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Trade-Jarrett Allen?

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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#21 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:01 am

LivingLegend wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
You need an upgrade at the 4 if you're going to make real noise in the post season. Nance is a great bench player but he's not enough of a scorer for your team to really be a triple threat on that end. You're going to pick up some defense and lose some offense going from Drummond to a rim runner.


Problem is how many possible upgrades are actually available at the 4. Most players have one or more issue I'm sure you'll find with them or there is absolutely 0 chance we could get them.

Possible options at PF:
Kevin Love (On the roster) - Oft-injured, mediocre-poor defense, old/doesn't fit long term, overpaid
John Collins (RFA) - About to get paid, good 3pt% but on low attempts
Lauri Markkanen (RFA) - About to get paid, and according to you bad defense, no post game, and rebounds worse than Love
LaMarcus Aldridge (FA) - old, is he even a PF anymore
Aaron Gordon (Trade) - poor offense

I mean can you think of another option? I mean I'm still thinking that if we move off of Love & Drummond without eating a lot of bad money getting a Markkanen or Collins would be great for the roster as they would provide the scoring from the 4.


I mean I was moreso referring to moving forward. We still have Love for the next year or two probably at the 4 and that position can be solved with our lottery pick next year if we want to invest deeper.

Point being though is just that the young core of this team is practically complete (with one last addition coming next draft) that you can then grow and keep surrounding by supporting veteran players

There really are not a lot of PF prospects of note in the 21 draft so I dont expect that to be the goal unless they like Roko Prkacin who doesnt seem NBA ready physically despite having a lot of skill for modern game.
They need to keep Wade on the roster and hopefully he can be that guy next season if somehow they were to get decent value for Love now that teams in the east may be willing to up their risk taking to compete with the Nets
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#22 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:17 am

Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Revenged25 wrote:
Problem is how many possible upgrades are actually available at the 4. Most players have one or more issue I'm sure you'll find with them or there is absolutely 0 chance we could get them.

Possible options at PF:
Kevin Love (On the roster) - Oft-injured, mediocre-poor defense, old/doesn't fit long term, overpaid
John Collins (RFA) - About to get paid, good 3pt% but on low attempts
Lauri Markkanen (RFA) - About to get paid, and according to you bad defense, no post game, and rebounds worse than Love
LaMarcus Aldridge (FA) - old, is he even a PF anymore
Aaron Gordon (Trade) - poor offense

I mean can you think of another option? I mean I'm still thinking that if we move off of Love & Drummond without eating a lot of bad money getting a Markkanen or Collins would be great for the roster as they would provide the scoring from the 4.


I mean I was moreso referring to moving forward. We still have Love for the next year or two probably at the 4 and that position can be solved with our lottery pick next year if we want to invest deeper.

Point being though is just that the young core of this team is practically complete (with one last addition coming next draft) that you can then grow and keep surrounding by supporting veteran players

There really are not a lot of PF prospects of note in the 21 draft so I dont expect that to be the goal unless they like Roko Prkacin who doesnt seem NBA ready physically despite having a lot of skill for modern game.
They need to keep Wade on the roster and hopefully he can be that guy next season if somehow they were to get decent value for Love now that teams in the east may be willing to up their risk taking to compete with the Nets


Whats wrong with just keeping Love/Nance?
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#23 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:22 am

LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
I mean I was moreso referring to moving forward. We still have Love for the next year or two probably at the 4 and that position can be solved with our lottery pick next year if we want to invest deeper.

Point being though is just that the young core of this team is practically complete (with one last addition coming next draft) that you can then grow and keep surrounding by supporting veteran players

There really are not a lot of PF prospects of note in the 21 draft so I dont expect that to be the goal unless they like Roko Prkacin who doesnt seem NBA ready physically despite having a lot of skill for modern game.
They need to keep Wade on the roster and hopefully he can be that guy next season if somehow they were to get decent value for Love now that teams in the east may be willing to up their risk taking to compete with the Nets


Whats wrong with just keeping Love/Nance?


I'm thinking this is going to be the best option. Combined with more scoring from the bench once everyone moves back to where they should be in the rotation until someone else pops up. I might see what the Kings want for Bagley.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#24 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:31 am

jbk1234 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Stillwater wrote:There really are not a lot of PF prospects of note in the 21 draft so I dont expect that to be the goal unless they like Roko Prkacin who doesnt seem NBA ready physically despite having a lot of skill for modern game.
They need to keep Wade on the roster and hopefully he can be that guy next season if somehow they were to get decent value for Love now that teams in the east may be willing to up their risk taking to compete with the Nets


Whats wrong with just keeping Love/Nance?


I'm thinking this is going to be the best option. Combined with more scoring from the bench once everyone moves back to where they should be in the rotation until someone else pops up. I might see what the Kings want for Bagley.

Right Love is likely only being moved under a rare situation where a team needs his skillset to match up with the best teams in the league or something and are willing to give up some good players but there is no telling what teams will offer for Love or Dre if the Cavs are for some reason interested in eating long deals for picks or a young pf etc.
I think Nance is a lock to stay though regardless despite probably having the most trade value outside of any recently drafted players.
I was suggesting Wade can be a poor mans Love maybe if he can stay healthy if they do move him
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#25 » by Papi_swav » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:29 am

You guys got a steal here. Already miss him
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#26 » by therealbig3 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:05 am

Nets fan here, you guys got a stud in Jarrett Allen, hate that we had to include him, he was my favorite Net.

Strong defensive presence, great hands and instincts for the ball on the defensive and offensive glass, and a great finisher around the rim. Main issue for him is that he can play a little soft at times, but the talent and potential is there for sure. I've felt that he's right at the cusp of being an All-Star for the last couple of years. Defensively, he's already there.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#27 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:32 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Nets fan here, you guys got a stud in Jarrett Allen, hate that we had to include him, he was my favorite Net.

Strong defensive presence, great hands and instincts for the ball on the defensive and offensive glass, and a great finisher around the rim. Main issue for him is that he can play a little soft at times, but the talent and potential is there for sure. I've felt that he's right at the cusp of being an All-Star for the last couple of years. Defensively, he's already there.


Thanks for the post, I really have loved Allen. Mainly because he plays like Wilt Chamberlain everytime the Cavs/Nets have played eachother in the past. If he can just finish down low from dump off passes and be a rim protector I will be happy.

I think the Cavs saw Drummond/Nance try and guard Sabonis last week and said that they need to do something.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#28 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:02 pm

Thoughts on Jarrett Allen, so far:

- sounds like he's putting up numbers and having an impact similar to a 26/27 year old Tyson Chandler
- has apparently grown since leaving college, was listed at 6'11" 243lb by the NBA so should be 7ft in shoes
- has a 7'6" wingspan which is also similar to Chandler
- he's actually younger by a month than Obi Toppin, so getting him is kind of like getting a 2020 #1 for a 2022 #1, except he'll be at the end of his rookie deal
- sounds like he can play just about any defensive scheme which should give JBB more options
- hasn't had much success from 3pt (or shooting in general), but no doubt the Cavs will try to develop it

Thoughts on Taureen Prince, so far:

- billed as a hustle 3&D, but was he misused as a PF?
- not a ball handler, passer, (so, not much like Cedi let alone Larry)
- not much of a rebounder, or shot blocker which also suggests he shouldn't be starting at PF
- should provide some positional flexibility
- played 4 years at Baylor, so this is his "prime"
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#29 » by LivingLegend » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Thoughts on Jarrett Allen, so far:

- sounds like he's putting up numbers and having an impact similar to a 26/27 year old Tyson Chandler
- has apparently grown since leaving college, was listed at 6'11" 243lb by the NBA so should be 7ft in shoes
- has a 7'6" wingspan which is also similar to Chandler
- he's actually younger by a month than Obi Toppin, so getting him is kind of like getting a 2020 #1 for a 2022 #1, except he'll be at the end of his rookie deal
- sounds like he can play just about any defensive scheme which should give JBB more options
- hasn't had much success from 3pt (or shooting in general), but no doubt the Cavs will try to develop it

Thoughts on Taureen Prince, so far:

- billed as a hustle 3&D, but was he misused as a PF?
- not a ball handler, passer, (so, not much like Cedi let alone Larry)
- not much of a rebounder, or shot blocker which also suggests he shouldn't be starting at PF
- should provide some positional flexibility
- played 4 years at Baylor, so this is his "prime"


I wish they wouldnt, they should just let him focus on what hes billed as. A mobile rim protector who can dunk and finish everything around the rim.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#30 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:24 pm

I love the acquisition of Allen, but having drafted Okoro, who I also like, the Cavs absolutely need a PF who can stretch the floor now. There's a non-zero chance Love is here to stay as the Cavs try to find the long term answer in the draft.

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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#31 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:41 pm

jbk1234 wrote:I love the acquisition of Allen, but having drafted Okoro, who I also like, the Cavs absolutely need a PF who can stretch the floor now. There's a non-zero chance Love is here to stay as the Cavs try to find the long term answer in the draft.


Give Isaac a few years and maybe he's our starting PF ... and I'm only half kidding considering PJ Tucker's is shorter and was the same weight as Isaac when he was a rook.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#32 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:39 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I love the acquisition of Allen, but having drafted Okoro, who I also like, the Cavs absolutely need a PF who can stretch the floor now. There's a non-zero chance Love is here to stay as the Cavs try to find the long term answer in the draft.


Give Isaac a few years and maybe he's our starting PF ... and I'm only half kidding considering PJ Tucker's is shorter and was the same weight as Isaac when he was a rook.

being a solid 1-4 defender does not put you as a good option to play a position you have no offensive skill at whatsoever.
He is a wing and that will never change. I know you wanted a elite shooter but you will have to wait for Windler to get healthy again
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#33 » by Karate Diop » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:55 pm

I'll give full analysis later but... Cavs got hell of a player in Allen.

Prince is an inconsistent role player...
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#34 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:13 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I love the acquisition of Allen, but having drafted Okoro, who I also like, the Cavs absolutely need a PF who can stretch the floor now. There's a non-zero chance Love is here to stay as the Cavs try to find the long term answer in the draft.


Give Isaac a few years and maybe he's our starting PF ... and I'm only half kidding considering PJ Tucker's is shorter and was the same weight as Isaac when he was a rook.


being a solid 1-4 defender does not put you as a good option to play a position you have no offensive skill at whatsoever.
He is a wing and that will never change. I know you wanted a elite shooter but you will have to wait for Windler to get healthy again


My point is that while we may prefer to draft a PF that can shoot, it's not an absolute need. There are other ways to fill the spot if we have to including trading the pick.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#35 » by jbk1234 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:31 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Give Isaac a few years and maybe he's our starting PF ... and I'm only half kidding considering PJ Tucker's is shorter and was the same weight as Isaac when he was a rook.


being a solid 1-4 defender does not put you as a good option to play a position you have no offensive skill at whatsoever.
He is a wing and that will never change. I know you wanted a elite shooter but you will have to wait for Windler to get healthy again


My point is that while we may prefer to draft a PF that can shoot, it's not an absolute need. There are other ways to fill the spot if we have to including trading the pick.
I mean once you start talking about Bertans or Morris at $20M, or T. Harris at $35M, then you start asking why you're trading Love at all. I mean Lauri is a softer version Love, can't rebound or defend and has no post game whatsoever.

Maybe Miles in Charlotte, maybe.

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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#36 » by Stillwater » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:35 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
being a solid 1-4 defender does not put you as a good option to play a position you have no offensive skill at whatsoever.
He is a wing and that will never change. I know you wanted a elite shooter but you will have to wait for Windler to get healthy again


My point is that while we may prefer to draft a PF that can shoot, it's not an absolute need. There are other ways to fill the spot if we have to including trading the pick.
I mean once you start talking about Bertans or Morris at $20M, or T. Harris at $35M, then you start asking why you're trading Love at all. I mean Lauri is a softer version Love, can't rebound or defend and has no post game whatsoever.

Maybe Miles in Charlotte, maybe.

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Markannen is best at the 3 and should not be considered a pf really but he can handle the position next to a true rim protector like Frohio imo.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#37 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
being a solid 1-4 defender does not put you as a good option to play a position you have no offensive skill at whatsoever.
He is a wing and that will never change. I know you wanted a elite shooter but you will have to wait for Windler to get healthy again


My point is that while we may prefer to draft a PF that can shoot, it's not an absolute need. There are other ways to fill the spot if we have to including trading the pick.
I mean once you start talking about Bertans or Morris at $20M, or T. Harris at $35M, then you start asking why you're trading Love at all. I mean Lauri is a softer version Love, can't rebound or defend and has no post game whatsoever.

Maybe Miles in Charlotte, maybe.


If Kevin could stay healthy and engaged, maybe we could build with him at PF and Allen at C but *shrugs*.

If Charlotte is interested in Andre, we'd presumably want Miles Bridges (and filler) back.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#38 » by Stillwater » Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:48 am

Interestingly enough on the PF subject the Cavs also got the draft rights to stretch PF A.Sasha Vezenkov in the deal from the Nets.
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Re: Trade-Jarrett Allen? 

Post#39 » by DeRoma » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:27 pm

JA is such a underrated player. This dude was playing in all-star level this season and still developing. This guy is the better version of Rudy Gobert. He is a true rim running modern center who has the ability to play switch defense to guards. This year, he is probably the third best defensive big in the NBA behind (AD and Gobert). Maybe better cause our defense was complete ass and he was the only holding it down. While at the same time still has the potential to develop a jumper.

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