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What if Budenholzer is fired?

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JonFromVA
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What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#1 » by JonFromVA » Fri Sep 4, 2020 3:22 pm

Hopefully JBB turns out to be a great coach, and we know if Coach Bud is fired it will be because he keeps coming up short in the playoffs; but there are very few coaches that have a track record of improving a team like Bud has.

JBB was always in our long-term plans as Beilein's successor, and maybe Bud wouldn't had even considered the Cavs job; but we may have rushed to hand Bickerstaff the head job before seeing what our options might be after the season.

Of course Dan Gilbert would say, he prefers hiring people who haven't "already failed" ... but in a business where there's only one "winner", every coach eventually "fails".

Thoughts? Regrets?

(I accidentally posted this the other day in the general forum, but that discussion has died down, so I'm re-starting it in the forum I intended)
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#2 » by Stillwater » Fri Sep 4, 2020 4:06 pm

If they get swept he will be the driver on the Giannis bus to a trade demand.
Worst playoff coach by record in nba history.
Sorry but that team is stacked around Giannis no way id touch a coach that cant work with that
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#3 » by jbk1234 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 5:57 pm

I really wouldn't move anyone or change anything for a half a season. They've been turning over half the roster midseason for two years now. It's time for a little continuity and a lot of evaluation. They've got some decisions to make that will impact the long term outlook for this team.

Which version of Sexton is real? What type of internal growth do they get from the guys in their second year? How does our rookie play? How much, if anything, do you offer Drummond? Does Love play well enough to get value this summer in a trade? Does the team play well enough that we reconsider trading him? How does the team respond to Bickerstaff?

Those are a lot of open questions and they need answers before the trade deadline and/or this summer's F.A. Let's take a half a season without a coaching change and a roster that's fairly stable.



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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#4 » by JonFromVA » Fri Sep 4, 2020 6:14 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I really wouldn't move anyone or change anything for a half a season. They've been turning over half the roster midseason for two years now. It's time for a little continuity and a lot of evaluation. They've got some decisions to make that will impact the long term outlook for this team.

Which version of Sexton is real? What type of internal growth do they get from the guys in their second year? How does our rookie play? How much, if anything, do you offer Drummond? Does Love play well enough to get value this summer in a trade? Does the team play well enough that we reconsider trading him? How does the team respond to Bickerstaff?

Those are a lot of open questions and they need answers before the trade deadline and/or this summer's F.A. Let's take a half a season without a coaching change and a roster that's fairly stable.


We seem committed to JBB (or at least as committed as Dan Gilbert can manage). I was more wondering if we made a mistake to name him permanent head coach when there are always coaches fired after the season ends.

JBB might turn out to be good, but guys like Budenholzer, Dwayne Casey, Brett Brown, etc, have a far longer track record if Gilbert's goal is to start competing.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#5 » by Stillwater » Fri Sep 4, 2020 6:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I really wouldn't move anyone or change anything for a half a season. They've been turning over half the roster midseason for two years now. It's time for a little continuity and a lot of evaluation. They've got some decisions to make that will impact the long term outlook for this team.

Which version of Sexton is real? What type of internal growth do they get from the guys in their second year? How does our rookie play? How much, if anything, do you offer Drummond? Does Love play well enough to get value this summer in a trade? Does the team play well enough that we reconsider trading him? How does the team respond to Bickerstaff?

Those are a lot of open questions and they need answers before the trade deadline and/or this summer's F.A. Let's take a half a season without a coaching change and a roster that's fairly stable.



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yeah and all those things are assuming there is even a season. I dont know about you but Covid is not getting better for anyone I know across the country.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#6 » by jbk1234 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 6:37 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I really wouldn't move anyone or change anything for a half a season. They've been turning over half the roster midseason for two years now. It's time for a little continuity and a lot of evaluation. They've got some decisions to make that will impact the long term outlook for this team.

Which version of Sexton is real? What type of internal growth do they get from the guys in their second year? How does our rookie play? How much, if anything, do you offer Drummond? Does Love play well enough to get value this summer in a trade? Does the team play well enough that we reconsider trading him? How does the team respond to Bickerstaff?

Those are a lot of open questions and they need answers before the trade deadline and/or this summer's F.A. Let's take a half a season without a coaching change and a roster that's fairly stable.



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yeah and all those things are assuming there is even a season. I dont know about you but Covid is not getting better for anyone I know across the country.
Oh, they would have to bubble for the entire season and they'd have to shorten the season to get the players to agree.

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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#7 » by Stillwater » Fri Sep 4, 2020 6:42 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I really wouldn't move anyone or change anything for a half a season. They've been turning over half the roster midseason for two years now. It's time for a little continuity and a lot of evaluation. They've got some decisions to make that will impact the long term outlook for this team.

Which version of Sexton is real? What type of internal growth do they get from the guys in their second year? How does our rookie play? How much, if anything, do you offer Drummond? Does Love play well enough to get value this summer in a trade? Does the team play well enough that we reconsider trading him? How does the team respond to Bickerstaff?

Those are a lot of open questions and they need answers before the trade deadline and/or this summer's F.A. Let's take a half a season without a coaching change and a roster that's fairly stable.



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yeah and all those things are assuming there is even a season. I dont know about you but Covid is not getting better for anyone I know across the country.
Oh, they would have to bubble for the entire season and they'd have to shorten the season to get the players to agree.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

do you think that is a reasonable possibility? I am not sure it isn't but at the same time don't know if the owners and investors of bad development teams would not rather just "postpone" the season rather than forking out the typical revenue to get some tv ratings
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#8 » by jbk1234 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 7:07 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:yeah and all those things are assuming there is even a season. I dont know about you but Covid is not getting better for anyone I know across the country.
Oh, they would have to bubble for the entire season and they'd have to shorten the season to get the players to agree.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

do you think that is a reasonable possibility? I am not sure it isn't but at the same time don't know if the owners and investors of bad development teams would not rather just "postpone" the season rather than forking out the typical revenue to get some tv ratings
I think every owner has fixed costs that don't go away and some revenue is better than no revenue. I think that players who have made tens of millions already have one set of priorities and players who haven't probably have a different set of priorities.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#9 » by JonFromVA » Fri Sep 4, 2020 10:19 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Oh, they would have to bubble for the entire season and they'd have to shorten the season to get the players to agree.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

do you think that is a reasonable possibility? I am not sure it isn't but at the same time don't know if the owners and investors of bad development teams would not rather just "postpone" the season rather than forking out the typical revenue to get some tv ratings
I think every owner has fixed costs that don't go away and some revenue is better than no revenue. I think that players who have made tens of millions already have one set of priorities and players who haven't probably have a different set of priorities.


We'll get a chance to see how things go with the other leagues before the NBA considers starting up again. The could repeat the Disney bubble, but probably won't have to.

Not to get political, but there's a fair chance we'll see a vaccine on the market before a certain Tuesday in November.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#10 » by Stillwater » Sat Sep 5, 2020 12:08 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:do you think that is a reasonable possibility? I am not sure it isn't but at the same time don't know if the owners and investors of bad development teams would not rather just "postpone" the season rather than forking out the typical revenue to get some tv ratings
I think every owner has fixed costs that don't go away and some revenue is better than no revenue. I think that players who have made tens of millions already have one set of priorities and players who haven't probably have a different set of priorities.


We'll get a chance to see how things go with the other leagues before the NBA considers starting up again. The could repeat the Disney bubble, but probably won't have to.

Not to get political, but there's a fair chance we'll see a vaccine on the market before a certain Tuesday in November.

yeah and it will be a politicaly motivated line of bs imo.
this administration has done nothing but lie to us about the pandemic and imo his recent comments towards the military will be the straw that broke the camels back for him. good riddence I say. I myself have never been a liberal per say but I would never reelect somebody who thinks unless you get paid for something it isnt worth doing.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#11 » by jbk1234 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:14 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:do you think that is a reasonable possibility? I am not sure it isn't but at the same time don't know if the owners and investors of bad development teams would not rather just "postpone" the season rather than forking out the typical revenue to get some tv ratings
I think every owner has fixed costs that don't go away and some revenue is better than no revenue. I think that players who have made tens of millions already have one set of priorities and players who haven't probably have a different set of priorities.


We'll get a chance to see how things go with the other leagues before the NBA considers starting up again. The could repeat the Disney bubble, but probably won't have to.

Not to get political, but there's a fair chance we'll see a vaccine on the market before a certain Tuesday in November.
Yeah, they'll have to prove it works first and that it won't have serious side effects. I'm skeptical either of those is possible before November.

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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#12 » by JonFromVA » Sat Sep 5, 2020 7:04 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I think every owner has fixed costs that don't go away and some revenue is better than no revenue. I think that players who have made tens of millions already have one set of priorities and players who haven't probably have a different set of priorities.


We'll get a chance to see how things go with the other leagues before the NBA considers starting up again. The could repeat the Disney bubble, but probably won't have to.

Not to get political, but there's a fair chance we'll see a vaccine on the market before a certain Tuesday in November.
Yeah, they'll have to prove it works first and that it won't have serious side effects. I'm skeptical either of those is possible before November.


Nah the extended trials with placebo won't be complete, but for better or worse it will probably be available. Of course, good chance the players union says they're not going to be guinea pigs.

Still... lots of ways to stage things so at least the season gets started. Perhaps they wait on the vaccine but start without fans in the stands.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#13 » by Stillwater » Sat Sep 5, 2020 8:05 pm

I mean if we see any of the 20-21 season before 21 I'd say that is a win for the NBA. Personally would like to see a shortened season plan proclaimed before it even starts but given they are doing well inside the bubble now there is optimisim they will do that for a regular season. I dont think the players would ever agree to that.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 9:10 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
We'll get a chance to see how things go with the other leagues before the NBA considers starting up again. The could repeat the Disney bubble, but probably won't have to.

Not to get political, but there's a fair chance we'll see a vaccine on the market before a certain Tuesday in November.
Yeah, they'll have to prove it works first and that it won't have serious side effects. I'm skeptical either of those is possible before November.


Nah the extended trials with placebo won't be complete, but for better or worse it will probably be available. Of course, good chance the players union says they're not going to be guinea pigs.

Still... lots of ways to stage things so at least the season gets started. Perhaps they wait on the vaccine but start without fans in the stands.
There aren't going to be fans in the stands. That's just crazy talk.

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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Sat Sep 5, 2020 9:27 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Yeah, they'll have to prove it works first and that it won't have serious side effects. I'm skeptical either of those is possible before November.


Nah the extended trials with placebo won't be complete, but for better or worse it will probably be available. Of course, good chance the players union says they're not going to be guinea pigs.

Still... lots of ways to stage things so at least the season gets started. Perhaps they wait on the vaccine but start without fans in the stands.
There aren't going to be fans in the stands. That's just crazy talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


We'll see how crazy that is in a week when the NFL gets rolling, but post-vaccine why not?
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Sat Sep 5, 2020 11:48 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Nah the extended trials with placebo won't be complete, but for better or worse it will probably be available. Of course, good chance the players union says they're not going to be guinea pigs.

Still... lots of ways to stage things so at least the season gets started. Perhaps they wait on the vaccine but start without fans in the stands.
There aren't going to be fans in the stands. That's just crazy talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


We'll see how crazy that is in a week when the NFL gets rolling, but post-vaccine why not?

science has always failed to deliver in the greatest times of need in history...
I would love to be optimistic that something that normally takes 11/2-2 years worth of research and trials before approval in a non pandemic pressure cooker and then a year of production before mass distribution would somehow actually be reasonable to anticipate as a "successful" vaccine option that soon , but I don't and won't believe any of it no matter what level of approval is handed out in desperation , you know nobody with anything to lose will inject it
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#17 » by jbk1234 » Sun Sep 6, 2020 6:37 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Nah the extended trials with placebo won't be complete, but for better or worse it will probably be available. Of course, good chance the players union says they're not going to be guinea pigs.

Still... lots of ways to stage things so at least the season gets started. Perhaps they wait on the vaccine but start without fans in the stands.
There aren't going to be fans in the stands. That's just crazy talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


We'll see how crazy that is in a week when the NFL gets rolling, but post-vaccine why not?
Indoors, viral loading, the number of people who jump in line to take a vaccine that looks like it was rushed for political reasons...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#18 » by JonFromVA » Sun Sep 6, 2020 3:35 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:There aren't going to be fans in the stands. That's just crazy talk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


We'll see how crazy that is in a week when the NFL gets rolling, but post-vaccine why not?
Indoors, viral loading, the number of people who jump in line to take a vaccine that looks like it was rushed for political reasons...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


Some NFL teams play in domes and that should give us a glimpse of what would happen in an arena. Or do they all retract these days?

They could put up the hockey screens to help protect the players, and then fans can choose to wear masks, take the vaccine, and deal with the risks ... or stay home.

Dunno anything other than they're going to try to get the next season going by Christmas based on what we know and what players can accept.

It very well could go badly but that doesn't mean they won't try.
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Re: What if Budenholzer is fired? 

Post#19 » by Stillwater » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:32 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
We'll see how crazy that is in a week when the NFL gets rolling, but post-vaccine why not?
Indoors, viral loading, the number of people who jump in line to take a vaccine that looks like it was rushed for political reasons...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


Some NFL teams play in domes and that should give us a glimpse of what would happen in an arena. Or do they all retract these days?

They could put up the hockey screens to help protect the players, and then fans can choose to wear masks, take the vaccine, and deal with the risks ... or stay home.

Dunno anything other than they're going to try to get the next season going by Christmas based on what we know and what players can accept.

It very well could go badly but that doesn't mean they won't try.

? what vaccine? I mean you do realize there will not be some easily available vaccine that soon no matter what right?
I would love to think they could safely allow for some fans with mask mandates and social distancing to pay the price of 10 seats for 1 but the odds of that being a practical outcome are slim to none. The operating cost of the building alone before the sanitation cost changes should people be admitted even on a ltd basis would be astronomical and not cost effective without most seats paid for. The league would take more losses trying to half fill arenas then just postponing the season
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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