which trades would be the best for this rebuild

[Revenged25]

Sekou is in the G league. He's played 11 minutes total in the NBA. People who would make that trade should probably ask how good Garland would look in the G League.

Garland would not look better than Sekou at all imo… he has had plenty of opportunities with the ball and no one on him to capitalize on unearned pt , I mean he has failed on pretty much every level so far. He will get better once he gets stronger, but how much better? Is he DJ Augustine or is he better than that? I'm guessing hes DJ.
Garlands numbers might be a little better I guess in the G league than now because he wouldn't be trying to pass to anyone and would take more shots and they don't play any defense down there but Sekou has shown far more than half the lottery picked players already just on defense and in catch and shoot makes and is stuck behind Blake or he would be playing more.
I can't believe some of you have this notion Sexton can't be an effective passer esp in a Beilein system that is apparently wanting to use two combo guards instead of one lead guard and one true off guard which they have neither of yet had every intention of having neither of when they made these picks. Sexton has already started showing significant iq improvement since he was drafted , and already has shown significant improvement with his handles and gotten much stronger. His vision is markedly better when they run even though he still struggles in half court sets ...I would not be at all surprised if he takes the job of point more often from Garland before the season is out if they do move towards traditional assignments and sets where Garland will get his chance in the G league putting up similar numbers to what he is right now as an nba starter and have zero aka bust trade value afterwards where at least right now somebody might still gamble on him needing a more traditional system to do well

The bolded doesn't even constitute a leap of faith, it's borderline delusional. Sekou can't get on the court and it's not because the Pistons have great wings in front of him. Maybe someday he develops into an NBA player, but he's not one right now. Garland at least looks like a credible backup at the moment. You really like Sexton and you want Garland gone because you're smart enough to realize that a Sexton/Garland back court isn't in the cards long term.

I think that a small back court can work but for it to do so you need both players to be able to play at least above average defense if not great defense. We've seen back courts like Rondo/Bradley work because they were both good/great defensively even if they were smaller, I just don't know if Garland will become the defensive player needed to run a small back-court though. I think we could run Sexton as the "PG" if we got a point forward though, part of why I'm really high on the idea of getting Deni Avdija who seems to be in a similar mold to Doncic though obviously trying to say he'll play at that level is unrealistic.

[jbk1234]

CLE doesn’t have anything worth Nurkic

If you're going to show up on another team's board and comment, this isn't the way to go about it.

Maybe re-phrasing would help;

There is no trade including Nurk that makes sense for both CLE and POR.

Better?

Better. And, I pretty much said that before you weighed in. Portland needs Nurkic to get back and return to form because they're clearly faltering without him.

[JRoy]

If you're going to show up on another team's board and comment, this isn't the way to go about it.

Maybe re-phrasing would help;

There is no trade including Nurk that makes sense for both CLE and POR.

Better?

Better. And, I pretty much said that before you weighed in. Portland needs Nurkic to get back and return to form because they're clearly faltering without him.

Well said.

This is one of several reasons why Love to Portland is problematic at best.

The only way I could see it working would be with CJ out to a third team, Love and assets from third team to POR and third team assets to CLE as CJ isn’t really a fit there.

[Stillwater]

Garland would not look better than Sekou at all imo… he has had plenty of opportunities with the ball and no one on him to capitalize on unearned pt , I mean he has failed on pretty much every level so far. He will get better once he gets stronger, but how much better? Is he DJ Augustine or is he better than that? I'm guessing hes DJ.
Garlands numbers might be a little better I guess in the G league than now because he wouldn't be trying to pass to anyone and would take more shots and they don't play any defense down there but Sekou has shown far more than half the lottery picked players already just on defense and in catch and shoot makes and is stuck behind Blake or he would be playing more.
I can't believe some of you have this notion Sexton can't be an effective passer esp in a Beilein system that is apparently wanting to use two combo guards instead of one lead guard and one true off guard which they have neither of yet had every intention of having neither of when they made these picks. Sexton has already started showing significant iq improvement since he was drafted , and already has shown significant improvement with his handles and gotten much stronger. His vision is markedly better when they run even though he still struggles in half court sets ...I would not be at all surprised if he takes the job of point more often from Garland before the season is out if they do move towards traditional assignments and sets where Garland will get his chance in the G league putting up similar numbers to what he is right now as an nba starter and have zero aka bust trade value afterwards where at least right now somebody might still gamble on him needing a more traditional system to do well

The bolded doesn't even constitute a leap of faith, it's borderline delusional. Sekou can't get on the court and it's not because the Pistons have great wings in front of him. Maybe someday he develops into an NBA player, but he's not one right now. Garland at least looks like a credible backup at the moment. You really like Sexton and you want Garland gone because you're smart enough to realize that a Sexton/Garland back court isn't in the cards long term.

I think that a small back court can work but for it to do so you need both players to be able to play at least above average defense if not great defense. We've seen back courts like Rondo/Bradley work because they were both good/great defensively even if they were smaller, I just don't know if Garland will become the defensive player needed to run a small back-court though. I think we could run Sexton as the "PG" if we got a point forward though, part of why I'm really high on the idea of getting Deni Avdija who seems to be in a similar mold to Doncic though obviously trying to say he'll play at that level is unrealistic.

sekou has shown way more overseas and in the gleague than garland has shown in highschool or the nba...i dont know why its so easy to dismiss sekou and ride the garland train to nowhere just because he isnt ready but is playing anyway. i dont want to trade garland i want to move sexton back on ball heavy and if that means trading garland and we can get value now then so be it. i said early on garland was the ikely 6th man type for us, but right now i think he isnt a good enough scorer to be that either. so i would trade him for Sekou and his 3/d and rim running in a milisecond.thats even with garland actually turning into a nba starter which he does not project as imo.

[Revenged25]

The bolded doesn't even constitute a leap of faith, it's borderline delusional. Sekou can't get on the court and it's not because the Pistons have great wings in front of him. Maybe someday he develops into an NBA player, but he's not one right now. Garland at least looks like a credible backup at the moment. You really like Sexton and you want Garland gone because you're smart enough to realize that a Sexton/Garland back court isn't in the cards long term.

I think that a small back court can work but for it to do so you need both players to be able to play at least above average defense if not great defense. We've seen back courts like Rondo/Bradley work because they were both good/great defensively even if they were smaller, I just don't know if Garland will become the defensive player needed to run a small back-court though. I think we could run Sexton as the "PG" if we got a point forward though, part of why I'm really high on the idea of getting Deni Avdija who seems to be in a similar mold to Doncic though obviously trying to say he'll play at that level is unrealistic.

sekou has shown way more overseas and in the gleague than garland has shown in highschool or the nba...i dont know why its so easy to dismiss sekou and ride the garland train to nowhere just because he isnt ready but is playing anyway. i dont want to trade garland i want to move sexton back on ball heavy and if that means trading garland and we can get value now then so be it. i said early on garland was the ikely 6th man type for us, but right now i think he isnt a good enough scorer to be that either. so i would trade him for Sekou and his 3/d and rim running in a milisecond.thats even with garland actually turning into a nba starter which he does not project as imo.

You realize I'm one of the people saying I'd trade Garland for Sekou right? I agree with you. I was simply stating that I'm not against the idea of a small back court, but it needs to have very specific type of players to pull it off. Garland isn't that type of player. Our best choice after Sekou since we obviously can't go back and swap Garland for Sekou now, is to hope for someone like Avdija who could be the better option as a playmaker/distributor and having Garland and Sexton both play off ball and hoping Garland's shooting picks up.

[jbk1234]

I think that a small back court can work but for it to do so you need both players to be able to play at least above average defense if not great defense. We've seen back courts like Rondo/Bradley work because they were both good/great defensively even if they were smaller, I just don't know if Garland will become the defensive player needed to run a small back-court though. I think we could run Sexton as the "PG" if we got a point forward though, part of why I'm really high on the idea of getting Deni Avdija who seems to be in a similar mold to Doncic though obviously trying to say he'll play at that level is unrealistic.

sekou has shown way more overseas and in the gleague than garland has shown in highschool or the nba...i dont know why its so easy to dismiss sekou and ride the garland train to nowhere just because he isnt ready but is playing anyway. i dont want to trade garland i want to move sexton back on ball heavy and if that means trading garland and we can get value now then so be it. i said early on garland was the ikely 6th man type for us, but right now i think he isnt a good enough scorer to be that either. so i would trade him for Sekou and his 3/d and rim running in a milisecond.thats even with garland actually turning into a nba starter which he does not project as imo.

You realize I'm one of the people saying I'd trade Garland for Sekou right? I agree with you. I was simply stating that I'm not against the idea of a small back court, but it needs to have very specific type of players to pull it off. Garland isn't that type of player. Our best choice after Sekou since we obviously can't go back and swap Garland for Sekou now, is to hope for someone like Avdija who could be the better option as a playmaker/distributor and having Garland and Sexton both play off ball and hoping Garland's shooting picks up.

Sekou isn't even playing that well in the G League. He's currently 60th in scoring among G League players.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Stillwater]

sekou has shown way more overseas and in the gleague than garland has shown in highschool or the nba...i dont know why its so easy to dismiss sekou and ride the garland train to nowhere just because he isnt ready but is playing anyway. i dont want to trade garland i want to move sexton back on ball heavy and if that means trading garland and we can get value now then so be it. i said early on garland was the ikely 6th man type for us, but right now i think he isnt a good enough scorer to be that either. so i would trade him for Sekou and his 3/d and rim running in a milisecond.thats even with garland actually turning into a nba starter which he does not project as imo.

You realize I'm one of the people saying I'd trade Garland for Sekou right? I agree with you. I was simply stating that I'm not against the idea of a small back court, but it needs to have very specific type of players to pull it off. Garland isn't that type of player. Our best choice after Sekou since we obviously can't go back and swap Garland for Sekou now, is to hope for someone like Avdija who could be the better option as a playmaker/distributor and having Garland and Sexton both play off ball and hoping Garland's shooting picks up.

Sekou isn't even playing that well in the G League. He's currently 60th in scoring among G League players.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

hes doing well his % of 60/40/83 are very promising hes averaging 17/5 in 26 min and impacting outcome defensively. but that being said Detroit always rots their rookies unless they are high iq role player types that can step in early on in ltd use. Sekou might have gone to a worse situation but not too many imo. But hes still 18 until later this month so there could be some maturity issues, im guessing not though since it sounds like hes had to grow up fast .
either way i dont know why youre so down on the idea esp given how bad garland has been compared to projections

[JonFromVA]

Sexton is struggling because he is playing next to gomer pyle not Steph Curry. Sexton may have played well off ball next to a real pg but he was better on ball when there wasn't a true pg out there with him.
His shooting % is directly related to him being completly out of rhythm and that is reflective of teammates not him.
I mean sure it would be nice if he could keep working on his shooting off the dribble like last season but he apparently has to work on being a better catch and shoot off guard nd it aint happenning

That holds for the entire team ... the entire offense is off-kilter much of the time, yet the only players shooting worse than him from 3pt on the team is a rookie struggling with his shooting form (Porter Jr), Delly (who has a busted thumb), and Henson.

And while Sexton is playing more of a shooting guard role that doesn't mean the ball isn't in his hands (he leads the team in USG% for instance) but his AST% is tied for 6th with the two Kevin's. Porter Jr's willingness to pass has been a pleasant surprise - but he actually is a shooting guard.

About the only "non-meta" reason I can come up with not to hand all of Collin's minutes to Porter Jr (who actually has SG size) is that Porter has been playing primarily against backups, but it's not surprising to hear reporters starting to suggest it. Heck, if we want to exclude ALL outside reasons, the same can be said for Clarkson who's been a more efficient scorer and a more prolific passer than either young player.

the best thing for Sexton would be somewhere that actually understands they need to utilize his speed but with the way things are going right now the org seems more interested in believing Garland is the man of the future yet he has done nothing but disappoint and couldn't be farther from derserving pt than anyone.
To me Garland has been so bad I am embarrassed I said I was good with the pick when it happened even though I probably figured deep down it was a confused front office bailing on Sexton at the 1 way too soon esp after he showed a ton of growth all season . but I am not surprised as its the same as most people on here. If his % are up hes a 2 guard, if his passing isn't great it never will be , if his teammates are bigger they deserve the spot, yet he already proved he could shoot well off the dribble, and having the ball this year most of the time is secondary in the time clock not when he is at his best catching defenses sleeping. getting him the ball late and then just standing around waiting for him to do something. these takes are really frustrating to me. Sexton has been constantly improving yet somehow he gets zero respect from people on Cavs forums for some reason. Kyrie aint walking through the door and Garland is a chump imo

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

[Revenged25]

That holds for the entire team ... the entire offense is off-kilter much of the time, yet the only players shooting worse than him from 3pt on the team is a rookie struggling with his shooting form (Porter Jr), Delly (who has a busted thumb), and Henson.

And while Sexton is playing more of a shooting guard role that doesn't mean the ball isn't in his hands (he leads the team in USG% for instance) but his AST% is tied for 6th with the two Kevin's. Porter Jr's willingness to pass has been a pleasant surprise - but he actually is a shooting guard.

About the only "non-meta" reason I can come up with not to hand all of Collin's minutes to Porter Jr (who actually has SG size) is that Porter has been playing primarily against backups, but it's not surprising to hear reporters starting to suggest it. Heck, if we want to exclude ALL outside reasons, the same can be said for Clarkson who's been a more efficient scorer and a more prolific passer than either young player.

the best thing for Sexton would be somewhere that actually understands they need to utilize his speed but with the way things are going right now the org seems more interested in believing Garland is the man of the future yet he has done nothing but disappoint and couldn't be farther from derserving pt than anyone.
To me Garland has been so bad I am embarrassed I said I was good with the pick when it happened even though I probably figured deep down it was a confused front office bailing on Sexton at the 1 way too soon esp after he showed a ton of growth all season . but I am not surprised as its the same as most people on here. If his % are up hes a 2 guard, if his passing isn't great it never will be , if his teammates are bigger they deserve the spot, yet he already proved he could shoot well off the dribble, and having the ball this year most of the time is secondary in the time clock not when he is at his best catching defenses sleeping. getting him the ball late and then just standing around waiting for him to do something. these takes are really frustrating to me. Sexton has been constantly improving yet somehow he gets zero respect from people on Cavs forums for some reason. Kyrie aint walking through the door and Garland is a chump imo

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

Not sure about the others, but if if he was in Canton and averaging 20 & 7, since he doesn't play much defense and it's Canton so he should be looking to be a distributor as well, then I would be feeling better about him as at least it's showing he can do it and would get to shake off any remaining rust and get more confidence in his skills.

[Stillwater]

That holds for the entire team ... the entire offense is off-kilter much of the time, yet the only players shooting worse than him from 3pt on the team is a rookie struggling with his shooting form (Porter Jr), Delly (who has a busted thumb), and Henson.

And while Sexton is playing more of a shooting guard role that doesn't mean the ball isn't in his hands (he leads the team in USG% for instance) but his AST% is tied for 6th with the two Kevin's. Porter Jr's willingness to pass has been a pleasant surprise - but he actually is a shooting guard.

About the only "non-meta" reason I can come up with not to hand all of Collin's minutes to Porter Jr (who actually has SG size) is that Porter has been playing primarily against backups, but it's not surprising to hear reporters starting to suggest it. Heck, if we want to exclude ALL outside reasons, the same can be said for Clarkson who's been a more efficient scorer and a more prolific passer than either young player.

the best thing for Sexton would be somewhere that actually understands they need to utilize his speed but with the way things are going right now the org seems more interested in believing Garland is the man of the future yet he has done nothing but disappoint and couldn't be farther from derserving pt than anyone.
To me Garland has been so bad I am embarrassed I said I was good with the pick when it happened even though I probably figured deep down it was a confused front office bailing on Sexton at the 1 way too soon esp after he showed a ton of growth all season . but I am not surprised as its the same as most people on here. If his % are up hes a 2 guard, if his passing isn't great it never will be , if his teammates are bigger they deserve the spot, yet he already proved he could shoot well off the dribble, and having the ball this year most of the time is secondary in the time clock not when he is at his best catching defenses sleeping. getting him the ball late and then just standing around waiting for him to do something. these takes are really frustrating to me. Sexton has been constantly improving yet somehow he gets zero respect from people on Cavs forums for some reason. Kyrie aint walking through the door and Garland is a chump imo

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

i would not feel better about garland until he is taking over games like the player they thought they were drafting which would trump at the time of the draft any potential fit issues, now that he is playing like a chump he doesnt deserve Sextons minutes at the position Sexton was better at than he is off ball and better than Garland has been on ball...now both guard spots are compromised.
i mean if you want to wait to see if garland becomes something better, fine bring him off the bench move sexton back on ball with windler at the 2 kpj at the 3 or visa versa...and see what happens.

[JonFromVA]

the best thing for Sexton would be somewhere that actually understands they need to utilize his speed but with the way things are going right now the org seems more interested in believing Garland is the man of the future yet he has done nothing but disappoint and couldn't be farther from derserving pt than anyone.
To me Garland has been so bad I am embarrassed I said I was good with the pick when it happened even though I probably figured deep down it was a confused front office bailing on Sexton at the 1 way too soon esp after he showed a ton of growth all season . but I am not surprised as its the same as most people on here. If his % are up hes a 2 guard, if his passing isn't great it never will be , if his teammates are bigger they deserve the spot, yet he already proved he could shoot well off the dribble, and having the ball this year most of the time is secondary in the time clock not when he is at his best catching defenses sleeping. getting him the ball late and then just standing around waiting for him to do something. these takes are really frustrating to me. Sexton has been constantly improving yet somehow he gets zero respect from people on Cavs forums for some reason. Kyrie aint walking through the door and Garland is a chump imo

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

Not sure about the others, but if if he was in Canton and averaging 20 & 7, since he doesn't play much defense and it's Canton so he should be looking to be a distributor as well, then I would be feeling better about him as at least it's showing he can do it and would get to shake off any remaining rust and get more confidence in his skills.

If he was stuck behind a long-term vet, I'd be glad he was getting reps and happy he was doing well and not sucking; but that's all it would mean to me. But he's not stuck behind anyone, Beilein is here to develop young talent, and we have plenty of minutes to throw around unless out of disgust we start giving those development minutes to players who aren't going to be here next year or perhaps even past the trade deadline.

[JonFromVA]

the best thing for Sexton would be somewhere that actually understands they need to utilize his speed but with the way things are going right now the org seems more interested in believing Garland is the man of the future yet he has done nothing but disappoint and couldn't be farther from derserving pt than anyone.
To me Garland has been so bad I am embarrassed I said I was good with the pick when it happened even though I probably figured deep down it was a confused front office bailing on Sexton at the 1 way too soon esp after he showed a ton of growth all season . but I am not surprised as its the same as most people on here. If his % are up hes a 2 guard, if his passing isn't great it never will be , if his teammates are bigger they deserve the spot, yet he already proved he could shoot well off the dribble, and having the ball this year most of the time is secondary in the time clock not when he is at his best catching defenses sleeping. getting him the ball late and then just standing around waiting for him to do something. these takes are really frustrating to me. Sexton has been constantly improving yet somehow he gets zero respect from people on Cavs forums for some reason. Kyrie aint walking through the door and Garland is a chump imo

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

i would not feel better about garland until he is taking over games like the player they thought they were drafting which would trump at the time of the draft any potential fit issues, now that he is playing like a chump he doesnt deserve Sextons minutes at the position Sexton was better at than he is off ball and better than Garland has been on ball...now both guard spots are compromised.
i mean if you want to wait to see if garland becomes something better, fine bring him off the bench move sexton back on ball with windler at the 2 kpj at the 3 or visa versa...and see what happens.

As you know, I think Garland is already better at creating offense for other players than Collin and because of that he should continue to get PG minutes. Garland is also a better shooter and hence more useful when he moves off the ball while Sexton is a better at attacking the rim, better finishing, terrific in transition, and better on D.

Add that all up, and Sexton is currently the better player; but he's not displaying PG skills and that's the beginning and the end of the whole problem of making him fit in the starting unit. They need to work it out, or they will have to be broken up - sooner or later.

Obviously I think Garland is likely to survive and you feel Sexton deserves to.

[Stillwater]

Sexton showed last year that if defenders in fear of his driving ability backed way off him and dared him to shoot he could knock it down, but that's not what I mean by shooting off the dribble. That's just another form of a wide open look and it's not sustainable because (good) defenses only give that up to players they feel can't knock down a 3.

Would you feel somehow better about Garland if he was playing in Canton and averaging 17 & 5 on decent efficiency?

i would not feel better about garland until he is taking over games like the player they thought they were drafting which would trump at the time of the draft any potential fit issues, now that he is playing like a chump he doesnt deserve Sextons minutes at the position Sexton was better at than he is off ball and better than Garland has been on ball...now both guard spots are compromised.
i mean if you want to wait to see if garland becomes something better, fine bring him off the bench move sexton back on ball with windler at the 2 kpj at the 3 or visa versa...and see what happens.

As you know, I think Garland is already better at creating offense for other players than Collin and because of that he should continue to get PG minutes. Garland is also a better shooter and hence more useful when he moves off the ball while Sexton is a better at attacking the rim, better finishing, terrific in transition, and better on D.

Add that all up, and Sexton is currently the better player; but he's not displaying PG skills and that's the beginning and the end of the whole problem of making him fit in the starting unit. They need to work it out, or they will have to be broken up - sooner or later.

Obviously I think Garland is likely to survive and you feel Sexton deserves to.

You certainly have more confidence in Garland than I do... I see very different things in Garlands game and suggesting he is somehow a better floor general is only really true compared to this year with Collin Sexton not being asked to give it up.
what I have seen is a spoiled little tubby rookie coming off a long recovery who used to dominate highschool defenses which we both know are a joke and for now all he can hang his hat on is being able to see the floor well while dribbling around in circles and occasionally finding an open big because defenders are stopping from being dizzy or laughing at him. the only other option he seems to have is to launch a low % shot that never is reliable and rarely the right shot.
He is currently the worst starting guard in the NBA except for maybe Cameron Reddish.
he is going to continue to play his way regardless of what Beilein wants that much is obvious, and there is no f.....g way what he is doing is what Beilein wants, but I am sure this org is pressuring Beilein to make it work anyway.
Sexton for all his refusals as a distributor is the better player period, and the only way he is getting better ditributing is moving back into a role that requires him to improve at it. If they want they can move Sexton into a JC role off the bench and move KPJ or Windler into the 2 and see if that helps Garland for awhile, but if at that point it doesn't Garland has to go, maybe even to Canton

[JonFromVA]

i would not feel better about garland until he is taking over games like the player they thought they were drafting which would trump at the time of the draft any potential fit issues, now that he is playing like a chump he doesnt deserve Sextons minutes at the position Sexton was better at than he is off ball and better than Garland has been on ball...now both guard spots are compromised.
i mean if you want to wait to see if garland becomes something better, fine bring him off the bench move sexton back on ball with windler at the 2 kpj at the 3 or visa versa...and see what happens.

As you know, I think Garland is already better at creating offense for other players than Collin and because of that he should continue to get PG minutes. Garland is also a better shooter and hence more useful when he moves off the ball while Sexton is a better at attacking the rim, better finishing, terrific in transition, and better on D.

Add that all up, and Sexton is currently the better player; but he's not displaying PG skills and that's the beginning and the end of the whole problem of making him fit in the starting unit. They need to work it out, or they will have to be broken up - sooner or later.

Obviously I think Garland is likely to survive and you feel Sexton deserves to.

You certainly have more confidence in Garland than I do... I see very different things in Garlands game and suggesting he is somehow a better floor general is only really true compared to this year with Collin Sexton not being asked to give it up.
what I have seen is a spoiled little tubby rookie coming off a long recovery who used to dominate highschool defenses which we both know are a joke and for now all he can hang his hat on is being able to see the floor well while dribbling around in circles and occasionally finding an open big because defenders are stopping from being dizzy or laughing at him. the only other option he seems to have is to launch a low % shot that never is reliable and rarely the right shot.
He is currently the worst starting guard in the NBA except for maybe Cameron Reddish.
he is going to continue to play his way regardless of what Beilein wants that much is obvious, and there is no f.....g way what he is doing is what Beilein wants, but I am sure this org is pressuring Beilein to make it work anyway.
Sexton for all his refusals as a distributor is the better player period, and the only way he is getting better ditributing is moving back into a role that requires him to improve at it. If they want they can move Sexton into a JC role off the bench and move KPJ or Windler into the 2 and see if that helps Garland for awhile, but if at that point it doesn't Garland has to go, maybe even to Canton

It's a two guard offense. Collin is free to demonstrate his better understanding of the offense any time he'd like. You know who does? Delly. That's why Knight can't get off the bench.

[Stillwater]

As you know, I think Garland is already better at creating offense for other players than Collin and because of that he should continue to get PG minutes. Garland is also a better shooter and hence more useful when he moves off the ball while Sexton is a better at attacking the rim, better finishing, terrific in transition, and better on D.

Add that all up, and Sexton is currently the better player; but he's not displaying PG skills and that's the beginning and the end of the whole problem of making him fit in the starting unit. They need to work it out, or they will have to be broken up - sooner or later.

Obviously I think Garland is likely to survive and you feel Sexton deserves to.

You certainly have more confidence in Garland than I do... I see very different things in Garlands game and suggesting he is somehow a better floor general is only really true compared to this year with Collin Sexton not being asked to give it up.
what I have seen is a spoiled little tubby rookie coming off a long recovery who used to dominate highschool defenses which we both know are a joke and for now all he can hang his hat on is being able to see the floor well while dribbling around in circles and occasionally finding an open big because defenders are stopping from being dizzy or laughing at him. the only other option he seems to have is to launch a low % shot that never is reliable and rarely the right shot.
He is currently the worst starting guard in the NBA except for maybe Cameron Reddish.
he is going to continue to play his way regardless of what Beilein wants that much is obvious, and there is no f.....g way what he is doing is what Beilein wants, but I am sure this org is pressuring Beilein to make it work anyway.
Sexton for all his refusals as a distributor is the better player period, and the only way he is getting better ditributing is moving back into a role that requires him to improve at it. If they want they can move Sexton into a JC role off the bench and move KPJ or Windler into the 2 and see if that helps Garland for awhile, but if at that point it doesn't Garland has to go, maybe even to Canton

It's a two guard offense. Collin is free to demonstrate his better understanding of the offense any time he'd like. You know who does? Delly. That's why Knight can't get off the bench.

not true... Beilein is pushing Garland to start the offense and he has failed all season as the primary initiator , whenever Garland is not in the game and Sexton is, Sexton plays better on or off ball, and that in itself is proof having your little brother(Garland )on the court because your big brother went to work on the second unit and couldn't play with you is exactly what it feels like for Sexton like he has to babysit his kid brother.
I am not continuing on this da back and forth about who deserves this or who has opportunities when Sexton has done exactly what his reduced role calls for, but has struggled with it due to the need for the lead guard next to him to actually be one. as soon as Garland is the f out of the way even if it only for awhile to force him to man up... then these past two lottery picks are both going to bust out until they get to a better run org.

[JonFromVA]

You certainly have more confidence in Garland than I do... I see very different things in Garlands game and suggesting he is somehow a better floor general is only really true compared to this year with Collin Sexton not being asked to give it up.
what I have seen is a spoiled little tubby rookie coming off a long recovery who used to dominate highschool defenses which we both know are a joke and for now all he can hang his hat on is being able to see the floor well while dribbling around in circles and occasionally finding an open big because defenders are stopping from being dizzy or laughing at him. the only other option he seems to have is to launch a low % shot that never is reliable and rarely the right shot.
He is currently the worst starting guard in the NBA except for maybe Cameron Reddish.
he is going to continue to play his way regardless of what Beilein wants that much is obvious, and there is no f.....g way what he is doing is what Beilein wants, but I am sure this org is pressuring Beilein to make it work anyway.
Sexton for all his refusals as a distributor is the better player period, and the only way he is getting better ditributing is moving back into a role that requires him to improve at it. If they want they can move Sexton into a JC role off the bench and move KPJ or Windler into the 2 and see if that helps Garland for awhile, but if at that point it doesn't Garland has to go, maybe even to Canton

It's a two guard offense. Collin is free to demonstrate his better understanding of the offense any time he'd like. You know who does? Delly. That's why Knight can't get off the bench.

not true... Beilein is pushing Garland to start the offense and he has failed all season as the primary initiator , whenever Garland is not in the game and Sexton is, Sexton plays better on or off ball, and that in itself is proof having your little brother(Garland )on the court because your big brother went to work on the second unit and couldn't play with you is exactly what it feels like for Sexton like he has to babysit his kid brother.
I am not continuing on this da back and forth about who deserves this or who has opportunities when Sexton has done exactly what his reduced role calls for, but has struggled with it due to the need for the lead guard next to him to actually be one. as soon as Garland is the f out of the way even if it only for awhile to force him to man up... then these past two lottery picks are both going to bust out until they get to a better run org.

There's really no back and forth. We're simply seeing different things going on and drawing different conclusions because of it.

Here's some causal reading, lol

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/MichiganOffense.html

Or just get the DVD, after all:

"In the DVD, Coach Tom Jicha demonstrates many more options, which are not discussed here. For example, in the "motion" set, there are three options on the first pass, nine options on the second pass, three options on the third pass, three options on the fourth pass, and five options on the fifth pass! Thus players do have freedom to read and react freely, in spite of the patterns presented above. So if you are serious about using this Michigan-style offense, be sure to get the DVDs below."

So, I'm not sure my math is right here, but 3*9*3*3*5 makes 1215 options just off the "motion" sets. Again, maybe it's simpler than that, but I think there's a reason heads are spinning.