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Off-season News

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JonFromVA
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#21 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:17 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
There's a difference between young guys developing in competitive settings and young guys suffering through multiple seasons getting run out of the gym. The latter can be, and usually is, counter productive.


If you want a more functional team at this point, it'd be Collin coming off the bench. He's the SG that lacks SG size, doesn't know how to make his teammates better, and has been clueless on D inspite of having decent tools. I'd rather put that decision off as long as possible and preferably trade him before feeling I have to go there; because no matter how good - 6th men have little value.

Dame and CJ have won a lot of games. I wouldn't mind getting to their level before worrying about how we might go further ...


I think I'd rather start Sexton to start the season. I'm not terribly optimistic that the end of last season was a sign of things to come so much as that part of the season where young players shine because they're playing other young guys and good teams are tapering. But I don't want this to become a QB battle where you keep vacillating back and forth. If you end up sending Sexton to the bench, that's where he stays unless another team wants to give good value for him. In his third season, he'll have had ample opportunity to do what the team expects of him, and if he can't get it done, then he can't get it done and the debate's over. If you start Garland to start the season, then every time he hits a rough patch it's going to be should've started Sexton. I'd like to avoid all that.


So, avoid the "QB controversy" and keep starting them both until it's clear one of them is struggling or we have a better option sitting on the bench.

These are young players and we need to show some patience and trust as long as they're not getting stubborn and continue to try to do what's asked of them. I don't think a benching would be the end of anything - if handled well, though. In other words, I wouldn't want to hone Collin to be a 6th man or Darius to be a backup point ... yeah, I'd rather trade them then do that ... but if we make it clear what we expect out of them and help them get there - they just might.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#22 » by Stillwater » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:28 am

There is no way DG comes out as the better option to run in place let alone run a group of vets.He is still just a boy in a mans league and was always going to take a long time for his body to catch up with his skillset.
The fear is he may never get there post injury. He will make a nice FVV type backup this season imo.
It is time some people realize he was never really "that guy" to begin with and the CLE scouting dept. are fools if they expected DG to be impactful in any way out of the gate , but the willingness to start him all season as a rookie leans toward their faith in him being more than they should have expected if not just being committed to tanking and player development . I am buying its the latter for now.
DG was never going to be that special not out of the gate anyway which to me suggests he was never a Sexton replacement at all...and we saw it all season he is a project from a physical standpoint.

Yes Sexton was and also is a project because his bbiq and his body both needed to play catch up and its evident for sure his body is already approaching peak levels for his frame and so if he continues his projection from an IQ standpoint with what he has been adding to his game albeit slower than most fans wanted in the area of playing within the offense instead of going beast mode,and some apparently are of the opinion the word "Never" is a fair assessment since the org felt the need to draft a less athletic but higher IQ guard in 19 which is laughable given Sextons unequalled work level,screams anything is possible with him including running a team and doing it well. I mean despite showing he can on several occasions run an offense by learning to take what the defense gives him last season DG is still getting more love as a distributor because he was hurt which also seems unlikely to be true the entire season.
Sexton is better period and unless he takes his foot off the gas has the higher upside and will blaze past garlands ceiling before garland ever gets to it if he ever does.
Cavs should be shopping DG asap imo unless he can turn himself into a flop artist that can make pinpoint passes in traffic and add 25 lbs of muscle
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:14 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If you want a more functional team at this point, it'd be Collin coming off the bench. He's the SG that lacks SG size, doesn't know how to make his teammates better, and has been clueless on D inspite of having decent tools. I'd rather put that decision off as long as possible and preferably trade him before feeling I have to go there; because no matter how good - 6th men have little value.

Dame and CJ have won a lot of games. I wouldn't mind getting to their level before worrying about how we might go further ...


I think I'd rather start Sexton to start the season. I'm not terribly optimistic that the end of last season was a sign of things to come so much as that part of the season where young players shine because they're playing other young guys and good teams are tapering. But I don't want this to become a QB battle where you keep vacillating back and forth. If you end up sending Sexton to the bench, that's where he stays unless another team wants to give good value for him. In his third season, he'll have had ample opportunity to do what the team expects of him, and if he can't get it done, then he can't get it done and the debate's over. If you start Garland to start the season, then every time he hits a rough patch it's going to be should've started Sexton. I'd like to avoid all that.


So, avoid the "QB controversy" and keep starting them both until it's clear one of them is struggling or we have a better option sitting on the bench.

These are young players and we need to show some patience and trust as long as they're not getting stubborn and continue to try to do what's asked of them. I don't think a benching would be the end of anything - if handled well, though. In other words, I wouldn't want to hone Collin to be a 6th man or Darius to be a backup point ... yeah, I'd rather trade them then do that ... but if we make it clear what we expect out of them and help them get there - they just might.
They're both worse and the team's worse when the play together. It's somehow worse than trying to play Kyrie and Dion in the same back court which I would not have thought possible until midway through last season.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#24 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:20 am

Stillwater wrote:There is no way DG comes out as the better option to run in place let alone run a group of vets.He is still just a boy in a mans league and was always going to take a long time for his body to catch up with his skillset.
The fear is he may never get there post injury. He will make a nice FVV type backup this season imo.
It is time some people realize he was never really "that guy" to begin with and the CLE scouting dept. are fools if they expected DG to be impactful in any way out of the gate , but the willingness to start him all season as a rookie leans toward their faith in him being more than they should have expected if not just being committed to tanking and player development . I am buying its the latter for now.
DG was never going to be that special not out of the gate anyway which to me suggests he was never a Sexton replacement at all...and we saw it all season he is a project from a physical standpoint.

Yes Sexton was and also is a project because his bbiq and his body both needed to play catch up and its evident for sure his body is already approaching peak levels for his frame and so if he continues his projection from an IQ standpoint with what he has been adding to his game albeit slower than most fans wanted in the area of playing within the offense instead of going beast mode,and some apparently are of the opinion the word "Never" is a fair assessment since the org felt the need to draft a less athletic but higher IQ guard in 19 which is laughable given Sextons unequalled work level,screams anything is possible with him including running a team and doing it well. I mean despite showing he can on several occasions run an offense by learning to take what the defense gives him last season DG is still getting more love as a distributor because he was hurt which also seems unlikely to be true the entire season.
Sexton is better period and unless he takes his foot off the gas has the higher upside and will blaze past garlands ceiling before garland ever gets to it if he ever does.
Cavs should be shopping DG asap imo unless he can turn himself into a flop artist that can make pinpoint passes in traffic and add 25 lbs of muscle
I think Sexton should start, I don't think Garland should start next to him, and I've said as much. But it's time to retire the work ethic talking point as if it's a meaningful substitute for what he's failing to do on the floor and in games. This is his third year. It's the show me year. He will, or he won't.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#25 » by Stillwater » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:03 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There is no way DG comes out as the better option to run in place let alone run a group of vets.He is still just a boy in a mans league and was always going to take a long time for his body to catch up with his skillset.
The fear is he may never get there post injury. He will make a nice FVV type backup this season imo.
It is time some people realize he was never really "that guy" to begin with and the CLE scouting dept. are fools if they expected DG to be impactful in any way out of the gate , but the willingness to start him all season as a rookie leans toward their faith in him being more than they should have expected if not just being committed to tanking and player development . I am buying its the latter for now.
DG was never going to be that special not out of the gate anyway which to me suggests he was never a Sexton replacement at all...and we saw it all season he is a project from a physical standpoint.

Yes Sexton was and also is a project because his bbiq and his body both needed to play catch up and its evident for sure his body is already approaching peak levels for his frame and so if he continues his projection from an IQ standpoint with what he has been adding to his game albeit slower than most fans wanted in the area of playing within the offense instead of going beast mode,and some apparently are of the opinion the word "Never" is a fair assessment since the org felt the need to draft a less athletic but higher IQ guard in 19 which is laughable given Sextons unequalled work level,screams anything is possible with him including running a team and doing it well. I mean despite showing he can on several occasions run an offense by learning to take what the defense gives him last season DG is still getting more love as a distributor because he was hurt which also seems unlikely to be true the entire season.
Sexton is better period and unless he takes his foot off the gas has the higher upside and will blaze past garlands ceiling before garland ever gets to it if he ever does.
Cavs should be shopping DG asap imo unless he can turn himself into a flop artist that can make pinpoint passes in traffic and add 25 lbs of muscle
I think Sexton should start, I don't think Garland should start next to him, and I've said as much. But it's time to retire the work ethic talking point as if it's a meaningful substitute for what he's failing to do on the floor and in games. This is his third year. It's the show me year. He will, or he won't.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

His work ethic is why there is a long road untraveled before his ceiling is reached so im more than willing to continue to buy in
He does need to continue his trajectory because hes still way off from being a allstar level guard , but hes already shown enough improvement since being drafted to believe his work ethic is why hes nowhere near finished and show you what exactly? Hes shown me hes a sponge from day 1 and regardless of not being a floor general for much of that time its really not like anyone was asking him too last season playing the fat rook next to him that was supposed to be the true pg.
At this point dg is trash until proven otherwise and its Sextons job to lose even if this org is dumb enough to put them on the court together and expect to just outscore everyone
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
jbk1234
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#26 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There is no way DG comes out as the better option to run in place let alone run a group of vets.He is still just a boy in a mans league and was always going to take a long time for his body to catch up with his skillset.
The fear is he may never get there post injury. He will make a nice FVV type backup this season imo.
It is time some people realize he was never really "that guy" to begin with and the CLE scouting dept. are fools if they expected DG to be impactful in any way out of the gate , but the willingness to start him all season as a rookie leans toward their faith in him being more than they should have expected if not just being committed to tanking and player development . I am buying its the latter for now.
DG was never going to be that special not out of the gate anyway which to me suggests he was never a Sexton replacement at all...and we saw it all season he is a project from a physical standpoint.

Yes Sexton was and also is a project because his bbiq and his body both needed to play catch up and its evident for sure his body is already approaching peak levels for his frame and so if he continues his projection from an IQ standpoint with what he has been adding to his game albeit slower than most fans wanted in the area of playing within the offense instead of going beast mode,and some apparently are of the opinion the word "Never" is a fair assessment since the org felt the need to draft a less athletic but higher IQ guard in 19 which is laughable given Sextons unequalled work level,screams anything is possible with him including running a team and doing it well. I mean despite showing he can on several occasions run an offense by learning to take what the defense gives him last season DG is still getting more love as a distributor because he was hurt which also seems unlikely to be true the entire season.
Sexton is better period and unless he takes his foot off the gas has the higher upside and will blaze past garlands ceiling before garland ever gets to it if he ever does.
Cavs should be shopping DG asap imo unless he can turn himself into a flop artist that can make pinpoint passes in traffic and add 25 lbs of muscle
I think Sexton should start, I don't think Garland should start next to him, and I've said as much. But it's time to retire the work ethic talking point as if it's a meaningful substitute for what he's failing to do on the floor and in games. This is his third year. It's the show me year. He will, or he won't.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

His work ethic is why there is a long road untraveled before his ceiling is reached so im more than willing to continue to buy in
He does need to continue his trajectory because hes still way off from being a allstar level guard , but hes already shown enough improvement since being drafted to believe his work ethic is why hes nowhere near finished and show you what exactly? Hes shown me hes a sponge from day 1 and regardless of not being a floor general for much of that time its really not like anyone was asking him too last season playing the fat rook next to him that was supposed to be the true pg.
At this point dg is trash until proven otherwise and its Sextons job to lose even if this org is dumb enough to put them on the court together and expect to just outscore everyone


I stand by what I said. He's a guard not a big man. He needs to be putting together a more complete package on the court by his third season in the NBA.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#27 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I think I'd rather start Sexton to start the season. I'm not terribly optimistic that the end of last season was a sign of things to come so much as that part of the season where young players shine because they're playing other young guys and good teams are tapering. But I don't want this to become a QB battle where you keep vacillating back and forth. If you end up sending Sexton to the bench, that's where he stays unless another team wants to give good value for him. In his third season, he'll have had ample opportunity to do what the team expects of him, and if he can't get it done, then he can't get it done and the debate's over. If you start Garland to start the season, then every time he hits a rough patch it's going to be should've started Sexton. I'd like to avoid all that.


So, avoid the "QB controversy" and keep starting them both until it's clear one of them is struggling or we have a better option sitting on the bench.

These are young players and we need to show some patience and trust as long as they're not getting stubborn and continue to try to do what's asked of them. I don't think a benching would be the end of anything - if handled well, though. In other words, I wouldn't want to hone Collin to be a 6th man or Darius to be a backup point ... yeah, I'd rather trade them then do that ... but if we make it clear what we expect out of them and help them get there - they just might.
They're both worse and the team's worse when the play together. It's somehow worse than trying to play Kyrie and Dion in the same back court which I would not have thought possible until midway through last season.


I'm just not sure why your in such a rush to close the book on these guys based on what happened last year. Maybe if Covid hit, we might have something more to go on with these guys under JBB; but even then - young players evolve quickly.

We need to see what we've got, then reset our expectations appropriately.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#28 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:31 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
So, avoid the "QB controversy" and keep starting them both until it's clear one of them is struggling or we have a better option sitting on the bench.

These are young players and we need to show some patience and trust as long as they're not getting stubborn and continue to try to do what's asked of them. I don't think a benching would be the end of anything - if handled well, though. In other words, I wouldn't want to hone Collin to be a 6th man or Darius to be a backup point ... yeah, I'd rather trade them then do that ... but if we make it clear what we expect out of them and help them get there - they just might.
They're both worse and the team's worse when the play together. It's somehow worse than trying to play Kyrie and Dion in the same back court which I would not have thought possible until midway through last season.


I'm just not sure why your in such a rush to close the book on these guys based on what happened last year. Maybe if Covid hit, we might have something more to go on with these guys under JBB; but even then - young players evolve quickly.

We need to see what we've got, then reset our expectations appropriately.


To be clear, I'm closing the book on the two of them being in the same backcourt together, not as individual players. The reason I'm do so is because there's no reason to believe it will ever work. It's not a situation where it kind of didn't work but you saw some good things. There were no good things, they made each others' flaws even worse, and the team was a total dumpster fire with them both on the court.

We had the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA. On offense it was two guys playing keep away from each other, driving into the paint without a plan B, and then either firing up a desperation shot, getting blocked or dumping it off to TT who'd then pump fake a dozen times. Awful defense, awful offense, but what's not to like?
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:07 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:They're both worse and the team's worse when the play together. It's somehow worse than trying to play Kyrie and Dion in the same back court which I would not have thought possible until midway through last season.


I'm just not sure why your in such a rush to close the book on these guys based on what happened last year. Maybe if Covid hit, we might have something more to go on with these guys under JBB; but even then - young players evolve quickly.

We need to see what we've got, then reset our expectations appropriately.


To be clear, I'm closing the book on the two of them being in the same backcourt together, not as individual players. The reason I'm do so is because there's no reason to believe it will ever work. It's not a situation where it kind of didn't work but you saw some good things. There were no good things, they made each others' flaws even worse, and the team was a total dumpster fire with them both on the court.

We had the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA. On offense it was two guys playing keep away from each other, driving into the paint without a plan B, and then either firing up a desperation shot, getting blocked or dumping it off to TT who'd then pump fake a dozen times. Awful defense, awful offense, but what's not to like?


No reason? I can think of 6 off the top of my head: new season, new coach, overwhelmed rook coming off an injury, very young players, the Beilein rebellion, and who knows maybe Kevin Love and/or Andre Drummond might try for JBB.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:31 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm just not sure why your in such a rush to close the book on these guys based on what happened last year. Maybe if Covid hit, we might have something more to go on with these guys under JBB; but even then - young players evolve quickly.

We need to see what we've got, then reset our expectations appropriately.


To be clear, I'm closing the book on the two of them being in the same backcourt together, not as individual players. The reason I'm do so is because there's no reason to believe it will ever work. It's not a situation where it kind of didn't work but you saw some good things. There were no good things, they made each others' flaws even worse, and the team was a total dumpster fire with them both on the court.

We had the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA. On offense it was two guys playing keep away from each other, driving into the paint without a plan B, and then either firing up a desperation shot, getting blocked or dumping it off to TT who'd then pump fake a dozen times. Awful defense, awful offense, but what's not to like?


No reason? I can think of 6 off the top of my head: new season, new coach, overwhelmed rook coming off an injury, very young players, the Beilein rebellion, and who knows maybe Kevin Love and/or Andre Drummond might try for JBB.


None of those things really address the fundamental problem which is they're too undersized to play together defensively and their offensive flaws are only further exacerbated while playing with each other. I think you could put any group of players 3-5 on the floor with them, and have them play under any coach you want, and the results aren't going to be pretty. Obviously, I don't run the organization so what I think isn't all that important, but that's the way I see it.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#31 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:25 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
To be clear, I'm closing the book on the two of them being in the same backcourt together, not as individual players. The reason I'm do so is because there's no reason to believe it will ever work. It's not a situation where it kind of didn't work but you saw some good things. There were no good things, they made each others' flaws even worse, and the team was a total dumpster fire with them both on the court.

We had the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA. On offense it was two guys playing keep away from each other, driving into the paint without a plan B, and then either firing up a desperation shot, getting blocked or dumping it off to TT who'd then pump fake a dozen times. Awful defense, awful offense, but what's not to like?


No reason? I can think of 6 off the top of my head: new season, new coach, overwhelmed rook coming off an injury, very young players, the Beilein rebellion, and who knows maybe Kevin Love and/or Andre Drummond might try for JBB.


None of those things really address the fundamental problem which is they're too undersized to play together defensively and their offensive flaws are only further exacerbated while playing with each other. I think you could put any group of players 3-5 on the floor with them, and have them play under any coach you want, and the results aren't going to be pretty. Obviously, I don't run the organization so what I think isn't all that important, but that's the way I see it.


Odd, I see a very direct correlation between all the things I mentioned and the chances of Collin and Darius meshing together better both defensively and offensively.

There's no guarantees or timeline for change, but change happens all the time.

Heck, it started happening the moment JBB took over the team which alone should tell you something.

Speaking of something ... Portland's best defense with the Lillard/McCollum backcourt was 2 years ago when they finished 8th.

Apparently they weren't too undersized to play together that season?

Otoh, they finished 28th this season.

Dame and CJ are the constants, though, so ... what's the difference between 8th and 28th if it isn't their "undersized backcourt" ?

I'm not picking on you ... I just hate absolutes, and this is an example why. It's not predictive - it's just meant to show that even for much older players like Lillard and McCollum things can change drastically for various reasons beyond them.

2 years of sucking may seem like a lifetime, but it's just a stepping stone in the development path for players who in any other Pro league would still be developing in College or the Minor Leagues.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#32 » by Stillwater » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:59 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I think Sexton should start, I don't think Garland should start next to him, and I've said as much. But it's time to retire the work ethic talking point as if it's a meaningful substitute for what he's failing to do on the floor and in games. This is his third year. It's the show me year. He will, or he won't.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

His work ethic is why there is a long road untraveled before his ceiling is reached so im more than willing to continue to buy in
He does need to continue his trajectory because hes still way off from being a allstar level guard , but hes already shown enough improvement since being drafted to believe his work ethic is why hes nowhere near finished and show you what exactly? Hes shown me hes a sponge from day 1 and regardless of not being a floor general for much of that time its really not like anyone was asking him too last season playing the fat rook next to him that was supposed to be the true pg.
At this point dg is trash until proven otherwise and its Sextons job to lose even if this org is dumb enough to put them on the court together and expect to just outscore everyone


I stand by what I said. He's a guard not a big man. He needs to be putting together a more complete package on the court by his third season in the NBA.

and his work in the offseason will show itself Im sure
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
JonFromVA
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#33 » by JonFromVA » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:22 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:His work ethic is why there is a long road untraveled before his ceiling is reached so im more than willing to continue to buy in
He does need to continue his trajectory because hes still way off from being a allstar level guard , but hes already shown enough improvement since being drafted to believe his work ethic is why hes nowhere near finished and show you what exactly? Hes shown me hes a sponge from day 1 and regardless of not being a floor general for much of that time its really not like anyone was asking him too last season playing the fat rook next to him that was supposed to be the true pg.
At this point dg is trash until proven otherwise and its Sextons job to lose even if this org is dumb enough to put them on the court together and expect to just outscore everyone


I stand by what I said. He's a guard not a big man. He needs to be putting together a more complete package on the court by his third season in the NBA.


and his work in the offseason will show itself Im sure


I don't doubt Collin's work-ethic, I just wonder what he's been able to work on given the pandemic.

There's some YouTube videos of Darius working out this Summer, and they're doing some drills and some 2v2 and counting down every turn so he doesn't just stand there dribbling the ball. It's better than just shooting shots in a gym for a player who needs to improve his live ball shooting and finishing; but it's also limited. For instance, a lot of combo guards will develop an effective 2-man game with another player on the team; but a point-guard needs to know where the other 3 are on the floor. Can't simulate that playing 2v2.

Hopefully they're watching a lot of tape and breaking down their decision making and watching other guards to learn their tricks and/or their tendencies. That's something they can even be doing with Cavs staff over a video call if the league allows it. That's helpful too, but they still have to take that the next step and see those things in live 5v5.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#34 » by Stillwater » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:12 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I stand by what I said. He's a guard not a big man. He needs to be putting together a more complete package on the court by his third season in the NBA.


and his work in the offseason will show itself Im sure


I don't doubt Collin's work-ethic, I just wonder what he's been able to work on given the pandemic.

There's some YouTube videos of Darius working out this Summer, and they're doing some drills and some 2v2 and counting down every turn so he doesn't just stand there dribbling the ball. It's better than just shooting shots in a gym for a player who needs to improve his live ball shooting and finishing; but it's also limited. For instance, a lot of combo guards will develop an effective 2-man game with another player on the team; but a point-guard needs to know where the other 3 are on the floor. Can't simulate that playing 2v2.

Hopefully they're watching a lot of tape and breaking down their decision making and watching other guards to learn their tricks and/or their tendencies. That's something they can even be doing with Cavs staff over a video call if the league allows it. That's helpful too, but they still have to take that the next step and see those things in live 5v5.
right covid killed any chance of improvement in a team setting so no matter what any of them worked in in the long hiatus it wont show up immediately. However what i am always referring too with his work has to do with the time he spends on his own repping and getting his do it yourself skillset to max peak levels where he can take over a 4th quarter.
Hes obviously added significantly in the weight room so i think his biggest improvement will be seen defensively, and tbh if this org sees a lot of passing and true pg skill out of dg in the next couple months he will probably start at the 1 with Collin playing next to him as the 1sr option scorer.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#35 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:06 pm

Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#36 » by Stillwater » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:44 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.

idk man hes mr analytics and it hasnt worked , sure didnt this season in the bubble.
yes I understand he has more of a resume.
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#37 » by JonFromVA » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.

idk man hes mr analytics and it hasnt worked , sure didnt this season in the bubble.
yes I understand he has more of a resume.


That may very well be how Dan sees it too, but finding a way to win 50+ games most of the time is "working".

I mean, it's not like Morey wanted to play a 6'6" Center ... he was forced to make a terrible trade for Westbrook by the owner, and Clint Capela couldn't fix the floor spacing that move broke.
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#38 » by jbk1234 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:55 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.
So you want to sign the GM who traded for an old CP3, signed him to a giant contract when he was even older, turned around and sold the farm to swap him for Westbrook, who is on an even worst contract and didn't fit with Harden, a year later, and when that didn't work, and the organization was beyond repair, stepped down?

That's going to be a hard pass from me. I can't even name the last good player Morey drafted.

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Re: Off-season News 

Post#39 » by JonFromVA » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:11 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.
So you want to sign the GM who traded for an old CP3, signed him to a giant contract when he was even older, turned around and sold the farm to swap him for Westbrook, who is on an even worst contract and didn't fit with Harden, a year later, and when that didn't work, and the organization was beyond repair, stepped down?

That's going to be a hard pass from me. I can't even name the last good player Morey drafted.

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He built winners ... Koby? .. 19 wins 2 years straight, 3 coaches, couldn't even fire Longabardi.

All things relative I'm thinking ...
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Re: Off-season News 

Post#40 » by jbk1234 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:59 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Well, with Daryl Morey parting ways with the Rockets, Dan Gilbert has the opportunity to really leverage his money without tax implications and show that he thinks of his GM as something other than the guy who takes care of the boring stuff while he makes the big decisions.

Which isn't to say I don't like Koby Altman, but he's still trying to prove he knows how to build a team and run a draft board; while Morey has consistently found ways to field a contender.

Technically, Dan could have both by installing Morey as team President of BB operations, something he considered with Chauncey Billups except Morey actually has the credentials for the job.
So you want to sign the GM who traded for an old CP3, signed him to a giant contract when he was even older, turned around and sold the farm to swap him for Westbrook, who is on an even worst contract and didn't fit with Harden, a year later, and when that didn't work, and the organization was beyond repair, stepped down?

That's going to be a hard pass from me. I can't even name the last good player Morey drafted.

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He built winners ... Koby? .. 19 wins 2 years straight, 3 coaches, couldn't even fire Longabardi.

All things relative I'm thinking ...
Wasn't Koby the GM in LBJ's last year? When LBJ left, the Cavs were an old team whose window had closed. You can argue that he should've taken Mikal Bridges over Sexton but I'm not terribly impressed with anyone taken after Garland. Maybe PJ Washington?

But KPJ looks like a steal at 30 and Windler is the most sought after player on the roster. He's also done a solid job trading players who had no future here for picks and extending guys like Nance and Cedi to reasonable deals. He overpaid Love but losing all three of you big three in 12 months would've been a tough pill to swallow.

I kind of like the shape we're in with $40M in expiring contracts heading into a big FA summer.

In terms of coaches, can you say for sure that Altman extended Lue and hired Beilein? Because if I had to guess that was Gilbert.

If there was one thing that you can really question, it was the Kyrie trade and whether he should've told Ainge to put Tatum on the table rather than the Brooklyn pick or get out. But that was a pretty difficult scenario to negotiate a trade under. I find it curious that theres been no report as to what the second best offer was.

I think he's done a pretty solid job.

Morey won one trade, he won it big, and has taken Ls since. He left his team with a second mortgage in terms of draft capital owed and no cap space whatsoever.

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It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.

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