Cavs 2020-21 season

[JonFromVA]

Pretty small sample size against pretty weak competition.

The fact what you consider a "small sample size" is currently our most played 5-man unit is important. It means everything else that went on (good or bad) before this stretch was even less relevent.

As for the level of competition, it was nothing like the west coast gauntlet; but compared to the level of our team there were no "gimmies" and the win over the 76'ers was one of our most impressive wins of the season.

Atlanta without Collins is a bad a team. The Rockets without Wood are a bad team. We actually lost to the Pacers who have been in a bit of tailspin since trading Dipo for Levert who immediately had to have surgery. Yes the win against the Sixers, who were without T. Harris, was impressive but the game went to overtime.

We're not good enough offensively to compete with the better teams in the NBA. Now maybe some of that changes if Wade, Windler, and Okoro start hitting 3s at a better rate, if Garland stops taking threes from 10 feet behind the line where he's shot putting the ball, or if Sexton stop protecting his percentage from 3, but I think we're a team where a player who is a No. 2 option on a good team is playing the role of a No. 1 option.

And the Cavs without Love, Drummond, Nance Jr, Delly, and others lost 10 in a row.

Your reply would have been appropriate 4 years ago when the Cavs were expected to contend for a championship, but we're in far more of a beggars shouldn't be choosers situation.

Making progress means beating teams at our level.

[jbk1234]

The fact what you consider a "small sample size" is currently our most played 5-man unit is important. It means everything else that went on (good or bad) before this stretch was even less relevent.

As for the level of competition, it was nothing like the west coast gauntlet; but compared to the level of our team there were no "gimmies" and the win over the 76'ers was one of our most impressive wins of the season.

Atlanta without Collins is a bad a team. The Rockets without Wood are a bad team. We actually lost to the Pacers who have been in a bit of tailspin since trading Dipo for Levert who immediately had to have surgery. Yes the win against the Sixers, who were without T. Harris, was impressive but the game went to overtime.

We're not good enough offensively to compete with the better teams in the NBA. Now maybe some of that changes if Wade, Windler, and Okoro start hitting 3s at a better rate, if Garland stops taking threes from 10 feet behind the line where he's shot putting the ball, or if Sexton stop protecting his percentage from 3, but I think we're a team where a player who is a No. 2 option on a good team is playing the role of a No. 1 option.

And the Cavs without Love, Drummond, Nance Jr, Delly, and others lost 10 in a row.

Your reply would have been appropriate 4 years ago when the Cavs were expected to contend for a championship, but we're in far more of a beggars shouldn't be choosers situation.

Making progress means beating teams at our level.

I'm all for close, competitive losses going forward. I'd love to get to a point where we're not getting run out of gym by good teams. I'd like to see continued improvement from our young players and continue the trend towards something more closely resembling organized, professional basketball. Kevin Love getting on the court, playing well, and improving his trade value would also be great.

Having said all of that, it's really important to get a good pick in the upcoming draft. It's far more important than winning games against bad teams with an eye towards a play in game. This team isn't there yet and no one is giving up a top 3 pick for anyone on this roster as a stand alone proposal.

The Garland/Sexton backcourt isn't sustainable defensively over the long haul and they both are good enough offensively that losing either one is going to hurt. It would be nice to replace one of them with an actual upgrade in the upcoming draft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Stillwater]

I fully expect them to go for the play in game and maybe even get it or sniff it...if everyone is available or if they upgrade at the dl from a DNP Love and Dre but I am starting to be more interested in one of the high lottery players in the past couple days the more I watch their games over getting a couple playoff games under the belt for the current roster even though there are some nice plug in type forwards in this draft that should be available in the 12-16 range.

[JonFromVA]

Atlanta without Collins is a bad a team. The Rockets without Wood are a bad team. We actually lost to the Pacers who have been in a bit of tailspin since trading Dipo for Levert who immediately had to have surgery. Yes the win against the Sixers, who were without T. Harris, was impressive but the game went to overtime.

We're not good enough offensively to compete with the better teams in the NBA. Now maybe some of that changes if Wade, Windler, and Okoro start hitting 3s at a better rate, if Garland stops taking threes from 10 feet behind the line where he's shot putting the ball, or if Sexton stop protecting his percentage from 3, but I think we're a team where a player who is a No. 2 option on a good team is playing the role of a No. 1 option.

And the Cavs without Love, Drummond, Nance Jr, Delly, and others lost 10 in a row.

Your reply would have been appropriate 4 years ago when the Cavs were expected to contend for a championship, but we're in far more of a beggars shouldn't be choosers situation.

Making progress means beating teams at our level.

I'm all for close, competitive losses going forward. I'd love to get to a point where we're not getting run out of gym by good teams. I'd like to see continued improvement from our young players and continue the trend towards something more closely resembling organized, professional basketball. Kevin Love getting on the court, playing well, and improving his trade value would also be great.

Having said all of that, it's really important to get a good pick in the upcoming draft. It's far more important than winning games against bad teams with an eye towards a play in game. This team isn't there yet and no one is giving up a top 3 pick for anyone on this roster as a stand alone proposal.

The Garland/Sexton backcourt isn't sustainable defensively over the long haul and they both are good enough offensively that losing either one is going to hurt. It would be nice to replace one of them with an actual upgrade in the upcoming draft.

Player development, talent evaluation, and finding things that work is literally the only thing that matters ... everything else is out of the team's control.

[jbk1234]

And the Cavs without Love, Drummond, Nance Jr, Delly, and others lost 10 in a row.

Your reply would have been appropriate 4 years ago when the Cavs were expected to contend for a championship, but we're in far more of a beggars shouldn't be choosers situation.

Making progress means beating teams at our level.

I'm all for close, competitive losses going forward. I'd love to get to a point where we're not getting run out of gym by good teams. I'd like to see continued improvement from our young players and continue the trend towards something more closely resembling organized, professional basketball. Kevin Love getting on the court, playing well, and improving his trade value would also be great.

Having said all of that, it's really important to get a good pick in the upcoming draft. It's far more important than winning games against bad teams with an eye towards a play in game. This team isn't there yet and no one is giving up a top 3 pick for anyone on this roster as a stand alone proposal.

The Garland/Sexton backcourt isn't sustainable defensively over the long haul and they both are good enough offensively that losing either one is going to hurt. It would be nice to replace one of them with an actual upgrade in the upcoming draft.

Player development, talent evaluation, and finding things that work is literally the only thing that matters ... everything else is out of the team's control.

I obviously think they're still a player away from being out of talent acquisition mode. Teams that don't want to win too much find a way. If the Cavs trade Cedi and McGee at the deadline, their already thin bench would be non-existent. You could load manage Allen in back to back games.

My nightmare scenario is that Love and Nance come back, the second half of schedule is easier, we beat up against a bunch of bad teams and we're too far out on draft day to trade up. Then next year Love gets hurt again, we're over the cap, we're playing .400 ball, we're extending Sexton, and the cement starts setting around a team that will hover between the 10th and 6th seed for half a decade without ever winning a playoff series.

[Stillwater]

I'm all for close, competitive losses going forward. I'd love to get to a point where we're not getting run out of gym by good teams. I'd like to see continued improvement from our young players and continue the trend towards something more closely resembling organized, professional basketball. Kevin Love getting on the court, playing well, and improving his trade value would also be great.

Having said all of that, it's really important to get a good pick in the upcoming draft. It's far more important than winning games against bad teams with an eye towards a play in game. This team isn't there yet and no one is giving up a top 3 pick for anyone on this roster as a stand alone proposal.

The Garland/Sexton backcourt isn't sustainable defensively over the long haul and they both are good enough offensively that losing either one is going to hurt. It would be nice to replace one of them with an actual upgrade in the upcoming draft.

Player development, talent evaluation, and finding things that work is literally the only thing that matters ... everything else is out of the team's control.

I obviously think they're still a player away from being out of talent acquisition mode. Teams that don't want to win too much find a way. If the Cavs trade Cedi and McGee at the deadline, their already thin bench would be non-existent. You could load manage Allen in back to back games.

My nightmare scenario is that Love and Nance come back, the second half of schedule is easier, we beat up against a bunch of bad teams and we're too far out on draft day to trade up. Then next year Love gets hurt again, we're over the cap, we're playing .400 ball, we're extending Sexton, and the cement starts setting around a team that will hover between the 10th and 6th seed for half a decade without ever winning a playoff series.

although I tend to agree with your take on this as far as what could happen as far as being stuck in mediocrity and capped out
I for starters dont think this team as constructed will ever be mediocre in the playoffsand will be in the lottery for awhile without 2 more high lottery level prospects or one hell of a streak of great luck finding gems either cast offs from orgs too impatient or by picking up late firsts and gambling on the potential for fast learners in the next two seasons.
Sexton is Sexton and he will probably keep improving until the most scrutinizing of critics give in, but even if he doesnt they will have to pay him unless he believes in the roster around him and is willing to take a discount.
DG is who he is too but as you know imo hes not an NBA athlete so for that reason his skillset actually has to get a lot better
than it is to justify paying him or even extending him imo.regardless of if they tandem finds a way to function in the regular season. DG has been decent this season at times, but
his reluctance to take 3s and more concerning his inability to finish in traffic or absorb contact without injury risk is a big problem
if you dont have a Sexton out there with him who can...
Okoro is farther away than most thought in the predraft process imo, but his awareness defensively is for real& he has been putting up shots I can see that work is being done. He is at least a
couple years away from showing his full potential but that is less likely to be realized imo without everything going
absolutely as they hope it will and he may cost more than he should when his time comes too.
Allen is better than I thought he would be this far into his young career compared to my takes on him pre draft and I am not really too reluctant to say he is more than worth calling the center of the future, but I also think as difficult as it is to find solid bigs they might end up using to much $ to retain him and it will hurt them having that much invested in a big that isnt embiid or joker level impact
everyone else is interesting...I really like Windler but he is struggling with NBA size some so he might max out as less than hoped
Wade is a better shooter than most realized but he needs to be afforded more ops than he will get after LNJ is back,or its pointless to keep him,
and as far as anyone else like Stevens or Dotson they are end of rotation pieces and probably gone by next season at this time replaced by similar players.
I want to see them do something besides buyouts tbh but they probably will choke given the issues with everyone available to be moved. Best case imo is Prince gets them the Dallas 21 2nd

[JonFromVA]

I'm all for close, competitive losses going forward. I'd love to get to a point where we're not getting run out of gym by good teams. I'd like to see continued improvement from our young players and continue the trend towards something more closely resembling organized, professional basketball. Kevin Love getting on the court, playing well, and improving his trade value would also be great.

Having said all of that, it's really important to get a good pick in the upcoming draft. It's far more important than winning games against bad teams with an eye towards a play in game. This team isn't there yet and no one is giving up a top 3 pick for anyone on this roster as a stand alone proposal.

The Garland/Sexton backcourt isn't sustainable defensively over the long haul and they both are good enough offensively that losing either one is going to hurt. It would be nice to replace one of them with an actual upgrade in the upcoming draft.

Player development, talent evaluation, and finding things that work is literally the only thing that matters ... everything else is out of the team's control.

I obviously think they're still a player away from being out of talent acquisition mode. Teams that don't want to win too much find a way. If the Cavs trade Cedi and McGee at the deadline, their already thin bench would be non-existent. You could load manage Allen in back to back games.

My nightmare scenario is that Love and Nance come back, the second half of schedule is easier, we beat up against a bunch of bad teams and we're too far out on draft day to trade up. Then next year Love gets hurt again, we're over the cap, we're playing .400 ball, we're extending Sexton, and the cement starts setting around a team that will hover between the 10th and 6th seed for half a decade without ever winning a playoff series.

If the team stagnates, Koby and JBB will be fired, and somebody else will get a shot to do better; but if you're counting on a top-4 draft pick to save the team ... your nightmare started in 2010, because we haven't had one.

The Jarrett Allen trade was a great example of how a team can turn some minor assets in to a valuable player. Dean Wade cost us next to nothing, and has done a pretty nice job replacing what we expect from Kevin.

Imagine if we had some valuable players to trade?

As long as Koby can continue making smart moves like that, there is no cap on the team, no treadmill, and there plenty of examples of teams that have pulled it off.

That's the path forward IMO. If we get some luck along the way? Cool. But even if we get Cade Cunningham (or whoever you like), it's not like there are any guarantees. There's a lot of top-5 lottery picks littering the roster of teams fighting for a playoff seed; meanwhile the Jazz have the best record in the league built around later draft picks and a vet that needed to be dumped to make room for a lottery pick.

The Cavs may suck for years, but it won't be because we won a few more games than you would have liked.

[jbk1234]

Player development, talent evaluation, and finding things that work is literally the only thing that matters ... everything else is out of the team's control.

I obviously think they're still a player away from being out of talent acquisition mode. Teams that don't want to win too much find a way. If the Cavs trade Cedi and McGee at the deadline, their already thin bench would be non-existent. You could load manage Allen in back to back games.

My nightmare scenario is that Love and Nance come back, the second half of schedule is easier, we beat up against a bunch of bad teams and we're too far out on draft day to trade up. Then next year Love gets hurt again, we're over the cap, we're playing .400 ball, we're extending Sexton, and the cement starts setting around a team that will hover between the 10th and 6th seed for half a decade without ever winning a playoff series.

If the team stagnates, Koby and JBB will be fired, and somebody else will get a shot to do better; but if you're counting on a top-4 draft pick to save the team ... your nightmare started in 2010, because we haven't had one.

The Jarrett Allen trade was a great example of how a team can turn some minor assets in to a valuable player. Dean Wade cost us next to nothing, and has done a pretty nice job replacing what we expect from Kevin.

Imagine if we had some valuable players to trade?

As long as Koby can continue making smart moves like that, there is no cap on the team, no treadmill, and there plenty of examples of teams that have pulled it off.

That's the path forward IMO. If we get some luck along the way? Cool. But even if we get Cade Cunningham (or whoever you like), it's not like there are any guarantees. There's a lot of top-5 lottery picks littering the roster of teams fighting for a playoff seed; meanwhile the Jazz have the best record in the league built around later draft picks and a vet that needed to be dumped to make room for a lottery pick.

The Cavs may suck for years, but it won't be because we won a few more games than you would have liked.

We don't need a savior, but I do think a clear-eyed assessment of where you're at in terms of fit, flaws, etc. is in order before we decide to make a hard push for the post season and begin defaulting into certain outcomes. If the organization has determined that it's going to try to win regardless, then even though I'm much higher on Garland than Sexton, I'd trade him for Ball while it's still possible. Get a third team involved if you have to. There just aren't a lot of guys who can space the floor, are tall enough to defend multiple positions, and can run an offense in NBA. If the organization is confident enough in Sexton that they're willing to go the Jazz route, then get the type of backcourt running mate he needs to play alongside of.

[JonFromVA]

I obviously think they're still a player away from being out of talent acquisition mode. Teams that don't want to win too much find a way. If the Cavs trade Cedi and McGee at the deadline, their already thin bench would be non-existent. You could load manage Allen in back to back games.

My nightmare scenario is that Love and Nance come back, the second half of schedule is easier, we beat up against a bunch of bad teams and we're too far out on draft day to trade up. Then next year Love gets hurt again, we're over the cap, we're playing .400 ball, we're extending Sexton, and the cement starts setting around a team that will hover between the 10th and 6th seed for half a decade without ever winning a playoff series.

If the team stagnates, Koby and JBB will be fired, and somebody else will get a shot to do better; but if you're counting on a top-4 draft pick to save the team ... your nightmare started in 2010, because we haven't had one.

The Jarrett Allen trade was a great example of how a team can turn some minor assets in to a valuable player. Dean Wade cost us next to nothing, and has done a pretty nice job replacing what we expect from Kevin.

Imagine if we had some valuable players to trade?

As long as Koby can continue making smart moves like that, there is no cap on the team, no treadmill, and there plenty of examples of teams that have pulled it off.

That's the path forward IMO. If we get some luck along the way? Cool. But even if we get Cade Cunningham (or whoever you like), it's not like there are any guarantees. There's a lot of top-5 lottery picks littering the roster of teams fighting for a playoff seed; meanwhile the Jazz have the best record in the league built around later draft picks and a vet that needed to be dumped to make room for a lottery pick.

The Cavs may suck for years, but it won't be because we won a few more games than you would have liked.

We don't need a savior, but I do think a clear-eyed assessment of where you're at in terms of fit, flaws, etc. is in order before we decide to make a hard push for the post season and begin defaulting into certain outcomes. If the organization has determined that it's going to try to win regardless, then even though I'm much higher on Garland than Sexton, I'd trade him for Ball while it's still possible. Get a third team involved if you have to. There just aren't a lot of guys who can space the floor, are tall enough to defend multiple positions, and can run an offense in NBA. If the organization is confident enough in Sexton that they're willing to go the Jazz route, then get the type of backcourt running mate he needs to play alongside of.

Or we just continue to look for an Exum replacement to help us evaluate our options. Heck, I suppose our Exum replacement could theoretically end up being Exum signing with us this Summer. We can't trust him to stay healthy, but at the right price, why not?

[Harper4Ferry?]

Quinn Cook? I guess that's a start at backup PG. Plus they can always cut him loose if they need to do a trade.

[JonFromVA]

Quinn Cook? I guess that's a start at backup PG. Plus they can always cut him loose if they need to do a trade.

Yeah, I'm not sure why it's been so hard for them to find someone on a 10-day or 2-way who can come in and help. They tried Yogi Farrell for all of 2 games. They want roster flexibility in case we need to take back players in a Drummond trade, and I wonder if our reluctance to offer a contract for the rest of season (or longer) may be limiting our options.

In other words, was Brodiric Thomas the best we could do? And will we bring him up? I believe the Charge's season is over.

edit: Oops, misread Harper4Ferry's comment. Quinn Cook has been signed. Hopefully it's not a sign that Garland is going to miss more games.

[Stillwater]

Quinn Cook? I guess that's a start at backup PG. Plus they can always cut him loose if they need to do a trade.

I assume its just to let DG take it slow \

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure Cook is going to go a lot better than Dotson. All of these guys are capable of playing a decent game or two, but players revert to their mean the larger the sample size gets.

[JonFromVA]

I'm not sure Cook is going to go a lot better than Dotson. All of these guys are capable of playing a decent game or two, but players revert to their mean the larger the sample size gets.

I'm seeing a trend.

The Cavs seem hesitant or unable to bring in a player with actual PG skills, and end up with combo guards with 3pt shooting ability.

But hey, given we struggled just to bring the ball up the floor .vs. the Pacers, I'm glad they're bringing someone in who can dribble.

[Stillwater]

I'm not sure Cook is going to go a lot better than Dotson. All of these guys are capable of playing a decent game or two, but players revert to their mean the larger the sample size gets.

I'm seeing a trend.

The Cavs seem hesitant or unable to bring in a player with actual PG skills, and end up with combo guards with 3pt shooting ability.

But hey, given we struggled just to bring the ball up the floor .vs. the Pacers, I'm glad they're bringing someone in who can dribble.

lol 1 brain fart does not equate to bad ball handlers
Cook is no better or worse than Thomas as a ball handler I can see that pretty easy, but he was a really solid role player for GSW and started in Canton so there is a chance they are planning on seeing how impactful he can be as a replacement level player on the cheap if they get a legit offer to trade DG

[JonFromVA]

I'm not sure Cook is going to go a lot better than Dotson. All of these guys are capable of playing a decent game or two, but players revert to their mean the larger the sample size gets.

I'm seeing a trend.

The Cavs seem hesitant or unable to bring in a player with actual PG skills, and end up with combo guards with 3pt shooting ability.

But hey, given we struggled just to bring the ball up the floor .vs. the Pacers, I'm glad they're bringing someone in who can dribble.

lol 1 brain fart does not equate to bad ball handlers
Cook is no better or worse than Thomas as a ball handler I can see that pretty easy, but he was a really solid role player for GSW and started in Canton so there is a chance they are planning on seeing how impactful he can be as a replacement level player on the cheap if they get a legit offer to trade DG

lol, you always find a way to try to turn one thing in to something else ... fact is we were already down a backup PG and if Garland needs more time to recover it goes from a minor to a major problem.

It's a 10-day deal, not a long-term solution to anything.

[Stillwater]

I'm seeing a trend.

The Cavs seem hesitant or unable to bring in a player with actual PG skills, and end up with combo guards with 3pt shooting ability.

But hey, given we struggled just to bring the ball up the floor .vs. the Pacers, I'm glad they're bringing someone in who can dribble.

lol 1 brain fart does not equate to bad ball handlers
Cook is no better or worse than Thomas as a ball handler I can see that pretty easy, but he was a really solid role player for GSW and started in Canton so there is a chance they are planning on seeing how impactful he can be as a replacement level player on the cheap if they get a legit offer to trade DG

lol, you always find a way to try to turn one thing in to something else ... fact is we were already down a backup PG and if Garland needs more time to recover it goes from a minor to a major problem.

It's a 10-day deal, not a long-term solution to anything.

Oh I am pretty sure its something more than a ten day contract if they trade DG... but yeah I know its nothing hes probably just brought in for a couple practices before the season resumes tomorrow and might have a house in CLE still or something.

[jbk1234]

lol 1 brain fart does not equate to bad ball handlers
Cook is no better or worse than Thomas as a ball handler I can see that pretty easy, but he was a really solid role player for GSW and started in Canton so there is a chance they are planning on seeing how impactful he can be as a replacement level player on the cheap if they get a legit offer to trade DG

lol, you always find a way to try to turn one thing in to something else ... fact is we were already down a backup PG and if Garland needs more time to recover it goes from a minor to a major problem.

It's a 10-day deal, not a long-term solution to anything.

Oh I am pretty sure its something more than a ten day contract if they trade DG... but yeah I know its nothing hes probably just brought in for a couple practices before the season resumes tomorrow and might have a house in CLE still or something.

I'd be shocked if they trade DG at the deadline, and if he's traded for anything other than Ball +, I'd be done frankly.

[Stillwater]

lol, you always find a way to try to turn one thing in to something else ... fact is we were already down a backup PG and if Garland needs more time to recover it goes from a minor to a major problem.

It's a 10-day deal, not a long-term solution to anything.

Oh I am pretty sure its something more than a ten day contract if they trade DG... but yeah I know its nothing hes probably just brought in for a couple practices before the season resumes tomorrow and might have a house in CLE still or something.

I'd be shocked if they trade DG at the deadline, and if he's traded for anything other than Ball +, I'd be done frankly.

I know it seems unlikely anyone is traded but I started laughing when I read and then heard later today on the radio the same echo of local leaks trying to insinuate anyone on a 14 win team in untouchable they listed guess who...Sexton DG Nance Okoro and JFro aka the 5 guys that pretty much nobody thinks they would trade and the only ones with any real trade value like a potential lottery pick.
I would not be at all surprised if any of them were moved at this juncture

[jbk1234]

Oh I am pretty sure its something more than a ten day contract if they trade DG... but yeah I know its nothing hes probably just brought in for a couple practices before the season resumes tomorrow and might have a house in CLE still or something.

I'd be shocked if they trade DG at the deadline, and if he's traded for anything other than Ball +, I'd be done frankly.

I know it seems unlikely anyone is traded but I started laughing when I read and then heard later today on the radio the same echo of local leaks trying to insinuate anyone on a 14 win team in untouchable they listed guess who...Sexton DG Nance Okoro and JFro aka the 5 guys that pretty much nobody thinks they would trade and the only ones with any real trade value like a potential lottery pick.
I would not be at all surprised if any of them were moved at this juncture

I mean Allen should be untouchable for anyone outside of a young star. It's a difficult position to find a two-way player at, he's a great defender, and probably the only reason the Cavs don't get run out of the gym by every opponent.