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Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason

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JJ_PR
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Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#1 » by JJ_PR » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:35 pm

Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason:

- Draft James Wiseman.

- Trade Darius Garland on draft night for the rights to Precious Achiuwa.

- Trade the '21 Bucks first on draft night for the rights to Saddiq Bey.

- Buy a second round pick and draft Ty-Shon Alexander.

TRADE DEADLINE

- Trade Andre Drummond and Dante Exum for bad contracts and first round picks.

PG: Collin Sexton | Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr. | Ty-Shon Alexander
SF: Saddiq Bey | Cedi Osman | Dylan Windler
PF: Precious Achiuwa | Kevin Love | Larry Nance Jr. | Alfonso McKinnie
C: James Wiseman | Andre Drummond | Ante Zizic | Jordan Bell
Coach: J. B. Bickerstaff
Sean Marks (Nets GM) "There are no shortcuts. Strategic thinking wins."

Bologna Smasher wrote:I'd rather go with the team full of kings than the team with just one.

February 12, 2019.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 pm

JJ_PR wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason:

- Draft James Wiseman.

- Trade Darius Garland on draft night for the rights to Precious Achiuwa.

- Trade the '21 Bucks first on draft night for the rights to Saddiq Bey.

- Buy a second round pick and draft Ty-Shon Alexander.

TRADE DEADLINE

- Trade Andre Drummond and Dante Exum for bad contracts and first round picks.

PG: Collin Sexton | Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr. | Ty-Shon Alexander
SF: Saddiq Bey | Cedi Osman | Dylan Windler
PF: Precious Achiuwa | Kevin Love | Larry Nance Jr. | Alfonso McKinnie
C: James Wiseman | Andre Drummond | Ante Zizic | Jordan Bell
Coach: J. B. Bickerstaff

There are a lot of prospects I like better than Achiuwa and Bey.
They both could fill roles on this roster Bey with his shooting and Achiuwa with his hustle rebounding...but neither are the type of elite ceiling defenders this roster needs.
Okongwu is already a better defender and better athlete is space in your face and more explosive in the paint than Wiseman so even if you believe in Wisemans upside he probably will be over picked if he is never more than as is rim runner with exceptional length to alter shots at the rim and not much else.

I honestly think the "dream" offseason would be to trade Exum and eat sim longer salary for a 21 1st from a playoff team .
Let Garland develop and see what they have. Maybe he can be a 6th man type. If someone offers real value during this draft then sure, but the odds of that are slim as hell given his slow and unpromising start.
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where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#3 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 3, 2020 7:25 pm

JJ_PR wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason:

- Draft James Wiseman.

- Trade Darius Garland on draft night for the rights to Precious Achiuwa.

- Trade the '21 Bucks first on draft night for the rights to Saddiq Bey.

- Buy a second round pick and draft Ty-Shon Alexander.

TRADE DEADLINE

- Trade Andre Drummond and Dante Exum for bad contracts and first round picks.

PG: Collin Sexton | Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr. | Ty-Shon Alexander
SF: Saddiq Bey | Cedi Osman | Dylan Windler
PF: Precious Achiuwa | Kevin Love | Larry Nance Jr. | Alfonso McKinnie
C: James Wiseman | Andre Drummond | Ante Zizic | Jordan Bell
Coach: J. B. Bickerstaff


Going all-in on what's considered a bad draft as well as giving up on a #5 pick from last year that simply wasn't ready for the league seems dubious. Could you explain what you like about the player's you selected and how they would compliment Sexton?
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#4 » by JJ_PR » Mon Aug 3, 2020 8:08 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JJ_PR wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason:

- Draft James Wiseman.

- Trade Darius Garland on draft night for the rights to Precious Achiuwa.

- Trade the '21 Bucks first on draft night for the rights to Saddiq Bey.

- Buy a second round pick and draft Ty-Shon Alexander.

TRADE DEADLINE

- Trade Andre Drummond and Dante Exum for bad contracts and first round picks.

PG: Collin Sexton | Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr. | Ty-Shon Alexander
SF: Saddiq Bey | Cedi Osman | Dylan Windler
PF: Precious Achiuwa | Kevin Love | Larry Nance Jr. | Alfonso McKinnie
C: James Wiseman | Andre Drummond | Ante Zizic | Jordan Bell
Coach: J. B. Bickerstaff


Going all-in on what's considered a bad draft as well as giving up on a #5 pick from last year that simply wasn't ready for the league seems dubious. Could you explain what you like about the player's you selected and how they would compliment Sexton?

I'll try my best. Wiseman gives us a low post threat that we solely need. He gives Sexton a great pick & roll partner. Achiuwa is a tantalizing prospect. He brings versatility on the defensive end. He'd be a great frontcourt partner to Wiseman. His shooting was coming along nicely. He's a great fit next to Sexton. Bey is an athletic 3&D small forward. I think he complements Sexton better than Osman. He can also create for himself. Alexander is a combo guard. He'd be a nice spark plug off our bench.
Sean Marks (Nets GM) "There are no shortcuts. Strategic thinking wins."

Bologna Smasher wrote:I'd rather go with the team full of kings than the team with just one.

February 12, 2019.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#5 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 3, 2020 10:05 pm

JJ_PR wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JJ_PR wrote:Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason:

- Draft James Wiseman.

- Trade Darius Garland on draft night for the rights to Precious Achiuwa.

- Trade the '21 Bucks first on draft night for the rights to Saddiq Bey.

- Buy a second round pick and draft Ty-Shon Alexander.

TRADE DEADLINE

- Trade Andre Drummond and Dante Exum for bad contracts and first round picks.

PG: Collin Sexton | Dante Exum
SG: Kevin Porter Jr. | Ty-Shon Alexander
SF: Saddiq Bey | Cedi Osman | Dylan Windler
PF: Precious Achiuwa | Kevin Love | Larry Nance Jr. | Alfonso McKinnie
C: James Wiseman | Andre Drummond | Ante Zizic | Jordan Bell
Coach: J. B. Bickerstaff


Going all-in on what's considered a bad draft as well as giving up on a #5 pick from last year that simply wasn't ready for the league seems dubious. Could you explain what you like about the player's you selected and how they would compliment Sexton?

I'll try my best. Wiseman gives us a low post threat that we solely need. He gives Sexton a great pick & roll partner. Achiuwa is a tantalizing prospect. He brings versatility on the defensive end. He'd be a great frontcourt partner to Wiseman. His shooting was coming along nicely. He's a great fit next to Sexton. Bey is an athletic 3&D small forward. I think he complements Sexton better than Osman. He can also create for himself. Alexander is a combo guard. He'd be a nice spark plug off our bench.


My first concern would be the lack of a secondary or perhaps a primary playmaker, albeit I imaging Love or Nance will be our PF for the next few years.

btw, Zizic is expected to go to Europe next season.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Wed Aug 5, 2020 7:39 pm

A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#7 » by JonFromVA » Wed Aug 5, 2020 8:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.


I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#8 » by Revenged25 » Wed Aug 5, 2020 8:19 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.


I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...


IIRC Kawhi was actually in the discussion for our pick at #4 and they had a joint workout with TT & Kawhi.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#9 » by jbk1234 » Wed Aug 5, 2020 8:25 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.


I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...


If there's a guy they really like, and they can land him, go do it. But I'm underwhelmed by this draft and there's a dearth of tape due to the NCAA tournament getting cancelled. The part of the season where our rookies should've gotten a ton of run was cut off. They don't really know what they have and they should really want players to develop within systems that resemble NBA schemes. That's hard enough to do playing alongside veterans. I mean Sexton looked bad until the second half of last season. Adding three rookies, on top of the three guys we drafted last year, on top of Sexton, it's hard to see that ending well.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#10 » by JonFromVA » Wed Aug 5, 2020 9:16 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.


I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...


IIRC Kawhi was actually in the discussion for our pick at #4 and they had a joint workout with TT & Kawhi.


I think you mean Klay?

The Cavs tried hard to get back in to the draft so they could get Klay, but they'd prioritized Thompson above him and obviously couldn't get it done.

Personally, I always suspected they wanted to trade with Washington (4 for 6 & 18) who coveted Kanter, but when Kanter went #3 that wasn't going to happen. There's little doubt Tristan would had been there at #6, alas it would had taken some more dealing to turn the #18 in to Klay or Kawai.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#11 » by Stillwater » Wed Aug 5, 2020 9:59 pm

I mean if they are sitting at 5 they will probably be picking another guard if they go bpa unless somehow by some miracle big O or WIseman are still there. some think O will be , I am not sold that will be the case esp if 2 of ATL,GSW and DET are in the top 4 and WIseman is gone 1st to one of them. Depends on the order really imo. I think Edwards is a little overrated on all these mocks that have him as a virtual top 3 lock. He has a case but even so maybe given his handle for a athletic guard that can defend you could argue it over most other options but for us he needs the ball too much to make a ton of sense over a elite defender like Okoro,Okongwu or Vassell. Even at 2-4 I would take any one of those 3 for fit purposes but Okongwu would be the first choice for the highest floor and Wiseman the 2nd for highest upside that does not interfere with the development of the guard core at all
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#12 » by gflem » Wed Aug 5, 2020 10:02 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:A few thoughts: (1) This isn't a strong draft. The reporting is that several teams are looking to trade down if they fall outside of the top two. There's also reporting that tax paying teams with late firsts may look to sell those picks for financial reasons because of everything that's going on. (2) Unless you completely miss on player, and he doesn't look like he belongs in the league, you cannot cut the cord on 19-year old guys this early. Garland didn't even get a full season and starting him next to Sexton was obviously a mistake - for both players. (3) You're not going to develop players if you're adding a bunch of rookies to the roster every year. KPJ needs minutes. Windler hasn't even suited up for us. I wouldn't part with Garland and that Bucks pick so we can bring in three new rookies from a meh draft.


I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...


If there's a guy they really like, and they can land him, go do it. But I'm underwhelmed by this draft and there's a dearth of tape due to the NCAA tournament getting cancelled. The part of the season where our rookies should've gotten a ton of run was cut off. They don't really know what they have and they should really want players to develop within systems that resemble NBA schemes. That's hard enough to do playing alongside veterans. I mean Sexton looked bad until the second half of last season. Adding three rookies, on top of the three guys we drafted last year, on top of Sexton, it's hard to see that ending well.

I'm for trying to get into the later first round for a chance at Jalen Smith/Jaden Mcdaniels if either is available, but would also be fine with moving Garland and taking on salary if we could land a lottery pick (preferably top 10). That probably isn't going to happen, but despite the small sample size I don't believe he is going to be able to defend at even a subpar level in the NBA. Adding 3 rookies to the mix would be challenging but adding talent is the goal and there aren't going to be talented vets lining up to join this team any time soon.
I think a lot of people fall in love with potential (myself included) and that's mostly what you get with young players, but playing Garland and Sexton together isn't going to work out any better in the future imo, so if the team can identify a player that they think can be a difference maker, even at pg, or even a better fit with Sexton they should seriously consider it, regardless of any reservations as to how many young players they already have on the roster. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but Garland in particular did little to impress me and Windler is just a question mark at this point.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#13 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 6, 2020 1:40 am

Personally would keep Garland 70% of the time to develop at least 1 more season even if he is a 6th man all season unless a late lottery pick became available in return with a highly ranked guard on Cavs board available example if Pels offer 12th and filler (Hart)for Garland and Cavs could get a big 3-4 like Williams or if Deni falls i think it would be possible to justify.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2020 3:43 pm

gflem wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I agree, but otoh, we (and most importantly) the team should have an open mind.

I mean, what-if we were able to trade the #4 pick in the "weak" 2011 draft (we took TT) and ended up with the a pair of later picks we used to snag Klay Thompson and Kawai Leonard or Jimmy Butler (and we didn't wreck their development)?

Is there a Klay-type in this draft? A promising shooter, but undervalued due to being an upperclassmen and not super athletic?

Or is there a Kawai/Jimmy type with all the tools that just needs time to flesh out their game?

If we felt strongly enough there were a couple of players we could get with that sort of an upside that might clean up our starting-5, maybe should trade Garland or really anyone on the roster for that matter.

Or maybe JBB believes he has enough young mouths to feed and the last thing he wants is 3 more rookies ...


If there's a guy they really like, and they can land him, go do it. But I'm underwhelmed by this draft and there's a dearth of tape due to the NCAA tournament getting cancelled. The part of the season where our rookies should've gotten a ton of run was cut off. They don't really know what they have and they should really want players to develop within systems that resemble NBA schemes. That's hard enough to do playing alongside veterans. I mean Sexton looked bad until the second half of last season. Adding three rookies, on top of the three guys we drafted last year, on top of Sexton, it's hard to see that ending well.

I'm for trying to get into the later first round for a chance at Jalen Smith/Jaden Mcdaniels if either is available, but would also be fine with moving Garland and taking on salary if we could land a lottery pick (preferably top 10). That probably isn't going to happen, but despite the small sample size I don't believe he is going to be able to defend at even a subpar level in the NBA. Adding 3 rookies to the mix would be challenging but adding talent is the goal and there aren't going to be talented vets lining up to join this team any time soon.
I think a lot of people fall in love with potential (myself included) and that's mostly what you get with young players, but playing Garland and Sexton together isn't going to work out any better in the future imo, so if the team can identify a player that they think can be a difference maker, even at pg, or even a better fit with Sexton they should seriously consider it, regardless of any reservations as to how many young players they already have on the roster. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but Garland in particular did little to impress me and Windler is just a question mark at this point.


Not all young men are done growing physically at 19 and it is certainly the case that professional athletes can fill out as their careers advance. When you're drafting based on upside and ceiling, you've got to give them at least two full seasons. He'd be entering in junior year in college.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Thu Aug 6, 2020 4:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If there's a guy they really like, and they can land him, go do it. But I'm underwhelmed by this draft and there's a dearth of tape due to the NCAA tournament getting cancelled. The part of the season where our rookies should've gotten a ton of run was cut off. They don't really know what they have and they should really want players to develop within systems that resemble NBA schemes. That's hard enough to do playing alongside veterans. I mean Sexton looked bad until the second half of last season. Adding three rookies, on top of the three guys we drafted last year, on top of Sexton, it's hard to see that ending well.

I'm for trying to get into the later first round for a chance at Jalen Smith/Jaden Mcdaniels if either is available, but would also be fine with moving Garland and taking on salary if we could land a lottery pick (preferably top 10). That probably isn't going to happen, but despite the small sample size I don't believe he is going to be able to defend at even a subpar level in the NBA. Adding 3 rookies to the mix would be challenging but adding talent is the goal and there aren't going to be talented vets lining up to join this team any time soon.
I think a lot of people fall in love with potential (myself included) and that's mostly what you get with young players, but playing Garland and Sexton together isn't going to work out any better in the future imo, so if the team can identify a player that they think can be a difference maker, even at pg, or even a better fit with Sexton they should seriously consider it, regardless of any reservations as to how many young players they already have on the roster. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but Garland in particular did little to impress me and Windler is just a question mark at this point.


Not all young men are done growing physically at 19 and it is certainly the case that professional athletes can fill out as their careers advance. When you're drafting based on upside and ceiling, you've got to give them at least two full seasons. He'd be entering in junior year in college.


Lot of Cavs fans said they didn't want any part of Trae Young because he would always be too little - and felt vindicated when he scored out as one of the worst players in the league as a rookie; but Hawks fans seem pretty happy with him now.

We need to develop assets if for no other reason than that at least we'll get something decent for them if we have to trade them for players who fit better.

I'm sure many of us remember when the Cavs drafted Kevin Johnson after Mark Price had a disappointing rookie season. It turned out both were terrific players, and we were able to turn KJ in to Larry Nance; but Johnson had already played in 118 games at the NCAA level before entering the NBA .vs. Garland's 5 (now make that 64 including the pros).
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#16 » by jbk1234 » Thu Aug 6, 2020 5:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
gflem wrote:I'm for trying to get into the later first round for a chance at Jalen Smith/Jaden Mcdaniels if either is available, but would also be fine with moving Garland and taking on salary if we could land a lottery pick (preferably top 10). That probably isn't going to happen, but despite the small sample size I don't believe he is going to be able to defend at even a subpar level in the NBA. Adding 3 rookies to the mix would be challenging but adding talent is the goal and there aren't going to be talented vets lining up to join this team any time soon.
I think a lot of people fall in love with potential (myself included) and that's mostly what you get with young players, but playing Garland and Sexton together isn't going to work out any better in the future imo, so if the team can identify a player that they think can be a difference maker, even at pg, or even a better fit with Sexton they should seriously consider it, regardless of any reservations as to how many young players they already have on the roster. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but Garland in particular did little to impress me and Windler is just a question mark at this point.


Not all young men are done growing physically at 19 and it is certainly the case that professional athletes can fill out as their careers advance. When you're drafting based on upside and ceiling, you've got to give them at least two full seasons. He'd be entering in junior year in college.


Lot of Cavs fans said they didn't want any part of Trae Young because he would always be too little - and felt vindicated when he scored out as one of the worst players in the league as a rookie; but Hawks fans seem pretty happy with him now.

We need to develop assets if for no other reason than that at least we'll get something decent for them if we have to trade them for players who fit better.

I'm sure many of us remember when the Cavs drafted Kevin Johnson after Mark Price had a disappointing rookie season. It turned out both were terrific players, and we were able to turn KJ in to Larry Nance; but Johnson had already played in 118 games at the NCAA level before entering the NBA .vs. Garland's 5 (now make that 64 including the pros).


The Magic traded both Dipo and T. Harris for scraps. The Bucks probably should've kept Brogdon. The Pacers are going to have on the best back courts in the league and they drafted neither guy.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#17 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 6, 2020 5:55 pm

I agree after some more pros and cons weighing with the idea that it is just too soon afer such a bad and cut short season to part with Garland without taking a loss for the most part , but again if a high floor guard with a similar or better ceiling is available in the high lottery and they like him so much that they take him, do they then part shop garland right away if it means you can add a big or 3-4 defender late lottery...probably.
I always keep coming back to them taking Wiseman or big O as best options long term not only for fit with the current core after next season but because they have the highest upside and the highest floor respectively outside of maybe Edwards. So the odds are pretty slim they will have any plans to move DG without some ridiculous offer.
I mean after the top 2 targeted bigs (imo) then the field gets dicey with guards and wings of similar potentials but its probably Ball,Okoro and Edwards in the 345 as the BPA for CLE there followed by Halliburton,Deni,Vassell,Hayes and maybe Obi is higher on the board than he should be or maybe I am wrong and he should be idk.
Either way we should get a nice piece to add to the front court imo in the lottery or a dynamic off ball wing and if anything a late 2nd could get them a nice floor general that defends like Hagans but needs to improve as a shooter. or just a pure pass first guard that can fill it up in the FVV fashion like Pritchard should help the forwards develop.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#18 » by JonFromVA » Thu Aug 6, 2020 6:08 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Not all young men are done growing physically at 19 and it is certainly the case that professional athletes can fill out as their careers advance. When you're drafting based on upside and ceiling, you've got to give them at least two full seasons. He'd be entering in junior year in college.


Lot of Cavs fans said they didn't want any part of Trae Young because he would always be too little - and felt vindicated when he scored out as one of the worst players in the league as a rookie; but Hawks fans seem pretty happy with him now.

We need to develop assets if for no other reason than that at least we'll get something decent for them if we have to trade them for players who fit better.

I'm sure many of us remember when the Cavs drafted Kevin Johnson after Mark Price had a disappointing rookie season. It turned out both were terrific players, and we were able to turn KJ in to Larry Nance; but Johnson had already played in 118 games at the NCAA level before entering the NBA .vs. Garland's 5 (now make that 64 including the pros).


The Magic traded both Dipo and T. Harris for scraps. The Bucks probably should've kept Brogdon. The Pacers are going to have on the best back courts in the league and they drafted neither guy.


And Phoenix gave away T.J. Warren. It goes on and on. There are a lot of minefields building through the draft at all levels of the chain and one of the biggest mistakes is just a lack of patience.

Oladipo was 25 years old when he had his break-out season. If Garland takes just as long, he'll be in the second season of his second contract; and he won't be cheap because of the CBA rules regarding top picks. If I figured this right, his QO coming off his rookie deal would be $11.8M and that's just to make sure we can match any offer.

It's going to be hard to justify keeping a backup PG or 6th man on the roster at $11.8M +, yet, if we want to see what we've really got - we may have no choice but to take that risk.

Fun!
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#19 » by Stillwater » Thu Aug 6, 2020 6:23 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Lot of Cavs fans said they didn't want any part of Trae Young because he would always be too little - and felt vindicated when he scored out as one of the worst players in the league as a rookie; but Hawks fans seem pretty happy with him now.

We need to develop assets if for no other reason than that at least we'll get something decent for them if we have to trade them for players who fit better.

I'm sure many of us remember when the Cavs drafted Kevin Johnson after Mark Price had a disappointing rookie season. It turned out both were terrific players, and we were able to turn KJ in to Larry Nance; but Johnson had already played in 118 games at the NCAA level before entering the NBA .vs. Garland's 5 (now make that 64 including the pros).


The Magic traded both Dipo and T. Harris for scraps. The Bucks probably should've kept Brogdon. The Pacers are going to have on the best back courts in the league and they drafted neither guy.


And Phoenix gave away T.J. Warren. It goes on and on. There are a lot of minefields building through the draft at all levels of the chain and one of the biggest mistakes is just a lack of patience.

Oladipo was 25 years old when he had his break-out season. If Garland takes just as long, he'll be in the second season of his second contract; and he won't be cheap because of the CBA rules regarding top picks. If I figured this right, his QO coming off his rookie deal would be $11.8M and that's just to make sure we can match any offer.

It's going to be hard to justify keeping a backup PG or 6th man on the roster at $11.8M +, yet, if we want to see what we've really got - we may have no choice but to take that risk.

Fun!

if your top bigs and wings are gone at 5 for example do you pick a guard again as the BPA esp if its one you had as a top 3 prospect and have a minutes war or do you overpick somebody else to avoid upsetting the apple cart? They already know Sexton and Garland will never play together so if they pick a guard in this draft one of them is going to be moved. I will keep Sexton since he already has proven more even if I regret it later when Garland becomes a decent rotation player. The reality is it is highly unlikely DG is ever going to be worth his $ and if your only reason for keeping him is so you dont get burned later when he turns into something like what you hoped when you drafted him it wont even matter if the return was an equally good player at another position of greater need etc.
I would not shop him because as is he probably isnt worth a mid first in this bad draft...but that also is because of how many guards are in this draft where noone will overpay for the chance to find out if DG will ever become anything. But if they do you have to consider it...
We need to take a big and if they are gone take the highest floor 2-4 defender , let the guards develop another year and if DG is better you can move him for real value later if the rotation is still terrible defensively
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Cleveland Cavaliers dream offseason 

Post#20 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 7, 2020 2:25 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
The Magic traded both Dipo and T. Harris for scraps. The Bucks probably should've kept Brogdon. The Pacers are going to have on the best back courts in the league and they drafted neither guy.


And Phoenix gave away T.J. Warren. It goes on and on. There are a lot of minefields building through the draft at all levels of the chain and one of the biggest mistakes is just a lack of patience.

Oladipo was 25 years old when he had his break-out season. If Garland takes just as long, he'll be in the second season of his second contract; and he won't be cheap because of the CBA rules regarding top picks. If I figured this right, his QO coming off his rookie deal would be $11.8M and that's just to make sure we can match any offer.

It's going to be hard to justify keeping a backup PG or 6th man on the roster at $11.8M +, yet, if we want to see what we've really got - we may have no choice but to take that risk.

Fun!

if your top bigs and wings are gone at 5 for example do you pick a guard again as the BPA esp if its one you had as a top 3 prospect and have a minutes war or do you overpick somebody else to avoid upsetting the apple cart? They already know Sexton and Garland will never play together so if they pick a guard in this draft one of them is going to be moved. I will keep Sexton since he already has proven more even if I regret it later when Garland becomes a decent rotation player. The reality is it is highly unlikely DG is ever going to be worth his $ and if your only reason for keeping him is so you dont get burned later when he turns into something like what you hoped when you drafted him it wont even matter if the return was an equally good player at another position of greater need etc.
I would not shop him because as is he probably isnt worth a mid first in this bad draft...but that also is because of how many guards are in this draft where noone will overpay for the chance to find out if DG will ever become anything. But if they do you have to consider it...
We need to take a big and if they are gone take the highest floor 2-4 defender , let the guards develop another year and if DG is better you can move him for real value later if the rotation is still terrible defensively


Any trade is contingent on the return, but presuming that return would be low for either Garland or Sexton - I'd be willing to overdraft the guard spot and let things play out.

Fortunately, all the guards at the top of the draft seem to be 6'5" or taller, so at least we'd be adding some lineup versatility.

Heck, it would probably even help the trade value of our prospects if we limited their minutes, hid their weaknesses, and teased their upside. Other teams seem to get away with it. I'd prefer we just find a way to develop all our talent, but by hook or crook we need to find a way to increase the value of our players not wreck it.

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