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Cavs 2020-21 season

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#381 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:17 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:we're better off buying out Dre than taking back Powell. Powell making 10+ million would seriously restrict our ability to use the Midlevel and stay under the tax in his 2 remaining years.
Yep. I'd need a second for Drummond and a 1st to eat Powell.

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Not me , Powell is serviceable and this org can find other ways to get under the tax . getting a 2nd and or a sleeper project like Bey for Dre is the way to go. I dont see them getting anything for Dre without taking bad at least 1 longer deal.
Maybe just getting rid of him is the smartest thing but they clearly are only doing that as a secondary option and imo that means they are willing to take back $
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#382 » by Harper4Ferry? » Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm

I added up all the cap numbers and I guess if you view Powell as better than anyone you get for your MLE it's doable. If he's healthy its a good backup center option, but i think the money situation could get tight if Allen gets a big-ish offer sheet. 3 for 1 means we'd have to send back someone like Dotson and waive Cook. Or i guess sending out Javale or straight waiving him would also work.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#383 » by Stillwater » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:58 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I added up all the cap numbers and I guess if you view Powell as better than anyone you get for your MLE it's doable. If he's healthy its a good backup center option, but i think the money situation could get tight if Allen gets a big-ish offer sheet. 3 for 1 means we'd have to send back someone like Dotson and waive Cook. Or i guess sending out Javale or straight waiving him would also work.

Yeah I am anticipating Javale sent out for a 2nd round pick coming back w/ a player thats also expiring and consequently waived
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#384 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:42 pm

Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:I added up all the cap numbers and I guess if you view Powell as better than anyone you get for your MLE it's doable. If he's healthy its a good backup center option, but i think the money situation could get tight if Allen gets a big-ish offer sheet. 3 for 1 means we'd have to send back someone like Dotson and waive Cook. Or i guess sending out Javale or straight waiving him would also work.

Yeah I am anticipating Javale sent out for a 2nd round pick coming back w/ a player thats also expiring and consequently waived


Close ... we're getting 2 second rounders from Denver (one is protected) and we're getting Isaiah Hartenstein who appears to have a cheap player option for next year. Who's a 7 footer who probably won't foul out if only played 15 minutes a night.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#385 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:07 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
Harper4Ferry? wrote:I added up all the cap numbers and I guess if you view Powell as better than anyone you get for your MLE it's doable. If he's healthy its a good backup center option, but i think the money situation could get tight if Allen gets a big-ish offer sheet. 3 for 1 means we'd have to send back someone like Dotson and waive Cook. Or i guess sending out Javale or straight waiving him would also work.

Yeah I am anticipating Javale sent out for a 2nd round pick coming back w/ a player thats also expiring and consequently waived


Close ... we're getting 2 second rounders from Denver (one is protected) and we're getting Isaiah Hartenstein who appears to have a cheap player option for next year. Who's a 7 footer who probably won't foul out if only played 15 minutes a night.

Like most international bigs the kid can play
Hes a solid back up at the 4 and the 5 probably in jbbs offense not sure about defense but seems to understand what to do as a team defender .
When in houston the way they played he showed he can run some too.
I like the value but would rather had a 2nd in the 30s in this draft oh well
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#386 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:36 pm

Nice trade. I like him as a backup center.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#387 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:01 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Nice trade. I like him as a backup center.


His age is certainly a better fit with our group, and we can think of him as having early second round / late first round value that's already had some burn in the league and fills an immediate need at backup C.

In other words, another low-risk Koby style move.

Short of a super-stealth deal from Koby, the big question now seems to be if Kyle Lowry is traded whether we end up picking up some of the scraps that Toronto won't have room for on their roster.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#388 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:18 pm

I'll miss JaVale. He was a professional. When we were playing good, his spirit was definitely infectious on the bench. You can just tell that he's a fun guy to be around. Once we started tailing off, he did a bit more of the crazy JaVale stuff. If he wants to coach some day, we should grab him as an assistant.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#389 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:21 pm

Looks like Hartenstein has a player option but if he declines it, he's still a restricted FA after the season.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#390 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:10 pm

IH stats in the NBA are pretty much meh on extremely low usage but he has shown the ability in the gleague and in fact more in euro leagues to rebound and dunk/put back at a decent clip get to his spots defensively including the lateral agility to at least stay with stretch 5's not that that is saying much but he can defend some outside the paint and isnt always playing catch up or running behind...
that being said I am not sold he is a gazelle either but that is the one thing I am hoping proves to be he is and at that point this deal is fine
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#391 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:35 pm

Hartenstein's averaging 13 & 10 with 2 blocks and a steal per36 over his brief career, but at the rate he commits fouls I'm sure it's been hard to keep him on the floor.

How many minutes until he attempts his first 3pter as a Cavalier?
(Spoiler alert: he attempted 0 for the Nuggets this season)
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#392 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:04 pm

Drummond getting bought out.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#393 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:11 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Drummond getting bought out.

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If I ran the team I'd probably fire Altman over the Drummond thing. Paid him roughly 33 million for 33 games.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#394 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:21 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Drummond getting bought out.

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If I ran the team I'd probably fire Altman over the Drummond thing. Paid him roughly 33 million for 33 games.
I mean you have to make that Allen trade, and while Drummond's reaction to it was unfortunate, it was a foreseeable consequence of the trade.

Hopefully, he's got a contract with the Knicks that will justify a large enough buy out that the Cavs can spend the saved money on the type of second round pick they were looking for.

Once the Bulls traded OPJ for Vuc, there weren't a lot of available trade partners that made sense for the Cavs.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#395 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:13 pm

We've essentially gone the entire season without an NBA caliber backup PG, and it looks like that's how things are going to stay.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#396 » by JonFromVA » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:31 pm

jbk1234 wrote:We've essentially gone the entire season without an NBA caliber backup PG, and it looks like that's how things are going to stay.


Once Drummond is moved, we'll have another roster spot we can play with. Maybe we keep Cook for the rest of the year, and Delly was actually seen getting some work in before a game the other day. Maybe someone useful gets bought out? Or not ...

As for Drummond, I get it's disappointing how things worked out, but he literally served the purpose we brought him in for. We got to see how our young players looked with a real big man and while we had no chance to draft Wiseman, it surely informed our decision to trade for Allen. At that point, not only did we get the look, we got the player we wanted.

Drummond not only wanted to feel wanted he wanted to be paid like it too, and that was something we couldn't even pretend anymore after acquiring Allen.

Koby does his best work facilitating other team's trades, and I suspect hopes for that kind of trade were dashed when the Raptors failed to move Lowry; and to make matters worse there just wasn't much demand for expiring contracts this year.

If we could just stay focused on team construction and playing basketball, maybe we could build up some player value, and then we might actually be able to drive a trade with talent for a change.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#397 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:41 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:We've essentially gone the entire season without an NBA caliber backup PG, and it looks like that's how things are going to stay.


Once Drummond is moved, we'll have another roster spot we can play with. Maybe we keep Cook for the rest of the year, and Delly was actually seen getting some work in before a game the other day. Maybe someone useful gets bought out? Or not ...

As for Drummond, I get it's disappointing how things worked out, but he literally served the purpose we brought him in for. We got to see how our young players looked with a real big man and while we had no chance to draft Wiseman, it surely informed our decision to trade for Allen. At that point, not only did we get the look, we got the player we wanted.

Drummond not only wanted to feel wanted he wanted to be paid like it too, and that was something we couldn't even pretend anymore after acquiring Allen.

Koby does his best work facilitating other team's trades, and I suspect hopes for that kind of trade were dashed when the Raptors failed to move Lowry; and to make matters worse there just wasn't much demand for expiring contracts this year.

If we could just stay focused on team construction and playing basketball, maybe we could build up some player value, and then we might actually be able to drive a trade with talent for a change.

There is a chance they refuse to offer him a buyout and try a s/t this summer as at this point the amt of $ saved in a buyout seems unlikely to provide any short term answers and def no long term ones.
But they will buy him out as expected after they sat him for a month which was useless and why people have a problem with it imo. Had they just played him through the process and then opted not to take back $ to move him for a pick or 2 and gave him the buyout it would have looked better on the surface even though the result is the same. As it was everyone pretty much knew he was disgruntled after the trade for Allen and the Cavs had no leverage.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#398 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:39 pm

LMA gave back $7.25M which is not going to make buyout negotiations easier. Hopefully, the Knicks offer him most of the cap space they have left even if it's only a one-year deal.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#399 » by jbk1234 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:We've essentially gone the entire season without an NBA caliber backup PG, and it looks like that's how things are going to stay.


Once Drummond is moved, we'll have another roster spot we can play with. Maybe we keep Cook for the rest of the year, and Delly was actually seen getting some work in before a game the other day. Maybe someone useful gets bought out? Or not ...

As for Drummond, I get it's disappointing how things worked out, but he literally served the purpose we brought him in for. We got to see how our young players looked with a real big man and while we had no chance to draft Wiseman, it surely informed our decision to trade for Allen. At that point, not only did we get the look, we got the player we wanted.

Drummond not only wanted to feel wanted he wanted to be paid like it too, and that was something we couldn't even pretend anymore after acquiring Allen.

Koby does his best work facilitating other team's trades, and I suspect hopes for that kind of trade were dashed when the Raptors failed to move Lowry; and to make matters worse there just wasn't much demand for expiring contracts this year.

If we could just stay focused on team construction and playing basketball, maybe we could build up some player value, and then we might actually be able to drive a trade with talent for a change.

There is a chance they refuse to offer him a buyout and try a s/t this summer as at this point the amt of $ saved in a buyout seems unlikely to provide any short term answers and def no long term ones.
But they will buy him out as expected after they sat him for a month which was useless and why people have a problem with it imo. Had they just played him through the process and then opted not to take back $ to move him for a pick or 2 and gave him the buyout it would have looked better on the surface even though the result is the same. As it was everyone pretty much knew he was disgruntled after the trade for Allen and the Cavs had no leverage.
Based on all available reporting, Drummond sitting out was a mutual decision. If he was angry about the minutes Allen was getting, before the Cavs decided to start Allen, then it sounds like Drummond's expectations were unreasonable. Players get a say in how things go down.

Drummond could've beasted of the bench, been a good teammate, and had better trade value. But I suspect neither he nor his agent wanted other teams to perceive him as a really good bench player heading into FA. Sometimes the situation just is what is.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#400 » by Stillwater » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:54 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Once Drummond is moved, we'll have another roster spot we can play with. Maybe we keep Cook for the rest of the year, and Delly was actually seen getting some work in before a game the other day. Maybe someone useful gets bought out? Or not ...

As for Drummond, I get it's disappointing how things worked out, but he literally served the purpose we brought him in for. We got to see how our young players looked with a real big man and while we had no chance to draft Wiseman, it surely informed our decision to trade for Allen. At that point, not only did we get the look, we got the player we wanted.

Drummond not only wanted to feel wanted he wanted to be paid like it too, and that was something we couldn't even pretend anymore after acquiring Allen.

Koby does his best work facilitating other team's trades, and I suspect hopes for that kind of trade were dashed when the Raptors failed to move Lowry; and to make matters worse there just wasn't much demand for expiring contracts this year.

If we could just stay focused on team construction and playing basketball, maybe we could build up some player value, and then we might actually be able to drive a trade with talent for a change.

There is a chance they refuse to offer him a buyout and try a s/t this summer as at this point the amt of $ saved in a buyout seems unlikely to provide any short term answers and def no long term ones.
But they will buy him out as expected after they sat him for a month which was useless and why people have a problem with it imo. Had they just played him through the process and then opted not to take back $ to move him for a pick or 2 and gave him the buyout it would have looked better on the surface even though the result is the same. As it was everyone pretty much knew he was disgruntled after the trade for Allen and the Cavs had no leverage.
Based on all available reporting, Drummond sitting out was a mutual decision. If he was angry about the minutes Allen was getting, before the Cavs decided to start Allen, then it sounds like Drummond's expectations were unreasonable. Players get a say in how things go down.

Drummond could've beasted of the bench, been a good teammate, and had better trade value. But I suspect neither he nor his agent wanted other teams to perceive him as a really good bench player heading into FA. Sometimes the situation just is what is.

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right I mean I think the problem is they needed to continue to start him to keep his value high and since they were unwilling to do that needing to focus on getting Allen reps with the rest of the young starters they really had no choice if he refused to play off the bench etc. Regardless of what transpired they obviously hoped they would get something besides nothing
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING

Fischella wrote "There are easily 40-50 dudes with higher ceilings than Juzang in this class"

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