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Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion.

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JonFromVA
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#421 » by JonFromVA » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:27 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I mean Love is under contract and doesn't have much of a trade market so I'm not really worried about convincing him to stick around. As far as Drummond, his biggest defensive weakness is the 1-5 high PNR which just happens to be the most commonly run play in the NBA. Given the fact that all of Love, Sexton, and Garland also all suck at it, I don't think there's a way to make it work. You can put Okoro on the other team's PG and try to hide Sexton. You can maybe have Love check the screener and have Drummond rotate over at the rim in a junk zone. But it's just a lot easier if you have an athletic lengthy big all the way out there who can frustrate the point of attack and still recover on the roll.


My point here is that according to the media the only thing Love, Drummond, or even Thompson want out of the Cavs is that we can potentially get them paid AND put them on another team. But maybe, it's not that cut & dry ... maybe they'd be happy to be paid and play for the Cavs if they felt we were going to compete. And perhaps Okoro is a sign that we're looking to fix our defense with them .vs. replace them.

As for Drummond and our defense, team D should never be as cut & dry as a single flaw. We all saw Zydrunas Illgauskus and his leaden feet playing show & recover when nobody thought he could move that far that fast. More recently we've seen Brook Lopez anchor the league's top defense (and he just drops back), and when Drummond was on the Pistons they were respectable on D.

So, it's not just one player wrecking the D or fixing it, it's the group figuring out how to defend together as a unit and the coach implementing a system that fits the personnel and achieving buy-in.


That's why it's important whether these guys are "fitting in" or "fitting out" ... if they're just bidding their time until they're on another team, they will sabotage any chance we have to build a defensive identity.

If we drafted Toppin or Okowungu the message would have been more along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out".


Sorry, but personnel matters. Brook plays with an athletic 7 foot shot blocker alongside him in the starting unit. His lay back and play center field approach was exposed pretty badly against the Heat. Big Z played on some pretty good defensive teams as well. You can hide a guy or two on defense so long as you get buy in. You can't hide three bad defenders in your starting unit. No amount of buy in going to make Garland and Sexton work in the same backcourt defensively.


Drummond is a 7ft shot blocker and there's Okoro who can help if he's playing SF. Sexton needs a court awareness upgrade, Garland needs strength, and Love needs to give a bleep.

Just need coaching, teaching, willingness, effort, and continuity.

Did I imply somewhere it would be easy to fix our D?

It's not, but it's possible ... given the right circumstances.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#422 » by jbk1234 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:30 am

LivingLegend wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Kenneth Faried? What the hell happened to that guy, he was a monster early with DEN and then out of nowhere turned into complete garbage


My top three targets are Noel, Howard, and Biyombo, WCS. Poetl is a RFA. Favors, Giles, Bobby Portis, and Jymichael Green are also available. There are a lot of quality big men who are FAs this year, like a lot, and not enough money to go around.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-center-market-212748528.html

https://www.yahoo.com/now/breaking-down-the-nba-freeagent-power-forward-market-191745735.html


Whats your opinion of Harry Giles? Hes only 22 and wasnt he highly regarded coming out?
I like him. He'd be a guy I'd offer a prove it contract to after I nailed down the bigger signing. We nabbed Bell already.

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#423 » by jbk1234 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:51 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
My point here is that according to the media the only thing Love, Drummond, or even Thompson want out of the Cavs is that we can potentially get them paid AND put them on another team. But maybe, it's not that cut & dry ... maybe they'd be happy to be paid and play for the Cavs if they felt we were going to compete. And perhaps Okoro is a sign that we're looking to fix our defense with them .vs. replace them.

As for Drummond and our defense, team D should never be as cut & dry as a single flaw. We all saw Zydrunas Illgauskus and his leaden feet playing show & recover when nobody thought he could move that far that fast. More recently we've seen Brook Lopez anchor the league's top defense (and he just drops back), and when Drummond was on the Pistons they were respectable on D.

So, it's not just one player wrecking the D or fixing it, it's the group figuring out how to defend together as a unit and the coach implementing a system that fits the personnel and achieving buy-in.


That's why it's important whether these guys are "fitting in" or "fitting out" ... if they're just bidding their time until they're on another team, they will sabotage any chance we have to build a defensive identity.

If we drafted Toppin or Okowungu the message would have been more along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the way out".


Sorry, but personnel matters. Brook plays with an athletic 7 foot shot blocker alongside him in the starting unit. His lay back and play center field approach was exposed pretty badly against the Heat. Big Z played on some pretty good defensive teams as well. You can hide a guy or two on defense so long as you get buy in. You can't hide three bad defenders in your starting unit. No amount of buy in going to make Garland and Sexton work in the same backcourt defensively.


Drummond is a 7ft shot blocker and there's Okoro who can help if he's playing SF. Sexton needs a court awareness upgrade, Garland needs strength, and Love needs to give a bleep.

Just need coaching, teaching, willingness, effort, and continuity.

Did I imply somewhere it would be easy to fix our D?

It's not, but it's possible ... given the right circumstances.
I think we just fundamentally disagree as to whether Sexton and Garland should ever start in the same back court again. Which is okay. This America. We can disagree.

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#424 » by Stillwater » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:46 am

Giles has had quite some time to prove himself and yeas he was skilled enough in HS to be a potential #1 pick for awhile but remember he tore his mcl acl and meniscus all at the same time and then while trying to come back too soon tore the acl in his other leg.
He was touted as a high iq paint presence rim protector and old school footwork post moves offensively. He never has shot the 3 doesnt even try etc. I guess if he finally is healthy my only question is why didnt SAC do more to keep him?
He was supposed to be another KG who knows maybe the Cavs take a flier get lucky and hes a shadow of that
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#425 » by tleikheen » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:33 am

He was touted as a high iq paint presence rim protector and old school footwork post moves offensively. He never has shot the 3 doesnt even try etc. I guess if he finally is healthy my only question is why didnt SAC do more to keep him?
He was supposed to be another KG who knows maybe the Cavs take a flier get lucky and hes a shadow of that


He was playing without knee problems the 2nd half of the year after Vlade and crew declined to pick up his option .He played good and a lot of fans were upset at his age he was cast off . The only thing I was trying to find out was if he lost his explosion. But at 22 he's just gaining confidence at the NBA level.
Cleveland would be smart to go hard at signing him ,Giles is a great passer.
Josh Jackson ,6'8" SG , and only 23 yrs old is anothe reclamation who looks like he's matured .
Exum ,Giles and Jackson would be long and lean and fast ,They'd be ready to replace the much more expensive team mates of a last place team defensively and record wise.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#426 » by jbk1234 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:17 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Plumlee plays a lot of good minutes and I would take him in a heartbeat. I watch Denver a ton and they've basically been second favorite team for awhile.
I feel like Plumlee is a guy who you have to be real careful with in terms of the amount you offer. He'd be good value on a deal for $5M per but bad value at $8M. I think you can find a plotting big man who gives you 70-80% of what Plumlee gives you for cheap.

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#427 » by tleikheen » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:35 pm

Plumlee is being pushed out for Bol Bol and Cleveland is a last place team that doesnt need older backups ,they need to get younger ,faster and leaner ,not slower
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#428 » by LivingLegend » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:52 pm

Stillwater wrote:Giles has had quite some time to prove himself and yeas he was skilled enough in HS to be a potential #1 pick for awhile but remember he tore his mcl acl and meniscus all at the same time and then while trying to come back too soon tore the acl in his other leg.
He was touted as a high iq paint presence rim protector and old school footwork post moves offensively. He never has shot the 3 doesnt even try etc. I guess if he finally is healthy my only question is why didnt SAC do more to keep him?
He was supposed to be another KG who knows maybe the Cavs take a flier get lucky and hes a shadow of that


Because Sacremento hasnt made a competent roster move in 20 years. Hes the perfect player the Cavs should go for IMO just like they went after Exum and Bell. They need to take chances on reclamation projects. Sit them at the end of the bench or send them to the G-League and see if you can strike gold.

Giles clearly has talent, maybe he just needs more seasoning or a change in system/scenery to unlock his potential.

Im all for it
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#429 » by Stillwater » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:26 pm

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Giles has had quite some time to prove himself and yeas he was skilled enough in HS to be a potential #1 pick for awhile but remember he tore his mcl acl and meniscus all at the same time and then while trying to come back too soon tore the acl in his other leg.
He was touted as a high iq paint presence rim protector and old school footwork post moves offensively. He never has shot the 3 doesnt even try etc. I guess if he finally is healthy my only question is why didnt SAC do more to keep him?
He was supposed to be another KG who knows maybe the Cavs take a flier get lucky and hes a shadow of that


Because Sacremento hasnt made a competent roster move in 20 years. Hes the perfect player the Cavs should go for IMO just like they went after Exum and Bell. They need to take chances on reclamation projects. Sit them at the end of the bench or send them to the G-League and see if you can strike gold.

Giles clearly has talent, maybe he just needs more seasoning or a change in system/scenery to unlock his potential.

Im all for it

I dont believe he is ever going to be the player he was touted to be in HS before his significant injuries or there would be significantly more interest in him than there is. Yes Sac has been a joke but the reality is Giles is not that special at this point.
I agree it would make some sense and would take a flier on him if they cant get someone with less risk but without being able to stretch the floor or defend at a high level inside all he is for now is a interior scorer that has struggled to safely add mass without increasing reinjury risk and despite actually getting stronger and adding the 30lbs since entering the league remains a liability defensively because his mobility is not great now.
idk but I think if you want lightning in a bottle you let TT walk and pay Christian Wood
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#430 » by Harper4Ferry? » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:31 am

So basically all the good players we could get for a full MLE are signing/on the verge of signing. I guess it’s Tristan year 9 or 10.. maybe he gets that jump shot working again. Maybe he can switch hands.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#431 » by Stillwater » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:00 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:So basically all the good players we could get for a full MLE are signing/on the verge of signing. I guess it’s Tristan year 9 or 10.. maybe he gets that jump shot working again. Maybe he can switch hands.

I highly doubt he is back. I guess maybe if he gets no offers at all but I doubt that. the only way he returns is if Altman pays him too much.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#432 » by LivingLegend » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:32 am

Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:So basically all the good players we could get for a full MLE are signing/on the verge of signing. I guess it’s Tristan year 9 or 10.. maybe he gets that jump shot working again. Maybe he can switch hands.

I highly doubt he is back. I guess maybe if he gets no offers at all but I doubt that. the only way he returns is if Altman pays him too much.


Yuuup. I can easily see him going to LAC, BOS or TOR especially TOR since they are losing Ibaka.

It depends on the money though.

Sidenote--2 guys the Cavs were linked to Derrick Jones/Josh Jackson both are signing elsewhere. Wish the Cavs could do soooomething and not make the big FA signing they make be Pat McCoughnatan.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#433 » by jbk1234 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:50 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:So basically all the good players we could get for a full MLE are signing/on the verge of signing. I guess it’s Tristan year 9 or 10.. maybe he gets that jump shot working again. Maybe he can switch hands.
I'll throw up if that's the Cavs big F.A. signing.

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#434 » by tundraknight » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 pm

Here’s the CBS Sports “Never Too Early” 2021 NBA Mock Draft which has the Cavaliers taking Evan Mobley #2 overall.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/never-too-early-2021-nba-mock-draft-two-kentucky-freshmen-in-top-10-of-pro-prospect-rankings-for-next-year/
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#435 » by tundraknight » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Here’s the CBS Sports “Never Too Early” 2021 NBA Mock Draft which has the Cavaliers taking Evan Mobley #2 overall.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/never-too-early-2021-nba-mock-draft-two-kentucky-freshmen-in-top-10-of-pro-prospect-rankings-for-next-year/

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#436 » by Stillwater » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:16 pm

tundraknight wrote:Here’s the CBS Sports “Never Too Early” 2021 NBA Mock Draft which has the Cavaliers taking Evan Mobley #2 overall.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/never-too-early-2021-nba-mock-draft-two-kentucky-freshmen-in-top-10-of-pro-prospect-rankings-for-next-year/


If Cavs are still in the bottom 3 by record then someone like this could be in play but I think unless they leap into the top 4 from a likely late lottery position than Mobley is not going to be there.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#437 » by tundraknight » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:
tundraknight wrote:Here’s the CBS Sports “Never Too Early” 2021 NBA Mock Draft which has the Cavaliers taking Evan Mobley #2 overall.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/never-too-early-2021-nba-mock-draft-two-kentucky-freshmen-in-top-10-of-pro-prospect-rankings-for-next-year/


If Cavs are still in the bottom 3 by record then someone like this could be in play but I think unless they leap into the top 4 from a likely late lottery position than Mobley is not going to be there.


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/2020-nba-power-rankings-ranking-all-30-teams-post-draft-landscape

The latest Power Rankings from 2 days ago has the Cavaliers ranked dead last. I know it’s still very early obviously. But we may be having another thread just like this one for next season if we’re going to be as bad as people think. A “Cavaliers 2021 Draft Discussion” thread may be amendment.

I just don’t want to get the 5th pick 3 years in a row. So hopefully we can turn our luck around next lottery. But at least next years Draft is projected to be much better.
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#438 » by jbk1234 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:01 pm

I can't start thinking about next year's draft yet. It's too depressing.

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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#439 » by Stillwater » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:23 pm

I dont even think there is much chance the Cavs are not in the top 4 for karma sake because they will try harder to win this season and at least be sitting 7-12 range if all goes as improved as it was right before the season got stopped which imo will get them a lucky lottery ball because teams who dont tank should be rewarded when they suck smh
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Re: Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion. 

Post#440 » by Stillwater » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:23 pm

tundraknight wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
tundraknight wrote:Here’s the CBS Sports “Never Too Early” 2021 NBA Mock Draft which has the Cavaliers taking Evan Mobley #2 overall.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/never-too-early-2021-nba-mock-draft-two-kentucky-freshmen-in-top-10-of-pro-prospect-rankings-for-next-year/


If Cavs are still in the bottom 3 by record then someone like this could be in play but I think unless they leap into the top 4 from a likely late lottery position than Mobley is not going to be there.


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/2020-nba-power-rankings-ranking-all-30-teams-post-draft-landscape

The latest Power Rankings from 2 days ago has the Cavaliers ranked dead last. I know it’s still very early obviously. But we may be having another thread just like this one for next season if we’re going to be as bad as people think. A “Cavaliers 2021 Draft Discussion” thread may be amendment.

I just don’t want to get the 5th pick 3 years in a row. So hopefully we can turn our luck around next lottery. But at least next years Draft is projected to be much better.

lol the so called rankers also thought Toppin was a lock to be in CLE
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
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