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Aaron Nesmith at 5?

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JonFromVA
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Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#1 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:33 am

I keep looking for a player with some sort of elite or at least NBA level abilities in this draft, and I keep thinking about Nesmith who shot 50% on his 3pters (with volume) has nice size, moves well off the ball, defends somewhat and needs a lot of work to become a good dribbler/finisher/passer/etc; but he does have something to at least start with.

In terms of fit, the last thing we need is another player who needs the ball in his hands, so Nesmith should be able to contribute at SG or SF for the Cavs and just bury shots that our other wings typically clank.

I mean, if his ceiling is Kyle Korver, I'd argue the Hawk's offense was primarily built around his gravity, so, even that's nothing to sneeze at.

Of course the draft mocks have him going much, much later than 5.

So ... feel free to derail my Nesmith Train, but just thought I'd see how crazy of an idea this is ...
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:47 am

not that good imo. not a good enough on ball creator at all to justify a top 10 pick unless the Cav had a 10 dime a game true pass first point guard to generate offense for Nesmith who cant create for himself even a little bit
I wouldnt even draft him in the first with his injury history and meh athletically etc. but he is one hell of a good catch and shoot wing with some decent defensive awareness.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#3 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:11 am

Stillwater wrote:not that good imo. not a good enough on ball creator at all to justify a top 10 pick unless the Cav had a 10 dime a game true pass first point guard to generate offense for Nesmith who cant create for himself even a little bit
I wouldnt even draft him in the first with his injury history and meh athletically etc. but he is one hell of a good catch and shoot wing with some decent defensive awareness.


Who else could we take at 5 that can shoot, defend some, and can play off the ball? It just makes everything harder in the pace & space era to draft players who aren't proven shooters. Yeah, some will learn and improve, but there are no guarantees.

Having excellent floor spacing will generate more team assists.

fwiw, the videos I've seen show Nesmith can adjust to a defender coming at him and get his shot up like we've seen a lot of NBA shooters add to their game.

If he could become similar to Rip Hamilton, I'd certainly take that at 5 in this draft. There's some similarity in their college numbers ...
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#4 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:34 am

How about Vassell? Compromise some on shooting but get more upside?
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#5 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:43 pm

JonFromVA wrote:How about Vassell? Compromise some on shooting but get more upside?

Fyi Windler is a better cutter and creator then Nesmith had shown and was our bench role player version of Korver pick imo.
Vassell is a different level prospect entirely.
Can defend 1-4 and an elite shot form and unguardable release. I think he is the highest floor wing in the draft.
Has also got some pretty underrated court vision for a off ball player in fl st. imo and was completely unselfish in fl st system in the name of winning and letting game come to him. Imo his impact does not even show up in the box score offensive wise and could be he was a held back slept on 1st option stud in the sense that the 1 dribble pull up is Kawhi like and the foundation of a two way player is a cornerstone.tgar would be the steel part if he is that.
My only issue with Vassel is he doesn't have a slasher mentality... Or so it seemed
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#6 » by Revenged25 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:How about Vassell? Compromise some on shooting but get more upside?

Fyi Windler is a better cutter and creator then Nesmith had shown and was our bench role player version of Korver pick imo.
Vassell is a different level prospect entirely.
Can defend 1-4 and an elite shot form and unguardable release. I think he is the highest floor wing in the draft.
Has also got some pretty underrated court vision for a off ball player in fl st. imo and was completely unselfish in fl st system in the name of winning and letting game come to him. Imo his impact does not even show up in the box score offensive wise and could be he was a held back slept on 1st option stud in the sense that the 1 dribble pull up is Kawhi like and the foundation of a two way player is a cornerstone.tgar would be the steel part if he is that.
My only issue with Vassel is he doesn't have a slasher mentality... Or so it seemed


I'm not sure Vassell can guard NBA 3s and 4s consistently without putting on some more muscle which is my only real concern for him.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#7 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:52 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:How about Vassell? Compromise some on shooting but get more upside?

Fyi Windler is a better cutter and creator then Nesmith had shown and was our bench role player version of Korver pick imo.
Vassell is a different level prospect entirely.
Can defend 1-4 and an elite shot form and unguardable release. I think he is the highest floor wing in the draft.
Has also got some pretty underrated court vision for a off ball player in fl st. imo and was completely unselfish in fl st system in the name of winning and letting game come to him. Imo his impact does not even show up in the box score offensive wise and could be he was a held back slept on 1st option stud in the sense that the 1 dribble pull up is Kawhi like and the foundation of a two way player is a cornerstone.tgar would be the steel part if he is that.
My only issue with Vassel is he doesn't have a slasher mentality... Or so it seemed


Hopefully Windler can stay healthy long enough for us to see what we've got there, but talk to me about the fact that Nesmith is putting up 23 ppg with high-efficiency (68.5 TS%) at 20 years old. That tells me opponents were having a hard time denying him the ball and shutting him down (or he was feeding heavily from attention being paid to someone else on Vandy).

Also while Vandy isn't a top NCAA program, it is a top academic college. While general IQ doesn't always translate to BBIQ, I thought it was worth noting.

I'll be watching some Vassell videos. :)
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#8 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:17 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:How about Vassell? Compromise some on shooting but get more upside?

Fyi Windler is a better cutter and creator then Nesmith had shown and was our bench role player version of Korver pick imo.
Vassell is a different level prospect entirely.
Can defend 1-4 and an elite shot form and unguardable release. I think he is the highest floor wing in the draft.
Has also got some pretty underrated court vision for a off ball player in fl st. imo and was completely unselfish in fl st system in the name of winning and letting game come to him. Imo his impact does not even show up in the box score offensive wise and could be he was a held back slept on 1st option stud in the sense that the 1 dribble pull up is Kawhi like and the foundation of a two way player is a cornerstone.tgar would be the steel part if he is that.
My only issue with Vassel is he doesn't have a slasher mentality... Or so it seemed


Hopefully Windler can stay healthy long enough for us to see what we've got there, but talk to me about the fact that Nesmith is putting up 23 ppg with high-efficiency (68.5 TS%) at 20 years old. That tells me opponents were having a hard time denying him the ball and shutting him down (or he was feeding heavily from attention being paid to someone else on Vandy).

Also while Vandy isn't a top NCAA program, it is a top academic college. While general IQ doesn't always translate to BBIQ, I thought it was worth noting.

I'll be watching some Vassell videos. :)

Not sure at this point but Nesmith is definitely overrated due to the shooting specialist tag being not enough for most people so they talk themselves into thinking he has a complete game.
He has terrible worse than harrison barnes like handles is a meh athlete and the worst passer and playmaker in the draft his reads are ugly . He needs a legit floor general to feed him open looks for his game to transfer at all and i think at best is a 3 point specialist that would be a decent late first pick up as a 9th man fir a contender.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#9 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:13 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Fyi Windler is a better cutter and creator then Nesmith had shown and was our bench role player version of Korver pick imo.
Vassell is a different level prospect entirely.
Can defend 1-4 and an elite shot form and unguardable release. I think he is the highest floor wing in the draft.
Has also got some pretty underrated court vision for a off ball player in fl st. imo and was completely unselfish in fl st system in the name of winning and letting game come to him. Imo his impact does not even show up in the box score offensive wise and could be he was a held back slept on 1st option stud in the sense that the 1 dribble pull up is Kawhi like and the foundation of a two way player is a cornerstone.tgar would be the steel part if he is that.
My only issue with Vassel is he doesn't have a slasher mentality... Or so it seemed


Hopefully Windler can stay healthy long enough for us to see what we've got there, but talk to me about the fact that Nesmith is putting up 23 ppg with high-efficiency (68.5 TS%) at 20 years old. That tells me opponents were having a hard time denying him the ball and shutting him down (or he was feeding heavily from attention being paid to someone else on Vandy).

Also while Vandy isn't a top NCAA program, it is a top academic college. While general IQ doesn't always translate to BBIQ, I thought it was worth noting.

I'll be watching some Vassell videos. :)

Not sure at this point but Nesmith is definitely overrated due to the shooting specialist tag being not enough for most people so they talk themselves into thinking he has a complete game.
He has terrible worse than harrison barnes like handles is a meh athlete and the worst passer and playmaker in the draft his reads are ugly . He needs a legit floor general to feed him open looks for his game to transfer at all and i think at best is a 3 point specialist that would be a decent late first pick up as a 9th man fir a contender.


I get the limitations in Nesmith's game, but who was the last 3pt specialist that averaged 23 pgg as a College freshman or sophmore?

Something is going on there, and it would be nice to understand it before dismissing him.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:24 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Hopefully Windler can stay healthy long enough for us to see what we've got there, but talk to me about the fact that Nesmith is putting up 23 ppg with high-efficiency (68.5 TS%) at 20 years old. That tells me opponents were having a hard time denying him the ball and shutting him down (or he was feeding heavily from attention being paid to someone else on Vandy).

Also while Vandy isn't a top NCAA program, it is a top academic college. While general IQ doesn't always translate to BBIQ, I thought it was worth noting.

I'll be watching some Vassell videos. :)

Not sure at this point but Nesmith is definitely overrated due to the shooting specialist tag being not enough for most people so they talk themselves into thinking he has a complete game.
He has terrible worse than harrison barnes like handles is a meh athlete and the worst passer and playmaker in the draft his reads are ugly . He needs a legit floor general to feed him open looks for his game to transfer at all and i think at best is a 3 point specialist that would be a decent late first pick up as a 9th man fir a contender.


I get the limitations in Nesmith's game, but who was the last 3pt specialist that averaged 23 pgg as a College freshman or sophmore?

Something is going on there, and it would be nice to understand it before dismissing him.

I hear you but doesnt the inability to create for himself and being a system only player with plays run for him that cannot by any means get to the rim with a dribble drive concern you? If not watch something besides highlight reels...he aint that good at basketball.
I think there have been alot of a great shooters that did well in college and never amounted to anything in the NBA.
He has to have been a much better passer to overlook the lack of handles.
To me he is Hood at best if he ever develops his ability to move with the ball.
I would rather have Okoro that cant shoot a lick than draft a catch and shoot ONLY sniper at 5.
They will have to really be beleiving his game is more advanced than he showed imo to even be a consideration that high.
Even if they love his upside they could still trade down to late lottery and get him 90% of the time unless some other team is so low on developing somone they take a 1 trick pony in the lottery
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#11 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:39 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Not sure at this point but Nesmith is definitely overrated due to the shooting specialist tag being not enough for most people so they talk themselves into thinking he has a complete game.
He has terrible worse than harrison barnes like handles is a meh athlete and the worst passer and playmaker in the draft his reads are ugly . He needs a legit floor general to feed him open looks for his game to transfer at all and i think at best is a 3 point specialist that would be a decent late first pick up as a 9th man fir a contender.


I get the limitations in Nesmith's game, but who was the last 3pt specialist that averaged 23 pgg as a College freshman or sophmore?

Something is going on there, and it would be nice to understand it before dismissing him.

I hear you but doesnt the inability to create for himself and being a system only player with plays run for him that cannot by any means get to the rim with a dribble drive concern you? If not watch something besides highlight reels...he aint that good at basketball.
I think there have been alot of a great shooters that did well in college and never amounted to anything in the NBA.
He has to have been a much better passer to overlook the lack of handles.
To me he is Hood at best if he ever develops his ability to move with the ball.
I would rather have Okoro that cant shoot a lick than draft a catch and shoot ONLY sniper at 5.
They will have to really be beleiving his game is more advanced than he showed imo to even be a consideration that high.
Even if they love his upside they could still trade down to late lottery and get him 90% of the time unless some other team is so low on developing somone they take a 1 trick pony in the lottery


All their weaknesses concern me, but I'm focusing on NBA-level skills that really matter ... and in this day and age, it's shooting, creating, scoring ... and perhaps a highly mobile rim protector / rim runner.

And a deadeye shooter who moves off the ball also helps create offense due to gravity/attention even if he's not a good passer.

A player who just runs to the 3pt line and buries shots when left alone simply does not average 23 ppg, because opponents do not leave a high-volume 50% 3pt shooter alone!

In the end, you're counting on prospects to be able to evolve their game; but expecting some of these guys who struggle to shoot 70% from the charity stripe to go from bad 3pt shooters from college distance to efficient 3pt shooters at nba range is a pretty big ask.

fwiw, Rodney Hood has always been a well though of prospect. His issues seem to be in his head, which is something else I expect/hope the Cavs are taking in to consideration.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#12 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:29 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I get the limitations in Nesmith's game, but who was the last 3pt specialist that averaged 23 pgg as a College freshman or sophmore?

Something is going on there, and it would be nice to understand it before dismissing him.

I hear you but doesnt the inability to create for himself and being a system only player with plays run for him that cannot by any means get to the rim with a dribble drive concern you? If not watch something besides highlight reels...he aint that good at basketball.
I think there have been alot of a great shooters that did well in college and never amounted to anything in the NBA.
He has to have been a much better passer to overlook the lack of handles.
To me he is Hood at best if he ever develops his ability to move with the ball.
I would rather have Okoro that cant shoot a lick than draft a catch and shoot ONLY sniper at 5.
They will have to really be beleiving his game is more advanced than he showed imo to even be a consideration that high.
Even if they love his upside they could still trade down to late lottery and get him 90% of the time unless some other team is so low on developing somone they take a 1 trick pony in the lottery


All their weaknesses concern me, but I'm focusing on NBA-level skills that really matter ... and in this day and age, it's shooting, creating, scoring ... and perhaps a highly mobile rim protector / rim runner.

And a deadeye shooter who moves off the ball also helps create offense due to gravity/attention even if he's not a good passer.

A player who just runs to the 3pt line and buries shots when left alone simply does not average 23 ppg, because opponents do not leave a high-volume 50% 3pt shooter alone!

In the end, you're counting on prospects to be able to evolve their game; but expecting some of these guys who struggle to shoot 70% from the charity stripe to go from bad 3pt shooters from college distance to efficient 3pt shooters at nba range is a pretty big ask.

fwiw, Rodney Hood has always been a well though of prospect. His issues seem to be in his head, which is something else I expect/hope the Cavs are taking in to consideration.

they often left him alone and made him shoot it because although 50% from deep is a great % he never was successful putting the ball on the floor. I like him as a prospect if they think he can develop into a Klay level player at the next level, but I also dont see it at all with him given his lack of bbiq beyond jumpers. He has some nice flashes as a defender so all in all you could take him in the 10-15 range as a 3rd or 4th option provided you can teach him how to move the ball instead of being a black hole like he has been
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#13 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:59 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I hear you but doesnt the inability to create for himself and being a system only player with plays run for him that cannot by any means get to the rim with a dribble drive concern you? If not watch something besides highlight reels...he aint that good at basketball.
I think there have been alot of a great shooters that did well in college and never amounted to anything in the NBA.
He has to have been a much better passer to overlook the lack of handles.
To me he is Hood at best if he ever develops his ability to move with the ball.
I would rather have Okoro that cant shoot a lick than draft a catch and shoot ONLY sniper at 5.
They will have to really be beleiving his game is more advanced than he showed imo to even be a consideration that high.
Even if they love his upside they could still trade down to late lottery and get him 90% of the time unless some other team is so low on developing somone they take a 1 trick pony in the lottery


All their weaknesses concern me, but I'm focusing on NBA-level skills that really matter ... and in this day and age, it's shooting, creating, scoring ... and perhaps a highly mobile rim protector / rim runner.

And a deadeye shooter who moves off the ball also helps create offense due to gravity/attention even if he's not a good passer.

A player who just runs to the 3pt line and buries shots when left alone simply does not average 23 ppg, because opponents do not leave a high-volume 50% 3pt shooter alone!

In the end, you're counting on prospects to be able to evolve their game; but expecting some of these guys who struggle to shoot 70% from the charity stripe to go from bad 3pt shooters from college distance to efficient 3pt shooters at nba range is a pretty big ask.

fwiw, Rodney Hood has always been a well though of prospect. His issues seem to be in his head, which is something else I expect/hope the Cavs are taking in to consideration.


they often left him alone and made him shoot it because although 50% from deep is a great % he never was successful putting the ball on the floor. I like him as a prospect if they think he can develop into a Klay level player at the next level, but I also dont see it at all with him given his lack of bbiq beyond jumpers. He has some nice flashes as a defender so all in all you could take him in the 10-15 range as a 3rd or 4th option provided you can teach him how to move the ball instead of being a black hole like he has been


They left him alone to shoot 3's because they didn't want to exploit his weakness by making him put the ball on the floor?

Who did he pay off to make that happen?

I'm not saying I can't be de-railed from my Nesmith train (Vassell might just do it after I watch some more film), but I still want to understand what was going on with Nesmith.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#14 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:08 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
All their weaknesses concern me, but I'm focusing on NBA-level skills that really matter ... and in this day and age, it's shooting, creating, scoring ... and perhaps a highly mobile rim protector / rim runner.

And a deadeye shooter who moves off the ball also helps create offense due to gravity/attention even if he's not a good passer.

A player who just runs to the 3pt line and buries shots when left alone simply does not average 23 ppg, because opponents do not leave a high-volume 50% 3pt shooter alone!

In the end, you're counting on prospects to be able to evolve their game; but expecting some of these guys who struggle to shoot 70% from the charity stripe to go from bad 3pt shooters from college distance to efficient 3pt shooters at nba range is a pretty big ask.

fwiw, Rodney Hood has always been a well though of prospect. His issues seem to be in his head, which is something else I expect/hope the Cavs are taking in to consideration.


they often left him alone and made him shoot it because although 50% from deep is a great % he never was successful putting the ball on the floor. I like him as a prospect if they think he can develop into a Klay level player at the next level, but I also dont see it at all with him given his lack of bbiq beyond jumpers. He has some nice flashes as a defender so all in all you could take him in the 10-15 range as a 3rd or 4th option provided you can teach him how to move the ball instead of being a black hole like he has been


They left him alone to shoot 3's because they didn't want to exploit his weakness by making him put the ball on the floor?

Who did he pay off to make that happen?

I'm not saying I can't be de-railed from my Nesmith train (Vassell might just do it after I watch some more film), but I still want to understand what was going on with Nesmith.

why do you think the % was so high? he makes open J's about the same rate as Garland did in his one on none workout... hell they both played at Vandy lol.
Maybe you are onto something idk. But what I see is a solid shooter who absolutley sucks as a on ball mover and so unless the passing was elite or near elite for an off ball player { like Vassells is] then you cant expect Nesmith to be anything more than a black hole on offense. And in the NBA of course he will get a player on him because of the shot % and the shot % will drop because he has zero ability to be a threat to blow by them then teams will ignore him and let him hit some and then they will defend him and he will get trapped etc etc etc. he is not a top 5 prospect
check the issues I am concerned with for example at 1:40, 4:40,5:09,AND 6:07. no confidence in his handles or finishing ability because they suck
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:43 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
they often left him alone and made him shoot it because although 50% from deep is a great % he never was successful putting the ball on the floor. I like him as a prospect if they think he can develop into a Klay level player at the next level, but I also dont see it at all with him given his lack of bbiq beyond jumpers. He has some nice flashes as a defender so all in all you could take him in the 10-15 range as a 3rd or 4th option provided you can teach him how to move the ball instead of being a black hole like he has been


They left him alone to shoot 3's because they didn't want to exploit his weakness by making him put the ball on the floor?

Who did he pay off to make that happen?

I'm not saying I can't be de-railed from my Nesmith train (Vassell might just do it after I watch some more film), but I still want to understand what was going on with Nesmith.

why do you think the % was so high? he makes open J's about the same rate as Garland did in his one on none workout... hell they both played at Vandy lol.
Maybe you are onto something idk. But what I see is a solid shooter who absolutley sucks as a on ball mover and so unless the passing was elite or near elite for an off ball player { like Vassells is] then you cant expect Nesmith to be anything more than a black hole on offense. And in the NBA of course he will get a player on him because of the shot % and the shot % will drop because he has zero ability to be a threat to blow by them then teams will ignore him and let him hit some and then they will defend him and he will get trapped etc etc etc. he is not a top 5 prospect
check the issues I am concerned with for example at 1:40, 4:40,5:09,AND 6:07. no confidence in his handles or finishing ability because they suck


If that's the worst he looked in that video (and I haven't seen the whole thing yet) then I'm not sure what the problem is. He wasn't turning the ball over or making bad decisions or killing the play. He just reset it, and let someone who knew what they were doing with the ball handle it.

If you can't draft someone who's great at everything, the next best thing is to have different players who are great at different things and figure out how to fit them together.

From what I did see, it looked like Nesmith was getting open on basic stuff like motion and screens. I noticed him shooting from NBA 3pt distance and that seemed to give him an advantage against defenders who were running out to the line and putting a hand up. He'll probably have to extend his shot out even farther at the NBA level to get the same effect, but at 6'5" he should be ok.

Just having a shooter like that on the floor involved in an action causes problems for the defense, and that's valuable, especially when your creators are not all that creative (aka combo-guards).

Now, I wish we'd actually gotten a chance to see Dylan Windler play. I'd love to say a player like Nesmith was redundant because there's nothing he can do that Windler can't do better, but the only thing we know so far that Windler can do is get hurt. And, well, having too much shooting is the kind of problem you want to have.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:42 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
They left him alone to shoot 3's because they didn't want to exploit his weakness by making him put the ball on the floor?

Who did he pay off to make that happen?

I'm not saying I can't be de-railed from my Nesmith train (Vassell might just do it after I watch some more film), but I still want to understand what was going on with Nesmith.

why do you think the % was so high? he makes open J's about the same rate as Garland did in his one on none workout... hell they both played at Vandy lol.
Maybe you are onto something idk. But what I see is a solid shooter who absolutley sucks as a on ball mover and so unless the passing was elite or near elite for an off ball player { like Vassells is] then you cant expect Nesmith to be anything more than a black hole on offense. And in the NBA of course he will get a player on him because of the shot % and the shot % will drop because he has zero ability to be a threat to blow by them then teams will ignore him and let him hit some and then they will defend him and he will get trapped etc etc etc. he is not a top 5 prospect
check the issues I am concerned with for example at 1:40, 4:40,5:09,AND 6:07. no confidence in his handles or finishing ability because they suck


If that's the worst he looked in that video (and I haven't seen the whole thing yet) then I'm not sure what the problem is. He wasn't turning the ball over or making bad decisions or killing the play. He just reset it, and let someone who knew what they were doing with the ball handle it.

If you can't draft someone who's great at everything, the next best thing is to have different players who are great at different things and figure out how to fit them together.

From what I did see, it looked like Nesmith was getting open on basic stuff like motion and screens. I noticed him shooting from NBA 3pt distance and that seemed to give him an advantage against defenders who were running out to the line and putting a hand up. He'll probably have to extend his shot out even farther at the NBA level to get the same effect, but at 6'5" he should be ok.

Just having a shooter like that on the floor involved in an action causes problems for the defense, and that's valuable, especially when your creators are not all that creative (aka combo-guards).

Now, I wish we'd actually gotten a chance to see Dylan Windler play. I'd love to say a player like Nesmith was redundant because there's nothing he can do that Windler can't do better, but the only thing we know so far that Windler can do is get hurt. And, well, having too much shooting is the kind of problem you want to have.

imo Windler is better than Nesmith and taking Nesmith in the damn 5 spot would be a terrible decision no matter how nice it would be to add a high % shooter that is injury prone and has a terrible ball handling issue sort of like Duncan Robinson in Miami...a specialist and not a high level starter type which we have to draft with the 5th. Robinson was an UDFA btw
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#17 » by Stillwater » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:01 am

Just an FYI on my low opinion of him. I was pretty high on him for awhile as a Klay Clone until I payed closer attn to his passive behavior and realized how bad of a finisher ,passer and driver he really is. You can take a prospect with 1 legit skill like shooting deep range 3's in the lottery if you want and try to work with the deficiencies but that kid better be at least good or at least semi decent at other parts of the game and I am not seeing anything that would indicate it at all with Nesmith. His shooting is not that good when contested even though he has a couple moves to counter a defender the quick twitch adjustments are just not evident at all.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#18 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:39 am

Stillwater wrote:Just an FYI on my low opinion of him. I was pretty high on him for awhile as a Klay Clone until I payed closer attn to his passive behavior and realized how bad of a finisher ,passer and driver he really is. You can take a prospect with 1 legit skill like shooting deep range 3's in the lottery if you want and try to work with the deficiencies but that kid better be at least good or at least semi decent at other parts of the game and I am not seeing anything that would indicate it at all with Nesmith. His shooting is not that good when contested even though he has a couple moves to counter a defender the quick twitch adjustments are just not evident at all.


I get all that, but its not just that he has 1 skill ... its that he has elite shooting, elite efficiency, good size,, good release, plus wingspan, ability to get open, and high level scoring for a shooter and he's just 20, rather than a polished Senior like Windler.

Comes down to what you want to bet on in a draft with limited options, and I'd like to start with a player that can shoot because that makes everything else so much easier.

The Rockets had the 6th best offense this year but just the 24th best 3pt shooting. They'd destroy the record books if they were any good at it and had some players shooting 45% rather than 31%. For example Eric Gordon can shoot high volume 3's and get to the rim, but on average the Rockets would be better off if someone else was taking those shots.

Anyway, time to watch some videos.
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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#19 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:54 pm

So, I watched some Vassell and Nesmith videos last night, and Vassell's defensive potential is certainly exciting ... but on offense? He doesn't move off the ball like Nesmith does, has a nice first step, but can't get to the rim with it and tends to settle for a mid-range fade-away.

Now, those are certainly both areas he could improve, but it's an example of why I'm fine with a player who has a well defined role in an offense. If Vassell does get significantly stronger, works on his skills, and turns that fade-away jumper in to a deadly weapon, maybe he becomes a Kawhi-style player. But if that doesn't happen, he's just another guy wasting possessions with an inefficient shot and needs someone to create wide open 3's.

Vassell does appear to be a legit 3&D wing, though.

I recommend watching this video on Nesmith:

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Re: Aaron Nesmith at 5? 

Post#20 » by JonFromVA » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:58 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:why do you think the % was so high? he makes open J's about the same rate as Garland did in his one on none workout... hell they both played at Vandy lol.
Maybe you are onto something idk. But what I see is a solid shooter who absolutley sucks as a on ball mover and so unless the passing was elite or near elite for an off ball player { like Vassells is] then you cant expect Nesmith to be anything more than a black hole on offense. And in the NBA of course he will get a player on him because of the shot % and the shot % will drop because he has zero ability to be a threat to blow by them then teams will ignore him and let him hit some and then they will defend him and he will get trapped etc etc etc. he is not a top 5 prospect
check the issues I am concerned with for example at 1:40, 4:40,5:09,AND 6:07. no confidence in his handles or finishing ability because they suck


If that's the worst he looked in that video (and I haven't seen the whole thing yet) then I'm not sure what the problem is. He wasn't turning the ball over or making bad decisions or killing the play. He just reset it, and let someone who knew what they were doing with the ball handle it.

If you can't draft someone who's great at everything, the next best thing is to have different players who are great at different things and figure out how to fit them together.

From what I did see, it looked like Nesmith was getting open on basic stuff like motion and screens. I noticed him shooting from NBA 3pt distance and that seemed to give him an advantage against defenders who were running out to the line and putting a hand up. He'll probably have to extend his shot out even farther at the NBA level to get the same effect, but at 6'5" he should be ok.

Just having a shooter like that on the floor involved in an action causes problems for the defense, and that's valuable, especially when your creators are not all that creative (aka combo-guards).

Now, I wish we'd actually gotten a chance to see Dylan Windler play. I'd love to say a player like Nesmith was redundant because there's nothing he can do that Windler can't do better, but the only thing we know so far that Windler can do is get hurt. And, well, having too much shooting is the kind of problem you want to have.

imo Windler is better than Nesmith and taking Nesmith in the damn 5 spot would be a terrible decision no matter how nice it would be to add a high % shooter that is injury prone and has a terrible ball handling issue sort of like Duncan Robinson in Miami...a specialist and not a high level starter type which we have to draft with the 5th. Robinson was an UDFA btw


I'd gladly draft a high-level starter type at 5 if one was out there ... but you're really not giving Nesmith credit for all the things he can do on offense and defense or why hasn't Robinson ever scored 20ppg?

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