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If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan

Moderator: jbk1234

who is the coach after the break?

Beilein
2
25%
JBB
5
63%
other
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

JonFromVA
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Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#81 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:43 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:They are not losing the pick and unless they get fd by the lottery process again will be in the top 4 which is good because with the lack of tier 2 prospects and no tier 1 other than maybe Wiseman or Ramsey they will need that pick to be high.
Jbb is not a good coach he is just a filler and the easy way out but since he's on board with players league bs you won't hear much bad about him other than that they still suck and him taking over and mixing up line ups will be his exuse


If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.


If the Cavs don't land a franchise player in the next draft, it's difficult to see either Bickerstaff or Altman surviving next season. It's going to be really difficult for us to *win* a S&T with using TT's Bird Rights. I can't imagine us retaining him and Drummond. Maybe we can trade Love but his value isn't going to peak until the summer of 2021 after the blue chip F.A.s have all signed already. Do we get a middling first and far worse player for Love this summer? Hard to see how that would help.

They basically need to draft an NBA-ready cornerstone prospect, as well all kinds of internal growth from Sexton, Garland, and KPJ, for this team to be significantly better. I'm deeply skeptical of the latter because I just don't see evidence that they understand how to best develop young guys.


Given we just pushed the reset button on our latest plan to develop players and build a new culture, "deeply skeptical" is putting it lightly, but young players usually do improve regardless of how mismanaged the team may be. It's just that the odds are increasing that it'll be another team that ends up benefiting from that development.

fwiw, I don't think we need a "franchise guy" to improve drastically, but the pieces do need to fit together in ways they currently do not. That kind of tweaking can be done via the draft and/or trades, but it does require the FO having a clue what will work and what they need. JBB's willingness to experiment is at least a path towards figuring out what we've got and how it does or does not fit together, but there's only so much you can do when the FO is focused on tanking.

I mean, right or wrong, Beilein was pretty happy with what Clarkson was bringing the team. I can even point to some of the 5-man units featuring him and say ... look at that, they actually played well. And then *poof* he's gone because ... ummm he was playing too well? We really wanted to take on more money for next year? Because somebody was in love with Exum? Because we're going to turn that future second round pick in to the next Lebron?!?

We need to stop that crap. Move on from players who we don't want here, and start building. How long in to the rebuild is that going to take?
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Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#82 » by jbk1234 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:13 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If JBB doesn't last, the only way I could see Altman keeping his job is if nobody else will take it. JBB was their succession plan, just on an accelerated schedule.


If the Cavs don't land a franchise player in the next draft, it's difficult to see either Bickerstaff or Altman surviving next season. It's going to be really difficult for us to *win* a S&T with using TT's Bird Rights. I can't imagine us retaining him and Drummond. Maybe we can trade Love but his value isn't going to peak until the summer of 2021 after the blue chip F.A.s have all signed already. Do we get a middling first and far worse player for Love this summer? Hard to see how that would help.

They basically need to draft an NBA-ready cornerstone prospect, as well all kinds of internal growth from Sexton, Garland, and KPJ, for this team to be significantly better. I'm deeply skeptical of the latter because I just don't see evidence that they understand how to best develop young guys.


Given we just pushed the reset button on our latest plan to develop players and build a new culture, "deeply skeptical" is putting it lightly, but young players usually do improve regardless of how mismanaged the team may be. It's just that the odds are increasing that it'll be another team that ends up benefiting from that development.

fwiw, I don't think we need a "franchise guy" to improve drastically, but the pieces do need to fit together in ways they currently do not. That kind of tweaking can be done via the draft and/or trades, but it does require the FO having a clue what will work and what they need. JBB's willingness to experiment is at least a path towards figuring out what we've got and how it does or does not fit together, but there's only so much you can do when the FO is focused on tanking.

I mean, right or wrong, Beilein was pretty happy with what Clarkson was bringing the team. I can even point to some of the 5-man units featuring him and say ... look at that, they actually played well. And then *poof* he's gone because ... ummm he was playing too well? We really wanted to take on more money for next year? Because somebody was in love with Exum? Because we're going to turn that future second round pick in to the next Lebron?!?

We need to stop that crap. Move on from players who we don't want here, and start building. How long in to the rebuild is that going to take?


I didn't have a problem moving Clarkson because I think it was going to be expensive to retain him and his attributes/flaws overlap a great deal with Sextons and KPJ's. I think having a guy like Exum on the roster is actually a good move. Exum many not prove good enough in the long run, but the more veteran guards the Cavs can get who can run an offense, pass and/or defend their positions, the better IMO.

My chief concern is the front court. Any talk of Drummond and TT in the same rotation is absolutely bonkers IMO. I'll be fine so long as we don't extend Drummond this summer. Let's get all the bad ideas out of our system in the last third of this season.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#83 » by Stillwater » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:09 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If the Cavs don't land a franchise player in the next draft, it's difficult to see either Bickerstaff or Altman surviving next season. It's going to be really difficult for us to *win* a S&T with using TT's Bird Rights. I can't imagine us retaining him and Drummond. Maybe we can trade Love but his value isn't going to peak until the summer of 2021 after the blue chip F.A.s have all signed already. Do we get a middling first and far worse player for Love this summer? Hard to see how that would help.

They basically need to draft an NBA-ready cornerstone prospect, as well all kinds of internal growth from Sexton, Garland, and KPJ, for this team to be significantly better. I'm deeply skeptical of the latter because I just don't see evidence that they understand how to best develop young guys.


Given we just pushed the reset button on our latest plan to develop players and build a new culture, "deeply skeptical" is putting it lightly, but young players usually do improve regardless of how mismanaged the team may be. It's just that the odds are increasing that it'll be another team that ends up benefiting from that development.

fwiw, I don't think we need a "franchise guy" to improve drastically, but the pieces do need to fit together in ways they currently do not. That kind of tweaking can be done via the draft and/or trades, but it does require the FO having a clue what will work and what they need. JBB's willingness to experiment is at least a path towards figuring out what we've got and how it does or does not fit together, but there's only so much you can do when the FO is focused on tanking.

I mean, right or wrong, Beilein was pretty happy with what Clarkson was bringing the team. I can even point to some of the 5-man units featuring him and say ... look at that, they actually played well. And then *poof* he's gone because ... ummm he was playing too well? We really wanted to take on more money for next year? Because somebody was in love with Exum? Because we're going to turn that future second round pick in to the next Lebron?!?

We need to stop that crap. Move on from players who we don't want here, and start building. How long in to the rebuild is that going to take?


I didn't have a problem moving Clarkson because I think it was going to be expensive to retain him and his attributes/flaws overlap a great deal with Sextons and KPJ's. I think having a guy like Exum on the roster is actually a good move. Exum many not prove good enough in the long run, but the more veteran guards the Cavs can get who can run an offense, pass and/or defend their positions, the better IMO.

My chief concern is the front court. Any talk of Drummond and TT in the same rotation is absolutely bonkers IMO. I'll be fine so long as we don't extend Drummond this summer. Let's get all the bad ideas out of our system in the last third of this season.

When Clarkson switched to Klutch you knew he'd push his way out.
At least they got something for him.
They will definitely play drum and TT at times and it won't say anything positive with that lack of spacing
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: If Beilein is out who's in and what does it say about plan 

Post#84 » by JonFromVA » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:53 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If the Cavs don't land a franchise player in the next draft, it's difficult to see either Bickerstaff or Altman surviving next season. It's going to be really difficult for us to *win* a S&T with using TT's Bird Rights. I can't imagine us retaining him and Drummond. Maybe we can trade Love but his value isn't going to peak until the summer of 2021 after the blue chip F.A.s have all signed already. Do we get a middling first and far worse player for Love this summer? Hard to see how that would help.

They basically need to draft an NBA-ready cornerstone prospect, as well all kinds of internal growth from Sexton, Garland, and KPJ, for this team to be significantly better. I'm deeply skeptical of the latter because I just don't see evidence that they understand how to best develop young guys.


Given we just pushed the reset button on our latest plan to develop players and build a new culture, "deeply skeptical" is putting it lightly, but young players usually do improve regardless of how mismanaged the team may be. It's just that the odds are increasing that it'll be another team that ends up benefiting from that development.

fwiw, I don't think we need a "franchise guy" to improve drastically, but the pieces do need to fit together in ways they currently do not. That kind of tweaking can be done via the draft and/or trades, but it does require the FO having a clue what will work and what they need. JBB's willingness to experiment is at least a path towards figuring out what we've got and how it does or does not fit together, but there's only so much you can do when the FO is focused on tanking.

I mean, right or wrong, Beilein was pretty happy with what Clarkson was bringing the team. I can even point to some of the 5-man units featuring him and say ... look at that, they actually played well. And then *poof* he's gone because ... ummm he was playing too well? We really wanted to take on more money for next year? Because somebody was in love with Exum? Because we're going to turn that future second round pick in to the next Lebron?!?

We need to stop that crap. Move on from players who we don't want here, and start building. How long in to the rebuild is that going to take?


I didn't have a problem moving Clarkson because I think it was going to be expensive to retain him and his attributes/flaws overlap a great deal with Sextons and KPJ's. I think having a guy like Exum on the roster is actually a good move. Exum many not prove good enough in the long run, but the more veteran guards the Cavs can get who can run an offense, pass and/or defend their positions, the better IMO.

My chief concern is the front court. Any talk of Drummond and TT in the same rotation is absolutely bonkers IMO. I'll be fine so long as we don't extend Drummond this summer. Let's get all the bad ideas out of our system in the last third of this season.


Point is, you're going to find it hard to walk if you keep shooting yourself in the foot.

We need to start building with good ideas, and hopefully that'll happen just as soon as our draft pick isn't at risk of going to another team.

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