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Cavs 2020-21 season

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tleikheen
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#41 » by tleikheen » Mon Dec 7, 2020 3:36 am

Again, this is very close to trolling.


Maybe to you ,but this isnt trolling.This just doesnt follow your lead. I'm not saying much different than what Locked on Cavs have had to say or Bleacher report .
Until KLove is moved and the decision on who the Cavs are going to go with at PG than the narrative of the season will be the short stature of the Cavs guards puts them in the hole and maybe Larry Sanders might be ready to replace KLove and what to do.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#42 » by jbk1234 » Mon Dec 7, 2020 4:14 am

tleikheen wrote:
Again, this is very close to trolling.


Maybe to you ,but this isnt trolling.This just doesnt follow your lead. I'm not saying much different than what Locked on Cavs have had to say or Bleacher report .
Until KLove is moved and the decision on who the Cavs are going to go with at PG than the narrative of the season will be the short stature of the Cavs guards puts them in the hole and maybe Larry Sanders might be ready to replace KLove and what to do.
You're not a fan of this team. You're posting the sky is falling nonsense before the season has even started - on a Cavs forum. You seem to have an agenda regarding our players. Whatever your motivation, I can tell you you're headed towards a place where you won't be able to post on a Cavs forum again.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#43 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 7, 2020 4:32 am

tleikheen wrote:
Again, this is very close to trolling.


Maybe to you ,but this isnt trolling.This just doesnt follow your lead. I'm not saying much different than what Locked on Cavs have had to say or Bleacher report .
Until KLove is moved and the decision on who the Cavs are going to go with at PG than the narrative of the season will be the short stature of the Cavs guards puts them in the hole and maybe Larry Sanders might be ready to replace KLove and what to do.

your comments are not even sensible or worth debating. esp this one lol
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#44 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 7, 2020 4:05 pm

tleikheen wrote:The whole Eastern and Central division has gone big at the guards.Almost every guard Sexton will have to guard is 6'5".6'6",6'7" and Sexton is near the worst defender in the League.Okoro can't bail him out,theres to many good SF's he'll have to guard himself.Same with Garland trying to stop the PG's.
Cavs will potentially be playing from behind all season long , the L's following.


If Sexton and Garland are strong enough to hold their ground, deal with screens, stay in front of the ball handler and get a hand up, our defense would be greatly improved. Most offenses these days are trying to generate layups and open 3pt shots.

With some defensive fundamentals in place, I have doubts an attack that relied on shooting over the outstretched hand of shorter defenders or posting them up would generate the kind of efficiencies a modern pace & space offense can generate.

Of course our offense will need to improve by leaps & bounds to make that practical.

Teams like Houston, Dallas, and Denver have had a lot of success with mediocre defenses.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#45 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 7, 2020 5:59 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
tleikheen wrote:The whole Eastern and Central division has gone big at the guards.Almost every guard Sexton will have to guard is 6'5".6'6",6'7" and Sexton is near the worst defender in the League.Okoro can't bail him out,theres to many good SF's he'll have to guard himself.Same with Garland trying to stop the PG's.
Cavs will potentially be playing from behind all season long , the L's following.


If Sexton and Garland are strong enough to hold their ground, deal with screens, stay in front of the ball handler and get a hand up, our defense would be greatly improved. Most offenses these days are trying to generate layups and open 3pt shots.

With some defensive fundamentals in place, I have doubts an attack that relied on shooting over the outstretched hand of shorter defenders or posting them up would generate the kind of efficiencies a modern pace & space offense can generate.

Of course our offense will need to improve by leaps & bounds to make that practical.

Teams like Houston, Dallas, and Denver have had a lot of success with mediocre defenses.

just ignore him hes a jazz fan that has been trolling here since we traded JC to them for his boy Exum
who he thinks should be the starting pg
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#46 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 7, 2020 6:11 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
tleikheen wrote:The whole Eastern and Central division has gone big at the guards.Almost every guard Sexton will have to guard is 6'5".6'6",6'7" and Sexton is near the worst defender in the League.Okoro can't bail him out,theres to many good SF's he'll have to guard himself.Same with Garland trying to stop the PG's.
Cavs will potentially be playing from behind all season long , the L's following.


If Sexton and Garland are strong enough to hold their ground, deal with screens, stay in front of the ball handler and get a hand up, our defense would be greatly improved. Most offenses these days are trying to generate layups and open 3pt shots.

With some defensive fundamentals in place, I have doubts an attack that relied on shooting over the outstretched hand of shorter defenders or posting them up would generate the kind of efficiencies a modern pace & space offense can generate.

Of course our offense will need to improve by leaps & bounds to make that practical.

Teams like Houston, Dallas, and Denver have had a lot of success with mediocre defenses.

just ignore him hes a jazz fan that has been trolling here since we traded JC to them for his boy Exum
who he thinks should be the starting pg


Hey, if Exum can demonstrate he should be our starting PG for this season and the future, I'm good with that; but I wouldn't hand him the job just because he's 6'5" and isn't incompetent on defense after 6 seasons in the league.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#47 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 7, 2020 6:51 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If Sexton and Garland are strong enough to hold their ground, deal with screens, stay in front of the ball handler and get a hand up, our defense would be greatly improved. Most offenses these days are trying to generate layups and open 3pt shots.

With some defensive fundamentals in place, I have doubts an attack that relied on shooting over the outstretched hand of shorter defenders or posting them up would generate the kind of efficiencies a modern pace & space offense can generate.

Of course our offense will need to improve by leaps & bounds to make that practical.

Teams like Houston, Dallas, and Denver have had a lot of success with mediocre defenses.

just ignore him hes a jazz fan that has been trolling here since we traded JC to them for his boy Exum
who he thinks should be the starting pg


Hey, if Exum can demonstrate he should be our starting PG for this season and the future, I'm good with that; but I wouldn't hand him the job just because he's 6'5" and isn't incompetent on defense after 6 seasons in the league.

the only problem with exum has always been he isnt really a pg but thats what everyone wanted him to be and he is always hurt
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#48 » by Revenged25 » Mon Dec 7, 2020 8:03 pm

Stillwater wrote:just ignore him hes a jazz fan that has been trolling here since we traded JC to them for his boy Exum
who he thinks should be the starting pg


Pretty sure I just saw him trolling on the Cavs reddit page as well.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#49 » by tundraknight » Tue Dec 8, 2020 1:05 am

https://cavaliersnation.com/2020/12/05/report-some-within-cavs-organization-thought-dylan-windler-was-destined-for-starting-spot-last-season/

Cavaliers organization thought Dylan Windler was destined to become a starter last season.

I like how Bickerstaff is making the SF spot a competition to earn, not given with Okoro, Windler, and Osman.

“We expect through training camp and the preseason a high level of competition at that spot,” said Bickerstaff. “I’m not going to sit here and say or guarantee this or promise that, I’m going to give the guys an opportunity to duel it out and see who earns that spot.”

Overall it seems like we finally have some quality depth at SF which is nice.

Hopefully KPJ gets everything under control because I’d like for him to be the starting SG sometime in the future.

Because I don’t like being undersized on the perimeter with Sexland. I supposed even Windler can get some minutes at SG as well, not just SF. Assuming he’s capable of playing both positions.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#50 » by jbk1234 » Tue Dec 8, 2020 1:16 am

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:just ignore him hes a jazz fan that has been trolling here since we traded JC to them for his boy Exum
who he thinks should be the starting pg


Hey, if Exum can demonstrate he should be our starting PG for this season and the future, I'm good with that; but I wouldn't hand him the job just because he's 6'5" and isn't incompetent on defense after 6 seasons in the league.

the only problem with exum has always been he isnt really a pg but thats what everyone wanted him to be and he is always hurt
The most important ability is availability. I actually liked the idea of Exum playing with Sexton because that's exactly they type of guard Sexton needs to start alongside of. But as you noted, he's hurt a lot and he's still pretty inconsistent.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#51 » by gflem » Tue Dec 8, 2020 3:39 am

Exum is out of the NBA when his contract is up. Maybe a vet min contract at best. Cedi is a bench player on a decent team, Windler is unknown, and Okoro is a rookie who has promise. So, our SF situation isn't a position of depth at this point. Our guard situation is a mess defensively, and with KPJ who knows where that is headed.
Both our starting PF and C positions could or should be gone by the dl. There is a lot to be learned this season, and while I want to be positive I still have to be realistic. I don't think running posters off the Cavs board because they aren't positive in their assessment of the current roster is a good idea. I come to these boards to talk with Cavs fans as well as other teams fans and appreciate (usually) their viewpoints.
Last season I was very critical of the Bielein hiring and all the possible downfalls that came with his hiring, and said so. I was told that he was "more than qualified", which I never said he wasn't. It turned out that much of what I said could happen in the negative sense did. Not that I am any smarter than anyone who disagreed with me, but just because we don't agree with what someone posts doesn't mean that there isn't merit in how they see the team.
Again, I think with potential trades, having to give young players minutes they haven't necessarily earned, and possible front office pushing for development over wins due to a deep draft in 2021 I just don't see the optimism some have for this upcoming season. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#52 » by JonFromVA » Tue Dec 8, 2020 7:41 am

gflem wrote:Exum is out of the NBA when his contract is up. Maybe a vet min contract at best. Cedi is a bench player on a decent team, Windler is unknown, and Okoro is a rookie who has promise. So, our SF situation isn't a position of depth at this point. Our guard situation is a mess defensively, and with KPJ who knows where that is headed.
Both our starting PF and C positions could or should be gone by the dl. There is a lot to be learned this season, and while I want to be positive I still have to be realistic. I don't think running posters off the Cavs board because they aren't positive in their assessment of the current roster is a good idea. I come to these boards to talk with Cavs fans as well as other teams fans and appreciate (usually) their viewpoints.
Last season I was very critical of the Bielein hiring and all the possible downfalls that came with his hiring, and said so. I was told that he was "more than qualified", which I never said he wasn't. It turned out that much of what I said could happen in the negative sense did. Not that I am any smarter than anyone who disagreed with me, but just because we don't agree with what someone posts doesn't mean that there isn't merit in how they see the team.
Again, I think with potential trades, having to give young players minutes they haven't necessarily earned, and possible front office pushing for development over wins due to a deep draft in 2021 I just don't see the optimism some have for this upcoming season. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.


Its easy to be optimistic when your team is undefeated not to mention a big chunk of our team is undeveloped potential.

Reality will set in soon enough.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#53 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:54 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
gflem wrote:Exum is out of the NBA when his contract is up. Maybe a vet min contract at best. Cedi is a bench player on a decent team, Windler is unknown, and Okoro is a rookie who has promise. So, our SF situation isn't a position of depth at this point. Our guard situation is a mess defensively, and with KPJ who knows where that is headed.
Both our starting PF and C positions could or should be gone by the dl. There is a lot to be learned this season, and while I want to be positive I still have to be realistic. I don't think running posters off the Cavs board because they aren't positive in their assessment of the current roster is a good idea. I come to these boards to talk with Cavs fans as well as other teams fans and appreciate (usually) their viewpoints.
Last season I was very critical of the Bielein hiring and all the possible downfalls that came with his hiring, and said so. I was told that he was "more than qualified", which I never said he wasn't. It turned out that much of what I said could happen in the negative sense did. Not that I am any smarter than anyone who disagreed with me, but just because we don't agree with what someone posts doesn't mean that there isn't merit in how they see the team.
Again, I think with potential trades, having to give young players minutes they haven't necessarily earned, and possible front office pushing for development over wins due to a deep draft in 2021 I just don't see the optimism some have for this upcoming season. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.


Its easy to be optimistic when your team is undefeated not to mention a big chunk of our team is undeveloped potential.

Reality will set in soon enough.

Yeah if you cannot be optimistic about the potential for roster development showing itself immediately this season esp after the long offseason and plenty of "me time" for young kids to get work in etc I dont know what to tell you. Obviously it wont equate to wins right away and there is a lot of role establishing that will make it harder to gel and develop chemistry this season but the fact that will be be taking place probably means an uncomfortable by design environment which can help more than hurt most likely as far as getting every player to put more work in than the status quo.
They have the pieces esp if KPJ is able to be involved and with the veteran fc to make some noise this season if they want to win.
The players always do and this young core is probably as hungry for it as any.
The worse case scenario is too much inconsistency with covid impacting player in masks and suits or sitting at home etc instead of staying in the groove
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#54 » by jbk1234 » Wed Dec 9, 2020 6:39 pm

gflem wrote:Exum is out of the NBA when his contract is up. Maybe a vet min contract at best. Cedi is a bench player on a decent team, Windler is unknown, and Okoro is a rookie who has promise. So, our SF situation isn't a position of depth at this point. Our guard situation is a mess defensively, and with KPJ who knows where that is headed.
Both our starting PF and C positions could or should be gone by the dl. There is a lot to be learned this season, and while I want to be positive I still have to be realistic. I don't think running posters off the Cavs board because they aren't positive in their assessment of the current roster is a good idea. I come to these boards to talk with Cavs fans as well as other teams fans and appreciate (usually) their viewpoints.
Last season I was very critical of the Bielein hiring and all the possible downfalls that came with his hiring, and said so. I was told that he was "more than qualified", which I never said he wasn't. It turned out that much of what I said could happen in the negative sense did. Not that I am any smarter than anyone who disagreed with me, but just because we don't agree with what someone posts doesn't mean that there isn't merit in how they see the team.
Again, I think with potential trades, having to give young players minutes they haven't necessarily earned, and possible front office pushing for development over wins due to a deep draft in 2021 I just don't see the optimism some have for this upcoming season. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.


In terms of fans of other teams showing up here just to tell Cavs fans, repeatedly, how much their players suck, I'm not going to allow that as long as I'm a moderator. That's not unique to this team's forum, it's a pretty consistent standard across team forums on Realgm because it doesn't lead to constructive discussion.

I think part of the reason for the optimism is how the Cavs performed after Beilein stepped down. It also looked like, just maybe, Sexton was starting to see the floor a little better. I've been pretty vocal about believing that starting Sexton and Garland in the same backcourt is a blatant act of self-sabotage.

In my mind, a lot is going to come down to how much leeway Bickerstaff actually has from the front office in terms of balancing lineups and who he starts. I think Garland and KPJ are a better backcourt combination than Sexton and KPJ. Players like Windler, Okoro, or Cedi, who don't need to handle the ball to be as effective, are probably better matches with Sexton. If the Sexton/Garland experiment lasts for another half season though, the chances of things working out aren't good.

In terms of trading Drummond or Love, the simple fact is we don't have any young guys behind them and they're not easy pieces to move due to their current salaries. There's also the reality that if the Cavs are ever going to invest a top 10 pick in a big, it's important that the young guards learn how to play with guys like Drummond and Love now. LBJ isn't walking through the door to take the ball out of Kyrie's hands because he's treating Love like a $30M decoy. The longer bad habits are allowed to go unchecked, the harder they are to break, and if that young player is convinced he's already arrived, it's nearly impossible.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#55 » by Revenged25 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:26 pm

So Deni also had an impressive pre-season opener. Still more than happy with Okoro but just goes to show whether it was Okoro or Deni we would've been in a good spot.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#56 » by jbk1234 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:01 pm

Revenged25 wrote:So Deni also had an impressive pre-season opener. Still more than happy with Okoro but just goes to show whether it was Okoro or Deni we would've been in a good spot.


Not that I'm equating either player to Bennett, but Bennett had an impressive preseason his rookie year. With the way Covid is spiraling right now, I don't expect to see real NBA basketball until the second half of the season.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#57 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:49 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:So Deni also had an impressive pre-season opener. Still more than happy with Okoro but just goes to show whether it was Okoro or Deni we would've been in a good spot.


Not that I'm equating either player to Bennett, but Bennett had an impressive preseason his rookie year. With the way Covid is spiraling right now, I don't expect to see real NBA basketball until the second half of the season.


Bennett had a big 4th quarter in pre-season which no doubt raised hopes, but his overall stats were not good.

Okoro showing out .vs. the Pacer's bench shouldn't be taken to mean he's arrived or he'sgoing to be an All-Star as a Rookie, but it's exactly the kind of thing you'd hope to see from a 19 year old future All-Star.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#58 » by jbk1234 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:59 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:So Deni also had an impressive pre-season opener. Still more than happy with Okoro but just goes to show whether it was Okoro or Deni we would've been in a good spot.


Not that I'm equating either player to Bennett, but Bennett had an impressive preseason his rookie year. With the way Covid is spiraling right now, I don't expect to see real NBA basketball until the second half of the season.


Bennett had a big 4th quarter in pre-season which no doubt raised hopes, but his overall stats were not good.

Okoro showing out .vs. the Pacer's bench shouldn't be taken to mean he's arrived or he'sgoing to be an All-Star as a Rookie, but it's exactly the kind of thing you'd hope to see from a 19 year old future All-Star.


I agree. My observation was more about Deni. There have been a lot of hot takes about summer league and/or preseason performances that haven't panned out. Hornets fans thought Miles Bridges was a steal two years ago before the regular season started.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#59 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:52 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Not that I'm equating either player to Bennett, but Bennett had an impressive preseason his rookie year. With the way Covid is spiraling right now, I don't expect to see real NBA basketball until the second half of the season.


Bennett had a big 4th quarter in pre-season which no doubt raised hopes, but his overall stats were not good.

Okoro showing out .vs. the Pacer's bench shouldn't be taken to mean he's arrived or he'sgoing to be an All-Star as a Rookie, but it's exactly the kind of thing you'd hope to see from a 19 year old future All-Star.


I agree. My observation was more about Deni. There have been a lot of hot takes about summer league and/or preseason performances that haven't panned out. Hornets fans thought Miles Bridges was a steal two years ago before the regular season started.


Absolutely, there are no hard and fast rules, but it's certainly more about disproving you don't belong.

Heck, we've seen Michael Carter Williams and Tyreke Evans win rookie of the year with the kind of numbers that made them look like future stars, but it sure didn't work out that way for them.

Or, in the case of Kyrie, his rookie numbers were so impressive for a 19yr old we thought he had a chance to surpass Steph in a few years - but his numbers (let alone impact) simply didn't follow the expected rising development curve; but Steph who is 4 yrs older did keep improving.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#60 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:09 pm

KLove is now listed out tonight Sexton remains listed out, Cedi and Delly are Questionable KPJ is still mia etc.
gonna be a true preseason line up tonight
I really want to see some of Stevens maybe if Cedi is out he'll get some run.
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