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draft target

Moderator: jbk1234

who will be the Cavs top target in the draft ? who is next ? vote for 2

Edwards
4
13%
Wiseman
3
10%
Okongwu
6
20%
Okoro
1
3%
Ball
3
10%
Hayes
1
3%
Avdija
6
20%
Vassell
2
7%
Toppin
4
13%
others
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 30

Revenged25
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Re: draft target 

Post#41 » by Revenged25 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 3:50 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I think that the target for this draft is going to be defense. all 4 picks the past 2 years have been offensive minded players with the intention of trying to improve their defense. I think this year the targets will be defense first and if we need to improve their offense so be it, with the one exception being Deni who I think is just such a unique blend of skills that he has low key star potential though at minimum going to be a Batum type player who is still very good to have. I personally like Deni > Okoro = Vassell at #5 then look to get a mid-late 1st for a guy like Jaden McDaniels who has the tools to be a good defender able to switch from 2-4 but would need some work, maybe even a year or 2 in the G-League to help him develop and get maximum minutes instead of scraps playing behind whoever is at SF and Love.

You might be right about Avdija being a higher value target because of IQ aka playmaking ability if in fact they believe he can be that without an outside shot or explosive finishing ability at they next level. I dont think they would value him that high for only that reason so there would have to be something else they are intrigued by like maybe his shot making ability is something they think they can develop...so his playmaking would open up idk.
I just think outside of Big 0's elite 2 way floor with his easy to develop negatives like just getting stronger overall and stretching his mid range shot some or Wisemans raw but unteachable size and frame there has to be some real interest in a prospect like Achiuwa in a trade down or even at 5 potentially over some of these more polished options. He is legit the only real athletic 3-4 prospect in this draft and its our biggest issue.
I do think better floor options outside of the on ball guards that will be there are limited to Vassell high floor and decent upside as well as maybe some other sleeper like Ramseyan elite shooter who could develop into a starting 2 guard or Okoros high floor defensively but really troublesome outside shot for a 2-3 offensive prospect.
Not many options there that can defend the 4 or 5 full time where Achiwu can and should be able to handle most guards with his athleticism so the only issue is developing his offensive chops and improving his shot and his high motor will be impactful from day 1.


I think your concerns about Avdija's shot are a little overblown. If you look at his numbers from the FIBA games they were pretty good. I don't think he's one of those guys that can come off the bench and just start knocking down 3's consistently like some role players. He needs to be in the game, feeling the flow, probably knocking down some midrange shots etc to get locked in. Also I like Okongwu's floor and ceiling, but I still think he's more of a shot blocking capable TT than anything else and that's not something I'd spend a 5th pick on if I had to choose, though I wouldn't be upset with it if that is the pick. I do like the idea of trading back as well, lots of different options available in later picks but I don't think there would be the value for it.
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Re: draft target 

Post#42 » by Stillwater » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:33 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:I think that the target for this draft is going to be defense. all 4 picks the past 2 years have been offensive minded players with the intention of trying to improve their defense. I think this year the targets will be defense first and if we need to improve their offense so be it, with the one exception being Deni who I think is just such a unique blend of skills that he has low key star potential though at minimum going to be a Batum type player who is still very good to have. I personally like Deni > Okoro = Vassell at #5 then look to get a mid-late 1st for a guy like Jaden McDaniels who has the tools to be a good defender able to switch from 2-4 but would need some work, maybe even a year or 2 in the G-League to help him develop and get maximum minutes instead of scraps playing behind whoever is at SF and Love.

You might be right about Avdija being a higher value target because of IQ aka playmaking ability if in fact they believe he can be that without an outside shot or explosive finishing ability at they next level. I dont think they would value him that high for only that reason so there would have to be something else they are intrigued by like maybe his shot making ability is something they think they can develop...so his playmaking would open up idk.
I just think outside of Big 0's elite 2 way floor with his easy to develop negatives like just getting stronger overall and stretching his mid range shot some or Wisemans raw but unteachable size and frame there has to be some real interest in a prospect like Achiuwa in a trade down or even at 5 potentially over some of these more polished options. He is legit the only real athletic 3-4 prospect in this draft and its our biggest issue.
I do think better floor options outside of the on ball guards that will be there are limited to Vassell high floor and decent upside as well as maybe some other sleeper like Ramseyan elite shooter who could develop into a starting 2 guard or Okoros high floor defensively but really troublesome outside shot for a 2-3 offensive prospect.
Not many options there that can defend the 4 or 5 full time where Achiwu can and should be able to handle most guards with his athleticism so the only issue is developing his offensive chops and improving his shot and his high motor will be impactful from day 1.


I think your concerns about Avdija's shot are a little overblown. If you look at his numbers from the FIBA games they were pretty good. I don't think he's one of those guys that can come off the bench and just start knocking down 3's consistently like some role players. He needs to be in the game, feeling the flow, probably knocking down some midrange shots etc to get locked in. Also I like Okongwu's floor and ceiling, but I still think he's more of a shot blocking capable TT than anything else and that's not something I'd spend a 5th pick on if I had to choose, though I wouldn't be upset with it if that is the pick. I do like the idea of trading back as well, lots of different options available in later picks but I don't think there would be the value for it.

Im not counting stats I am watching his shot selection his shooting touch and his movement.
He seems mechanical and easy to read on his passes he also seems overvalued in general as a NBA level athlete. I know he has decent head height but a 6 10 ws isnt that great when combined with meh athleticism so he should struggle to defend any position full time in the NBA where he cant stay in front of guards and he cant elevate against athletic forwards etc.
regarding your Okongwu comment, Okongwu is by all standards nothing like TT as a nba prospect except that they both are mobile enough to defend the perimiter and both are explosive. Okongwu has a much more advanced offensive arsenol than TT had coming in and pretty much night and day level of defensive IQ coming in. TT was pretty raw really and yeah Okongwu and TT defensively now that TT has been in the league so long is about the same except one of them has a lot less mileage and a lot more upside.
I would think a prospect coming into the league who doesnt need years of development is well worth the 5th pick esp considering he can focus on improving his outside shot and passing with everything else already engrained in his arsenol.
Avdija could devlop his outside shot and become a elite passer and front court playmaker so he may very well be worth it to the Cavs at 5, but if he doesnt become all of those things I would rather have somebody who is at least elite at one thing which Okongwu already is.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
Revenged25
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Re: draft target 

Post#43 » by Revenged25 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:40 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:You might be right about Avdija being a higher value target because of IQ aka playmaking ability if in fact they believe he can be that without an outside shot or explosive finishing ability at they next level. I dont think they would value him that high for only that reason so there would have to be something else they are intrigued by like maybe his shot making ability is something they think they can develop...so his playmaking would open up idk.
I just think outside of Big 0's elite 2 way floor with his easy to develop negatives like just getting stronger overall and stretching his mid range shot some or Wisemans raw but unteachable size and frame there has to be some real interest in a prospect like Achiuwa in a trade down or even at 5 potentially over some of these more polished options. He is legit the only real athletic 3-4 prospect in this draft and its our biggest issue.
I do think better floor options outside of the on ball guards that will be there are limited to Vassell high floor and decent upside as well as maybe some other sleeper like Ramseyan elite shooter who could develop into a starting 2 guard or Okoros high floor defensively but really troublesome outside shot for a 2-3 offensive prospect.
Not many options there that can defend the 4 or 5 full time where Achiwu can and should be able to handle most guards with his athleticism so the only issue is developing his offensive chops and improving his shot and his high motor will be impactful from day 1.


I think your concerns about Avdija's shot are a little overblown. If you look at his numbers from the FIBA games they were pretty good. I don't think he's one of those guys that can come off the bench and just start knocking down 3's consistently like some role players. He needs to be in the game, feeling the flow, probably knocking down some midrange shots etc to get locked in. Also I like Okongwu's floor and ceiling, but I still think he's more of a shot blocking capable TT than anything else and that's not something I'd spend a 5th pick on if I had to choose, though I wouldn't be upset with it if that is the pick. I do like the idea of trading back as well, lots of different options available in later picks but I don't think there would be the value for it.

Im not counting stats I am watching his shot selection his shooting touch and his movement.
He seems mechanical and easy to read on his passes he also seems overvalued in general as a NBA level athlete. I know he has decent head height but a 6 10 ws isnt that great when combined with meh athleticism so he should struggle to defend any position full time in the NBA where he cant stay in front of guards and he cant elevate against athletic forwards etc.
regarding your Okongwu comment, Okongwu is by all standards nothing like TT as a nba prospect except that they both are mobile enough to defend the perimiter and both are explosive. Okongwu has a much more advanced offensive arsenol than TT had coming in and pretty much night and day level of defensive IQ coming in. TT was pretty raw really and yeah Okongwu and TT defensively now that TT has been in the league so long is about the same except one of them has a lot less mileage and a lot more upside.
I would think a prospect coming into the league who doesnt need years of development is well worth the 5th pick esp considering he can focus on improving his outside shot and passing with everything else already engrained in his arsenol.
Avdija could devlop his outside shot and become a elite passer and front court playmaker so he may very well be worth it to the Cavs at 5, but if he doesnt become all of those things I would rather have somebody who is at least elite at one thing which Okongwu already is.


Sorry if I wasn't clear, I did mean a prime TT, not a prospect TT which we can all agree was just about his raw potential as a player. I do really like Okongwu and think he would be a great player for the Cavs as well, I just prefer Deni who I still think you are off on your take, as well as Okoro who has just as much defensive capability as Okongwu but if he hits his offensive ceiling by developing his shot a much much higher ceiling and would help round out the roster much better than Okongwu.
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Re: draft target 

Post#44 » by Stillwater » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:43 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
I think your concerns about Avdija's shot are a little overblown. If you look at his numbers from the FIBA games they were pretty good. I don't think he's one of those guys that can come off the bench and just start knocking down 3's consistently like some role players. He needs to be in the game, feeling the flow, probably knocking down some midrange shots etc to get locked in. Also I like Okongwu's floor and ceiling, but I still think he's more of a shot blocking capable TT than anything else and that's not something I'd spend a 5th pick on if I had to choose, though I wouldn't be upset with it if that is the pick. I do like the idea of trading back as well, lots of different options available in later picks but I don't think there would be the value for it.

Im not counting stats I am watching his shot selection his shooting touch and his movement.
He seems mechanical and easy to read on his passes he also seems overvalued in general as a NBA level athlete. I know he has decent head height but a 6 10 ws isnt that great when combined with meh athleticism so he should struggle to defend any position full time in the NBA where he cant stay in front of guards and he cant elevate against athletic forwards etc.
regarding your Okongwu comment, Okongwu is by all standards nothing like TT as a nba prospect except that they both are mobile enough to defend the perimiter and both are explosive. Okongwu has a much more advanced offensive arsenol than TT had coming in and pretty much night and day level of defensive IQ coming in. TT was pretty raw really and yeah Okongwu and TT defensively now that TT has been in the league so long is about the same except one of them has a lot less mileage and a lot more upside.
I would think a prospect coming into the league who doesnt need years of development is well worth the 5th pick esp considering he can focus on improving his outside shot and passing with everything else already engrained in his arsenol.
Avdija could devlop his outside shot and become a elite passer and front court playmaker so he may very well be worth it to the Cavs at 5, but if he doesnt become all of those things I would rather have somebody who is at least elite at one thing which Okongwu already is.


Sorry if I wasn't clear, I did mean a prime TT, not a prospect TT which we can all agree was just about his raw potential as a player. I do really like Okongwu and think he would be a great player for the Cavs as well, I just prefer Deni who I still think you are off on your take, as well as Okoro who has just as much defensive capability as Okongwu but if he hits his offensive ceiling by developing his shot a much much higher ceiling and would help round out the roster much better than Okongwu.

odds are pretty damn good Okongwu is gone before 5th anyway
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
Revenged25
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Posts: 1,666
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Joined: Jun 05, 2018
   

Re: draft target 

Post#45 » by Revenged25 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:46 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Im not counting stats I am watching his shot selection his shooting touch and his movement.
He seems mechanical and easy to read on his passes he also seems overvalued in general as a NBA level athlete. I know he has decent head height but a 6 10 ws isnt that great when combined with meh athleticism so he should struggle to defend any position full time in the NBA where he cant stay in front of guards and he cant elevate against athletic forwards etc.
regarding your Okongwu comment, Okongwu is by all standards nothing like TT as a nba prospect except that they both are mobile enough to defend the perimiter and both are explosive. Okongwu has a much more advanced offensive arsenol than TT had coming in and pretty much night and day level of defensive IQ coming in. TT was pretty raw really and yeah Okongwu and TT defensively now that TT has been in the league so long is about the same except one of them has a lot less mileage and a lot more upside.
I would think a prospect coming into the league who doesnt need years of development is well worth the 5th pick esp considering he can focus on improving his outside shot and passing with everything else already engrained in his arsenol.
Avdija could devlop his outside shot and become a elite passer and front court playmaker so he may very well be worth it to the Cavs at 5, but if he doesnt become all of those things I would rather have somebody who is at least elite at one thing which Okongwu already is.


Sorry if I wasn't clear, I did mean a prime TT, not a prospect TT which we can all agree was just about his raw potential as a player. I do really like Okongwu and think he would be a great player for the Cavs as well, I just prefer Deni who I still think you are off on your take, as well as Okoro who has just as much defensive capability as Okongwu but if he hits his offensive ceiling by developing his shot a much much higher ceiling and would help round out the roster much better than Okongwu.

odds are pretty damn good Okongwu is gone before 5th anyway


I'm not sure about that. Edwards/Wiseman/Ball seem like a pretty much lock for the top 3, though Charlotte might decide to take Okongwu at #3 instead of Ball, but at that point they'd be better off trading back with someone that wants Ball. Maybe something that let's Chicago and Charlotte swap picks, Chicago gets Ball, Charlotte gets Okongwu. Then we get Avdija so all is right in the world.
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Re: draft target 

Post#46 » by Stillwater » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:07 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I did mean a prime TT, not a prospect TT which we can all agree was just about his raw potential as a player. I do really like Okongwu and think he would be a great player for the Cavs as well, I just prefer Deni who I still think you are off on your take, as well as Okoro who has just as much defensive capability as Okongwu but if he hits his offensive ceiling by developing his shot a much much higher ceiling and would help round out the roster much better than Okongwu.

odds are pretty damn good Okongwu is gone before 5th anyway


I'm not sure about that. Edwards/Wiseman/Ball seem like a pretty much lock for the top 3, though Charlotte might decide to take Okongwu at #3 instead of Ball, but at that point they'd be better off trading back with someone that wants Ball. Maybe something that let's Chicago and Charlotte swap picks, Chicago gets Ball, Charlotte gets Okongwu. Then we get Avdija so all is right in the world.

all 4 teams before CLE are big O fits: But yeah those 3 seem like top 5 locks
I doubt they would take him at 1 but O is a perfect fit next to KAT , GSW would have O very high on their board given their needs are few and he could play in the system there easily day 1. CHA needs a pg more imo and a upgrade center would be secondary unless they really are hitching their wagon to the unexpected season Graham had but he is in play some there. CHI will probably go bpa as they really dont have any glaring holes and O could easily be just that if available at 4.
I just dont think the top 4 will remain set with current orgs.
MINN already could be shopping the 1 , you know GSW is and tbh I would not be surprised if CHA or CHI traded out or down.
These prospects for the most part are all about the same level where all you are doing is picking for fit to some degree
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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