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Cavs 2020-21 season

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#81 » by Stillwater » Sat Jan 2, 2021 1:17 am

If DG wants to become like Trae who is the master of manipulating nba officiating getting so many freebies he will likely be an all star in the next couple seasons but Imo that is not the best kind of guard to have in a playoff situation where the gimmies drop off significantly as seen over and over with players like Harden who also is a master of manipulating the rules to his advantage.
I sometimes try to convince myself the league is not letting this happen because it sells seats to have polarizing players in the regular season , but then I come back to reality and must admit I think thats exactly what happens.
Anyway I would love to see DG use that a little more as he tries to finish in the trees where he can at least get to the line when the
shots are not falling. However I dont want a flop artist as the leader of this roster either and much prefer players like Sexton who dont get any calls because they are trying to play without the cheat mode turned on.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#82 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jan 2, 2021 3:44 am

Stillwater wrote:If DG wants to become like Trae who is the master of manipulating nba officiating getting so many freebies he will likely be an all star in the next couple seasons but Imo that is not the best kind of guard to have in a playoff situation where the gimmies drop off significantly as seen over and over with players like Harden who also is a master of manipulating the rules to his advantage.
I sometimes try to convince myself the league is not letting this happen because it sells seats to have polarizing players in the regular season , but then I come back to reality and must admit I think thats exactly what happens.
Anyway I would love to see DG use that a little more as he tries to finish in the trees where he can at least get to the line when the
shots are not falling. However I dont want a flop artist as the leader of this roster either and much prefer players like Sexton who dont get any calls because they are trying to play without the cheat mode turned on.
I'd rather see him continue to hunt for assists.

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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#83 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jan 2, 2021 3:58 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:If DG wants to become like Trae who is the master of manipulating nba officiating getting so many freebies he will likely be an all star in the next couple seasons but Imo that is not the best kind of guard to have in a playoff situation where the gimmies drop off significantly as seen over and over with players like Harden who also is a master of manipulating the rules to his advantage.
I sometimes try to convince myself the league is not letting this happen because it sells seats to have polarizing players in the regular season , but then I come back to reality and must admit I think thats exactly what happens.
Anyway I would love to see DG use that a little more as he tries to finish in the trees where he can at least get to the line when the
shots are not falling. However I dont want a flop artist as the leader of this roster either and much prefer players like Sexton who dont get any calls because they are trying to play without the cheat mode turned on.
I'd rather see him continue to hunt for assists.


I agree, but certainly Trae is doing both. I will say that if/when teams start to respect Darius's shooting, he will have opportunities to draw 3pt fouls due to overaggressiveness and by all means should take advantage of them.

And I think there's a balance that can be achieved too. I don't remember anybody being disgusted by Chauncey Billup's playstyle, but one of the ways the Piston's stayed in the game 5 when LeBron was scoring 29(?) consecutive points was that Billup's would draw fouls.

Darius is averaging just 1.2 FTA's per game so far, so he needs to find some ways to get that up short of risking himself physically.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#84 » by Stillwater » Sat Jan 2, 2021 6:21 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:If DG wants to become like Trae who is the master of manipulating nba officiating getting so many freebies he will likely be an all star in the next couple seasons but Imo that is not the best kind of guard to have in a playoff situation where the gimmies drop off significantly as seen over and over with players like Harden who also is a master of manipulating the rules to his advantage.
I sometimes try to convince myself the league is not letting this happen because it sells seats to have polarizing players in the regular season , but then I come back to reality and must admit I think thats exactly what happens.
Anyway I would love to see DG use that a little more as he tries to finish in the trees where he can at least get to the line when the
shots are not falling. However I dont want a flop artist as the leader of this roster either and much prefer players like Sexton who dont get any calls because they are trying to play without the cheat mode turned on.
I'd rather see him continue to hunt for assists.


I agree, but certainly Trae is doing both. I will say that if/when teams start to respect Darius's shooting, he will have opportunities to draw 3pt fouls due to overaggressiveness and by all means should take advantage of them.

And I think there's a balance that can be achieved too. I don't remember anybody being disgusted by Chauncey Billup's playstyle, but one of the ways the Piston's stayed in the game 5 when LeBron was scoring 29(?) consecutive points was that Billup's would draw fouls.

Darius is averaging just 1.2 FTA's per game so far, so he needs to find some ways to get that up short of risking himself physically.

Yeah I mean players like Trae and Harden Curry etc get those 3 point calls because they make them a lot when not contended... well actually trae doesn't. Anyway what I am more concerned with is how easy it is for small guards to just stop their momentum when a defender esp a big is trailing for a block attempt and bingo back to the line the small guard goes. This happens when there is less than 2% chance the shot would go in etc. I would not be surprised if we see Trae gifted with said calls at least 2 or 3 times today.
IMO it's called savvy because it's legal for him to do this and Garland could take advantage of it as well probably but it is really not something I think is a viable option in the play offs since the refs usually are under more scrutiny for allowing these types of cheap calls.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#85 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jan 2, 2021 7:45 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'd rather see him continue to hunt for assists.


I agree, but certainly Trae is doing both. I will say that if/when teams start to respect Darius's shooting, he will have opportunities to draw 3pt fouls due to overaggressiveness and by all means should take advantage of them.

And I think there's a balance that can be achieved too. I don't remember anybody being disgusted by Chauncey Billup's playstyle, but one of the ways the Piston's stayed in the game 5 when LeBron was scoring 29(?) consecutive points was that Billup's would draw fouls.

Darius is averaging just 1.2 FTA's per game so far, so he needs to find some ways to get that up short of risking himself physically.

Yeah I mean players like Trae and Harden Curry etc get those 3 point calls because they make them a lot when not contended... well actually trae doesn't. Anyway what I am more concerned with is how easy it is for small guards to just stop their momentum when a defender esp a big is trailing for a block attempt and bingo back to the line the small guard goes. This happens when there is less than 2% chance the shot would go in etc. I would not be surprised if we see Trae gifted with said calls at least 2 or 3 times today.
IMO it's called savvy because it's legal for him to do this and Garland could take advantage of it as well probably but it is really not something I think is a viable option in the play offs since the refs usually are under more scrutiny for allowing these types of cheap calls.


The trick is becoming a contender again ... figuring out the refs and earning those calls is a rite of passage usually achieved by beating the other team and the refs.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#86 » by Stillwater » Sat Jan 2, 2021 9:06 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I agree, but certainly Trae is doing both. I will say that if/when teams start to respect Darius's shooting, he will have opportunities to draw 3pt fouls due to overaggressiveness and by all means should take advantage of them.

And I think there's a balance that can be achieved too. I don't remember anybody being disgusted by Chauncey Billup's playstyle, but one of the ways the Piston's stayed in the game 5 when LeBron was scoring 29(?) consecutive points was that Billup's would draw fouls.

Darius is averaging just 1.2 FTA's per game so far, so he needs to find some ways to get that up short of risking himself physically.

Yeah I mean players like Trae and Harden Curry etc get those 3 point calls because they make them a lot when not contended... well actually trae doesn't. Anyway what I am more concerned with is how easy it is for small guards to just stop their momentum when a defender esp a big is trailing for a block attempt and bingo back to the line the small guard goes. This happens when there is less than 2% chance the shot would go in etc. I would not be surprised if we see Trae gifted with said calls at least 2 or 3 times today.
IMO it's called savvy because it's legal for him to do this and Garland could take advantage of it as well probably but it is really not something I think is a viable option in the play offs since the refs usually are under more scrutiny for allowing these types of cheap calls.


The trick is becoming a contender again ... figuring out the refs and earning those calls is a rite of passage usually achieved by beating the other team and the refs.

Yeah it should be that way but...it aint in this instance not imo.
More reasonable to think actually is a gift given by the league in this circumstance to a seat filling underdog guard who is the epitome of regular season cash cow the way he finds bail out calls and bail out lob threats in Collins and now Capella and eventually Okongwu.The fact he is a deep bomb threat also ups the interest from Steph homers around the nba landscape. But trae is nothing like Steph as a shooter really. He is going to be around for a long time but he wont defend not like our guards are now showing interest in anyway and even if he does keep getting the cheater calls as I like to consider them come playoff time he will get run off the court when playoff teams expose his poor defense.
I dont want DG to be that guy but I think its probably his best chance of success in the reg season so it wouldnt surprise me if he takes that route given his similarities as a elite ball handler with court vision who has a low release from deep and struggles to finish in the trees without creating angles etc.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#87 » by Stillwater » Mon Jan 4, 2021 10:18 pm

https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/01/04/j-b-bickerstaff-crushes-disrespectful-haters-whove-criticized-collin-sexton/
Interesting but not really news imo. Sexton has been disrespected since college and as far I am concerned the added chip it gives him is a good thing
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#88 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 6, 2021 2:21 am

so now he is going to miss 2 months? wtf
not good for our defense and even worse if they planned on flipping him at the dl.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#89 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 6, 2021 3:38 pm

Stillwater wrote:https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/01/04/j-b-bickerstaff-crushes-disrespectful-haters-whove-criticized-collin-sexton/
Interesting but not really news imo. Sexton has been disrespected since college and as far I am concerned the added chip it gives him is a good thing


JBB and Koby have made the Sexland backcourt viable this season and it's going to take a while for people (including Cavs fans) to get used to the idea. I mean who cares how many assists Collin dishes, boards he grabs, or mistakes he makes on defense when the TEAM as a whole is dishing well, rebounding well, and defending well?

We're doing something we've rarely done well in this organization and that's let our players play to their strengths rather than exposing their weaknesses. That goes for the young players and the vets and that helps the head coach actually be heard and followed.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#90 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 6, 2021 4:17 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/01/04/j-b-bickerstaff-crushes-disrespectful-haters-whove-criticized-collin-sexton/
Interesting but not really news imo. Sexton has been disrespected since college and as far I am concerned the added chip it gives him is a good thing


JBB and Koby have made the Sexland backcourt viable this season and it's going to take a while for people (including Cavs fans) to get used to the idea. I mean who cares how many assists Collin dishes, boards he grabs, or mistakes he makes on defense when the TEAM as a whole is dishing well, rebounding well, and defending well?

We're doing something we've rarely done well in this organization and that's let our players play to their strengths rather than exposing their weaknesses. That goes for the young players and the vets and that helps the head coach actually be heard and followed.

Sure discredit him more why dont you...lol
Team having a nice start forced the media to start talking about sexton a little bit because it proves somewhat that his run under jbb wasnt a fluke going into the covid shut down. What is ignored is the key difference is Garland is not as terrible as he was most of last season and The team is playing hustle defense which never existed last season.
The backcourt small window of success is probably going to be fairly unsuccessful without a high level defender like exum in the mix so lets just hope Okoro can get healthy fast or dotson/cedi step it up.
BTW if DG cant get out there and they keep losing that will of course change the blame to fall on sexton again im sure even though the main reason will be the drop in defense not his 26 points per contest
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#91 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 6, 2021 4:51 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:https://cavaliersnation.com/2021/01/04/j-b-bickerstaff-crushes-disrespectful-haters-whove-criticized-collin-sexton/
Interesting but not really news imo. Sexton has been disrespected since college and as far I am concerned the added chip it gives him is a good thing


JBB and Koby have made the Sexland backcourt viable this season and it's going to take a while for people (including Cavs fans) to get used to the idea. I mean who cares how many assists Collin dishes, boards he grabs, or mistakes he makes on defense when the TEAM as a whole is dishing well, rebounding well, and defending well?

We're doing something we've rarely done well in this organization and that's let our players play to their strengths rather than exposing their weaknesses. That goes for the young players and the vets and that helps the head coach actually be heard and followed.

Sure discredit him more why dont you...lol
Team having a nice start forced the media to start talking about sexton a little bit because it proves somewhat that his run under jbb wasnt a fluke going into the covid shut down. What is ignored is the key difference is Garland is not as terrible as he was most of last season and The team is playing hustle defense which never existed last season.
The backcourt small window of success is probably going to be fairly unsuccessful without a high level defender like exum in the mix so lets just hope Okoro can get healthy fast or dotson/cedi step it up.
BTW if DG cant get out there and they keep losing that will of course change the blame to fall on sexton again im sure even though the main reason will be the drop in defense not his 26 points per contest


If DG can't play, the main problem will be that we don't have a point guard. Collin's 20+ ppg is valuable as long as all the other parts of the team are working. Exum's absence will primarily hurt the rotations when Darius sits which is problematic as well.

With Delly questionable, we may very well give Dotson a shot to expand his role, but he peaked at 1.3 apg in college, so I sure don't have my hopes up. Koby needs to be hitting the phone because we can slip quite a bit in 3-4 weeks ... potentially right out of the playoff picture.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#92 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:02 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JBB and Koby have made the Sexland backcourt viable this season and it's going to take a while for people (including Cavs fans) to get used to the idea. I mean who cares how many assists Collin dishes, boards he grabs, or mistakes he makes on defense when the TEAM as a whole is dishing well, rebounding well, and defending well?

We're doing something we've rarely done well in this organization and that's let our players play to their strengths rather than exposing their weaknesses. That goes for the young players and the vets and that helps the head coach actually be heard and followed.

Sure discredit him more why dont you...lol
Team having a nice start forced the media to start talking about sexton a little bit because it proves somewhat that his run under jbb wasnt a fluke going into the covid shut down. What is ignored is the key difference is Garland is not as terrible as he was most of last season and The team is playing hustle defense which never existed last season.
The backcourt small window of success is probably going to be fairly unsuccessful without a high level defender like exum in the mix so lets just hope Okoro can get healthy fast or dotson/cedi step it up.
BTW if DG cant get out there and they keep losing that will of course change the blame to fall on sexton again im sure even though the main reason will be the drop in defense not his 26 points per contest


If DG can't play, the main problem will be that we don't have a point guard. Collin's 20+ ppg is valuable as long as all the other parts of the team are working. Exum's absence will primarily hurt the rotations when Darius sits which is problematic as well.

With Delly questionable, we may very well give Dotson a shot to expand his role, but he peaked at 1.3 apg in college, so I sure don't have my hopes up. Koby needs to be hitting the phone because we can slip quite a bit in 3-4 weeks ... potentially right out of the playoff picture.

I think it's laughable you are still calling Sexton a non point guard just because he is a score first one. He already has shown under JBB that he can play within a unselfish ball movement scheme and still get his 20+ per . The wins are going to be far less without Windler KPJ as back up options still out with 2 way players like Okoro and esp Exum unavailable creating offense though defense which was the real reason they won a few not Garlands passing even though he did well in that dept.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#93 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 6, 2021 8:53 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Sure discredit him more why dont you...lol
Team having a nice start forced the media to start talking about sexton a little bit because it proves somewhat that his run under jbb wasnt a fluke going into the covid shut down. What is ignored is the key difference is Garland is not as terrible as he was most of last season and The team is playing hustle defense which never existed last season.
The backcourt small window of success is probably going to be fairly unsuccessful without a high level defender like exum in the mix so lets just hope Okoro can get healthy fast or dotson/cedi step it up.
BTW if DG cant get out there and they keep losing that will of course change the blame to fall on sexton again im sure even though the main reason will be the drop in defense not his 26 points per contest


If DG can't play, the main problem will be that we don't have a point guard. Collin's 20+ ppg is valuable as long as all the other parts of the team are working. Exum's absence will primarily hurt the rotations when Darius sits which is problematic as well.

With Delly questionable, we may very well give Dotson a shot to expand his role, but he peaked at 1.3 apg in college, so I sure don't have my hopes up. Koby needs to be hitting the phone because we can slip quite a bit in 3-4 weeks ... potentially right out of the playoff picture.


I think it's laughable you are still calling Sexton a non point guard just because he is a score first one. He already has shown under JBB that he can play within a unselfish ball movement scheme and still get his 20+ per . The wins are going to be far less without Windler KPJ as back up options still out with 2 way players like Okoro and esp Exum unavailable creating offense though defense which was the real reason they won a few not Garlands passing even though he did well in that dept.


I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, but being the smallest player on the floor, participating in a ball movement offense, and dishing 2 assists with 6 turnovers when in the absence of any of the actual point guards on the roster doesn't suddenly make Collin one.

I know you'll never look at the numbers, but at the moment and especially after that last clunker ... Darius is dominating the team in net offensive rating and net defensive rating. DG's overall net rating is +16.9. Collin isn't even in the same ballpark at -3.5.

Okoro's numbers have also done nothing but shoot higher and higher since he's been out, so, it will definitely help to get him back.

If the Cavs are going to be any sort of a factor this season, Collin is going to continue to need help on both sides of the ball so he can focus on what he does well (score the ball).
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#94 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 6, 2021 11:33 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
If DG can't play, the main problem will be that we don't have a point guard. Collin's 20+ ppg is valuable as long as all the other parts of the team are working. Exum's absence will primarily hurt the rotations when Darius sits which is problematic as well.

With Delly questionable, we may very well give Dotson a shot to expand his role, but he peaked at 1.3 apg in college, so I sure don't have my hopes up. Koby needs to be hitting the phone because we can slip quite a bit in 3-4 weeks ... potentially right out of the playoff picture.


I think it's laughable you are still calling Sexton a non point guard just because he is a score first one. He already has shown under JBB that he can play within a unselfish ball movement scheme and still get his 20+ per . The wins are going to be far less without Windler KPJ as back up options still out with 2 way players like Okoro and esp Exum unavailable creating offense though defense which was the real reason they won a few not Garlands passing even though he did well in that dept.


I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, but being the smallest player on the floor, participating in a ball movement offense, and dishing 2 assists with 6 turnovers when in the absence of any of the actual point guards on the roster doesn't suddenly make Collin one.

I know you'll never look at the numbers, but at the moment and especially after that last clunker ... Darius is dominating the team in net offensive rating and net defensive rating. DG's overall net rating is +16.9. Collin isn't even in the same ballpark at -3.5.

Okoro's numbers have also done nothing but shoot higher and higher since he's been out, so, it will definitely help to get him back.

If the Cavs are going to be any sort of a factor this season, Collin is going to continue to need help on both sides of the ball so he can focus on what he does well (score the ball).

You do realize Sexton was not initiating the offense most of the game right? JBB shifted everything with Dotson and basically Cedi had to come in right away and do a lot of creating after Dante dropped which ruined the game plan. Despite DG not playing the key problem was more the lack of defense and I am not suggesting the team is better without DG at this point but I am saying that without the ramped up defense top to bottom the games are lost regardless of how many easy buckets DG passes up to get a dime in for an easier bucket for example.( which is good smart bb )But as far as Sexton suggesting he must play within the offense creating lots of opportunities across the roster by his creation instead of just getting some buckets based on his stats alone you would conclude he doesnt but in fact he does and he is creating a lot of kick out opportunities and in the last game for example few were converted otherwise the dime total is 2-3 times as many... DG dumping off passes in traffic in the lane and padding his dime totals is no better than Sexton making nice passes that are not converted if it means Sexton passed up getting another 2 or 3 points on the board each possesion that happens.
The entire rotation was messed up in the last one with no DG and them suddenly no Exum.
We shall see how thye approach the game tonight, but I dont expect Sexton to create any more than he did last time, which was more than enough for a score first guard, the only question is does his teammates convert the potential dimes or do they pass up looks he gives them and give him back the ball or give it to somebody else whos converting
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#95 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 7, 2021 12:19 am

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
I think it's laughable you are still calling Sexton a non point guard just because he is a score first one. He already has shown under JBB that he can play within a unselfish ball movement scheme and still get his 20+ per . The wins are going to be far less without Windler KPJ as back up options still out with 2 way players like Okoro and esp Exum unavailable creating offense though defense which was the real reason they won a few not Garlands passing even though he did well in that dept.


I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, but being the smallest player on the floor, participating in a ball movement offense, and dishing 2 assists with 6 turnovers when in the absence of any of the actual point guards on the roster doesn't suddenly make Collin one.

I know you'll never look at the numbers, but at the moment and especially after that last clunker ... Darius is dominating the team in net offensive rating and net defensive rating. DG's overall net rating is +16.9. Collin isn't even in the same ballpark at -3.5.

Okoro's numbers have also done nothing but shoot higher and higher since he's been out, so, it will definitely help to get him back.

If the Cavs are going to be any sort of a factor this season, Collin is going to continue to need help on both sides of the ball so he can focus on what he does well (score the ball).

You do realize Sexton was not initiating the offense most of the game right? JBB shifted everything with Dotson and basically Cedi had to come in right away and do a lot of creating after Dante dropped which ruined the game plan. Despite DG not playing the key problem was more the lack of defense and I am not suggesting the team is better without DG at this point but I am saying that without the ramped up defense top to bottom the games are lost regardless of how many easy buckets DG passes up to get a dime in for an easier bucket for example.( which is good smart bb )But as far as Sexton suggesting he must play within the offense creating lots of opportunities across the roster by his creation instead of just getting some buckets based on his stats alone you would conclude he doesnt but in fact he does and he is creating a lot of kick out opportunities and in the last game for example few were converted otherwise the dime total is 2-3 times as many... DG dumping off passes in traffic in the lane and padding his dime totals is no better than Sexton making nice passes that are not converted if it means Sexton passed up getting another 2 or 3 points on the board each possesion that happens.
The entire rotation was messed up in the last one with no DG and them suddenly no Exum.
We shall see how thye approach the game tonight, but I dont expect Sexton to create any more than he did last time, which was more than enough for a score first guard, the only question is does his teammates convert the potential dimes or do they pass up looks he gives them and give him back the ball or give it to somebody else whos converting


How does any of that demonstrate that Collin can play PG? And what are you suggesting is going to happen?

Is JBB going to start believing that Sexton is a PG and stop trying to use Dotson or Osman who clearly are not ... and our offensive struggles will be cured?

Surely (hopefully) our defense should be in better shape with Okoro back. That should at least make up for Exum's absence on that end of the floor, but Exum was our backup PG.

If you're suggesting we don't need a PG and can just rely on ball movement that seems to contradict your belief that Collin is a PG.

Personally, I'm fine if we can hold Orlando to 103 points again. I think the trick for the Cavs will be scoring more than that without a single PG available.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#96 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:20 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, but being the smallest player on the floor, participating in a ball movement offense, and dishing 2 assists with 6 turnovers when in the absence of any of the actual point guards on the roster doesn't suddenly make Collin one.

I know you'll never look at the numbers, but at the moment and especially after that last clunker ... Darius is dominating the team in net offensive rating and net defensive rating. DG's overall net rating is +16.9. Collin isn't even in the same ballpark at -3.5.

Okoro's numbers have also done nothing but shoot higher and higher since he's been out, so, it will definitely help to get him back.

If the Cavs are going to be any sort of a factor this season, Collin is going to continue to need help on both sides of the ball so he can focus on what he does well (score the ball).

You do realize Sexton was not initiating the offense most of the game right? JBB shifted everything with Dotson and basically Cedi had to come in right away and do a lot of creating after Dante dropped which ruined the game plan. Despite DG not playing the key problem was more the lack of defense and I am not suggesting the team is better without DG at this point but I am saying that without the ramped up defense top to bottom the games are lost regardless of how many easy buckets DG passes up to get a dime in for an easier bucket for example.( which is good smart bb )But as far as Sexton suggesting he must play within the offense creating lots of opportunities across the roster by his creation instead of just getting some buckets based on his stats alone you would conclude he doesnt but in fact he does and he is creating a lot of kick out opportunities and in the last game for example few were converted otherwise the dime total is 2-3 times as many... DG dumping off passes in traffic in the lane and padding his dime totals is no better than Sexton making nice passes that are not converted if it means Sexton passed up getting another 2 or 3 points on the board each possesion that happens.
The entire rotation was messed up in the last one with no DG and them suddenly no Exum.
We shall see how thye approach the game tonight, but I dont expect Sexton to create any more than he did last time, which was more than enough for a score first guard, the only question is does his teammates convert the potential dimes or do they pass up looks he gives them and give him back the ball or give it to somebody else whos converting


How does any of that demonstrate that Collin can play PG? And what are you suggesting is going to happen?

Is JBB going to start believing that Sexton is a PG and stop trying to use Dotson or Osman who clearly are not ... and our offensive struggles will be cured?

Surely (hopefully) our defense should be in better shape with Okoro back. That should at least make up for Exum's absence on that end of the floor, but Exum was our backup PG.

If you're suggesting we don't need a PG and can just rely on ball movement that seems to contradict your belief that Collin is a PG.

Personally, I'm fine if we can hold Orlando to 103 points again. I think the trick for the Cavs will be scoring more than that without a single PG available.

Hes a combo guard by definition or a score first guard if you prefer but playing any role besides the full time initiator on a team playing the position by committee basically proves further the expectation of him to pass first is looney. He must continue to score first and if he gets bail out options take them more but beyond that he is already doing more in a non pg role to play within the offense and move the ball for the sake of the team than he probably should be expected too given the ops he passes up for himself to score 40 a night etc.
He does appear to be in a point role today a little bit more by committee and Okoro looks good in there next too him, but Cedi is again streaking.
If Sexton and Dotson are out for any time after the last minute injuries I dont expect to win another game for awhile.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#97 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 7, 2021 4:47 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:You do realize Sexton was not initiating the offense most of the game right? JBB shifted everything with Dotson and basically Cedi had to come in right away and do a lot of creating after Dante dropped which ruined the game plan. Despite DG not playing the key problem was more the lack of defense and I am not suggesting the team is better without DG at this point but I am saying that without the ramped up defense top to bottom the games are lost regardless of how many easy buckets DG passes up to get a dime in for an easier bucket for example.( which is good smart bb )But as far as Sexton suggesting he must play within the offense creating lots of opportunities across the roster by his creation instead of just getting some buckets based on his stats alone you would conclude he doesnt but in fact he does and he is creating a lot of kick out opportunities and in the last game for example few were converted otherwise the dime total is 2-3 times as many... DG dumping off passes in traffic in the lane and padding his dime totals is no better than Sexton making nice passes that are not converted if it means Sexton passed up getting another 2 or 3 points on the board each possesion that happens.
The entire rotation was messed up in the last one with no DG and them suddenly no Exum.
We shall see how thye approach the game tonight, but I dont expect Sexton to create any more than he did last time, which was more than enough for a score first guard, the only question is does his teammates convert the potential dimes or do they pass up looks he gives them and give him back the ball or give it to somebody else whos converting


How does any of that demonstrate that Collin can play PG? And what are you suggesting is going to happen?

Is JBB going to start believing that Sexton is a PG and stop trying to use Dotson or Osman who clearly are not ... and our offensive struggles will be cured?

Surely (hopefully) our defense should be in better shape with Okoro back. That should at least make up for Exum's absence on that end of the floor, but Exum was our backup PG.

If you're suggesting we don't need a PG and can just rely on ball movement that seems to contradict your belief that Collin is a PG.

Personally, I'm fine if we can hold Orlando to 103 points again. I think the trick for the Cavs will be scoring more than that without a single PG available.

Hes a combo guard by definition or a score first guard if you prefer but playing any role besides the full time initiator on a team playing the position by committee basically proves further the expectation of him to pass first is looney. He must continue to score first and if he gets bail out options take them more but beyond that he is already doing more in a non pg role to play within the offense and move the ball for the sake of the team than he probably should be expected too given the ops he passes up for himself to score 40 a night etc.
He does appear to be in a point role today a little bit more by committee and Okoro looks good in there next too him, but Cedi is again streaking.
If Sexton and Dotson are out for any time after the last minute injuries I dont expect to win another game for awhile.


I prefer SG because that's the position Collin was playing before all our PG's went down.

When you insist that Collin is a PG, you're the one implying that he should be doing more things to facilitate and run the team ... or else you're just using the term without understanding what a PG is supposed to do.

For Collin to be able to focus on scoring, we need actual PG play from elsewhere on the team. Plain and simple. Collin can go and get his, but someone else has to lift the other players and since Collin is so good on open shots ... someone needs to help set him up too.
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#98 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 7, 2021 6:59 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
How does any of that demonstrate that Collin can play PG? And what are you suggesting is going to happen?

Is JBB going to start believing that Sexton is a PG and stop trying to use Dotson or Osman who clearly are not ... and our offensive struggles will be cured?

Surely (hopefully) our defense should be in better shape with Okoro back. That should at least make up for Exum's absence on that end of the floor, but Exum was our backup PG.

If you're suggesting we don't need a PG and can just rely on ball movement that seems to contradict your belief that Collin is a PG.

Personally, I'm fine if we can hold Orlando to 103 points again. I think the trick for the Cavs will be scoring more than that without a single PG available.

Hes a combo guard by definition or a score first guard if you prefer but playing any role besides the full time initiator on a team playing the position by committee basically proves further the expectation of him to pass first is looney. He must continue to score first and if he gets bail out options take them more but beyond that he is already doing more in a non pg role to play within the offense and move the ball for the sake of the team than he probably should be expected too given the ops he passes up for himself to score 40 a night etc.
He does appear to be in a point role today a little bit more by committee and Okoro looks good in there next too him, but Cedi is again streaking.
If Sexton and Dotson are out for any time after the last minute injuries I dont expect to win another game for awhile.


I prefer SG because that's the position Collin was playing before all our PG's went down.

When you insist that Collin is a PG, you're the one implying that he should be doing more things to facilitate and run the team ... or else you're just using the term without understanding what a PG is supposed to do.

For Collin to be able to focus on scoring, we need actual PG play from elsewhere on the team. Plain and simple. Collin can go and get his, but someone else has to lift the other players and since Collin is so good on open shots ... someone needs to help set him up too.

I'm going to pretend I did not just read that.
wtf with the insults man?
Sexton IS more than capable of creating enough offense but he has rarely been surrounded by players who can play at his speed so it puts him out of sync with them and it pushes him to be the focused scoring option and so if they put him in a position to facilitate more it doesnt work without another Sexton for him to pass too to carry the team
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#99 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 7, 2021 7:22 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Hes a combo guard by definition or a score first guard if you prefer but playing any role besides the full time initiator on a team playing the position by committee basically proves further the expectation of him to pass first is looney. He must continue to score first and if he gets bail out options take them more but beyond that he is already doing more in a non pg role to play within the offense and move the ball for the sake of the team than he probably should be expected too given the ops he passes up for himself to score 40 a night etc.
He does appear to be in a point role today a little bit more by committee and Okoro looks good in there next too him, but Cedi is again streaking.
If Sexton and Dotson are out for any time after the last minute injuries I dont expect to win another game for awhile.


I prefer SG because that's the position Collin was playing before all our PG's went down.

When you insist that Collin is a PG, you're the one implying that he should be doing more things to facilitate and run the team ... or else you're just using the term without understanding what a PG is supposed to do.

For Collin to be able to focus on scoring, we need actual PG play from elsewhere on the team. Plain and simple. Collin can go and get his, but someone else has to lift the other players and since Collin is so good on open shots ... someone needs to help set him up too.

I'm going to pretend I did not just read that.
wtf with the insults man?
Sexton IS more than capable of creating enough offense but he has rarely been surrounded by players who can play at his speed so it puts him out of sync with them and it pushes him to be the focused scoring option and so if they put him in a position to facilitate more it doesnt work without another Sexton for him to pass too to carry the team


Please do not pretend you didn't read that.

Collin Sexton DOES NOT know how to run a team. He cannot generate sufficient offense to be a team's primary play-maker and he shouldn't strictly be creating everything for himself either.

His coach doesn't think so. His teammates do not think so. Nobody on RealGM other than you thinks so.

It's high time you understood this and dealt with the present reality. Collin is not a point-guard. He's a 6'2" shooting guard that even in the absence of an actual PG on the team can't leverage the attention he draws to generate even 4 apg.

Finally if you're actually concerned with the tone of this discussion, I suggest you examine your use of phrases like "laughable" and "looney".
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Re: Cavs 2020-21 season 

Post#100 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 7, 2021 7:35 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I prefer SG because that's the position Collin was playing before all our PG's went down.

When you insist that Collin is a PG, you're the one implying that he should be doing more things to facilitate and run the team ... or else you're just using the term without understanding what a PG is supposed to do.

For Collin to be able to focus on scoring, we need actual PG play from elsewhere on the team. Plain and simple. Collin can go and get his, but someone else has to lift the other players and since Collin is so good on open shots ... someone needs to help set him up too.

I'm going to pretend I did not just read that.
wtf with the insults man?
Sexton IS more than capable of creating enough offense but he has rarely been surrounded by players who can play at his speed so it puts him out of sync with them and it pushes him to be the focused scoring option and so if they put him in a position to facilitate more it doesnt work without another Sexton for him to pass too to carry the team


Please do not pretend you didn't read that.

Collin Sexton DOES NOT know how to run a team. He cannot generate sufficient offense to be a team's primary play-maker and he shouldn't strictly be creating everything for himself either.

His coach doesn't think so. His teammates do not think so. Nobody on RealGM other than you thinks so.

It's high time you understood this and dealt with the present reality. Collin is not a point-guard. He's a 6'2" shooting guard that even in the absence of an actual PG on the team can't leverage the attention he draws to generate even 4 apg.

Finally if you're actually concerned with the tone of this discussion, I suggest you examine your use of phrases like "laughable" and "looney".

I'd say you have never played basketball at a high level at all if you think traditional point guards are the norm in the pro league at this point. having one playmaker bringing the ball up the floor is not a winning formula at that level because its too easy to defend. having multiple players within the system that shoot and make their shots in rhythm can open opportunities for anyone to make the right pass but without those weapons at your disposal it really doesnt matter how many reads your main ball handler is making.
I agree he is not going to wow you with high level passes or reads but if the roster made half the shots they took in the past two games you would have no argument so that falls on them not him
There are no valid legal arguments that people have any right to not wear masks in public at this point. Being asymptomatic or unaware if you are positive, does not make you exempt from any obligations to ensure society is free from your germs.

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