stop tanking and possibly still get a development piece is something like the trade we all bashed in T&T. Somehing like 5 & Exum for 10 & Oubre. Oubre is an instant upgrade over Cedi and we can still look to get someone like Jalen Smith, Poku, etc at #10 or even Vassell or Okoro if one of them falls.

Oubre is expecting to get paid more than he is worth and this org would be fools to absorb the Suns delemna with having to overpay him to retain his services.
I for one dont have much confidence there is any chance they are trying to fast forward the rebuild or kill it by trading out all together unless it includes future draft capitol returning which is a slim to none odds of being offerred imo.
I would not hate if they trade down a few picks to say 8 with NY if and only if they'de give us the DAL 21 1st which wont be that special but an assett none the less in addition to the 27th and 38th this year. esp if my top 4 targets were gone which could obviously differ from the actual targets or bpas in the war room, but if Okongwu and Wiseman at minimum were gone where the Cavs decide to pick up additional assets and hope they can still get a solid upside prospect or a maybe if lucky one of Vassell or Okoro slides, but the reality is moving down 3 spots like that could all but ensure Hayes Vassell and Okoro go 5,6,7 to NY,ATL and Detroit respectively. UNless ATL like Deni.
The best case there would be Detroit goes PG over BPA and one of those 2 wings is there at 8, worse case in the regard and they would take whomever is left between Halliburton and Toppin.
Alot of fans on these boards are with you on the Deni train, I still just dont see top 5 level prospect not for this roster anyway but this org might buy in given the lack of elite playmaking from either combo guard if they think he will become an efficient scorer down the road. But right away it just opens up a huge hole because they actually get worse defensively after doing so if he is inserted ahead of Cedi . Deni imo is a 3-4 tweener with some point forward skill and can use his IQ to make on the move adjustments and so he is going to be a smart player sort of like SLOMO in Memphis previuosly with SAS. But I dont think he has the handles to attack the paint effectively or break down defenses and his outside shot is very questionable so I continue to stay low on his stock for now.

[Stillwater]

I think there is a significant chance they target Vassell who I think was held back in FLA ST offensively the more I watch his tape even with more polarizing options available

[jbk1234]

^Unless they are picking for a different team at 5, if they really are going to kill the rebuild this soon and fast forward the result would be a mediocre 6-8 seed non contender playoff roster via trades at best with no room for improvement except from within.
Could be smarter if they dont trade out for a vet to be looking at high floor prospects either Okongwu Vassell or even Obi at 5 to expedite but not kill the rebuild.i mean if someone different available is the bpa but would mean years of developing them before they can help win games consistently esp in the playoffs like Hayes or Wiseman or Okoro.
I hope they stop making tanking moves after next season but with Covid and slim fan involvement in person i just assume they keep developing.
In a lot of scenarios Okongwu will not only be the highest floor but the highest upside for us if available at 5.

I mean easiest way to stop tanking and possibly still get a development piece is something like the trade we all bashed in T&T. Somehing like 5 & Exum for 10 & Oubre. Oubre is an instant upgrade over Cedi and we can still look to get someone like Jalen Smith, Poku, etc at #10 or even Vassell or Okoro if one of them falls.

If Oubre is willing to sign in Cleveland, and he's willing to sign for a reasonable amount, then we can just sign him next summer. But those are huge ifs. Unless I'm missing something, he's unrestricted. He could just walk.

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[Revenged25]

^Unless they are picking for a different team at 5, if they really are going to kill the rebuild this soon and fast forward the result would be a mediocre 6-8 seed non contender playoff roster via trades at best with no room for improvement except from within.
Could be smarter if they dont trade out for a vet to be looking at high floor prospects either Okongwu Vassell or even Obi at 5 to expedite but not kill the rebuild.i mean if someone different available is the bpa but would mean years of developing them before they can help win games consistently esp in the playoffs like Hayes or Wiseman or Okoro.
I hope they stop making tanking moves after next season but with Covid and slim fan involvement in person i just assume they keep developing.
In a lot of scenarios Okongwu will not only be the highest floor but the highest upside for us if available at 5.

I mean easiest way to stop tanking and possibly still get a development piece is something like the trade we all bashed in T&T. Somehing like 5 & Exum for 10 & Oubre. Oubre is an instant upgrade over Cedi and we can still look to get someone like Jalen Smith, Poku, etc at #10 or even Vassell or Okoro if one of them falls.

If Oubre is willing to sign in Cleveland, and he's willing to sign for a reasonable amount, then we can just sign him next summer. But those are huge ifs. Unless I'm missing something, he's unrestricted. He could just walk.

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Oh I agree, I'm just saying the easiest way to stop tanking and immediately win was that, not that we should do it.

[jbk1234]

I mean easiest way to stop tanking and possibly still get a development piece is something like the trade we all bashed in T&T. Somehing like 5 & Exum for 10 & Oubre. Oubre is an instant upgrade over Cedi and we can still look to get someone like Jalen Smith, Poku, etc at #10 or even Vassell or Okoro if one of them falls.

If Oubre is willing to sign in Cleveland, and he's willing to sign for a reasonable amount, then we can just sign him next summer. But those are huge ifs. Unless I'm missing something, he's unrestricted. He could just walk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Oh I agree, I'm just saying the easiest way to stop tanking and immediately win was that, not that we should do it.

I feel like it's way too early to bring in a high usage guy like Oubre. First we have to see if the version of Sexton we saw in the second half of last season was real. If he actually took the next step, or if he was just playing against inferior competition who took their foot off the gas. That's priority number 1 in my estimation and he has to be lead guard to make to that determination. This will be his third year and we need to know whether we can build around him, or not.

My second priority would be seeing what we have in KPJ, Windler, and whoever we draft - preferably at No. 5. If some team wants to move up, I'd want additional draft capital from a future draft. Swap rights with another likely lottery team would also work.

My third priority would be to see if we can salvage some of Garland's value as a backup PG.

We're still in evaluation mode. We don't really have that good of an idea of what we have in terms of talent. That's a product of the one and done era. But going through the pain of tanking and rushing to judgment on guys who are 19 or even 20 years old is dumb. Everyone should get at least two full years and enough run that you feel like you're making an informed decision on who that player is and who they will be. In terms of development, I'd like to see if these players can start playing as a team instead of a bunch of individuals alongside each other.