Game 27: Cleveland Cavaliers (6-20) @ Toronto Raptors (17-8) - 7:30 PM ET

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[JonFromVA]

Toronto isn't very big in the backcourt ... there's that I guess.

[Stillwater]

would not be surprised if Love sits this one out if they are planning on trading him for real

[Jeffroxyx]

Tristen was interviewed once again talking about how "they" used to beat up the raptors every playoff season. Its time for him to realize *they" was Lebron, not Tristen.

[jbk1234]

DeRozan and Lowry have always looked for fouls and cried when they didn't get them.

Tristen was interviewed once again talking about how "they" used to beat up the raptors every playoff season. Its time for him to realize *they" was Lebron, not Tristen.

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[jbk1234]

I want Love traded for a lottery protected 1st at this point. He's too good a player to be misused this way. Let's go back to no first option on the floor and see how it goes.

Continue to play Garland off the bench and let's build the offense around Sexton and TT. If that's the plan, let everyone get a long hard look at what that looks like.

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[LivingLegend]

I want Love traded for a lottery protected 1st at this point. He's too good a player to be misused this way. Let's go back to no first option on the floor and see how it goes.

Continue to play Garland off the bench and let's build the offense around Sexton and TT. If that's the plan, let everyone get a long hard look at what that looks like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

[Stillwater]

The Cavs are not getting a 1st that is any good to justify moving love this season.
I say he stays until next summer minimum or someone offers a young slightly proven defender with offensive upside at the 3/4 . I would be trying to get Orlando to help facilitate a Love deal to a 3rd team sending Orlando a late 1st and them giving up their rights to Okeke to cle in the process.

[jbk1234]

I want Love traded for a lottery protected 1st at this point. He's too good a player to be misused this way. Let's go back to no first option on the floor and see how it goes.

Continue to play Garland off the bench and let's build the offense around Sexton and TT. If that's the plan, let everyone get a long hard look at what that looks like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

[Stillwater]

I want Love traded for a lottery protected 1st at this point. He's too good a player to be misused this way. Let's go back to no first option on the floor and see how it goes.

Continue to play Garland off the bench and let's build the offense around Sexton and TT. If that's the plan, let everyone get a long hard look at what that looks like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

right I see that too, but we are just starting to see Garland wake up now that he is on the 2nd unit without Love or Sexton and Garland is actually looking like our PG of the future.
Sexton can score at will when hes on ball, if he actually believes his teammates like Osman will knock down the corner 3 shot and it's a higher % shot than the paint attempt he is going for first because the defender shows up on time then he occasionally unloads it, but they rarely make them expecting him to shoot I guess despite him looking for them and looking to pass on the move on a as needed basis though in last 2 games with Garland not in the game He really needs to talk more on offense if he wants to be a effective leader. I think right now too many vets are talking at him instead of actually letting him try to run the offense so he just scores first because he can and that is what his teammates are expecting.

[LivingLegend]

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

right I see that too, but we are just starting to see Garland wake up now that he is on the 2nd unit without Love or Sexton and Garland is actually looking like our PG of the future.
Sexton can score at will when hes on ball, if he actually believes his teammates like Osman will knock down the corner 3 shot and it's a higher % shot than the paint attempt he is going for first because the defender shows up on time then he occasionally unloads it, but they rarely make them expecting him to shoot I guess despite him looking for them and looking to pass on the move on a as needed basis though in last 2 games with Garland not in the game He really needs to talk more on offense if he wants to be a effective leader. I think right now too many vets are talking at him instead of actually letting him try to run the offense so he just scores first because he can and that is what his teammates are expecting.

Could be, but Osman comes and goes. He started off the season strong, fell into a 5-8 game hole, came back looked great for 5 games and is now back into a hole it seems.

He needs to look for his shot more and be aggressive, right now he simply takes whats there and is wide open. It would be nice to see him go off dribble and be aggressive attacking. But hey, whatever

As far as Garland your 100% right. Its almost when he is out there with the starters he is looking to get Love/TT the ball because they are veterans and when he is playing with the 2nd unit he doesnt have the pressure to feed other players. You can tell he already has chemistry with KPJ and that is something to build on for the future.

I believe that in order for this team to grow---Garland/KPJ (maybe after all star break) should be the starters and Collin (after we trade Clarkson at deadline) should assume his role as 6th man. It might piss off Sexton but its clear the vets dont like Sexton because of his playstyle. He needs to take over that 6th man role for now into the future.

Also when you do this and have Garland-PG and Porter Jr-SG and Sexton-6th it starts to form your team of the future and still gives you size. This way going into next year the Cavs can focus on getting a 2 way SF to play alongside Garland/KPJ and a athletic rim protector to replace Love/Thompson. They are getting killed with no defense and no size. There is no way Sexton shouldnt be made the 6th man because of this alone

[Stillwater]

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

right I see that too, but we are just starting to see Garland wake up now that he is on the 2nd unit without Love or Sexton and Garland is actually looking like our PG of the future.
Sexton can score at will when hes on ball, if he actually believes his teammates like Osman will knock down the corner 3 shot and it's a higher % shot than the paint attempt he is going for first because the defender shows up on time then he occasionally unloads it, but they rarely make them expecting him to shoot I guess despite him looking for them and looking to pass on the move on a as needed basis though in last 2 games with Garland not in the game He really needs to talk more on offense if he wants to be a effective leader. I think right now too many vets are talking at him instead of actually letting him try to run the offense so he just scores first because he can and that is what his teammates are expecting.

Could be, but Osman comes and goes. He started off the season strong, fell into a 5-8 game hole, came back looked great for 5 games and is now back into a hole it seems.

He needs to look for his shot more and be aggressive, right now he simply takes whats there and is wide open. It would be nice to see him go off dribble and be aggressive attacking. But hey, whatever

As far as Garland your 100% right. Its almost when he is out there with the starters he is looking to get Love/TT the ball because they are veterans and when he is playing with the 2nd unit he doesnt have the pressure to feed other players. You can tell he already has chemistry with KPJ and that is something to build on for the future.

I believe that in order for this team to grow---Garland/KPJ (maybe after all star break) should be the starters and Collin (after we trade Clarkson at deadline) should assume his role as 6th man. It might piss off Sexton but its clear the vets dont like Sexton because of his playstyle. He needs to take over that 6th man role for now into the future.

Also when you do this and have Garland-PG and Porter Jr-SG and Sexton-6th it starts to form your team of the future and still gives you size. This way going into next year the Cavs can focus on getting a 2 way SF to play alongside Garland/KPJ and a athletic rim protector to replace Love/Thompson. They are getting killed with no defense and no size. There is no way Sexton shouldnt be made the 6th man because of this alone

I see Sexton more as the closer, the guy who as he continues to develop will be able to win games by himself, most teams don't have the luxury of having one of those that comes off the bench on a lottery team. I think he stays in the sl if Garland continues to play better with the 2nd unit, I also think Garland and Windler will make a nice combination on the 2nd unit against 2nd teams for the majority of their rookie seasons and KPJ more than Garland has earned the right to take a spot in the sl assuming JC isn't on the roster after feb.
Garland can easily become a starting pg in this league once he gets stronger we have seen his skills as a distributor recently but he still makes tons of turnovers and is a breezeway on defense compared to others.
Depending on what types of moves they make and what the timeline is really is on this rebuild I can still see plenty of scenarios where Sexton is the main ball handler on this roster despite being unwilling to pass when he thinks his shot is a higher %

[LivingLegend]

right I see that too, but we are just starting to see Garland wake up now that he is on the 2nd unit without Love or Sexton and Garland is actually looking like our PG of the future.
Sexton can score at will when hes on ball, if he actually believes his teammates like Osman will knock down the corner 3 shot and it's a higher % shot than the paint attempt he is going for first because the defender shows up on time then he occasionally unloads it, but they rarely make them expecting him to shoot I guess despite him looking for them and looking to pass on the move on a as needed basis though in last 2 games with Garland not in the game He really needs to talk more on offense if he wants to be a effective leader. I think right now too many vets are talking at him instead of actually letting him try to run the offense so he just scores first because he can and that is what his teammates are expecting.

Could be, but Osman comes and goes. He started off the season strong, fell into a 5-8 game hole, came back looked great for 5 games and is now back into a hole it seems.

He needs to look for his shot more and be aggressive, right now he simply takes whats there and is wide open. It would be nice to see him go off dribble and be aggressive attacking. But hey, whatever

As far as Garland your 100% right. Its almost when he is out there with the starters he is looking to get Love/TT the ball because they are veterans and when he is playing with the 2nd unit he doesnt have the pressure to feed other players. You can tell he already has chemistry with KPJ and that is something to build on for the future.

I believe that in order for this team to grow---Garland/KPJ (maybe after all star break) should be the starters and Collin (after we trade Clarkson at deadline) should assume his role as 6th man. It might piss off Sexton but its clear the vets dont like Sexton because of his playstyle. He needs to take over that 6th man role for now into the future.

Also when you do this and have Garland-PG and Porter Jr-SG and Sexton-6th it starts to form your team of the future and still gives you size. This way going into next year the Cavs can focus on getting a 2 way SF to play alongside Garland/KPJ and a athletic rim protector to replace Love/Thompson. They are getting killed with no defense and no size. There is no way Sexton shouldnt be made the 6th man because of this alone

I see Sexton more as the closer, the guy who as he continues to develop will be able to win games by himself, most teams don't have the luxury of having one of those that comes off the bench on a lottery team. I think he stays in the sl if Garland continues to play better with the 2nd unit, I also think Garland and Windler will make a nice combination on the 2nd unit against 2nd teams for the majority of their rookie seasons and KPJ more than Garland has earned the right to take a spot in the sl assuming JC isn't on the roster after feb.
Garland can easily become a starting pg in this league once he gets stronger we have seen his skills as a distributor recently but he still makes tons of turnovers and is a breezeway on defense compared to others.
Depending on what types of moves they make and what the timeline is really is on this rebuild I can still see plenty of scenarios where Sexton is the main ball handler on this roster despite being unwilling to pass when he thinks his shot is a higher %

Maybe but I dont know man. How I view Sexton is a guy who can provide energy and scoring but contribute little else from a defense, passing and rebounding standpoint. Hes almost in the exact same mold as Clarkson is--score first guard who doesnt have the tools to do a whole lot else. Even in that, hes a 1 dimensional scorer whose distance shooting has regressed big time.

I think we saw exactly what his best use is last night. He didnt shoot, he looked to be a slasher and pass the once he get in the lane. Almost like a poor mans John Wall. If he is told by coaches to stop shooting 3s and look to slash/create I think thats his best use and ability.

Garland has a much better, although unrefined, skillset to be a starting PG. He can create for others and has flashes of dynamic scoring. His biggest issue is rookie mistakes which will be fixed in time and his size. The best thing to do is at the deadline and in the draft next year prioritize defensive minded players so that when he does get blown by---there are 4 other guys there that can make sure its not a easy layup similar to how the Warriors built around Curry to hide his defensive woes.

Having Sexton/Garland/Love on the same floor is a defensive nightmare because Love cant cover the wing players that blow by the two undersized guards. Its a layup line for other teams. Which is also why I think the 'Blazers of the East' experiment needs to get thrown in the trash can. The Cavs dont have the long defenders behind Sexton/Garland to cover for their defensive mistakes.

So to sum it all up I think

- 1 moving Love will be addition by subtraction because he gives up 30+ points per night for his defense
- Sexton/Garland cannot share the floor together because of how big of defensive liabilities they each are
- Sexton because of his skillset is best served as a 6th man scoring energy machine
- The Cavs need to prioritize long athletic players in the draft. They can score 110 points per game but thats useless when they give up 130+ on the other end. Need more John Henson type players he is a breath of fresh air and he is the first Cavs player I have seen in a decade that can actually protect the rim and not allow consistent easy layups. More Henson types please.

[Revenged25]

right I see that too, but we are just starting to see Garland wake up now that he is on the 2nd unit without Love or Sexton and Garland is actually looking like our PG of the future.
Sexton can score at will when hes on ball, if he actually believes his teammates like Osman will knock down the corner 3 shot and it's a higher % shot than the paint attempt he is going for first because the defender shows up on time then he occasionally unloads it, but they rarely make them expecting him to shoot I guess despite him looking for them and looking to pass on the move on a as needed basis though in last 2 games with Garland not in the game He really needs to talk more on offense if he wants to be a effective leader. I think right now too many vets are talking at him instead of actually letting him try to run the offense so he just scores first because he can and that is what his teammates are expecting.

Could be, but Osman comes and goes. He started off the season strong, fell into a 5-8 game hole, came back looked great for 5 games and is now back into a hole it seems.

He needs to look for his shot more and be aggressive, right now he simply takes whats there and is wide open. It would be nice to see him go off dribble and be aggressive attacking. But hey, whatever

As far as Garland your 100% right. Its almost when he is out there with the starters he is looking to get Love/TT the ball because they are veterans and when he is playing with the 2nd unit he doesnt have the pressure to feed other players. You can tell he already has chemistry with KPJ and that is something to build on for the future.

I believe that in order for this team to grow---Garland/KPJ (maybe after all star break) should be the starters and Collin (after we trade Clarkson at deadline) should assume his role as 6th man. It might piss off Sexton but its clear the vets dont like Sexton because of his playstyle. He needs to take over that 6th man role for now into the future.

Also when you do this and have Garland-PG and Porter Jr-SG and Sexton-6th it starts to form your team of the future and still gives you size. This way going into next year the Cavs can focus on getting a 2 way SF to play alongside Garland/KPJ and a athletic rim protector to replace Love/Thompson. They are getting killed with no defense and no size. There is no way Sexton shouldnt be made the 6th man because of this alone

I see Sexton more as the closer, the guy who as he continues to develop will be able to win games by himself, most teams don't have the luxury of having one of those that comes off the bench on a lottery team. I think he stays in the sl if Garland continues to play better with the 2nd unit, I also think Garland and Windler will make a nice combination on the 2nd unit against 2nd teams for the majority of their rookie seasons and KPJ more than Garland has earned the right to take a spot in the sl assuming JC isn't on the roster after feb.
Garland can easily become a starting pg in this league once he gets stronger we have seen his skills as a distributor recently but he still makes tons of turnovers and is a breezeway on defense compared to others.
Depending on what types of moves they make and what the timeline is really is on this rebuild I can still see plenty of scenarios where Sexton is the main ball handler on this roster despite being unwilling to pass when he thinks his shot is a higher %

How would you think the two units would be split in regards to personnel? Obviously we would want to keep Garland/KPJ together, but from there where do we go?

[JonFromVA]

I want Love traded for a lottery protected 1st at this point. He's too good a player to be misused this way. Let's go back to no first option on the floor and see how it goes.

Continue to play Garland off the bench and let's build the offense around Sexton and TT. If that's the plan, let everyone get a long hard look at what that looks like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

From what I see, your first comment and last comment are strongly related to Collin's lack of floor vision. Team's are going to continue to pack the paint against us for as long as Collin keeps driving in to it and not passing out of it. Dumping the ball off to Tristan in a crowd is just as bad if not worse than firing up a contested floaters.

If we found out Collin needed contacts because he couldn't see across the floor, it wouldn't surprise me. Last season, I thought Collin was just moving too fast to see the floor, but even on his slower drives he's just missing open players that would minimally get some swing-swing action going.

[LivingLegend]

I agree, if we can get the Blazer 1st that will fall somewhere between 15-24 I think that would be great. I think I have ruled out getting a player + pick considering how bad Love has looked at times this year coupled with his almost immovable contract.

Like I mentioned in anohter thread in GB I think the Cavs mght have to sweeten the deal for a team to take Love for a legit asset in return and might have to package Clarkson along with him.

I would love if we could package Love/Clarkson to Blazers for lotto protected 1st and Nassir Little. Then package Tristan for a 2021 first rounder and boom, we would have 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next and 2 firsts the year after. I think that would be a great stockpile for this rebuild.

From Tonight:

-- Its insane how much better Garland looks when hes not on the floor with Sexton. I think they should both run their own separate units but have it even out to around 32mins each night for each.

-- Henson looks great and makes me want to draft a huge Jaxson Hayes type in the 1st next year to be the 'new age' center of the future with Garland/Sexton/KPJ/Windler

-- Love might literally hold this team back sometimes with his defense. He puts in zero effort because hes mentally checked out and lets nearly everybody on him get a free 2 points. I wonder how much better this team would get when he gets traded just from having a somewhat competent defender out there.

-- Osmans regression is unfortunate. I really thought he could blossom into a 18/5/4 type of guy but man he just cant hit a shot anymore. This team needs to go into next year with a big 2 way wing and a big athletic shot blocking Center to offset how bad the rest of this roster is defensively.

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

From what I see, your first comment and last comment are strongly related to Collin's lack of floor vision. Team's are going to continue to pack the paint against us for as long as Collin keeps driving in to it and not passing out of it. Dumping the ball off to Tristan in a crowd is just as bad if not worse than firing up a contested floaters.

If we found out Collin needed contacts because he couldn't see across the floor, it wouldn't surprise me. Last season, I thought Collin was just moving too fast to see the floor, but even on his slower drives he's just missing open players that would minimally get some swing-swing action going.

Its almost as bad as Tristan grabbing a rebound or receiving a pass down low and trying to go up through 2 defenders with a baby hook instead of passing the ball back out of the perimeter. Ive noticed that for years now when he receives the ball down low, its never coming back out. I scream at least 3x per game to pass the ball out after grabbing a rebound to a WIDE open Love/Cedi on the 3 point line and he just forces his way up through contact every. single. time.

[JonFromVA]

I agree regarding Garland. I feel like I know how Sexton running the starting unit is going to end but perhaps everyone needs to see it.

I agree regarding Henson and it's unfortunate that Love doesn't get real minutes with Nance and gets zero minutes next to the only true rim protector on the roster.

As far as Love, if he gets iced out of the offense, he's not really a plus player. He gets frustrated and his effort, not only on defense, but all around slips. Last night was another game where you could see the team fracturing on the court. What I don't think fans realize is that once Love is gone, guys like Giannis and Siakam will be guarding someone else. It's borderline insane that in his fifth year in Cleveland we still don't have a series of go to plays when the defense tilts towards him or he gets doubled. Add in a ball dominant guard who's never seen a driving lane that he didn't believe was open, and we're at where we're at. If Love is traded to place where the ball moves and he's not the primary offensive threat, he's going to look every bit like an all star.

Last I checked, Cedi is the only Cavs wing with a positive RDPM and there really isn't anyone else on the roster who is a close second. He should be a fourth or fifth option offensively who relies primarily on back door cuts when defenders get caught ball watching or fast break points. But it's hard to do that when good teams are packing the paint every night which brings me to my last point.

My biggest issue with this team is that it's pretty obvious that decent opposing teams are structuring their defenses in such a way that TT and Sexton are taking a whole bunch of shots in the lane against taller defenders. Every other time TT doesn't get the offensive rebound, which is practically every time one of them gets blocked, there's a fast break the other way. Their stat lines look okay but we get run out of the gym and I can't envision how you build a winning team around that.

From what I see, your first comment and last comment are strongly related to Collin's lack of floor vision. Team's are going to continue to pack the paint against us for as long as Collin keeps driving in to it and not passing out of it. Dumping the ball off to Tristan in a crowd is just as bad if not worse than firing up a contested floaters.

If we found out Collin needed contacts because he couldn't see across the floor, it wouldn't surprise me. Last season, I thought Collin was just moving too fast to see the floor, but even on his slower drives he's just missing open players that would minimally get some swing-swing action going.

Its almost as bad as Tristan grabbing a rebound or receiving a pass down low and trying to go up through 2 defenders with a baby hook instead of passing the ball back out of the perimeter. Ive noticed that for years now when he receives the ball down low, its never coming back out. I scream at least 3x per game to pass the ball out after grabbing a rebound to a WIDE open Love/Cedi on the 3 point line and he just forces his way up through contact every. single. time.

Almost as bad? It's a lot worse, considering their roles. Tristan does have some ability to find players out on the perimeter as does Collin. Perhaps the question is why aren't they looking for it?

Hard to score points if you don't get shots up ...

[jbk1234]

From what I see, your first comment and last comment are strongly related to Collin's lack of floor vision. Team's are going to continue to pack the paint against us for as long as Collin keeps driving in to it and not passing out of it. Dumping the ball off to Tristan in a crowd is just as bad if not worse than firing up a contested floaters.

If we found out Collin needed contacts because he couldn't see across the floor, it wouldn't surprise me. Last season, I thought Collin was just moving too fast to see the floor, but even on his slower drives he's just missing open players that would minimally get some swing-swing action going.

Its almost as bad as Tristan grabbing a rebound or receiving a pass down low and trying to go up through 2 defenders with a baby hook instead of passing the ball back out of the perimeter. Ive noticed that for years now when he receives the ball down low, its never coming back out. I scream at least 3x per game to pass the ball out after grabbing a rebound to a WIDE open Love/Cedi on the 3 point line and he just forces his way up through contact every. single. time.

Almost as bad? It's a lot worse, considering their roles. Tristan does have some ability to find players out on the perimeter as does Collin. Perhaps the question is why aren't they looking for it?

Hard to score points if you don't get shots up ...

It's not just the failure to score, it's what it leads to on the other end in terms of transition buckets. It's almost to the point where I can look at the box score, look at their FGAs, and tell you whether we got blown out against good defensive teams. It doesn't help when Love checks out mentally because he's been taken out of the offense, but it's not like there's tremendous improvement when Nance takes his place. Sexton has to shoot, and make, more three point shots to be a starter IMO. TT needs to stop stat padding in a contract year. Having both TT and him live in the painted area isn't working. Teams are off to the races after every miss.

[LivingLegend]

Its almost as bad as Tristan grabbing a rebound or receiving a pass down low and trying to go up through 2 defenders with a baby hook instead of passing the ball back out of the perimeter. Ive noticed that for years now when he receives the ball down low, its never coming back out. I scream at least 3x per game to pass the ball out after grabbing a rebound to a WIDE open Love/Cedi on the 3 point line and he just forces his way up through contact every. single. time.

Almost as bad? It's a lot worse, considering their roles. Tristan does have some ability to find players out on the perimeter as does Collin. Perhaps the question is why aren't they looking for it?

Hard to score points if you don't get shots up ...

It's not just the failure to score, it's what it leads to on the other end in terms of transition buckets. It's almost to the point where I can look at the box score, look at their FGAs, and tell you whether we got blown out against good defensive teams. It doesn't help when Love checks out mentally because he's been taken out of the offense, but it's not like there's tremendous improvement when Nance takes his place. Sexton has to shoot, and make, more three point shots to be a starter IMO. TT needs to stop stat padding in a contract year. Having both TT and him live in the painted area isn't working. Teams are off to the races after every miss.

Agreed. I almost wish the deadline can get here ASAP. Im looking forward to this team and what they can be if/when they deal Clarkson/Love/TT.

Here are 2 more things I just thought of. 1) How is Knight not playing over Delly. Delly cant score, cant shoot anymore and his defense is a far cry from what it once was. Knight at least gives you more movement and stretches defenses out a little bit more. The fact that he never even sees the floor in favor of Delly is weird.

2) Do you think PHX can take Love in a deal in exchange for Bridges? Do they have any bad contracts we can take on as incentive? I would love to see Mikel Bridges in a Cavs uniform and the Suns have been linked to Love if they think he can take that team to a new level.

[jbk1234]

Could be, but Osman comes and goes. He started off the season strong, fell into a 5-8 game hole, came back looked great for 5 games and is now back into a hole it seems.

He needs to look for his shot more and be aggressive, right now he simply takes whats there and is wide open. It would be nice to see him go off dribble and be aggressive attacking. But hey, whatever

As far as Garland your 100% right. Its almost when he is out there with the starters he is looking to get Love/TT the ball because they are veterans and when he is playing with the 2nd unit he doesnt have the pressure to feed other players. You can tell he already has chemistry with KPJ and that is something to build on for the future.

I believe that in order for this team to grow---Garland/KPJ (maybe after all star break) should be the starters and Collin (after we trade Clarkson at deadline) should assume his role as 6th man. It might piss off Sexton but its clear the vets dont like Sexton because of his playstyle. He needs to take over that 6th man role for now into the future.

Also when you do this and have Garland-PG and Porter Jr-SG and Sexton-6th it starts to form your team of the future and still gives you size. This way going into next year the Cavs can focus on getting a 2 way SF to play alongside Garland/KPJ and a athletic rim protector to replace Love/Thompson. They are getting killed with no defense and no size. There is no way Sexton shouldnt be made the 6th man because of this alone

I see Sexton more as the closer, the guy who as he continues to develop will be able to win games by himself, most teams don't have the luxury of having one of those that comes off the bench on a lottery team. I think he stays in the sl if Garland continues to play better with the 2nd unit, I also think Garland and Windler will make a nice combination on the 2nd unit against 2nd teams for the majority of their rookie seasons and KPJ more than Garland has earned the right to take a spot in the sl assuming JC isn't on the roster after feb.
Garland can easily become a starting pg in this league once he gets stronger we have seen his skills as a distributor recently but he still makes tons of turnovers and is a breezeway on defense compared to others.
Depending on what types of moves they make and what the timeline is really is on this rebuild I can still see plenty of scenarios where Sexton is the main ball handler on this roster despite being unwilling to pass when he thinks his shot is a higher %

Maybe but I dont know man. How I view Sexton is a guy who can provide energy and scoring but contribute little else from a defense, passing and rebounding standpoint. Hes almost in the exact same mold as Clarkson is--score first guard who doesnt have the tools to do a whole lot else. Even in that, hes a 1 dimensional scorer whose distance shooting has regressed big time.

I think we saw exactly what his best use is last night. He didnt shoot, he looked to be a slasher and pass the once he get in the lane. Almost like a poor mans John Wall. If he is told by coaches to stop shooting 3s and look to slash/create I think thats his best use and ability.

Garland has a much better, although unrefined, skillset to be a starting PG. He can create for others and has flashes of dynamic scoring. His biggest issue is rookie mistakes which will be fixed in time and his size. The best thing to do is at the deadline and in the draft next year prioritize defensive minded players so that when he does get blown by---there are 4 other guys there that can make sure its not a easy layup similar to how the Warriors built around Curry to hide his defensive woes.

Having Sexton/Garland/Love on the same floor is a defensive nightmare because Love cant cover the wing players that blow by the two undersized guards. Its a layup line for other teams. Which is also why I think the 'Blazers of the East' experiment needs to get thrown in the trash can. The Cavs dont have the long defenders behind Sexton/Garland to cover for their defensive mistakes.

So to sum it all up I think

- 1 moving Love will be addition by subtraction because he gives up 30+ points per night for his defense
- Sexton/Garland cannot share the floor together because of how big of defensive liabilities they each are
- Sexton because of his skillset is best served as a 6th man scoring energy machine
- The Cavs need to prioritize long athletic players in the draft. They can score 110 points per game but thats useless when they give up 130+ on the other end. Need more John Henson type players he is a breath of fresh air and he is the first Cavs player I have seen in a decade that can actually protect the rim and not allow consistent easy layups. More Henson types please.

The bolded part relies entirely too much on the eye test. We saw this last year when Love went down and our defense didn't improve at all (we've seen it every year since Love got there tbh). Love's ability to grab defensive boards matters. His ability to make our offense as a whole more efficient also impacts our defense. We have to be one of the worst defensive transition teams in the league, and when you miss a lot, that's a problem.

The only guy really providing a positive impact on defense is Henson, and Love is never in the line up with him. You're not going to start Henson and TT, so I'm not seeing a scenario where getting rid of Love is going to really improve our defense. We have one above-average wing defender and it's Cedi. Even Delly's defense is mostly overrated nostalgia where people confuse effort with efficacy. The next best wing/guard defender after Cedi is probably Clarkson. Think about that.