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Mock and big board thread take 2

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mg
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#21 » by mg » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:24 pm

^^I doubt the Cavs can get all that for the 5th pick and Love. If New Orleans is willing to give all that up for the 5th pick then I think GS would much prefer that package over the one from Detroit as Jrue is a much better fit than Griffin. Obviously moving up to #2 would be a better trade for the Pels too.
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#22 » by Stillwater » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:55 pm

mg wrote:^^I doubt the Cavs can get all that for the 5th pick and Love. If New Orleans is willing to give all that up for the 5th pick then I think GS would much prefer that package over the one from Detroit as Jrue is a much better fit than Griffin. Obviously moving up to #2 would be a better trade for the Pels too.

why would GSW want Holiday? yeah I know all of these huge player movement ideas are far reaching and unlikely...its just a example of something with potential.
I really dont see anyone getting CLE to move Love & the 5th for anything less
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:26 am

Stillwater wrote:trade city at the top and CAVS jump in sending 5 a protected future Love etc for Aaron Gordon NAW Jaxson Hayes Chuma Okeke and more
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/786024/

Minnesota agrees to trade the 1(ball) with NY where they get back NY own 21 1st top 4 protected then unprotected in 22 as well as the NY picks this year at 8(Okongwu) and 27(Kurucs)

GSW goes all in sending Draymond home with Wiggins to DET with the 2(Hayes) pick for Griffin,Kennard 7th(Avdija) and DET 21 1st lottery protected

CHA trades down giving up 3(Wiseman) Batums expiring and Zeller to BOS for Haywards expiring Robert WIlliams Romeo Langford and BOS picks in 2020 at 14(Maxey) and 30(Oturo)

CLE trades KLove Osman McKinnie and the 5th,& CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25 with ORL and NOP
CLE gets Gordon,NAW,Jaxson Hayes,s/t Chuma Okeke,15(Pokusevski stashed),42(bpa backcourt defensive specialist or elite shooter) & their 22 2nd back.
NOP get 5th(Okoro),McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd and Love.
ORL gets Osman, Holiday,CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights and 2020 13th(Hampton).
-________________________________
post trade
20-21 CLE
1-15 roster:
Sexton/Garland/Exum
Windler/NAW/[kpj/exum]
KPJ/Okeke/[windler]
Gordon/Nance/[okeke]/Wade
Drummond/Hayes/[nance]/Bell
two ways:
42nd pick(ie; Quickly/Hinton/Alexander/Bane etc)
udfa/fa/open spot-
so CLE outgoing:
Love,5th,Osman,22 protected 1st,McKinnie.
incoming:
Gordon,15(Poku or sim stash),Hayes,NAW,s/t Okeke.
--------------
more details
NOP outgoing :
Holiday,NAW,JHayes 13th,42nd, CLE 22 2nd,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights.
incoming:
Love,(5th Okoro or sim)McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd.
--------------
Orlando outgoing:
Gordon,Birch,Okeke,15
incoming:
Holiday,Osman,13th(Hampton or sim),NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights,CLE 22 1st lottery protected etc maybe CLE throws in WAS 22 2nd in the Okeke s/t
Dude, this trade is all kinds of awful for the Cavs. Hayes and NAW both underwhelmed in N.O. There were people who thought Okeke would fall to the second round and he didn't even play in the NBA last season. Last I checked, Gordon still can't shoot.

Meanwhile you've got the Cavs sending out two really good picks that could turn into franchise players and Love.

Even if you think that Sexton is the second coming of prime Westbrook, you've constructed a roster with very little ability to space the floor or defend depending on which players you put out there. That's straight up disaster pants and when it doesn't work, the Cavs don't have their picks.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#24 » by Stillwater » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:59 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:trade city at the top and CAVS jump in sending 5 a protected future Love etc for Aaron Gordon NAW Jaxson Hayes Chuma Okeke and more
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/786024/

Minnesota agrees to trade the 1(ball) with NY where they get back NY own 21 1st top 4 protected then unprotected in 22 as well as the NY picks this year at 8(Okongwu) and 27(Kurucs)

GSW goes all in sending Draymond home with Wiggins to DET with the 2(Hayes) pick for Griffin,Kennard 7th(Avdija) and DET 21 1st lottery protected

CHA trades down giving up 3(Wiseman) Batums expiring and Zeller to BOS for Haywards expiring Robert WIlliams Romeo Langford and BOS picks in 2020 at 14(Maxey) and 30(Oturo)

CLE trades KLove Osman McKinnie and the 5th,& CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25 with ORL and NOP
CLE gets Gordon,NAW,Jaxson Hayes,s/t Chuma Okeke,15(Pokusevski stashed),42(bpa backcourt defensive specialist or elite shooter) & their 22 2nd back.
NOP get 5th(Okoro),McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd and Love.
ORL gets Osman, Holiday,CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights and 2020 13th(Hampton).
-________________________________
post trade
20-21 CLE
1-15 roster:
Sexton/Garland/Exum
Windler/NAW/[kpj/exum]
KPJ/Okeke/[windler]
Gordon/Nance/[okeke]/Wade
Drummond/Hayes/[nance]/Bell
two ways:
42nd pick(ie; Quickly/Hinton/Alexander/Bane etc)
udfa/fa/open spot-
so CLE outgoing:
Love,5th,Osman,22 protected 1st,McKinnie.
incoming:
Gordon,15(Poku or sim stash),Hayes,NAW,s/t Okeke.
--------------
more details
NOP outgoing :
Holiday,NAW,JHayes 13th,42nd, CLE 22 2nd,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights.
incoming:
Love,(5th Okoro or sim)McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd.
--------------
Orlando outgoing:
Gordon,Birch,Okeke,15
incoming:
Holiday,Osman,13th(Hampton or sim),NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights,CLE 22 1st lottery protected etc maybe CLE throws in WAS 22 2nd in the Okeke s/t
Dude, this trade is all kinds of awful for the Cavs. Hayes and NAW both underwhelmed in N.O. There were people who thought Okeke would fall to the second round and he didn't even play in the NBA last season. Last I checked, Gordon still can't shoot.

Meanwhile you've got the Cavs sending out two really good picks that could turn into franchise players and Love.

Even if you think that Sexton is the second coming of prime Westbrook, you've constructed a roster with very little ability to space the floor or defend depending on which players you put out there. That's straight up disaster pants and when it doesn't work, the Cavs don't have their picks.

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One things for sure its never going to happen.
But the thinking as far as incoming players is athleticism defense and with okeke gives spacing from one forward spot assuming he is fully recovered from the acl tear that ended his college career.
Its also banking on spacing from windler sexton kpj and garland.
NAW was a great shooter in college he can be that in CLE as far as Hayes he needs time and is a good rim runner with exceptional mobility etc.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:trade city at the top and CAVS jump in sending 5 a protected future Love etc for Aaron Gordon NAW Jaxson Hayes Chuma Okeke and more
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/786024/

Minnesota agrees to trade the 1(ball) with NY where they get back NY own 21 1st top 4 protected then unprotected in 22 as well as the NY picks this year at 8(Okongwu) and 27(Kurucs)

GSW goes all in sending Draymond home with Wiggins to DET with the 2(Hayes) pick for Griffin,Kennard 7th(Avdija) and DET 21 1st lottery protected

CHA trades down giving up 3(Wiseman) Batums expiring and Zeller to BOS for Haywards expiring Robert WIlliams Romeo Langford and BOS picks in 2020 at 14(Maxey) and 30(Oturo)

CLE trades KLove Osman McKinnie and the 5th,& CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25 with ORL and NOP
CLE gets Gordon,NAW,Jaxson Hayes,s/t Chuma Okeke,15(Pokusevski stashed),42(bpa backcourt defensive specialist or elite shooter) & their 22 2nd back.
NOP get 5th(Okoro),McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd and Love.
ORL gets Osman, Holiday,CLE 22 1st lottery protected then top 4 protected in 23 & 24 then unprotected in 25,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights and 2020 13th(Hampton).
-________________________________
post trade
20-21 CLE
1-15 roster:
Sexton/Garland/Exum
Windler/NAW/[kpj/exum]
KPJ/Okeke/[windler]
Gordon/Nance/[okeke]/Wade
Drummond/Hayes/[nance]/Bell
two ways:
42nd pick(ie; Quickly/Hinton/Alexander/Bane etc)
udfa/fa/open spot-
so CLE outgoing:
Love,5th,Osman,22 protected 1st,McKinnie.
incoming:
Gordon,15(Poku or sim stash),Hayes,NAW,s/t Okeke.
--------------
more details
NOP outgoing :
Holiday,NAW,JHayes 13th,42nd, CLE 22 2nd,NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights.
incoming:
Love,(5th Okoro or sim)McKinnie,Birch,ORL 22 2nd.
--------------
Orlando outgoing:
Gordon,Birch,Okeke,15
incoming:
Holiday,Osman,13th(Hampton or sim),NOP 21 2nd w/ CHI swap rights,CLE 22 1st lottery protected etc maybe CLE throws in WAS 22 2nd in the Okeke s/t
Dude, this trade is all kinds of awful for the Cavs. Hayes and NAW both underwhelmed in N.O. There were people who thought Okeke would fall to the second round and he didn't even play in the NBA last season. Last I checked, Gordon still can't shoot.

Meanwhile you've got the Cavs sending out two really good picks that could turn into franchise players and Love.

Even if you think that Sexton is the second coming of prime Westbrook, you've constructed a roster with very little ability to space the floor or defend depending on which players you put out there. That's straight up disaster pants and when it doesn't work, the Cavs don't have their picks.

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One things for sure its never going to happen.
But the thinking as far as incoming players is athleticism defense and with okeke gives spacing from one forward spot assuming he is fully recovered from the acl tear that ended his college career.
Its also banking on spacing from windler sexton kpj and garland.
NAW was a great shooter in college he can be that in CLE as far as Hayes he needs time and is a good rim runner with exceptional mobility etc.
Right now, it's not clear that any of Windler, Sexton, Garland, NAW, or KPJ will ever be able to defend at a replacement player level. Hayes has a really long way to go before he can start in the NBA, and there's no guarantee he ever gets there. It's not just that Gordon can't shoot, it's that his handle is dicey so when he drives it often ends poorly.

After trading Love and two lottery picks, Nance would still be the best two-way player on the roster. You're giving up lottery picks and Love for a bunch of guys who probably still can't get us to the playoffs in the East..

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#26 » by Stillwater » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:26 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Dude, this trade is all kinds of awful for the Cavs. Hayes and NAW both underwhelmed in N.O. There were people who thought Okeke would fall to the second round and he didn't even play in the NBA last season. Last I checked, Gordon still can't shoot.

Meanwhile you've got the Cavs sending out two really good picks that could turn into franchise players and Love.

Even if you think that Sexton is the second coming of prime Westbrook, you've constructed a roster with very little ability to space the floor or defend depending on which players you put out there. That's straight up disaster pants and when it doesn't work, the Cavs don't have their picks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

One things for sure its never going to happen.
But the thinking as far as incoming players is athleticism defense and with okeke gives spacing from one forward spot assuming he is fully recovered from the acl tear that ended his college career.
Its also banking on spacing from windler sexton kpj and garland.
NAW was a great shooter in college he can be that in CLE as far as Hayes he needs time and is a good rim runner with exceptional mobility etc.
Right now, it's not clear that any of Windler, Sexton, Garland, NAW, or KPJ will ever be able to defend at a replacement player level. Hayes has a really long way to go before he can start in the NBA, and there's no guarantee he ever gets there. It's not just that Gordon can't shoot, it's that his handle is dicey so when he drives it often ends poorly.

After trading Love and two lottery picks, Nance would still be the best two-way player on the roster. You're giving up lottery picks and Love for a bunch of guys who probably still can't get us to the playoffs in the East..

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Yep its definitely not clear anyone on this roster will ever be a + defender but adding those players in that trade would increase their perimeter defense significantly as well as adding some decent shooting from NAW and Okeke and despite losing Loves offense make up some of it in the front court just having 2 legit lob threats for Sexton and Garland to have as bailout plans in Gordon and Hayes.
I understand your points, but I like Okeke to be a high level defender at least as good as Anunoby and Okeke was a better 3 point shooter and cutter in college so there is that as well.
I like Hayes to improve his rebounding which is/was the biggest knock and is really not that far away as a elite length and athlete / rim runner and high upside as a highly mobile defender which we need pretty badly. He is a legit 7' and more athletic than most guards so another season of defensive improvement makes him more than worth the trade here.
Gordon has never been a huge fav of mine because he thinks he is better than he is and does not deserve as much usage as ORL has gifted him, but he impacts the game with his motor and at worst the Cavs can flip him next summer for a late 21 1st if it doersnt work out.
Overall I think NAW was reduced to low impact usage as a rookie on that roster and would be better with Sexton or Garland and he did show a decent ability to run an offense in his 2nd season at VT when he stepped up and replaced Robinson so he is interchangeable and has better length than both of them.
I disagree this would be bad at all for this org to make long term moves like this unless of course adding 1 prospect at 5 is a better play in a weak draft.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#27 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:12 pm

You can't trade assets like that for a bunch of guys who aren't even guaranteed to start on a good team, and Gordon, who shouldn't start on a team that has Drummond.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#28 » by Stillwater » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:58 pm

jbk1234 wrote:You can't trade assets like that for a bunch of guys who aren't even guaranteed to start on a good team, and Gordon, who shouldn't start on a team that has Drummond.

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I dont think what was traded away is all that valuable in a trade really so there is that from my perspective.
I just think there is a chance this org might consider moves for players like this as opposed to just staying at 5.
If they want to keep the rebuild on schedule and roll out another no defense tank campaign for a top 10 pick in the 21 draft I can be on board as well, in fact i would prefer they keep the pick if I trusted they would make the right choice but I dont think they will
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#29 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:03 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:You can't trade assets like that for a bunch of guys who aren't even guaranteed to start on a good team, and Gordon, who shouldn't start on a team that has Drummond.

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I dont think what was traded away is all that valuable in a trade really so there is that from my perspective.
I just think there is a chance this org might consider moves for players like this as opposed to just staying at 5.
If they want to keep the rebuild on schedule and roll out another no defense tank campaign for a top 10 pick in the 21 draft I can be on board as well, in fact i would prefer they keep the pick if I trusted they would make the right choice but I dont think they will
You're starting lineup consists of Sexton, KPJ, Windler, Gordon and Drummond. That's three bad defenders, one decent defender, and one good one. Moreover, teams will still run the high PNR against Drummond and Sexton, and while having Gordon rotate over instead of Love will help a little, he's not some elite rim protector.

Offensively, teams will sag off of both Gordon and Drummond and the lane will be closed. This is still a lottery team.

Of the four players you traded for, you've got one guy starting. It's a really bad trade.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#30 » by Stillwater » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:55 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:You can't trade assets like that for a bunch of guys who aren't even guaranteed to start on a good team, and Gordon, who shouldn't start on a team that has Drummond.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I dont think what was traded away is all that valuable in a trade really so there is that from my perspective.
I just think there is a chance this org might consider moves for players like this as opposed to just staying at 5.
If they want to keep the rebuild on schedule and roll out another no defense tank campaign for a top 10 pick in the 21 draft I can be on board as well, in fact i would prefer they keep the pick if I trusted they would make the right choice but I dont think they will
You're starting lineup consists of Sexton, KPJ, Windler, Gordon and Drummond. That's three bad defenders, one decent defender, and one good one. Moreover, teams will still run the high PNR against Drummond and Sexton, and while having Gordon rotate over instead of Love will help a little, he's not some elite rim protector.

Offensively, teams will sag off of both Gordon and Drummond and the lane will be closed. This is still a lottery team.

Of the four players you traded for, you've got one guy starting. It's a really bad trade.

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Yeah you have to have some faith in player development to understand my thought process here.
The depth chart listing I provided in my org post about this trade is not a starting line up per say and there are flaws to every roster
including the one this trade produces... Its no big deal imo.
The truth is after my trade idea the team is better than now defensively on paper and has more options to score.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#31 » by jbk1234 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:00 am

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:I dont think what was traded away is all that valuable in a trade really so there is that from my perspective.
I just think there is a chance this org might consider moves for players like this as opposed to just staying at 5.
If they want to keep the rebuild on schedule and roll out another no defense tank campaign for a top 10 pick in the 21 draft I can be on board as well, in fact i would prefer they keep the pick if I trusted they would make the right choice but I dont think they will
You're starting lineup consists of Sexton, KPJ, Windler, Gordon and Drummond. That's three bad defenders, one decent defender, and one good one. Moreover, teams will still run the high PNR against Drummond and Sexton, and while having Gordon rotate over instead of Love will help a little, he's not some elite rim protector.

Offensively, teams will sag off of both Gordon and Drummond and the lane will be closed. This is still a lottery team.

Of the four players you traded for, you've got one guy starting. It's a really bad trade.

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Yeah you have to have some faith in player development to understand my thought process here.
The depth chart listing I provided in my org post about this trade is not a starting line up per say and there are flaws to every roster
including the one this trade produces... Its no big deal imo.
The truth is after my trade idea the team is better than now defensively on paper and has more options to score.
If that's the thought process, the Cavs are way overpaying.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#32 » by Stillwater » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:You're starting lineup consists of Sexton, KPJ, Windler, Gordon and Drummond. That's three bad defenders, one decent defender, and one good one. Moreover, teams will still run the high PNR against Drummond and Sexton, and while having Gordon rotate over instead of Love will help a little, he's not some elite rim protector.

Offensively, teams will sag off of both Gordon and Drummond and the lane will be closed. This is still a lottery team.

Of the four players you traded for, you've got one guy starting. It's a really bad trade.

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Yeah you have to have some faith in player development to understand my thought process here.
The depth chart listing I provided in my org post about this trade is not a starting line up per say and there are flaws to every roster
including the one this trade produces... Its no big deal imo.
The truth is after my trade idea the team is better than now defensively on paper and has more options to score.
If that's the thought process, the Cavs are way overpaying.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Only if your opinion is Hayes NAW and Okeke are not lottery level prospects which imo they all 3 are.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#33 » by jbk1234 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:04 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Yeah you have to have some faith in player development to understand my thought process here.
The depth chart listing I provided in my org post about this trade is not a starting line up per say and there are flaws to every roster
including the one this trade produces... Its no big deal imo.
The truth is after my trade idea the team is better than now defensively on paper and has more options to score.
If that's the thought process, the Cavs are way overpaying.

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Only if your opinion is Hayes NAW and Okeke are not lottery level prospects which imo they all 3 are.


Only Hayes was drafted in the lottery and none of them have played like lottery prospects. If they had, then I could see offering all of this up to obtain them. Frankly, if none of them have a good year this year, you could probably acquire them for late first round picks or seconds next summer.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#34 » by Stillwater » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:06 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:If that's the thought process, the Cavs are way overpaying.

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Only if your opinion is Hayes NAW and Okeke are not lottery level prospects which imo they all 3 are.


Only Hayes was drafted in the lottery and none of them have played like lottery prospects. If they had, then I could see offering all of this up to obtain them. Frankly, if none of them have a good year this year, you could probably acquire them for late first round picks or seconds next summer.

OK NAW was taken just after the lottery and is buried on the depth chart behind more accomplished options.
Okeke agreed to wait to sign his rookie deal and didnt play at all last season.
Yeah if none of them play well they could be cheaper and less desirable for sure whereas grabbing them now before they are fully developed you finish the development in your system before they are a more proven product for someone else and cost more.
Hayes was always a high upside rim runner imo and well worth the risk where he was picked in fact I doubt Griff would trade him under most circumstances this soon unless he was getting a floor stretcher like KLove to join Zion for a win now front court
I just think Okeke pre injury was a lottery pick and will be the best 3-4 defender from that draft class , NAW is less proven but is a versatile decent length 2 guard that can run the offense by committee and that is important given our current pg core.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#35 » by jbk1234 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:25 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Only if your opinion is Hayes NAW and Okeke are not lottery level prospects which imo they all 3 are.


Only Hayes was drafted in the lottery and none of them have played like lottery prospects. If they had, then I could see offering all of this up to obtain them. Frankly, if none of them have a good year this year, you could probably acquire them for late first round picks or seconds next summer.

OK NAW was taken just after the lottery and is buried on the depth chart behind more accomplished options.
Okeke agreed to wait to sign his rookie deal and didnt play at all last season.
Yeah if none of them play well they could be cheaper and less desirable for sure whereas grabbing them now before they are fully developed you finish the development in your system before they are a more proven product for someone else and cost more.
Hayes was always a high upside rim runner imo and well worth the risk where he was picked in fact I doubt Griff would trade him under most circumstances this soon unless he was getting a floor stretcher like KLove to join Zion for a win now front court
I just think Okeke pre injury was a lottery pick and will be the best 3-4 defender from that draft class , NAW is less proven but is a versatile decent length 2 guard that can run the offense by committee and that is important given our current pg core.
So we're overpaying for players with *potential* so we can develop them in our system before some other team ruins them?

Hard pass. We don't really have a system. There's no reason to believe we're better at developing talent than any other NBA team. After starting Sexton and Garland together for all those games, there's a decent argument that we're worse.

The Cavs had the second worst record in the NBA for two seasons in a row. You don't trade away picks when you're that bad. We don't have a clear-cut franchise player on the roster right now and you can't trade away the opportunity to add one.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#36 » by Stillwater » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:32 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Only Hayes was drafted in the lottery and none of them have played like lottery prospects. If they had, then I could see offering all of this up to obtain them. Frankly, if none of them have a good year this year, you could probably acquire them for late first round picks or seconds next summer.

OK NAW was taken just after the lottery and is buried on the depth chart behind more accomplished options.
Okeke agreed to wait to sign his rookie deal and didnt play at all last season.
Yeah if none of them play well they could be cheaper and less desirable for sure whereas grabbing them now before they are fully developed you finish the development in your system before they are a more proven product for someone else and cost more.
Hayes was always a high upside rim runner imo and well worth the risk where he was picked in fact I doubt Griff would trade him under most circumstances this soon unless he was getting a floor stretcher like KLove to join Zion for a win now front court
I just think Okeke pre injury was a lottery pick and will be the best 3-4 defender from that draft class , NAW is less proven but is a versatile decent length 2 guard that can run the offense by committee and that is important given our current pg core.
So we're overpaying for players with *potential* so we can develop them in our system before some other team ruins them?

Hard pass. We don't really have a system. There's no reason to believe we're better at developing talent than any other NBA team. After starting Sexton and Garland together for all those games, there's a decent argument that we're worse.

The Cavs had the second worst record in the NBA for two seasons in a row. You don't trade away picks when you're that bad. We don't have a clear-cut franchise player on the roster right now and you can't trade away the opportunity to add one.

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What is the difference between bringing in 3 high ceiling decent floor 2nd year prospects and 1 high ceiling prospect from a weak draft class? imo the difference is you got 3 shots at getting a legit starter and in this case probably have 2 with Hayes and Okeke longterm.
You are not optimistic at all I guess , I mean you are not trading away picks per say if the players you are getting back are better than the options you have at 5th overall and the future is a 22 lottery protected which wont transfer then 23 lightly protected if not transferred in 22 then unprotected in 24. Thats 1 pick that will likely be a mid 1st in 24 not a late lottery one in 23. I can understand that but the value is not really that far off at all. If anything you are probably undervaluing the players coming back and maybe overvaluing Loves on court value despite him being over 30 on a bad deal and not positive value for most trade partners
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#37 » by jbk1234 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:52 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:OK NAW was taken just after the lottery and is buried on the depth chart behind more accomplished options.
Okeke agreed to wait to sign his rookie deal and didnt play at all last season.
Yeah if none of them play well they could be cheaper and less desirable for sure whereas grabbing them now before they are fully developed you finish the development in your system before they are a more proven product for someone else and cost more.
Hayes was always a high upside rim runner imo and well worth the risk where he was picked in fact I doubt Griff would trade him under most circumstances this soon unless he was getting a floor stretcher like KLove to join Zion for a win now front court
I just think Okeke pre injury was a lottery pick and will be the best 3-4 defender from that draft class , NAW is less proven but is a versatile decent length 2 guard that can run the offense by committee and that is important given our current pg core.
So we're overpaying for players with *potential* so we can develop them in our system before some other team ruins them?

Hard pass. We don't really have a system. There's no reason to believe we're better at developing talent than any other NBA team. After starting Sexton and Garland together for all those games, there's a decent argument that we're worse.

The Cavs had the second worst record in the NBA for two seasons in a row. You don't trade away picks when you're that bad. We don't have a clear-cut franchise player on the roster right now and you can't trade away the opportunity to add one.

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What is the difference between bringing in 3 high ceiling decent floor 2nd year prospects and 1 high ceiling prospect from a weak draft class? imo the difference is you got 3 shots at getting a legit starter and in this case probably have 2 with Hayes and Okeke longterm.
You are not optimistic at all I guess , I mean you are not trading away picks per say if the players you are getting back are better than the options you have at 5th overall and the future is a 22 lottery protected which wont transfer then 23 lightly protected if not transferred in 22 then unprotected in 24. Thats 1 pick that will likely be a mid 1st in 24 not a late lottery one in 23. I can understand that but the value is not really that far off at all. If anything you are probably undervaluing the players coming back and maybe overvaluing Loves on court value despite him being over 30 on a bad deal and not positive value for most trade partners
Love was the only starter with a net positive RPM. It doesn't matter how are other teams value him. The Cavs shouldn't be adding value to move him.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#38 » by Stillwater » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:38 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:So we're overpaying for players with *potential* so we can develop them in our system before some other team ruins them?

Hard pass. We don't really have a system. There's no reason to believe we're better at developing talent than any other NBA team. After starting Sexton and Garland together for all those games, there's a decent argument that we're worse.

The Cavs had the second worst record in the NBA for two seasons in a row. You don't trade away picks when you're that bad. We don't have a clear-cut franchise player on the roster right now and you can't trade away the opportunity to add one.

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What is the difference between bringing in 3 high ceiling decent floor 2nd year prospects and 1 high ceiling prospect from a weak draft class? imo the difference is you got 3 shots at getting a legit starter and in this case probably have 2 with Hayes and Okeke longterm.
You are not optimistic at all I guess , I mean you are not trading away picks per say if the players you are getting back are better than the options you have at 5th overall and the future is a 22 lottery protected which wont transfer then 23 lightly protected if not transferred in 22 then unprotected in 24. Thats 1 pick that will likely be a mid 1st in 24 not a late lottery one in 23. I can understand that but the value is not really that far off at all. If anything you are probably undervaluing the players coming back and maybe overvaluing Loves on court value despite him being over 30 on a bad deal and not positive value for most trade partners
Love was the only starter with a net positive RPM. It doesn't matter how are other teams value him. The Cavs shouldn't be adding value to move him.

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I guess the biggest separation here is I am trying not too but am forced to question after the Garland selection this orgs drafting scouting dept.I have pretty much zero confidence in any of the top prospects in this class (expected to be available at 5) being any more impactiful regardless of fit or roster assembly long term than the players this trade brings JBB to work with[if Wiseman or Okongwu were available I'd rather pick them than make this trade] and it also is the one of 10 or so attempts I have thought about for awhile with Love possibly wanting to bail at some point if the team doesn't win this year and I think this trade or some close facsimile to it that the org might get something for KLove worth moving him. Personally think you are undervaluing the players coming in if you really think they giving away value for this return
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#39 » by jbk1234 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:28 pm

I like Vassell as well as Okongwu and Wiseman. He's a legitimate 3 and D guy and they're difficult to come by. If Ball or Edwards drops to 5, NY will be on the phone. I'm actually okay, not great but okay, just taking Ball if it's him. If you can move back to 8, pick up the Dallas first, and still nab Oyoro, that's fine as well.

If you still want Hayes or NAW, then you can probably trade for them with that pick next year.

As far as Love, he's already tried to bail and it didn't work. If the Cavs end up trading him for b or c list prospects, then so be it. But I'm not attaching picks. Love will retire here before I give up the better player and picks.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#40 » by Stillwater » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:I like Vassell as well as Okongwu and Wiseman. He's a legitimate 3 and D guy and they're difficult to come by. If Ball or Edwards drops to 5, NY will be on the phone. I'm actually okay, not great but okay, just taking Ball if it's him. If you can move back to 8, pick up the Dallas first, and still nab Oyoro, that's fine as well.

If you still want Hayes or NAW, then you can probably trade for them with that pick next year.

As far as Love, he's already tried to bail and it didn't work. If the Cavs end up trading him for b or c list prospects, then so be it. But I'm not attaching picks. Love will retire here before I give up the better player and picks.

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I think what you would do and what I would do despite not exactly the same here is probably not what this org will do unfortunately
I mean they absolutely should take Vassell at 5 for fit but he wont be considered the bpa upside in hardly any circumstance even though he has the highest floor of any wing in the draft but they wont consider it imo unless Ball Edwards Avdija and Wiseman are gone...and at that point I am taking Okongwu but they will probably take Okoro or Toppin...lol
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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