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Turns out our offense is a lot better when we're not playing 4 on 5. Our guards still can't defend anyone.

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KPJ's defense is atrocious. The Cavs need to really look for two-way players in the draft. I know these guys are young but we're making scrub wings look like HOF players on a nightly basis now.

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jbk1234 wrote:KPJ's defense is atrocious. The Cavs need to really look for two-way players in the draft. I know these guys are young but we're making scrub wings look like HOF players on a nightly basis now.

Ironically given all the easier pickins, the game swung on Cedi's man to man defense of Marcus Morris, and Cedi is arguably our best defender.

Payton who usually blows by Garland whenever he wants was just 1-5 in the 4th and OT.

On the bright side, not much defense is expected from 19 and 20 year olds. If you want someone who can defend his own shadow as a rookie, you're going to limit yourself to the 22 year olds in the draft like Thybull and Hunter.

But we can still target BBIQ/feel-for-the-game, length, and athleticism.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:KPJ's defense is atrocious. The Cavs need to really look for two-way players in the draft. I know these guys are young but we're making scrub wings look like HOF players on a nightly basis now.

Ironically given all the easier pickins, the game swung on Cedi's man to man defense of Marcus Morris, and Cedi is arguably our best defender.

Payton who usually blows by Garland whenever he wants was just 1-5 in the 4th and OT.

On the bright side, not much defense is expected from 19 and 20 year olds. If you want someone who can defend his own shadow as a rookie, you're going to limit yourself to the 22 year olds in the draft like Thybull and Hunter.

But we can still target BBIQ/feel-for-the-game, length, and athleticism.

It's kind of the 137 points before that last bucket that were the problem.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:KPJ's defense is atrocious. The Cavs need to really look for two-way players in the draft. I know these guys are young but we're making scrub wings look like HOF players on a nightly basis now.

Ironically given all the easier pickins, the game swung on Cedi's man to man defense of Marcus Morris, and Cedi is arguably our best defender.

Payton who usually blows by Garland whenever he wants was just 1-5 in the 4th and OT.

On the bright side, not much defense is expected from 19 and 20 year olds. If you want someone who can defend his own shadow as a rookie, you're going to limit yourself to the 22 year olds in the draft like Thybull and Hunter.

But we can still target BBIQ/feel-for-the-game, length, and athleticism.

It's kind of the 137 points before that last bucket that were the problem.

Yes, lots of culprits, but Morris closed out the game scoring 16 pts over the final 11 minutes on 5-8 shooting and 5-5 from the line.

Seems like our bench bunch hurt us the most in this one ... might have something to do with having to extend Larry's minutes. Rather than coming in fresh, he was mirroring Garland's rotation so they could both play with Exum, Porter Jr, and Henson.

Not to make too much of it, but DSJ just horsed Garland around all game. It is clear that Garland will need to become much stronger to be able to defend NBA players. I almost wonder if it is time to reduce his minutes as it looks like his confidence is really low, as evidenced by his late game ill advised long two when the team was down by three. I would think a lighter load could help with that, and it would be easy for the team to say he has hit the rookie wall to defend/defer the reason for reduced time.
As for last night, what happened to Mckinney? He clearly could have helped defensively, and Cedi, he really shouldn't be asked to guard PF's for any length of time. It's almost like JB was ok with losing last night's game. How else to explain the rotations?
On a positive, Sexton did hit some clutch shots so maybe there was some progress there.

gflem wrote:Not to make too much of it, but DSJ just horsed Garland around all game. It is clear that Garland will need to become much stronger to be able to defend NBA players. I almost wonder if it is time to reduce his minutes as it looks like his confidence is really low, as evidenced by his late game ill advised long two when the team was down by three. I would think a lighter load could help with that, and it would be easy for the team to say he has hit the rookie wall to defend/defer the reason for reduced time.
As for last night, what happened to Mckinney? He clearly could have helped defensively, and Cedi, he really shouldn't be asked to guard PF's for any length of time. It's almost like JB was ok with losing last night's game. How else to explain the rotations?
On a positive, Sexton did hit some clutch shots so maybe there was some progress there.

a lot of fans are getting disgruntled with the direction of the team myself included occasionally but I just have to remind myself they are tanking. if it doesn't make any sense at all...that is a tank move for sure

gflem wrote:Not to make too much of it, but DSJ just horsed Garland around all game. It is clear that Garland will need to become much stronger to be able to defend NBA players. I almost wonder if it is time to reduce his minutes as it looks like his confidence is really low, as evidenced by his late game ill advised long two when the team was down by three. I would think a lighter load could help with that, and it would be easy for the team to say he has hit the rookie wall to defend/defer the reason for reduced time.
As for last night, what happened to Mckinney? He clearly could have helped defensively, and Cedi, he really shouldn't be asked to guard PF's for any length of time. It's almost like JB was ok with losing last night's game. How else to explain the rotations?
On a positive, Sexton did hit some clutch shots so maybe there was some progress there.

Interesting point about McKinney, according to the box score he might not had even been activated for the game. Wade, Bolden, Knight, and Mooney were all DNP-CD's, though.

As for Cedi .vs. Morris ... Morris came in to league as a SF and has played a lot of PF, but he's listed at 6-8 235. If Cedi wasn't going to guard Morris, he would have had to either deal with Portis (6-10 246) or Randle (6-8 250).

Cedi by comparison is 6-7 215, which would be great for a SG, but on the small end of SF's. McKinnie measurements are actually identical to Cedi's.

One of these days maybe Beilein will actually play Dean Wade ... (6-9 228).

I don't think they want to sit Darius down - they're happy with the L's; but I can see him missing more back to backs. They just need to be careful not to overwork him. A healthy off-season will be crucial to his development when he can try to improve his strength.

Until then all he can do is watch tape and try to learn. Just learning the other players in the league and how they play is important.

JonFromVA wrote:

gflem wrote:Not to make too much of it, but DSJ just horsed Garland around all game. It is clear that Garland will need to become much stronger to be able to defend NBA players. I almost wonder if it is time to reduce his minutes as it looks like his confidence is really low, as evidenced by his late game ill advised long two when the team was down by three. I would think a lighter load could help with that, and it would be easy for the team to say he has hit the rookie wall to defend/defer the reason for reduced time.
As for last night, what happened to Mckinney? He clearly could have helped defensively, and Cedi, he really shouldn't be asked to guard PF's for any length of time. It's almost like JB was ok with losing last night's game. How else to explain the rotations?
On a positive, Sexton did hit some clutch shots so maybe there was some progress there.

Interesting point about McKinney, according to the box score he might not had even been activated for the game. Wade, Bolden, Knight, and Mooney were all DNP-CD's, though.

As for Cedi .vs. Morris ... Morris came in to league as a SF and has played a lot of PF, but he's listed at 6-8 235. If Cedi wasn't going to guard Morris, he would have had to either deal with Portis (6-10 246) or Randle (6-8 250).

Cedi by comparison is 6-7 215, which would be great for a SG, but on the small end of SF's. McKinnie measurements are actually identical to Cedi's.

One of these days maybe Beilein will actually play Dean Wade ... (6-9 228).

I don't think they want to sit Darius down - they're happy with the L's; but I can see him missing more back to backs. They just need to be careful not to overwork him. A healthy off-season will be crucial to his development when he can try to improve his strength.

Until then all he can do is watch tape and try to learn. Just learning the other players in the league and how they play is important.

trying to remain optimistic about Garland long term is great, but I think it's fairly clear his "game" is going to require him to be a lot more physical to match the leagues intensity not just trimmed around the ears. I am not sure he has what it takes as an athlete to compete with Sexton for the gig despite most myself included acknowledging Garland has the better feel at the position for the time being. I have said it till blue in the face, but the fact is anyone can develop a better feel for the game which is what Sexton is doing, not everyone can develop elite speed and motor which Garland has neither of and Sexton has is spades

Stillwater wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

gflem wrote:Not to make too much of it, but DSJ just horsed Garland around all game. It is clear that Garland will need to become much stronger to be able to defend NBA players. I almost wonder if it is time to reduce his minutes as it looks like his confidence is really low, as evidenced by his late game ill advised long two when the team was down by three. I would think a lighter load could help with that, and it would be easy for the team to say he has hit the rookie wall to defend/defer the reason for reduced time.
As for last night, what happened to Mckinney? He clearly could have helped defensively, and Cedi, he really shouldn't be asked to guard PF's for any length of time. It's almost like JB was ok with losing last night's game. How else to explain the rotations?
On a positive, Sexton did hit some clutch shots so maybe there was some progress there.

Interesting point about McKinney, according to the box score he might not had even been activated for the game. Wade, Bolden, Knight, and Mooney were all DNP-CD's, though.

As for Cedi .vs. Morris ... Morris came in to league as a SF and has played a lot of PF, but he's listed at 6-8 235. If Cedi wasn't going to guard Morris, he would have had to either deal with Portis (6-10 246) or Randle (6-8 250).

Cedi by comparison is 6-7 215, which would be great for a SG, but on the small end of SF's. McKinnie measurements are actually identical to Cedi's.

One of these days maybe Beilein will actually play Dean Wade ... (6-9 228).

I don't think they want to sit Darius down - they're happy with the L's; but I can see him missing more back to backs. They just need to be careful not to overwork him. A healthy off-season will be crucial to his development when he can try to improve his strength.

Until then all he can do is watch tape and try to learn. Just learning the other players in the league and how they play is important.

trying to remain optimistic about Garland long term is great, but I think it's fairly clear his "game" is going to require him to be a lot more physical to match the leagues intensity not just trimmed around the ears. I am not sure he has what it takes as an athlete to compete with Sexton for the gig despite most myself included acknowledging Garland has the better feel at the position for the time being. I have said it till blue in the face, but the fact is anyone can develop a better feel for the game which is what Sexton is doing, not everyone can develop elite speed and motor which Garland has neither of and Sexton has is spades

I don't find it hard to remain optimistic about Darius or Collin, but nothing is going to tell us what they are going to do in the future.

We're just going to have to wait and see.