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If Drummond opts out

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If Drummond opts out 

Post#1 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:14 am

FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?

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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#2 » by Revenged25 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:43 pm

jbk1234 wrote:FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?

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To have capspace if Drummond would opt out, they would waive every cap hold they would have leaving them 28 million in cap space, if the cap does go to 117 mil still, to work with and at least 3 spots to fill. If they decide to bring Tristan back, let's say that's 9-10 mil/yr leaving them with 18-19 mil. Not sure who they could sign, what salaries they could take on, etc. Maybe tossing in Exum or someone similar would get them to the 28-29 mil range for contracts which is where we were looking for Drummond trades to happen at.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#3 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:30 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app


To have capspace if Drummond would opt out, they would waive every cap hold they would have leaving them 28 million in cap space, if the cap does go to 117 mil still, to work with and at least 3 spots to fill. If they decide to bring Tristan back, let's say that's 9-10 mil/yr leaving them with 18-19 mil. Not sure who they could sign, what salaries they could take on, etc. Maybe tossing in Exum or someone similar would get them to the 28-29 mil range for contracts which is where we were looking for Drummond trades to happen at.
I really don't want to bring TT back at that number at least not over multiple years. He's not giving us what we need out of that position. He really should come off the bench most of the time. Frankly, I'll be shocked if another team offers him more than the full MLE. In fact, it would not surprise me to see him play on a $5M one-year deal if he doesn't sign with the Cavs given the current market.

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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#4 » by JonFromVA » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:15 pm

jbk1234 wrote:FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?


I'd be looking for players with potential in the 23 to 26 range that are falling through the cracks of free-agency due to Covid/financial/uncertainty.

We kind of did this at almost no cost with Jordan Bell, but if we had some money, hopefully we could reach higher.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#5 » by jbk1234 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:27 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?


I'd be looking for players with potential in the 23 to 26 range that are falling through the cracks of free-agency due to Covid/financial/uncertainty.

We kind of did this at almost no cost with Jordan Bell, but if we had some money, hopefully we could reach higher.


Ingram is the only guy who even arguably qualifies, he's a health risk, and the Pelicans would match.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/top-25-nba-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#6 » by Stillwater » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:49 pm

if he does opt out he is officially the stupidest pro athlete since Narlens Noel esp given he will nver get the same payday during a pandemic regardless of what he or his agent expect toget for his actual game reps.
I like him but not at anything close to his current salary and I doubt the leagues gms feel much differently.
I think if he did opt out for instance the Cavs will count that as a blessing to sit on cap space until the revenue starts back up again in 22 or 23
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#7 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:31 am

Stillwater wrote:if he does opt out he is officially the stupidest pro athlete since Narlens Noel esp given he will nver get the same payday during a pandemic regardless of what he or his agent expect toget for his actual game reps.
I like him but not at anything close to his current salary and I doubt the leagues gms feel much differently.
I think if he did opt out for instance the Cavs will count that as a blessing to sit on cap space until the revenue starts back up again in 22 or 23
He'd have to have a team like the Hornets or Knicks with a deal in hand. He's not going back to Detroit. The Hawks have Capella. He's not opting out of $34M to sign for the MLE.

One things that does complicate matters a bit is the possibility of a 40% escrow for this season. If you start from a place of only making 60% of your salary this season than guaranteed future dollars become far more valuable by comparison.

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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#8 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:14 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:FWIW I put the odds of this happening at about 2% but his agents appear to be floating it as a possibility due to the current extension talks being unsuccessful.

However, if we entertain the idea, what would you like the Cavs to do with the cap space?

Trade it for picks, prospects, and bad deals?

Sign the best players they can to long, team-friendly deals?

Overpay on one-year deals so they can trade or use the space next summer?


I'd be looking for players with potential in the 23 to 26 range that are falling through the cracks of free-agency due to Covid/financial/uncertainty.

We kind of did this at almost no cost with Jordan Bell, but if we had some money, hopefully we could reach higher.


Ingram is the only guy who even arguably qualifies, he's a health risk, and the Pelicans would match.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/top-25-nba-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason


The trick in that age group is finding a player that's just about to breakout or that just needs a new team or system to breakout; but is not considered especially interesting to most.

So while Ingram has breakout potential, it's expected from him, and he will be much harder to get - unless the Pels just can't afford him.

There are some terrific shooters in that list, like Bertans, Bogdonivic, and we never should had let him go - Joe.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#9 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:15 am

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'd be looking for players with potential in the 23 to 26 range that are falling through the cracks of free-agency due to Covid/financial/uncertainty.

We kind of did this at almost no cost with Jordan Bell, but if we had some money, hopefully we could reach higher.


Ingram is the only guy who even arguably qualifies, he's a health risk, and the Pelicans would match.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/top-25-nba-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason


The trick in that age group is finding a player that's just about to breakout or that just needs a new team or system to breakout; but is not considered especially interesting to most.

So while Ingram has breakout potential, it's expected from him, and he will be much harder to get - unless the Pels just can't afford him.

There are some terrific shooters in that list, like Bertans, Bogdonivic, and we never should had let him go - Joe.
I'm not signing two versions of K. Love to big money. This team can't get stops. No more offense-only players.

Unless we trade both Sexton and Garland, we're always going to have one bad defender on the roster. Two for as long as Love is on the roster. That's the limit for a good starting lineup. Once you put that third bad defender on the floor, you're a bad defensive team.

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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#10 » by UnFadeable21 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:42 pm

Trade Drummond for Gordon Hayward

Pair up Hayward with Love. Resign Thompson

Sexton
Porter
Hayward
Love
Thompson

Garland
Osman
Bell
Nance

Could definitely compete in the East!
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#11 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:47 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Ingram is the only guy who even arguably qualifies, he's a health risk, and the Pelicans would match.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/top-25-nba-free-agents-2020-nba-offseason


The trick in that age group is finding a player that's just about to breakout or that just needs a new team or system to breakout; but is not considered especially interesting to most.

So while Ingram has breakout potential, it's expected from him, and he will be much harder to get - unless the Pels just can't afford him.

There are some terrific shooters in that list, like Bertans, Bogdonivic, and we never should had let him go - Joe.
I'm not signing two versions of K. Love to big money. This team can't get stops. No more offense-only players.

Unless we trade both Sexton and Garland, we're always going to have one bad defender on the roster. Two for as long as Love is on the roster. That's the limit for a good starting lineup. Once you put that third bad defender on the floor, you're a bad defensive team.


We're already an All-Time Bad defensive team ... there's a pretty good chance that adding a merely bad defensive player will improve it.

Take Bertans for instance ... the Washington Basketball Club was right there neck and neck with us to the bitter end for worst defense, and in fact they were slightly worse with Bertans on the floor, but they were +7.1 pp100 better on offense.

If for some reason he was available on the cheap? I wouldn't hesitate to sign him.

Job #1 for the Cavs should be to get the offense working. It raises the trade value of our players, it helps us attract players, it entertains the fans, and it will help the team start winning games.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#12 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:04 pm

UnFadeable21 wrote:Trade Drummond for Gordon Hayward

Pair up Hayward with Love. Resign Thompson

Sexton
Porter
Hayward
Love
Thompson

Garland
Osman
Bell
Nance

Could definitely compete in the East!


TT was 42nd among centers as far as RPM goes (-.92). His overall box numbers were far worse. He shouldn't be starting for the Cavs. I'm fine trading Hayward for Drummond, but TT needs to get paid like a bench player and come off the bench if he's staying in Cleveland. There are a bunch of FA centers who I'd rather give that money to.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#13 » by UnFadeable21 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:08 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:Trade Drummond for Gordon Hayward

Pair up Hayward with Love. Resign Thompson

Sexton
Porter
Hayward
Love
Thompson

Garland
Osman
Bell
Nance

Could definitely compete in the East!


TT was 42nd among centers as far as RPM goes (-.92). His overall box numbers were far worse. He shouldn't be starting for the Cavs. I'm fine trading Hayward for Drummond, but TT needs to get paid like a bench player and come off the bench if he's staying in Cleveland. There are a bunch of FA centers who I'd rather give that money to.


Agreed, depends how much he wants to get paid.

Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks were bringing up Hayward for Drummond on their podcast yesterday.

Hayward and Love would be fun if both guys are healthy.


"The buzz that I’m hearing is like the smoke, the smoke indicating that something is happening. I’m not sure what’s up, but I don’t think it’s a lock that Gordon Hayward is on the Celtics next year."

- Zach Lowe

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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#14 » by jbk1234 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:09 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The trick in that age group is finding a player that's just about to breakout or that just needs a new team or system to breakout; but is not considered especially interesting to most.

So while Ingram has breakout potential, it's expected from him, and he will be much harder to get - unless the Pels just can't afford him.

There are some terrific shooters in that list, like Bertans, Bogdonivic, and we never should had let him go - Joe.
I'm not signing two versions of K. Love to big money. This team can't get stops. No more offense-only players.

Unless we trade both Sexton and Garland, we're always going to have one bad defender on the roster. Two for as long as Love is on the roster. That's the limit for a good starting lineup. Once you put that third bad defender on the floor, you're a bad defensive team.


We're already an All-Time Bad defensive team ... there's a pretty good chance that adding a merely bad defensive player will improve it.

Take Bertans for instance ... the Washington Basketball Club was right there neck and neck with us to the bitter end for worst defense, and in fact they were slightly worse with Bertans on the floor, but they were +7.1 pp100 better on offense.

If for some reason he was available on the cheap? I wouldn't hesitate to sign him.

Job #1 for the Cavs should be to get the offense working. It raises the trade value of our players, it helps us attract players, it entertains the fans, and it will help the team start winning games.


Setting aside the issue of what will or won't get the offense working, neither Bertans nor Bogdonvic is going to be available for cheap.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#15 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:48 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not signing two versions of K. Love to big money. This team can't get stops. No more offense-only players.

Unless we trade both Sexton and Garland, we're always going to have one bad defender on the roster. Two for as long as Love is on the roster. That's the limit for a good starting lineup. Once you put that third bad defender on the floor, you're a bad defensive team.


We're already an All-Time Bad defensive team ... there's a pretty good chance that adding a merely bad defensive player will improve it.

Take Bertans for instance ... the Washington Basketball Club was right there neck and neck with us to the bitter end for worst defense, and in fact they were slightly worse with Bertans on the floor, but they were +7.1 pp100 better on offense.

If for some reason he was available on the cheap? I wouldn't hesitate to sign him.

Job #1 for the Cavs should be to get the offense working. It raises the trade value of our players, it helps us attract players, it entertains the fans, and it will help the team start winning games.


Setting aside the issue of what will or won't get the offense working, neither Bertans nor Bogdonvic is going to be available for cheap.


Probably not Harris either, but these are strange times. My point is we should be looking for players with upside that fall through the cracks. If/when the league recovers from Covid, hopefully we'll have an asset at a good price entering their prime that we can trade as part of a bigger deal, or hold on to.
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Re: If Drummond opts out 

Post#16 » by Stillwater » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:03 pm

I dont have a problem with them bringing in a sharp shooting corner 3 type stretch 5 like Meyers Leonard on the cheap on a 2 year deal 2nd year minimal guarantee targeted as as the 3rd or 4th big if both TT and Dre are gone [highly unlikely obviously]leaving Love Nance and Wade + maybe a rook at 5 but there is the Bell factor if they want to keep him etc. I just hope they are good with allowing Wade to get more reps
and see what he can do and if he can stay healthy...has an elite bb iq and just has a bad injury history
Thanks to isolation and becoming one with the darkness of self I have
now harnessed a semi- permanent hypnagogic state of consciousness
where the painted dream of the wayward soul is false reality bliss-
There's Mud in the moonshine- Stillwater

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