Game 29: Cleveland Cavaliers (7-21) vs. Memphis Grizzlies (10-18) - 7:00 PM ET

[Stillwater]

I don't see Sexton thinking he is that , but I guarantee he thinks he can become that guy or close. Garland has acknowledged at times recently his struggles but also insinuates he's not playing poorly at all so you should wonder just how arrogant this rookie is not the other one who is a sponge to get better and owns it.

[jbk1234]

I don't see Sexton thinking he is that , but I guarantee he thinks he can become that guy or close. Garland has acknowledged at times recently his struggles but also insinuates he's not playing poorly at all so you should wonder just how arrogant this rookie is not the other one who is a sponge to get better and owns it.

Garland hasn't been that bad for a 19-year old rookie who hasn't even played half a season. I mean he's playing far better away from Sexton. You're putting all that on him. Maybe it's at least partly on Sexton. Maybe they're a really bad pairing.

But the reality is Sexton needs to make sure his teammates are involved in the offense when he starts or he won't be a starter long term.

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[LivingLegend]

Both Sexton and Garland have attributes and they both have readily apparent flaws. My chief concern with Sexton is his need to be *the guy.* I'm not convinced it's a vision thing. He'd rather take a bad shot than get a teammate a good one. That can only be fixed internally. A poor man's Westbrook doesn't start on a good team.

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Problem is that both have flaws but Garlands have much more to do with consistency and I chalk that up to being a rookie. He has flashed at different times his ability to be a knock down shooter from spot up and off dribble, to be a good facilitator in the P&R and open court and ability to create for himself with the drive + finish at the rim.

Sextons flaws are far more pronounced and Im not sure they are fixable. His vision is next level bad. He is not a natural passer, his basketball IQ and decision making could use work and he cannot shoot. He is a extremely one dimentional player where the only thing he does really well is driving layups. One dimensional players usually come off the bench in a 'role'.

[JonFromVA]

Both Sexton and Garland have attributes and they both have readily apparent flaws. My chief concern with Sexton is his need to be *the guy.* I'm not convinced it's a vision thing. He'd rather take a bad shot than get a teammate a good one. That can only be fixed internally. A poor man's Westbrook doesn't start on a good team.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Problem is that both have flaws but Garlands have much more to do with consistency and I chalk that up to being a rookie. He has flashed at different times his ability to be a knock down shooter from spot up and off dribble, to be a good facilitator in the P&R and open court and ability to create for himself with the drive + finish at the rim.

Sextons flaws are far more pronounced and Im not sure they are fixable. His vision is next level bad. He is not a natural passer, his basketball IQ and decision making could use work and he cannot shoot. He is a extremely one dimentional player where the only thing he does really well is driving layups. One dimensional players usually come off the bench in a 'role'.

Its possible Collin is the kind of player who will benefit from playing within a system once he starts to grasp it and stops breaking it off. He will have to make reads to be successful but if it's drilled in to him where he should be looking maybe he'll see?

It will take time and patience to find out. We'll see if he gets it.

[jbk1234]

Both Sexton and Garland have attributes and they both have readily apparent flaws. My chief concern with Sexton is his need to be *the guy.* I'm not convinced it's a vision thing. He'd rather take a bad shot than get a teammate a good one. That can only be fixed internally. A poor man's Westbrook doesn't start on a good team.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Problem is that both have flaws but Garlands have much more to do with consistency and I chalk that up to being a rookie. He has flashed at different times his ability to be a knock down shooter from spot up and off dribble, to be a good facilitator in the P&R and open court and ability to create for himself with the drive + finish at the rim.

Sextons flaws are far more pronounced and Im not sure they are fixable. His vision is next level bad. He is not a natural passer, his basketball IQ and decision making could use work and he cannot shoot. He is a extremely one dimentional player where the only thing he does really well is driving layups. One dimensional players usually come off the bench in a 'role'.

Its possible Collin is the kind of player who will benefit from playing within a system once he starts to grasp it and stops breaking it off. He will have to make reads to be successful but if it's drilled in to him where he should be looking maybe he'll see?

It will take time and patience to find out. We'll see if he gets it.

If we don't get fair offers for TT and Love, I suspect we're approaching a cross roads on Sexton as a starter sooner rather than later. We're presently four games out of the 8th seed. We have a good record against other lottery teams. We have a relatively easy schedule for the rest of the season. If that pick is going convey, then we need to try to win as much as possible and make the playoffs. We need to develop the players we see as long-term starters with more haste than we're currently employing. The absolute worse result would be to miss the playoffs and convey a late lottery pick.

If we ride TT and Love to the playoffs, TT may have value in a S&T scenario this summer and the noise about Love declining will go away. If our young players make it to the playoffs, their trade value will be viewed differently around the league.

Windler, Nance, and Exum can provide enough spacing to allow Sexton to score 20 ppg out of that second unit. Love, KPJ, and Garland can provide enough spacing in the first unit. But continuing on a path where you consistently squeak by the bad teams but always lose to the good ones because you're making your starting unit easy to defend shouldn't be viewed as an acceptable approach. It will likely lead to conveying a late lottery pick.

[JonFromVA]

I don't care about the pick ... it's a sunk cost, I care about player development and buy in and beating the bad teams is useful to keep the players engaged in progressing.

But if you do care about the pick you should be hoping we don't make the playoffs because if we win the lottery, we'll keep it and a top-4 pick is a lot more valuable than say the 12th.

[jbk1234]

I don't care about the pick ... it's a sunk cost, I care about player development and buy in and beating the bad teams is useful to keep the players engaged in progressing.

But if you do care about the pick you should be hoping we don't make the playoffs because if we win the lottery, we'll keep it and a top-4 pick is a lot more valuable than say the 12th.

The point is that it's not a sunk cost. It will either convey, or not. We're a couple weeks away, maybe a month at the latest, where the Cavs will have to make a decision about which direction to choose. If we're going to hold onto our vets, then we should try to win as many games as possible. If they get to that point, they have to ask whether it's possible while continuing to start a guy who seems uninterested in playing within the offense they're running.

[Stillwater]

I think they are trying to win some games right now just like them featuring JC the game before he was traded . TT started the year outstanding but has regressed and their window to move him for a first is probably gone unless they go back to him heavy and ice out Love which seems unlikely at this point but they could hold Love out a game or two more and feed TT to pad his stats even on top of his norm which is good. I also think trying to get Knight some minutes should have been the priority before immediately pushing Exum into the rotation which makes me think Exum could get flipped.
I do not think this team if nobody is traded is a playoff team or even if only 1 other expiring is traded .
with the new odds nobody besides teams like CLE who are facing the loss of their pick if it's lower than 5th if they dont tank such as Memphis as well really have motivations to tank and so unless this team is that good down the stretch that they would rather they compete and forfeit the pick for sure since this draft is mostly PG's in the lottery... they are dumbshits because they could use the pick to trade down or out or whatever.

[JonFromVA]

I don't care about the pick ... it's a sunk cost, I care about player development and buy in and beating the bad teams is useful to keep the players engaged in progressing.

But if you do care about the pick you should be hoping we don't make the playoffs because if we win the lottery, we'll keep it and a top-4 pick is a lot more valuable than say the 12th.

The point is that it's not a sunk cost. It will either convey, or not. We're a couple weeks away, maybe a month at the latest, where the Cavs will have to make a decision about which direction to choose. If we're going to hold onto our vets, then we should try to win as many games as possible. If they get to that point, they have to ask whether it's possible while continuing to start a guy who seems uninterested in playing within the offense they're running.

My point is all decisions should start with what's best for developing our players, talent, and chemistry. Making the playoffs or keeping the picks should be treated as potential outcomes, not primary motivation

If a vet helps our kids develop ... keep 'em. If he's in the way, move him.

[Revenged25]

I don't care about the pick ... it's a sunk cost, I care about player development and buy in and beating the bad teams is useful to keep the players engaged in progressing.

But if you do care about the pick you should be hoping we don't make the playoffs because if we win the lottery, we'll keep it and a top-4 pick is a lot more valuable than say the 12th.

The point is that it's not a sunk cost. It will either convey, or not. We're a couple weeks away, maybe a month at the latest, where the Cavs will have to make a decision about which direction to choose. If we're going to hold onto our vets, then we should try to win as many games as possible. If they get to that point, they have to ask whether it's possible while continuing to start a guy who seems uninterested in playing within the offense they're running.

My point is all decisions should start with what's best for developing our players, talent, and chemistry. Making the playoffs or keeping the picks should be treated as potential outcomes, not primary motivation

If a vet helps our kids develop ... keep 'em. If he's in the way, move him.

I'm of the belief that we either need to make the playoffs or keep our pick and make decisions based on the likelihood of each. Making the playoffs and losing our pick would suck, but the experience both for Beilein and our young players would be worth more than a late lotto pick in that instance. Or we need to suck and hope for the best pick possible either to draft a 3-5 player or trade back for better value for one. In no instance should we put ourselves in a situation where we could potentially lose the pick and miss the playoffs.

[JonFromVA]

The point is that it's not a sunk cost. It will either convey, or not. We're a couple weeks away, maybe a month at the latest, where the Cavs will have to make a decision about which direction to choose. If we're going to hold onto our vets, then we should try to win as many games as possible. If they get to that point, they have to ask whether it's possible while continuing to start a guy who seems uninterested in playing within the offense they're running.

My point is all decisions should start with what's best for developing our players, talent, and chemistry. Making the playoffs or keeping the picks should be treated as potential outcomes, not primary motivation

If a vet helps our kids develop ... keep 'em. If he's in the way, move him.

I'm of the belief that we either need to make the playoffs or keep our pick and make decisions based on the likelihood of each. Making the playoffs and losing our pick would suck, but the experience both for Beilein and our young players would be worth more than a late lotto pick in that instance. Or we need to suck and hope for the best pick possible either to draft a 3-5 player or trade back for better value for one. In no instance should we put ourselves in a situation where we could potentially lose the pick and miss the playoffs.

I doubt these guys are ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing, but it's be cool if they play well enough to change my mind on that by the end of the regular season

We've got 3 or 4 young players to develop and will likely acquire more even if we lose our first.

The only thing that matters at this point is that these kids are learning and developing and/or we're trading them for players that will.

[jbk1234]

My point is all decisions should start with what's best for developing our players, talent, and chemistry. Making the playoffs or keeping the picks should be treated as potential outcomes, not primary motivation

If a vet helps our kids develop ... keep 'em. If he's in the way, move him.

I'm of the belief that we either need to make the playoffs or keep our pick and make decisions based on the likelihood of each. Making the playoffs and losing our pick would suck, but the experience both for Beilein and our young players would be worth more than a late lotto pick in that instance. Or we need to suck and hope for the best pick possible either to draft a 3-5 player or trade back for better value for one. In no instance should we put ourselves in a situation where we could potentially lose the pick and miss the playoffs.

I doubt these guys are ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing, but it's be cool if they play well enough to change my mind on that by the end of the regular season

We've got 3 or 4 young players to develop and will likely acquire more even if we lose our first.

The only thing that matters at this point is that these kids are learning and developing and/or we're trading them for players that will.

The bolded part is the important part. Sexton will always have value as a sixth man. He can put the ball in the hoop. But, he it's time for him to start getting that while he plays on a starting unit, he needs to do more than that.

[Revenged25]

My point is all decisions should start with what's best for developing our players, talent, and chemistry. Making the playoffs or keeping the picks should be treated as potential outcomes, not primary motivation

If a vet helps our kids develop ... keep 'em. If he's in the way, move him.

I'm of the belief that we either need to make the playoffs or keep our pick and make decisions based on the likelihood of each. Making the playoffs and losing our pick would suck, but the experience both for Beilein and our young players would be worth more than a late lotto pick in that instance. Or we need to suck and hope for the best pick possible either to draft a 3-5 player or trade back for better value for one. In no instance should we put ourselves in a situation where we could potentially lose the pick and miss the playoffs.

I doubt these guys are ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing, but it's be cool if they play well enough to change my mind on that by the end of the regular season

We've got 3 or 4 young players to develop and will likely acquire more even if we lose our first.

The only thing that matters at this point is that these kids are learning and developing and/or we're trading them for players that will.

If they aren't ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing immediately, then they will never be ready. We've been beaten badly by playoff teams and fairly consistently beaten the non-playoff teams which means this team is on the cusp of being a treadmill team at their current levels. In a playoff setting, even if it's a 4-0 sweep, guys will learn when it's worth going away from the offense vs sticking with it, they'll learn how match-ups, game plans, adjustments, etc and how it's different from the generic settings during the regular season, and the coaching staff and FO will learn a lot from who is and who isn't worth investing in based on who steps up.

I personally think losing the pick and making the playoffs is the best case scenario outside of getting Wiseman/Avdija in the top 3-5 of the draft.

[jbk1234]

I'm of the belief that we either need to make the playoffs or keep our pick and make decisions based on the likelihood of each. Making the playoffs and losing our pick would suck, but the experience both for Beilein and our young players would be worth more than a late lotto pick in that instance. Or we need to suck and hope for the best pick possible either to draft a 3-5 player or trade back for better value for one. In no instance should we put ourselves in a situation where we could potentially lose the pick and miss the playoffs.

I doubt these guys are ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing, but it's be cool if they play well enough to change my mind on that by the end of the regular season

We've got 3 or 4 young players to develop and will likely acquire more even if we lose our first.

The only thing that matters at this point is that these kids are learning and developing and/or we're trading them for players that will.

If they aren't ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing immediately, then they will never be ready. We've been beaten badly by playoff teams and fairly consistently beaten the non-playoff teams which means this team is on the cusp of being a treadmill team at their current levels. In a playoff setting, even if it's a 4-0 sweep, guys will learn when it's worth going away from the offense vs sticking with it, they'll learn how match-ups, game plans, adjustments, etc and how it's different from the generic settings during the regular season, and the coaching staff and FO will learn a lot from who is and who isn't worth investing in based on who steps up.

I personally think losing the pick and making the playoffs is the best case scenario outside of getting Wiseman/Avdija in the top 3-5 of the draft.

I think trading Love and TT for good value is the best case scenario, but, that's not something the Cavs can control. The Cavs have certainly shown they can be reasonable when it comes to trading players. If other teams aren't willing to do the same, then there's value to demonstrating they won't give away good players. I'm ready to put our heads down and try to make the playoffs if that's the case. We're resting Love against bad teams and playing him in certain losses. We're still starting TT against Brook Lopez when starting Nance would cause the Bucks problems. There's thing we could do that would make us more competitive that we're not doing.

[Revenged25]

I doubt these guys are ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing, but it's be cool if they play well enough to change my mind on that by the end of the regular season

We've got 3 or 4 young players to develop and will likely acquire more even if we lose our first.

The only thing that matters at this point is that these kids are learning and developing and/or we're trading them for players that will.

If they aren't ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing immediately, then they will never be ready. We've been beaten badly by playoff teams and fairly consistently beaten the non-playoff teams which means this team is on the cusp of being a treadmill team at their current levels. In a playoff setting, even if it's a 4-0 sweep, guys will learn when it's worth going away from the offense vs sticking with it, they'll learn how match-ups, game plans, adjustments, etc and how it's different from the generic settings during the regular season, and the coaching staff and FO will learn a lot from who is and who isn't worth investing in based on who steps up.

I personally think losing the pick and making the playoffs is the best case scenario outside of getting Wiseman/Avdija in the top 3-5 of the draft.

I think trading Love and TT for good value is the best case scenario, but, that's not something the Cavs can control. The Cavs have certainly shown they can be reasonable when it comes to trading players. If other teams aren't willing to do the same, then there's value to demonstrating they won't give away good players. I'm ready to put our heads down and try to make the playoffs if that's the case. We're resting Love against bad teams and playing him in certain losses. We're still starting TT against Brook Lopez when starting Nance would cause the Bucks problems. There's thing we could do that would make us more competitive that we're not doing.

I think part of it is also a learning curve for Beilein as well. I think that if we could get good value from TT and Love, then sure that's would likely be better than getting stomped in the 1st round of the playoffs, but barring that, I think a 1st round exit would be good for this team, and the org. It would show that our current line-up, although mostly young, is already on the cusp of taking the next step so FAs might be more wiling to come to Cleveland, especially with more approachable faces of the franchise than in the past who might've declined the opportunity to personally recruit players.

[JonFromVA]

If they aren't ready to learn anything from a playoff trouncing immediately, then they will never be ready. We've been beaten badly by playoff teams and fairly consistently beaten the non-playoff teams which means this team is on the cusp of being a treadmill team at their current levels. In a playoff setting, even if it's a 4-0 sweep, guys will learn when it's worth going away from the offense vs sticking with it, they'll learn how match-ups, game plans, adjustments, etc and how it's different from the generic settings during the regular season, and the coaching staff and FO will learn a lot from who is and who isn't worth investing in based on who steps up.

I personally think losing the pick and making the playoffs is the best case scenario outside of getting Wiseman/Avdija in the top 3-5 of the draft.

I think trading Love and TT for good value is the best case scenario, but, that's not something the Cavs can control. The Cavs have certainly shown they can be reasonable when it comes to trading players. If other teams aren't willing to do the same, then there's value to demonstrating they won't give away good players. I'm ready to put our heads down and try to make the playoffs if that's the case. We're resting Love against bad teams and playing him in certain losses. We're still starting TT against Brook Lopez when starting Nance would cause the Bucks problems. There's thing we could do that would make us more competitive that we're not doing.

I think part of it is also a learning curve for Beilein as well. I think that if we could get good value from TT and Love, then sure that's would likely be better than getting stomped in the 1st round of the playoffs, but barring that, I think a 1st round exit would be good for this team, and the org. It would show that our current line-up, although mostly young, is already on the cusp of taking the next step so FAs might be more wiling to come to Cleveland, especially with more approachable faces of the franchise than in the past who might've declined the opportunity to personally recruit players.

Even with Kevin and TT, the kids are too young and the systems being put in are too new for expectations beyond sign that they can play.

For instance some rooks finish strong as they adjust to the league and others just get worn down from playing 82 for the first time. The former outcome will make us feel better but it really doesn't mean anything for the long term.

In other words making the playoffs this year hinges on things that don't matter in the long run.

[Stillwater]

I think trading Love and TT for good value is the best case scenario, but, that's not something the Cavs can control. The Cavs have certainly shown they can be reasonable when it comes to trading players. If other teams aren't willing to do the same, then there's value to demonstrating they won't give away good players. I'm ready to put our heads down and try to make the playoffs if that's the case. We're resting Love against bad teams and playing him in certain losses. We're still starting TT against Brook Lopez when starting Nance would cause the Bucks problems. There's thing we could do that would make us more competitive that we're not doing.

I think part of it is also a learning curve for Beilein as well. I think that if we could get good value from TT and Love, then sure that's would likely be better than getting stomped in the 1st round of the playoffs, but barring that, I think a 1st round exit would be good for this team, and the org. It would show that our current line-up, although mostly young, is already on the cusp of taking the next step so FAs might be more wiling to come to Cleveland, especially with more approachable faces of the franchise than in the past who might've declined the opportunity to personally recruit players.

Even with Kevin and TT, the kids are too young and the systems being put in are too new for expectations beyond sign that they can play.

For instance some rooks finish strong as they adjust to the league and others just get worn down from playing 82 for the first time. The former outcome will make us feel better but it really doesn't mean anything for the long term.

In other words making the playoffs this year hinges on things that don't matter in the long run.

I am not at all confident this team can win more than 10 more games this season

[Revenged25]

I think part of it is also a learning curve for Beilein as well. I think that if we could get good value from TT and Love, then sure that's would likely be better than getting stomped in the 1st round of the playoffs, but barring that, I think a 1st round exit would be good for this team, and the org. It would show that our current line-up, although mostly young, is already on the cusp of taking the next step so FAs might be more wiling to come to Cleveland, especially with more approachable faces of the franchise than in the past who might've declined the opportunity to personally recruit players.

Even with Kevin and TT, the kids are too young and the systems being put in are too new for expectations beyond sign that they can play.

For instance some rooks finish strong as they adjust to the league and others just get worn down from playing 82 for the first time. The former outcome will make us feel better but it really doesn't mean anything for the long term.

In other words making the playoffs this year hinges on things that don't matter in the long run.

I am not at all confident this team can win more than 10 more games this season

They are at 10 wins already...

[Stillwater]

Even with Kevin and TT, the kids are too young and the systems being put in are too new for expectations beyond sign that they can play.

For instance some rooks finish strong as they adjust to the league and others just get worn down from playing 82 for the first time. The former outcome will make us feel better but it really doesn't mean anything for the long term.

In other words making the playoffs this year hinges on things that don't matter in the long run.

I am not at all confident this team can win more than 10 more games this season

They are at 10 wins already...

Lol 10 more g
Actually 15 more is probably a more reasonable total if noone else gets traded

[JonFromVA]

My guess was 35 if they didn't make harmful trades (Clarkson for Exum for instance has some upside if Exum doesn't immediately get hurt) and if they make some progress with what they're being taught

Given the softness of their remaining schedule it seems doable, but a lot of stuff can happen to derail progress