ImageImageImage

If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan

Moderator: jbk1234

who is the coach after the break?

Beilein
2
25%
JBB
5
63%
other
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#61 » by jbk1234 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:03 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#62 » by JonFromVA » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:20 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I mean if it was true that JBB was in charge of the line ups and it never changed what does that tell you is going to happen on friday or any game to come?
He had a track record of benching young players in Memphis and he lost that gig so does that mean he is now the overplay the kids coach...lol or is he just another pawn who had nothing to do with the line up and will now start rolling out Exum Delly McKinnie Nance and Love in the starting Line up with Sexton and Osman off the bench and DG,KPJ and other young end of bench players in dire need of reps riding the pine to close the season because they suck?
I have no **** clue what they are doing, but I know they have been tanking all season, are they now? dont know what to think anymore


I don't think they can hard tank with Drummond *unless* their goal is to get him to surrender his option. The primary goal of keeping their own pick has all but been achieved, the question now is whether they feel they need to lock in a top-2 losing record to try to stay in the top-6 of the draft (in case multiple teams skip ahead of them).

With the trade deadline past, their priorities could shift somewhat; but they still have to deal with Love. Either find a way to make him happy and re-engaged ... or try to somehow convince another team he has positive value. Maybe both ...

For those reasons, I'm thinking we're entering a soft-tank stage. Stay tuned in case we start winning too much, though.

10 games are against non playoff teams I don't expect to win half of them even without tanking unless the other team is tanking it out but wouldn't be surprised if they have another 3 good games against the comfortable into the playoffs teams that are resting stars down the stretch and maybe get those wins . I projected 10 more wins before the trade and the resignation while tanking now I'm projecting 8 while jbb is trying to win with vets if that's what happens lol.
Entire org is a joke to the media and people in CLE are soon to be completely tuned out.
Wouldn't be surprised if Gilbert eventually sells out or moves to a different city.


I assume that's how you're feeling, right?

New season, new hope. That's how it always goes in Cleveland sports.
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#63 » by JonFromVA » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:29 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Isn't this common courtesy in any professional situation?

Of course that doesn't mean players shouldn't have a chance to speak, contribute, and help out in practice; but IMO this is just another example of the media gathering all their little anecdotes in an attempt to pile-on.

I mean ... journalism? please? How about even one quote from a player who says he felt there was a hostile environment or that the coach squashed any attempt he made a contribution? How about asking a player why nobody questioned Beilein about the "thugs" comment at the time of the meeting?

Were they tuned out? Did they not care? Did they not feel they could speak up?
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#64 » by jbk1234 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:38 pm

Most of this makes me wonder whether the Cavs as an organization understand what it takes to develop a Spurs type atmosphere and the trade offs that have to be made. I can see vets who have been in the league a while bristling at being told to shut up, excessive practice, and/or going over fundamentals in their 10th season. If you're bringing in a coach who is going to run a tight ship, then you might have to trade vets for less than you want in order to trade them sooner. At a minimum, the G.M. needs to have a more hands on approach to let the new coach understand that guys who have been in the league for the eight years don't need long film sessions or practices mid-season.

The other thing the Spurs would never do is force prospects into starting roles before they were ready. The Spurs are more than willing to to take years with young guys coming in behind competent starters. They'll even use the G League. Minutes are earned. But you have to have a balanced roster in order to pull that off and that necessarily means not trading cap space for guys like Drummond and Knight (even if a pick is attached).

What concerns me most is how disjointed and discombobulated the approach is. Don't hire Beilein unless you're going to put him in a position to succeed. Understand what that entails. Don't seek a maximum return for your vets if you're going to let the young guys run wild. Don't sign Love to that contract if you're going full tank. Have a roster where you have vets capable of starting in front of young guys. It's like the guy who has one foot in a bucket of ice water, one foot in a bucket of boiling water, and thinks the temperature is fine.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,627
And1: 2,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#65 » by Stillwater » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I don't think they can hard tank with Drummond *unless* their goal is to get him to surrender his option. The primary goal of keeping their own pick has all but been achieved, the question now is whether they feel they need to lock in a top-2 losing record to try to stay in the top-6 of the draft (in case multiple teams skip ahead of them).

With the trade deadline past, their priorities could shift somewhat; but they still have to deal with Love. Either find a way to make him happy and re-engaged ... or try to somehow convince another team he has positive value. Maybe both ...

For those reasons, I'm thinking we're entering a soft-tank stage. Stay tuned in case we start winning too much, though.

10 games are against non playoff teams I don't expect to win half of them even without tanking unless the other team is tanking it out but wouldn't be surprised if they have another 3 good games against the comfortable into the playoffs teams that are resting stars down the stretch and maybe get those wins . I projected 10 more wins before the trade and the resignation while tanking now I'm projecting 8 while jbb is trying to win with vets if that's what happens lol.
Entire org is a joke to the media and people in CLE are soon to be completely tuned out.
Wouldn't be surprised if Gilbert eventually sells out or moves to a different city.


The taxpayers just spent a ton of money rehabbing Rocket Arena. The Cavs are locked into their lease until 2034. We're stuck with them and they're stuck with us for the next 14 years.

Yeah maybe the Cavs can sell the lease to Hockey team ... hell Disney on Ice 2 times a week when the Cavs are not in the building is going to bring in more revenue than a less than half full arena to watch them suck for the next 3 seasons.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#66 » by jbk1234 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:22 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:10 games are against non playoff teams I don't expect to win half of them even without tanking unless the other team is tanking it out but wouldn't be surprised if they have another 3 good games against the comfortable into the playoffs teams that are resting stars down the stretch and maybe get those wins . I projected 10 more wins before the trade and the resignation while tanking now I'm projecting 8 while jbb is trying to win with vets if that's what happens lol.
Entire org is a joke to the media and people in CLE are soon to be completely tuned out.
Wouldn't be surprised if Gilbert eventually sells out or moves to a different city.


The taxpayers just spent a ton of money rehabbing Rocket Arena. The Cavs are locked into their lease until 2034. We're stuck with them and they're stuck with us for the next 14 years.

Yeah maybe the Cavs can sell the lease to Hockey team ... hell Disney on Ice 2 times a week when the Cavs are not in the building is going to bring in more revenue than a less than half full arena to watch them suck for the next 3 seasons.


The reason the City of Cleveland still has the Browns is because Modell broke the lease with the stadium when he moved the team. The NFL intervened and worked out a settlement. But it's not as simple as moving a team when you have a lease, especially when the taxpayers have just gone in debt giving the arena a multi-million face lift. There would be a lawsuit if Gilbert tried to move the team and he's shown no interest in doing it.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#67 » by JonFromVA » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:31 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Most of this makes me wonder whether the Cavs as an organization understand what it takes to develop a Spurs type atmosphere and the trade offs that have to be made. I can see vets who have been in the league a while bristling at being told to shut up, excessive practice, and/or going over fundamentals in their 10th season. If you're bringing in a coach who is going to run a tight ship, then you might have to trade vets for less than you want in order to trade them sooner. At a minimum, the G.M. needs to have a more hands on approach to let the new coach understand that guys who have been in the league for the eight years don't need long film sessions or practices mid-season.

The other thing the Spurs would never do is force prospects into starting roles before they were ready. The Spurs are more than willing to to take years with young guys coming in behind competent starters. They'll even use the G League. Minutes are earned. But you have to have a balanced roster in order to pull that off and that necessarily means not trading cap space for guys like Drummond and Knight (even if a pick is attached).

What concerns me most is how disjointed and discombobulated the approach is. Don't hire Beilein unless you're going to put him in a position to succeed. Understand what that entails. Don't seek a maximum return for your vets if you're going to let the young guys run wild. Don't sign Love to that contract if you're going full tank. Have a roster where you have vets capable of starting in front of young guys. It's like the guy who has one foot in a bucket of ice water, one foot in a bucket of boiling water, and thinks the temperature is fine.


Kind of all gets back to Dan Gilbert's refusal to hire people who've proven they know what they're doing at the NBA level and empower them to do it let alone keep the ones he does bring along. He's always wanted a collaborative environment where the best ideas are taken, but that's not the same thing as a vision.

I mean, Steve Jobs of Apple for instance threw away a lot of great ideas because his vision was to create an easy to use product. So, for instance the original Mac had just one mouse button because as convenient as it would be to have two (or more), someone looking at it for the first time would wonder ... "Which one do I click?".
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#68 » by jbk1234 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:14 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Most of this makes me wonder whether the Cavs as an organization understand what it takes to develop a Spurs type atmosphere and the trade offs that have to be made. I can see vets who have been in the league a while bristling at being told to shut up, excessive practice, and/or going over fundamentals in their 10th season. If you're bringing in a coach who is going to run a tight ship, then you might have to trade vets for less than you want in order to trade them sooner. At a minimum, the G.M. needs to have a more hands on approach to let the new coach understand that guys who have been in the league for the eight years don't need long film sessions or practices mid-season.

The other thing the Spurs would never do is force prospects into starting roles before they were ready. The Spurs are more than willing to to take years with young guys coming in behind competent starters. They'll even use the G League. Minutes are earned. But you have to have a balanced roster in order to pull that off and that necessarily means not trading cap space for guys like Drummond and Knight (even if a pick is attached).

What concerns me most is how disjointed and discombobulated the approach is. Don't hire Beilein unless you're going to put him in a position to succeed. Understand what that entails. Don't seek a maximum return for your vets if you're going to let the young guys run wild. Don't sign Love to that contract if you're going full tank. Have a roster where you have vets capable of starting in front of young guys. It's like the guy who has one foot in a bucket of ice water, one foot in a bucket of boiling water, and thinks the temperature is fine.


Kind of all gets back to Dan Gilbert's refusal to hire people who've proven they know what they're doing at the NBA level and empower them to do it let alone keep the ones he does bring along. He's always wanted a collaborative environment where the best ideas are taken, but that's not the same thing as a vision.

I mean, Steve Jobs of Apple for instance threw away a lot of great ideas because his vision was to create an easy to use product. So, for instance the original Mac had just one mouse button because as convenient as it would be to have two (or more), someone looking at it for the first time would wonder ... "Which one do I click?".


The current approach strikes me as the equivalent of options trading. The Cavs weren't going to do better than Love with $30M in cap space. Garland was the best value pick. The Drummond trade was a win on paper. But these moves don't translate to dollars in a bank account. If you can't find a way to capture that value, you're not accomplishing anything.

In fairness, it's way too early to write off Garland. Love is still a net positive on the court and the Cavs should be able to recoup some of his value this summer or next. So long as they don't extend Drummond's contract, that trade could still return value. But there's been an opportunity cost associated with some of these moves and they've done a poor job to date of minimizing it.

Garland did not have to start and should've gone to the bench early on. The Sexton situation should never have been allowed to deteriorate to the point where Love publicly lost his ****. Renting Drummond for cheap for a year means Exum is the only vet guard on the roster for next season. They should spend their MLE bringing in a second one.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,627
And1: 2,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#69 » by Stillwater » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:37 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Most of this makes me wonder whether the Cavs as an organization understand what it takes to develop a Spurs type atmosphere and the trade offs that have to be made. I can see vets who have been in the league a while bristling at being told to shut up, excessive practice, and/or going over fundamentals in their 10th season. If you're bringing in a coach who is going to run a tight ship, then you might have to trade vets for less than you want in order to trade them sooner. At a minimum, the G.M. needs to have a more hands on approach to let the new coach understand that guys who have been in the league for the eight years don't need long film sessions or practices mid-season.

The other thing the Spurs would never do is force prospects into starting roles before they were ready. The Spurs are more than willing to to take years with young guys coming in behind competent starters. They'll even use the G League. Minutes are earned. But you have to have a balanced roster in order to pull that off and that necessarily means not trading cap space for guys like Drummond and Knight (even if a pick is attached).

What concerns me most is how disjointed and discombobulated the approach is. Don't hire Beilein unless you're going to put him in a position to succeed. Understand what that entails. Don't seek a maximum return for your vets if you're going to let the young guys run wild. Don't sign Love to that contract if you're going full tank. Have a roster where you have vets capable of starting in front of young guys. It's like the guy who has one foot in a bucket of ice water, one foot in a bucket of boiling water, and thinks the temperature is fine.


Kind of all gets back to Dan Gilbert's refusal to hire people who've proven they know what they're doing at the NBA level and empower them to do it let alone keep the ones he does bring along. He's always wanted a collaborative environment where the best ideas are taken, but that's not the same thing as a vision.

I mean, Steve Jobs of Apple for instance threw away a lot of great ideas because his vision was to create an easy to use product. So, for instance the original Mac had just one mouse button because as convenient as it would be to have two (or more), someone looking at it for the first time would wonder ... "Which one do I click?".


The current approach strikes me as the equivalent of options trading. The Cavs weren't going to do better than Love with $30M in cap space. Garland was the best value pick. The Drummond trade was a win on paper. But these moves don't translate to dollars in a bank account. If you can't find a way to capture that value, you're not accomplishing anything.

In fairness, it's way too early to write off Garland. Love is still a net positive on the court and the Cavs should be able to recoup some of his value this summer or next. So long as they don't extend Drummond's contract, that trade could still return value. But there's been an opportunity cost associated with some of these moves and they've done a poor job to date of minimizing it.

Garland did not have to start and should've gone to the bench early on. The Sexton situation should never have been allowed to deteriorate to the point where Love publicly lost his ****. Renting Drummond for cheap for a year means Exum is the only vet guard on the roster for next season. They should spend their MLE bringing in a second one.

Dude they mother **** want him to score first pass second he is not the **** pg...& Love certainly has had reasons to complain about Sexton taking the 1st option duties and not giving it up when he had no shot or Love was the mismatch, but that one particular scene you keep referring too where Sexton was dribbling out the clock and Love went bonkers towards Sexton was nothing more than an animated over reaction to the play call by Beilein that both Love and Beilein implied afterwards was Sexton doing what he was instructed standing right next to Beilein when it happened.
Love getting mad at the call and taking it out on Sexton listening to the coach instead of his disgruntled teammate is a Love problem with Beilein and a Beilein problem with trying to hard to control outcomes...not a Sexton problem unless you think Sexton should just ignore everything the coaching staff is saying to appease the angry vets around him who have no future here.
This org has a lot to do to fix the problems with immaturity by its vets and I would guess the rooks and 2nds year players given their personalities are far less likely to be the same types of crybabies Love TT and others no longer on the roster were all season.
But until they are gone aint nothing going to go well
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#70 » by jbk1234 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:55 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Kind of all gets back to Dan Gilbert's refusal to hire people who've proven they know what they're doing at the NBA level and empower them to do it let alone keep the ones he does bring along. He's always wanted a collaborative environment where the best ideas are taken, but that's not the same thing as a vision.

I mean, Steve Jobs of Apple for instance threw away a lot of great ideas because his vision was to create an easy to use product. So, for instance the original Mac had just one mouse button because as convenient as it would be to have two (or more), someone looking at it for the first time would wonder ... "Which one do I click?".


The current approach strikes me as the equivalent of options trading. The Cavs weren't going to do better than Love with $30M in cap space. Garland was the best value pick. The Drummond trade was a win on paper. But these moves don't translate to dollars in a bank account. If you can't find a way to capture that value, you're not accomplishing anything.

In fairness, it's way too early to write off Garland. Love is still a net positive on the court and the Cavs should be able to recoup some of his value this summer or next. So long as they don't extend Drummond's contract, that trade could still return value. But there's been an opportunity cost associated with some of these moves and they've done a poor job to date of minimizing it.

Garland did not have to start and should've gone to the bench early on. The Sexton situation should never have been allowed to deteriorate to the point where Love publicly lost his ****. Renting Drummond for cheap for a year means Exum is the only vet guard on the roster for next season. They should spend their MLE bringing in a second one.

Dude they mother **** want him to score first pass second he is not the **** pg...& Love certainly has had reasons to complain about Sexton taking the 1st option duties and not giving it up when he had no shot or Love was the mismatch, but that one particular scene you keep referring too where Sexton was dribbling out the clock and Love went bonkers towards Sexton was nothing more than an animated over reaction to the play call by Beilein that both Love and Beilein implied afterwards was Sexton doing what he was instructed standing right next to Beilein when it happened.
Love getting mad at the call and taking it out on Sexton listening to the coach instead of his disgruntled teammate is a Love problem with Beilein and a Beilein problem with trying to hard to control outcomes...not a Sexton problem unless you think Sexton should just ignore everything the coaching staff is saying to appease the angry vets around him who have no future here.
This org has a lot to do to fix the problems with immaturity by its vets and I would guess the rooks and 2nds year players given their personalities are far less likely to be the same types of crybabies Love TT and others no longer on the roster were all season.
But until they are gone aint nothing going to go well


That play was the straw that broke the camel's back. Two weeks into the season, Beilein publicly shrugged off the concerns about Sexton taking more shots than Love. The body language leading up to the OKC game had been bad for weeks, if not months. Love physically hit the bench before that and was kicked out of the game. Love was fined by Altman for saying the team had no feel for the game. Meanwhile, the Cavs are getting run out of gym as all of this is going on. Sexton needed an intervention and didn't get one. That's not just my opinion but one voiced by Jim Chones and Brad Daughtery over the course of many, many games. You can paper over selfish play with a score first label if you're winning, or at least in games, but why you think that Sexton should've been allowed to continue to play that way, for as long as he did, is beyond me.

It seems that if the Cavs wanted Sexton to play that way, someone would've walked up to the microphone and said it by now. You wouldn't have to keep going back to the a single end-of-quarter example, where Beilein said he wanted Sexton to "slow it down" to get the last shot, as your data point supporting the idea they want him to play selfishly.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#71 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:25 am

Let's just say it's a mess, huh, guys?

I mean Kevin Love might be the best player on the team if he actually gave a (insert expletive here).

The good news in my book is that JBB says he's going to take a look at what we got, then use the rest of the season to experiment and try out different ideas and combinations. If he was serious about some of his examples, it should be pretty funny (KPJ at PG, TT and AD playing together), but even pure comedy is better than trotting out the same starting unit and watching them stink up the joint.
JJ_PR
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,463
And1: 1,071
Joined: Mar 19, 2015
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#72 » by JJ_PR » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:10 am

It'll be interesting to see how this team plays under a new head coach. Bickerstaff has plenty of experience in the coaching ranks, but is still just 40 years old. To say that he's an upgrade over Beilein isn't far fetched.

That being said, I want us to keep the pick. This draft is stacked. This team will undoubtedly be better with the coaching change, but the tank must continue at least for this year.
Sean Marks (Nets GM) "There are no shortcuts. Strategic thinking wins."

Bologna Smasher wrote:I'd rather go with the team full of kings than the team with just one.

February 12, 2019.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,627
And1: 2,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#73 » by Stillwater » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:55 am

JJ_PR wrote:It'll be interesting to see how this team plays under a new head coach. Bickerstaff has plenty of experience in the coaching ranks, but is still just 40 years old. To say that he's an upgrade over Beilein isn't far fetched.

That being said, I want us to keep the pick. This draft is stacked. This team will undoubtedly be better with the coaching change, but the tank must continue at least for this year.

They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#74 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:38 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JJ_PR wrote:It'll be interesting to see how this team plays under a new head coach. Bickerstaff has plenty of experience in the coaching ranks, but is still just 40 years old. To say that he's an upgrade over Beilein isn't far fetched.

That being said, I want us to keep the pick. This draft is stacked. This team will undoubtedly be better with the coaching change, but the tank must continue at least for this year.

They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse


If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,627
And1: 2,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#75 » by Stillwater » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:46 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JJ_PR wrote:It'll be interesting to see how this team plays under a new head coach. Bickerstaff has plenty of experience in the coaching ranks, but is still just 40 years old. To say that he's an upgrade over Beilein isn't far fetched.

That being said, I want us to keep the pick. This draft is stacked. This team will undoubtedly be better with the coaching change, but the tank must continue at least for this year.

They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse


If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.

The plan is the only reason he took the job because it would have meant he was taking over once the raw kids were becoming solid vets. That is not what is happening here. He has no clue how or desire to be the HC of a raw team in need of a development focused leader.instead he is the pretender and that's what he will make them because he cannot be the coach of anyone who actually needs coaching like half the roster.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#76 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:58 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse


If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.

The plan is the only reason he took the job because it would have meant he was taking over once the raw kids were becoming solid vets. That is not what is happening here. He has no clue how or desire to be the HC of a raw team in need of a development focused leader.instead he is the pretender and that's what he will make them because he cannot be the coach of anyone who actually needs coaching like half the roster.


We still have the same assistants we hired to help Beilein with player development: Lang, Gerriot, Gotleib, Gerrity, etc, and of course an entire department dedicated to it ... and if KobeDan were able to twist Beilein's arm to play the kids no matter what, I doubt JBB will be able to convince them of anything different.

So, maybe it just comes down to whether he lets his staff do their job? Or if he goes another way, like cancels practices the rest of the year so the vets can get their beauty rest (unlikely, lol).
Stillwater
RealGM
Posts: 11,627
And1: 2,900
Joined: Jun 15, 2017
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#77 » by Stillwater » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:11 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.

The plan is the only reason he took the job because it would have meant he was taking over once the raw kids were becoming solid vets. That is not what is happening here. He has no clue how or desire to be the HC of a raw team in need of a development focused leader.instead he is the pretender and that's what he will make them because he cannot be the coach of anyone who actually needs coaching like half the roster.


We still have the same assistants we hired to help Beilein with player development: Lang, Gerriot, Gotleib, Gerrity, etc, and of course an entire department dedicated to it ... and if KobeDan were able to twist Beilein's arm to play the kids no matter what, I doubt JBB will be able to convince them of anything different.

So, maybe it just comes down to whether he lets his staff do their job? Or if he goes another way, like cancels practices the rest of the year so the vets can get their beauty rest (unlikely, lol).

My take is he will do exactly what the vets expect a typical tank command coach to do which is let other personel work on individual player development instead of team development ,he might even help someone away from the team but the clear message from these NBA players is if ain't catered to the individual it's not worth listening too.
Beilein tried to develop them as a team he failed because they all had to be on board and only the young hungry ones would listen. Now the kids are going to suffer because the only resemblance of team development will be whatever they take away from watching someone else
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
JonFromVA
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,876
And1: 1,874
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#78 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:25 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:The plan is the only reason he took the job because it would have meant he was taking over once the raw kids were becoming solid vets. That is not what is happening here. He has no clue how or desire to be the HC of a raw team in need of a development focused leader.instead he is the pretender and that's what he will make them because he cannot be the coach of anyone who actually needs coaching like half the roster.


We still have the same assistants we hired to help Beilein with player development: Lang, Gerriot, Gotleib, Gerrity, etc, and of course an entire department dedicated to it ... and if KobeDan were able to twist Beilein's arm to play the kids no matter what, I doubt JBB will be able to convince them of anything different.

So, maybe it just comes down to whether he lets his staff do their job? Or if he goes another way, like cancels practices the rest of the year so the vets can get their beauty rest (unlikely, lol).

My take is he will do exactly what the vets expect a typical tank command coach to do which is let other personel work on individual player development instead of team development ,he might even help someone away from the team but the clear message from these NBA players is if ain't catered to the individual it's not worth listening too.
Beilein tried to develop them as a team he failed because they all had to be on board and only the young hungry ones would listen. Now the kids are going to suffer because the only resemblance of team development will be whatever they take away from watching someone else


Well, I do believe JBB was in charge of the defense this year and we've seen how far that's come.

So point taken, but better effort and some more gradual tweaks may help push things along.

Beilein wanted to redo everything from the ground up and that's what the players refused to deal with.

JBB will let them get comfortable running stuff they're familiar with and then he'll have a chance to put his imprint on the team. Maybe he's learned something from his previous stints as a coach, maybe not. Suppose we'll see ...
Revenged25
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,451
And1: 474
Joined: Jun 05, 2018
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#79 » by Revenged25 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:38 pm

So just putting on the tinfoil hat because why not, let me ask this question. If JBB was in charge of the rotations etc and they were obviously a huge point of contention for several vets, is there any possibility that JBB was also in players ears to force an early exit for Beilein so he could take over the job sooner? Obviously I think it's farfetched at best, but seems like now that Beilein is gone the person that was in charge of rotations etc all of a sudden has decided to shake it up... timing seems a little tinfoily...
jbk1234
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 37,877
And1: 21,763
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
   

Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#80 » by jbk1234 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:54 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JJ_PR wrote:It'll be interesting to see how this team plays under a new head coach. Bickerstaff has plenty of experience in the coaching ranks, but is still just 40 years old. To say that he's an upgrade over Beilein isn't far fetched.

That being said, I want us to keep the pick. This draft is stacked. This team will undoubtedly be better with the coaching change, but the tank must continue at least for this year.

They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse


If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.


If the Cavs don't land a franchise player in the next draft, it's difficult to see either Bickerstaff or Altman surviving next season. It's going to be really difficult for us to *win* a S&T with using TT's Bird Rights. I can't imagine us retaining him and Drummond. Maybe we can trade Love but his value isn't going to peak until the summer of 2021 after the blue chip F.A.s have all signed already. Do we get a middling first and far worse player for Love this summer? Hard to see how that would help.

They basically need to draft an NBA-ready cornerstone prospect, as well all kinds of internal growth from Sexton, Garland, and KPJ, for this team to be significantly better. I'm deeply skeptical of the latter because I just don't see evidence that they understand how to best develop young guys.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers