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preseason opportunities

Moderator: jbk1234

of these pick ups fighting for spots who do look forward to seeing the most in preseason

Stevens
1
6%
Maker
6
38%
Matthews
1
6%
Dotson
0
No votes
Bolden
2
13%
Mooney
0
No votes
Randolph
0
No votes
only interested in Okoro Windler etc
3
19%
other aka current core players only
2
13%
wade and anyone else I didnt list
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#21 » by Stillwater » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:22 am

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Yeah I mean a guy who is known as a 3pt specialist airballing 3 threes and another off the side of the backboard is not a good look

interesting because although he was a highly efficient shooter in college I always thought the sell as a first round prospect was mainly his bbiq as a cutter moving without the ball and making plays within the flow of a good offense sort of like a Gordon Hayward archtype but of course the best of him wont shine through playing on an inefficiently run offense around him.


Stillwater, my man, use the punctuation and enter button for new paragraph hahaha

It hurts my eyes reading your posts sometimes

yeah I used to be a screen writer err 8-)
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#22 » by LivingLegend » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:56 pm

Super impressed by Okoro. From what his teammates said about him in camp + what we saw shooting yesterday I think the whole 'he doesn't have a jumper' thing was probably overblown. If he can just shoot a easy 32-34% from three he will be just fine
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#23 » by JonFromVA » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:20 pm

Yep, they've been talking during camp that Okoro's jumper looks fine and this was our first seeing it for ourselves. We also got to see some of that winning instinct we've been told about, even though we have to keep in mind both teams had flushed their usual starters.

Early in the game, Indiana's defense was packing the paint and playing very aggressive, and we were unable to generate much offense. We need to improve that.

Windler started feeling comfortable by the end of the game, so likely this was just a long time coming for him and the butterflies and anticipation were too much.

Maker and Dotson were pleasantly surprising, but again, same caution about playing well .vs. other deep reserves.

Cedi seems more than ready to compete to keep his SF spot. If Okoro is ready ... the shake-out may very well turn out to be at the guard position, albeit I still insist they can use some of what both Garland and Sexton bring.
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#24 » by jbk1234 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:22 pm

LivingLegend wrote:I see every member on the Cavs are still god awful and incapable of throwigt entry passes without turning it over
It's really quite remarkable. It's a skill but not one so difficult that you can have a roster full of guards/wings selected in the first round, four of whom in the top 10, and none of them can do it.

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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#25 » by Stillwater » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:05 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:I see every member on the Cavs are still god awful and incapable of throwigt entry passes without turning it over
It's really quite remarkable. It's a skill but not one so difficult that you can have a roster full of guards/wings selected in the first round, four of whom in the top 10, and none of them can do it.

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none that were playing yesterday :wink:
yeah its actually pretty funny how insane Indy is about defense even in preseason its really their card imo. what I liked was how Dipo struggled against the rook...thats a damn good sign Okoros skill on that side of the ball is better than the box scores showed at Auburn
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#26 » by jbk1234 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:32 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:I see every member on the Cavs are still god awful and incapable of throwigt entry passes without turning it over
It's really quite remarkable. It's a skill but not one so difficult that you can have a roster full of guards/wings selected in the first round, four of whom in the top 10, and none of them can do it.

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none that were playing yesterday :wink:
yeah its actually pretty funny how insane Indy is about defense even in preseason its really their card imo. what I liked was how Dipo struggled against the rook...thats a damn good sign Okoros skill on that side of the ball is better than the box scores showed at Auburn
I mean Okoro, Exum, and Garland were all top 5 picks. The only two guards who didn't play were Sexton and KPJ, neither of whom are known for their passing. They're all young, but at some point it's got to become a priority for the organization. If you can't play an efficient half court set in the postseason, then you're never getting out of the first round.

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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#27 » by Stillwater » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:47 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:It's really quite remarkable. It's a skill but not one so difficult that you can have a roster full of guards/wings selected in the first round, four of whom in the top 10, and none of them can do it.

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none that were playing yesterday :wink:
yeah its actually pretty funny how insane Indy is about defense even in preseason its really their card imo. what I liked was how Dipo struggled against the rook...thats a damn good sign Okoros skill on that side of the ball is better than the box scores showed at Auburn
I mean Okoro, Exum, and Garland were all top 5 picks. The only two guards who didn't play were Sexton and KPJ, neither of whom are known for their passing. They're all young, but at some point it's got to become a priority for the organization. If you can't play an efficient half court set in the postseason, then you're never getting out of the first round.

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yeah I guess I dont really care about any of it at this stage given they are not a playoff team anyway and I attribute the turnovers to rust more than anything but the struggles getting the ball in was all INDY defense imo
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#28 » by jbk1234 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:23 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:none that were playing yesterday :wink:
yeah its actually pretty funny how insane Indy is about defense even in preseason its really their card imo. what I liked was how Dipo struggled against the rook...thats a damn good sign Okoros skill on that side of the ball is better than the box scores showed at Auburn
I mean Okoro, Exum, and Garland were all top 5 picks. The only two guards who didn't play were Sexton and KPJ, neither of whom are known for their passing. They're all young, but at some point it's got to become a priority for the organization. If you can't play an efficient half court set in the postseason, then you're never getting out of the first round.

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yeah I guess I dont really care about any of it at this stage given they are not a playoff team anyway and I attribute the turnovers to rust more than anything but the struggles getting the ball in was all INDY defense imo
You're either learning to play the game the right way, or you're not, and very, very few players develop additional skill sets after they come off their rookie contracts.

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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#29 » by Stillwater » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:57 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I mean Okoro, Exum, and Garland were all top 5 picks. The only two guards who didn't play were Sexton and KPJ, neither of whom are known for their passing. They're all young, but at some point it's got to become a priority for the organization. If you can't play an efficient half court set in the postseason, then you're never getting out of the first round.

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yeah I guess I dont really care about any of it at this stage given they are not a playoff team anyway and I attribute the turnovers to rust more than anything but the struggles getting the ball in was all INDY defense imo
You're either learning to play the game the right way, or you're not, and very, very few players develop additional skill sets after they come off their rookie contracts.

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I think maybe they are learning these things just not executing them but I hear you
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#30 » by JonFromVA » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:24 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I mean Okoro, Exum, and Garland were all top 5 picks. The only two guards who didn't play were Sexton and KPJ, neither of whom are known for their passing. They're all young, but at some point it's got to become a priority for the organization. If you can't play an efficient half court set in the postseason, then you're never getting out of the first round.

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yeah I guess I dont really care about any of it at this stage given they are not a playoff team anyway and I attribute the turnovers to rust more than anything but the struggles getting the ball in was all INDY defense imo
You're either learning to play the game the right way, or you're not, and very, very few players develop additional skill sets after they come off their rookie contracts


Over the years, I've seen a whole lot of stuff corrected that some fans never thought would be - and otoh - some that never did get fixed. Can't say there's a formula here (beyond a level of willingness), but I'm 0% worried about inbounding when some of these guys have only practiced for a couple of weeks together.
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#31 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:19 pm

DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#32 » by JonFromVA » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:38 pm

Stillwater wrote:DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it


I'm sure Darius appreciates your courtesy. 8-)

But, his night was done in the 3rd quarter of the game before the teams went to their deep benches.

Personally, I'd like to see Darius evolve as a floor general - someone who can take players aside and adjust the offense when they're getting stagnant; but that may take a while. The starters struggled to create movement, and maybe Sexton would have helped with his drives, or maybe Okoro and Cedi just needed to be doing more cutting and screening. Whatever ... our floor spacing stunk, and we weren't creating lanes and open shots allowing Indiana to pack the paint.

Or ... it just might had been the first game of the preseason ...
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#33 » by Stillwater » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:56 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it


I'm sure Darius appreciates your courtesy. 8-)

But, his night was done in the 3rd quarter of the game before the teams went to their deep benches.

Personally, I'd like to see Darius evolve as a floor general - someone who can take players aside and adjust the offense when they're getting stagnant; but that may take a while. The starters struggled to create movement, and maybe Sexton would have helped with his drives, or maybe Okoro and Cedi just needed to be doing more cutting and screening. Whatever ... our floor spacing stunk, and we weren't creating lanes and open shots allowing Indiana to pack the paint.

Or ... it just might had been the first game of the preseason ...

oh its early but Im not as hopeful as you are at all
Because its the preseason I expected more from DG not less
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#34 » by jbk1234 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:54 am

Stillwater wrote:DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it
I'd be very interested in what it is you believe, specifically, that Sekou has shown in the NBA.

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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#35 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:55 am

I like Bolden still quite a bit and think he might be a tad underrated as far as long term upside. the frame length iq and obvious interior finishing ability and rebounding should get him a spot in the end of the rotation after the dl
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#36 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:58 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it
I'd be very interested in what it is you believe, specifically, that Sekou has shown in the NBA.

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nothing much yet other than defensive awareness and the ability to finish at the rim and stretch the floor lol
thats more than I can say for little darius
( now watch dg go for 25 in the last 8 minutes lol)
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#37 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:04 am

between Lecque and Stanley the Pacers end of the bench have some serious athleticism
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#38 » by JonFromVA » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:13 am

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:DG def looked healthy compared to last season which is something positive but also what I hoped to see as the season went on in 19-20 but it didnt happen.
I will give him some time as a curtesy and you can see his ball handling expertise and potential as a playmaker on display BUT he didnt get much accomplished at all as a floor general even against Indy scrubs and though he tried to was a non factor defensively as expected so I am not all that sure he is going to do enough to justify a starting gig this season time will tell.
I still dont buy he was worth the 5th pick when so many others taken after him who also had meh rookie seasons granted most not given the same opps came out balling in their preseason games. Look at Sekou who I wanted at 5th overall...lol way higher ceiling than Darius and already showing it


I'm sure Darius appreciates your courtesy. 8-)

But, his night was done in the 3rd quarter of the game before the teams went to their deep benches.

Personally, I'd like to see Darius evolve as a floor general - someone who can take players aside and adjust the offense when they're getting stagnant; but that may take a while. The starters struggled to create movement, and maybe Sexton would have helped with his drives, or maybe Okoro and Cedi just needed to be doing more cutting and screening. Whatever ... our floor spacing stunk, and we weren't creating lanes and open shots allowing Indiana to pack the paint.

Or ... it just might had been the first game of the preseason ...

oh its early but Im not as hopeful as you are at all
Because its the preseason I expected more from DG not less


At his age, he's just going to play better vs some teams than others. Of course if he can lock in his 3pt shot in games, that alone will change things tremendously for him ... but even good shooters are streaky.

In other words ... bring on the Knicks.
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#39 » by Stillwater » Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:51 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
I'm sure Darius appreciates your courtesy. 8-)

But, his night was done in the 3rd quarter of the game before the teams went to their deep benches.

Personally, I'd like to see Darius evolve as a floor general - someone who can take players aside and adjust the offense when they're getting stagnant; but that may take a while. The starters struggled to create movement, and maybe Sexton would have helped with his drives, or maybe Okoro and Cedi just needed to be doing more cutting and screening. Whatever ... our floor spacing stunk, and we weren't creating lanes and open shots allowing Indiana to pack the paint.

Or ... it just might had been the first game of the preseason ...

oh its early but Im not as hopeful as you are at all
Because its the preseason I expected more from DG not less


At his age, he's just going to play better vs some teams than others. Of course if he can lock in his 3pt shot in games, that alone will change things tremendously for him ... but even good shooters are streaky.

In other words ... bring on the Knicks.

you should be the gm of a tanking team lol with that kind of easy going attitude anyway.
I have no clue what to make of DG at this point in time but unless the man starts dropping dimes like Ja Morant or hitting step back bombs above 40% it is not a great resume if his turnover bug continues.
I guess what I am projecting is despite finally showing some of what made him an interesting recruit before college with his history of winning awards etc now showing the advantage with his ball handling and separation ability hell even his floater looks like $...I still dont see where in the hell this dynamic floor general is at that so many fans say they think he is.
I think he a higher % chance of being a score first rotation guard as he does running the offense of a good team.
I think DG is going to earn some time to prove himself off the bench and at this point any starting gig if he gets it is the org gifting it again.
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Re: preseason opportunities 

Post#40 » by JonFromVA » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:39 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:oh its early but Im not as hopeful as you are at all
Because its the preseason I expected more from DG not less


At his age, he's just going to play better vs some teams than others. Of course if he can lock in his 3pt shot in games, that alone will change things tremendously for him ... but even good shooters are streaky.

In other words ... bring on the Knicks.

you should be the gm of a tanking team lol with that kind of easy going attitude anyway.
I have no clue what to make of DG at this point in time but unless the man starts dropping dimes like Ja Morant or hitting step back bombs above 40% it is not a great resume if his turnover bug continues.
I guess what I am projecting is despite finally showing some of what made him an interesting recruit before college with his history of winning awards etc now showing the advantage with his ball handling and separation ability hell even his floater looks like $...I still dont see where in the hell this dynamic floor general is at that so many fans say they think he is.
I think he a higher % chance of being a score first rotation guard as he does running the offense of a good team.
I think DG is going to earn some time to prove himself off the bench and at this point any starting gig if he gets it is the org gifting it again.


Nah, I've just been watching the league for so many years and seen things playout so many different ways, I've learned drawing snap judgements is best left to the talking heads on TV who get paid to be wrong.

There's a natural progression to player development. You can hope it progresses quickly and linearly, but even that's not a given. Sometimes it's a step by step thing, and different aspects have to snap in to place before you see the player make overall progress.

Darius is not the "dynamic floor general" we'd like see to in game 2 of the pre-season .vs. the Pacers, but as long as he's showing improvement in some areas and not stagnating, I'm good. Waiting to see if players will develop is something you have to deal with when you draft 18 and 19 year olds, or you end up like the Clippers.

In the short term, Darius needs to eliminate the stupid passes and turnovers, and I fully expect him to do it. And if he's the player I think he is, at some point we do need to see that 3-ball start to drop and especially off the dribble; but I really don't mind him being conservative until he trusts it. Forcing up miss after miss is a good way to get frustrated and benched.

In the meantime, his ability to get in the paint is still a strength and his floater looks greatly improved. He's also using the backboard very well. His defense has improved, and as I noted last year, he makes a lot of good defensive decisions even if his body/length doesn't always let him make a stop.

Hopefully we get to see where Collin is at .vs. the Knicks. I still see no reason they can't compliment each other on offense, but we need to see the ball move. Alas, sometimes that's more about the offense stagnating and sometimes it's the defense doing something that's frustrating the offense. It's because of the later that we need to take care comparing performance .vs. the Pacer's starters .vs. their bench.

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