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Mock and big board thread take 2

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Revenged25
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#41 » by Revenged25 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:33 pm

As much as I love that Vassell is a more immediate plug & play guy due to already having his shooting on lock, I'd much rather we go for Okoro. I think Vassell is more of a pure SG than able ot play SF and even if we think KPJ can play SF, I think Okoro's physical strength is much more of a need as a perimeter defender than someone that can play the quicker more passing lane oriented defense, not that Okoro can't do that as well.

Honestly I would even be fine with Okongwu due to that fact that we do need defense above all else and Okongwu not only has a physical defensive ability, though lacking height, he also has the quickness to defend on the perimeter. If Myles Turner really is looking to potentially find another team just like Oladipo possibly, I think a Turner/Okongwu front court would be pretty damn good.
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#42 » by jbk1234 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:55 pm

Revenged25 wrote:As much as I love that Vassell is a more immediate plug & play guy due to already having his shooting on lock, I'd much rather we go for Okoro. I think Vassell is more of a pure SG than able ot play SF and even if we think KPJ can play SF, I think Okoro's physical strength is much more of a need as a perimeter defender than someone that can play the quicker more passing lane oriented defense, not that Okoro can't do that as well.

Honestly I would even be fine with Okongwu due to that fact that we do need defense above all else and Okongwu not only has a physical defensive ability, though lacking height, he also has the quickness to defend on the perimeter. If Myles Turner really is looking to potentially find another team just like Oladipo possibly, I think a Turner/Okongwu front court would be pretty damn good.
I get strong MKG vibes from Okoro. I feel like you could be waiting on a jump shot his entire career.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#43 » by Revenged25 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:48 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:As much as I love that Vassell is a more immediate plug & play guy due to already having his shooting on lock, I'd much rather we go for Okoro. I think Vassell is more of a pure SG than able ot play SF and even if we think KPJ can play SF, I think Okoro's physical strength is much more of a need as a perimeter defender than someone that can play the quicker more passing lane oriented defense, not that Okoro can't do that as well.

Honestly I would even be fine with Okongwu due to that fact that we do need defense above all else and Okongwu not only has a physical defensive ability, though lacking height, he also has the quickness to defend on the perimeter. If Myles Turner really is looking to potentially find another team just like Oladipo possibly, I think a Turner/Okongwu front court would be pretty damn good.
I get strong MKG vibes from Okoro. I feel like you could be waiting on a jump shot his entire career.

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He could be MKG, he could be OPJ, or he might max out as Jimmy Butler but I won't use that as a realistic expectation. OPJ came in with less scoring than what he's capable of now, still not great, but acceptable. With Garland, Sexton, KPJ, Love, and possibly Windler, I don't feel as hard pressed to find someone that can score, especially if they aren't the ones creating it themselves. If Vassell was more capable of creating his own shot as well as for others, then sure I'd take that plus the defense he has over Okoro, but he's someone that feels like he's better off playing off of players that can create shot opportunities for him. So at this point considering defense is our highest priority, I'd rather get someone that we know should be able to effectively guard even some of the elite perimeter players but needs to develop a shot than someone that should be a good two way player, but not an elite player on either side of the ball.
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#44 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:17 am

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:As much as I love that Vassell is a more immediate plug & play guy due to already having his shooting on lock, I'd much rather we go for Okoro. I think Vassell is more of a pure SG than able ot play SF and even if we think KPJ can play SF, I think Okoro's physical strength is much more of a need as a perimeter defender than someone that can play the quicker more passing lane oriented defense, not that Okoro can't do that as well.

Honestly I would even be fine with Okongwu due to that fact that we do need defense above all else and Okongwu not only has a physical defensive ability, though lacking height, he also has the quickness to defend on the perimeter. If Myles Turner really is looking to potentially find another team just like Oladipo possibly, I think a Turner/Okongwu front court would be pretty damn good.
I get strong MKG vibes from Okoro. I feel like you could be waiting on a jump shot his entire career.

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He could be MKG, he could be OPJ, or he might max out as Jimmy Butler but I won't use that as a realistic expectation. OPJ came in with less scoring than what he's capable of now, still not great, but acceptable. With Garland, Sexton, KPJ, Love, and possibly Windler, I don't feel as hard pressed to find someone that can score, especially if they aren't the ones creating it themselves. If Vassell was more capable of creating his own shot as well as for others, then sure I'd take that plus the defense he has over Okoro, but he's someone that feels like he's better off playing off of players that can create shot opportunities for him. So at this point considering defense is our highest priority, I'd rather get someone that we know should be able to effectively guard even some of the elite perimeter players but needs to develop a shot than someone that should be a good two way player, but not an elite player on either side of the ball.
Sounds like the Cavs might offer Iwundu the full MLE and dare the Magic to match. Which should help with defense. If Okongwu is there, I'm taking him. But, if it's between Vassell and Okoro, I'm going Vassell. Two-way players are always more valuable.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2020/10/24/cleveland-cavaliers-b-r-suggestion-wes-iwundu-fa-target-defense/

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#45 » by Stillwater » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:46 pm

Dont be surprised if Oturu with freakish hops shoots up late mocks. his stock is skyrocketed after hitting 70% of 3 point shots 104 out of 150 or so attempts granted its a empty gym workout probably but there are not many other prospects putting out that kind of surprise.and his ft% in 80s.
As far as Okongwu who is clearly in the range of 3-4 maybe cle at 5 was always about his bbiq more than anything on top of the athleticism.
I have confidence he can add that outside shot with success too just looking at his ft% which is better than iall the current options projected at 5 and at a higher attempt rate except Vassell who has a slightly higher shooters % there but on less attempts per.
I think the buzz draw with Okoro would be much higher if he was at least putting out some kind of shooting film , but the fact he isnt probably means he would only hurt his stock doing it.
https://www.startribune.com/ex-gophers-star-daniel-oturu-stands-out-during-virtual-nba-draft-combine/572842752/
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#46 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:41 pm

We're working out Toppin privately in Dayton.

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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#47 » by Stillwater » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:46 pm

jbk1234 wrote:We're working out Toppin privately in Dayton.

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hope its mixed news because hes in our local market and its really not Cavs private w/o
edit: he apparently is in New Jersey for workouts this week and CLE brass as well as other orgs will meet with him and some other prospects at the same location/ unknown what other prospects at this point. mentions Okoro and Avdija are in ATL for workouts for example
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/cleveland-cavaliers-to-work-out-obi-toppin-other-top-prospects-this-week-sources-say/ar-BB1apj96?ocid=uxbndlbing
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#48 » by Stillwater » Sun Nov 1, 2020 1:38 am

the lack of real data coming out from the pre draft process is depressing but here is a mock with some early changes based on some recent observations I have made and going largely on prospect knowledge from before the season was cut short.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/792260/
I have CLE getting lucky and Okongwu dropping to 5 , then have them buying Bostons 3rd 1st rounder at 30th to gamble on the offensive upside of the athletic wing defender Woodard
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#49 » by Stillwater » Tue Nov 3, 2020 3:13 am

so in this one which is a little off what i actually expect to happen as far as player valuations, I have Okoro (or Vassell)going 8th to CLE in a trade down with NY https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/793103/
I am not sold they value Okoro or Vassell beyond their defense enough to take either at 5 right now and the pick there in that situation with Avdija available AND both bigs gone in the top 4 makes me think they go Avdija for playmaking at 5th.
I prob would not and might opt for this trade but they will prob keep pick imo.
my hope remains Okongwu is available and gets the gig
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#50 » by Stillwater » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:44 am

Big board 2020
This is not my big board per say or how I would rank the propsects regardless of team...except for the top 4.
This is really just my opinion of what the Cavs bb probably is.
My take on current likely CLE big board based on overall anticipated NBA impact long term in the top 4 only meaning if 1 or more of them drops to 5th they take the top non fit prospect on their board over fit at 5 and after on the board where I have switched to factoring heavily on positional needs & team building with the idea all current under 25 players are part of the future in some role or another.
FYI I added several more prospects after the top range for purposes of targets that may be available throug 2nd round pick purchasing or that go UDFA.

1.Edwards - elite upside 2 way prospect on the wing esp with better shot selection and focus.
2.Okoro - elite defensive baseline high level thrashing finishing high upside w/ shooting range improvement
3.Wiseman - elite measureables baseline rim runner rim protector high upside if floor stretching is attained
4.Okongwu - high iq highly mobile defender elite athlete with solid near the basket offensive game and upside as a higher usage mid range shooter with clean jumper already in arsenal and so floor stretching also possible rather quickly.
-------
5.Avdija- playmaking 3-4 with upside offensively if shot improves due to a decent bbiq and some defensive upside make him a nice option at 5 for fit with current core if higher rated prospects taken.
6.Vassell- proto 3/d prospect with excellent defensive understanding and solid shooting ability from mid range and deep . Has the intangibles work ethic etc. Also has chip on shoulder being under appreciated by most mocks imo esp given his breakout season.
7.Halliburton- positional size true pg which CLE doesnt have really, defense is solid etc needs to speed up shot release but it goes in a lot.
8.Ball- only here due to star upside potential positional value being quite a bit better than currrent playmaking options on the roster but does show little interest or upside as a defender so hes after others above given the Cavs horrid defense.
9.Toppin- exceptional hops and decent shooter, but not a mobile defender and undersized at the 5 defensively.
overrated bbiq not a good passer etc.But can get buckets and finish easily above the rim.
10.Hayes- just too special of a floor general to be ranked lower despite CLE having so many guards.
11.Oturu- rebounder paint presence mobile defender rim runner who flashed a lot of shooting ability in recent workouts 70% from 3 in an open gym is a high % for a prospect otherwise not known for shooting from 3 at all in college.
12.Smith- high iq rim runner woth some floor stretching ability and interior defense...needs work defending outside paint though.
13.Achiuwa- freak athlete with enormous energizer defensive upside and finishing power. can play 3-5 and has a developing outside shot.
14.Bey.S- high level shooter with some iso ability but mostly 3/d without much defense otherwise would be ranked higher.
15.Williams- small sample in college but has size and baseline skill to be one of the better 3/d prospects in the draft(think Anunoby) if developed properly. Not a great ball handler or playmaker at all though.
16.Poku- skinny big prob perimeter big mostly with nice handles rare for a 7'er etc has iso shooting skills
17.Bey.T- elite athlete undersized 3-4 defender with some shooting ability but ltd arsenal offensively.
think Thybulle and Roberson with a splash of Brandon Clarke.
18.Nesmith- some injury concerns but a high level off ball prospect with intriguing high shooting % off catch.
Not much of a finisher or ball handler hurts stock a lot.
19.Hall J. (Moravian Prep)- excellent sleeper prospect sf with really solid shooting ability dirving slashing and defensive upside.
20.McDaniels- decent bbiq and scrappy defensive skill set with good handles and 3-4 upside offensively but seems a long ways away right now besides hanging out on perimeter including issue of frame not able to add weight etc.
21.Reed Jr.- exceptional defender at the 3-4 shot needs fixed but overall a solid prospect with a lot of it untapped
22.Ramsey- smooth athlete and deadeye shooter but meh IQ. needs coached up but is a decent defender as is etc.
23.Green- above average athlete at the 2-3 & underrated passer. skill is wip but solid off ball with some on ball and playmaker upside. good shooter good defender nothing elite.
24.Terry- another Garland type small needs time but outstanding shooting ability and court awareness for age.
25.Lewis- high motor high iq combo guard with some upside as a shooter can score at 3 levels. way lower than most teams boards will have him.
26.Hampton- speed and size needs time to develop jumper- boom bust imo
27.Stewart- stacked center with above average paint presence sim to TT 2nd jump etc. no shooting upside really
28.Quickley- undersized off ball wizard but has elite length and defensive upside as a result.
Solid athlete who was a pg in HS and can pass and see the floor well despite never ever passing with Cals green light to shoot it last season basically every time he got the rock.
29.Anthony- elite score first guard substantial star potential as a scorer and explisive finisher.
30.Hinton- on court coach / best rebounding wing in draft- motor motor motor. maybe a sleeper to be a Jimmy Butler type if shot % improves. Understanding of game on both sides of ball is impressive.
31.Woodard- no handles and no consistent shooting, but has a high explosive motor and upside
32.Alexander- best sg in country last season. elite off ball player and solid defender
33.Jones.M- dynamic scorer underrated athlete etc.
34.Maxey- high energy combo with 2 way upside and finishing ability. not a great shooter.
35.Mannion- pass first guard with some scoring ability but overall needs a lot of work on shot selection and defensively not so good.
36.Azubuike- ridiculous athlete and anthro cant stay on the floor in 4th but impact in paint is substantial.
37.Nnaji- solid project big but far away unless rumors of shooting improvement are real.
38.Flynn- best win now back up pg in draft for a contender... might be better than any floor gen on roster day 1
39.Jones.T- well ballanced pg prospect with sneaky atheticism best of the Jones boys.
40.Maledon- Clarkson with court vision...lol
41.Pritchard- will it transfer? beast FVV of the future if it does.
42.Simanic- stretch big with promising upside defeinitley a sleeper
43.Bolmaro- cedi level playmaker hustle defender has similar shooting % issues Cedi had in past.
44.Perry- banger with floor game and stretching ability but defensively is a bit undersized. Good athlete etc.
45.Tillman - playmaking undersized big whos shot needs work outside of close range. analytics darling but not a good fit in cle and only on this list out of respect for his impact in a small role.
46.Tillie- underrated as a defender{elite bbiq} floor stretcher but injury prone big time.
47.Riller- dynamo bench scorer no defense
48.Stevens- elite athletic defensive wing decent finishing abilty cant shoot.
49.Merrill- exceptional shooter good size to defend 2's win now role player is already 24
50.Tyree- exceptional athlete and highly impactful combo guard
51.Richards- rim runner rim protector no shooting ability at all.
52.Jones.Ty- freak explosive undersized small ball 5
53.Bane- elite shooter not much else
54.Wiley- rim protector decent athlete
55. Vit Krejci - wing playmaker with decent speed and iq
56. Stanley- explosive leaper and decent shooter but does not create for himself or anyone else yet.
57. Mane- positional size and court vision etc.
58. Scrubb- scorer from 3 levels against inferior competition.
59.Joe - chucker but has good size and maybe can get more efficient in time. decent bbiq
60.Harris(Nevada)- scoring machine and high energy guard with a lot of sleeper value for a win now bench prospect.

I am still hoping Okongwu gets the job myself.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Mock and big board thread take 2 

Post#51 » by Stillwater » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:00 am

my final big board in general and how I rank the prospects regardless or what team is picking:
Not doing a mock with trades ruling the day but here is a quick bb at the last minute
not a fan of this draft tbh but
there are some nice prospects here and there
1 Wiseman
2 Ball
3 Okongwu
4 Edwards
5 Okoro
6 Vassell
7 Achiuwa
8 Lewis
9 Avdija
10 Hayes
11 Pokusevski
12 Williams
13 Halliburton
14 Hampton
15 Smith
16 Anthony
17 Terry
18 Oturu
19 Toppin
20 M Jones
21 Hinton
22 Ramsey
23 Nesmith
24 Green
25 Stewart
26 Bey T
27 Alexander
28 Bey S
29 McDaniels
30 T Jones
31 Flynn
32 Bane
33 Azubuike
34 Pritchard
35 Reed
36 Merrill
37 Darling
38 Riller
39 Stevens
40 Hall
41 Maxey
42 Woodard
43 Nnaji
44. Simanic
45 Scrubb
46 Mannion
47 Martin
48 Simonovic
49 Maledon
50 Bolmaro
51 Joe
52 Perry
53 Harris
54 Stanley
55 Tyree
56 Harris
57 Krejci
58 Tyrq jones
59 Tillie
60 somebody I forgot
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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