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Love needs to suit up. These are the games where we're losing because he's in street clothes.

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This is ugly. The book is out on us and good defensive teams know our guards are hesitant to shoot from outside.

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Yeah, 81 points isn't going to do it.

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We either need Love back or to make a trade for a young stretch PF that can score. Collins probably has played himself out of trade considerations, but maybe we can find a way to trade for Lauri. yeah I know his defense and rebounding is less than ideal, but the dude can score and shoot 3s at an efficient clip on high volume which would be huge for this team.

Revenged25 wrote:We either need Love back or to make a trade for a young stretch PF that can score. Collins probably has played himself out of trade considerations, but maybe we can find a way to trade for Lauri. yeah I know his defense and rebounding is less than ideal, but the dude can score and shoot 3s at an efficient clip on high volume which would be huge for this team.

Love is supposed to be back next week. I think Cavs fans who get frustrated with Love will straight up hate Lauri after a couple of weeks, three on the outside.

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Seemed like one of those games the team was out partying all night and/or didn't get any rest before the game. So many easy shots missed ...

Or maybe the Knicks length bothered us like our front court often does to our opponents.

At least Garland found his 3pt shot before JBB had seen enough and perhaps remembered he was coming off a shoulder injury and letting him go down shooting could cost us.

JonFromVA wrote:Seemed like one of those games the team was out partying all night and/or didn't get any rest before the game. So many easy shots missed ...

Or maybe the Knicks length bothered us like our front court often does to our opponents.

At least Garland found his 3pt shot before JBB had seen enough and perhaps remembered he was coming off a shoulder injury and letting him go down shooting could cost us.

Garland also only had one assist last night. I'd have to go back and watch the tape to see if that due to misses or whether he and Sexton switch roles (Sexton actually had 5 dimes). The shooting number were just brutal: Drummond 2/7, Nance 1/9, Osman 1/7, Prince 1/7, Okoro 1/4. Sexton was 6/18 and that looked efficient compared to those guys.

Only Garland, Allen, and Windler had respectable shooting nights.

Cavs looked really really soft last night. They needed Delly and his scrapping and tbh should be getting some kind of junkyard dog big to fill that out open roster spot. Somebody needed to hip check mitchy mitchy for his blatant abuse of the guards . Ny pays refs off too but nobody will acknowledge that I'm sure. I liked this teams fight more when Dotson and Stevens were in tge rotation. Oh well thars what i get fir trying to be an optimist. Id be surprised if win more than 2 games in the next 7 without some rotation shake ups. I still have hope for him because his feel for the game and his personality is easy to like but dg is not ready for a heavy usage role when the refs are rewarding physical defenders and not giving small guards the ticky tacks like normal.
Sexton is trying toi hard to be the passer instead of hunting for buckets and finding a rhythm which he doesn't do well when hunting for dimes. But he could have had 14 dimes last night if anyone was shooting it so i think he is providing plenty of evidence of his growth. They'll probably fn trade him with my luck . Smh

jbk1234 wrote:

Revenged25 wrote:We either need Love back or to make a trade for a young stretch PF that can score. Collins probably has played himself out of trade considerations, but maybe we can find a way to trade for Lauri. yeah I know his defense and rebounding is less than ideal, but the dude can score and shoot 3s at an efficient clip on high volume which would be huge for this team.

Love is supposed to be back next week. I think Cavs fans who get frustrated with Love will straight up hate Lauri after a couple of weeks, three on the outside.

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Well I'm not one of those that get frustrated by Love and I think Lauri being younger and more athletic at this point might be able to fit into the current defensive scheme. Still won't be great but at least they'd have someone that was a legit threat from outside that would shoot it in volume.

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:Seemed like one of those games the team was out partying all night and/or didn't get any rest before the game. So many easy shots missed ...

Or maybe the Knicks length bothered us like our front court often does to our opponents.

At least Garland found his 3pt shot before JBB had seen enough and perhaps remembered he was coming off a shoulder injury and letting him go down shooting could cost us.

Garland also only had one assist last night. I'd have to go back and watch the tape to see if that due to misses or whether he and Sexton switch roles (Sexton actually had 5 dimes). The shooting number were just brutal: Drummond 2/7, Nance 1/9, Osman 1/7, Prince 1/7, Okoro 1/4. Sexton was 6/18 and that looked efficient compared to those guys.

Only Garland, Allen, and Windler had respectable shooting nights.

I don't usually like excusing passing on shooting, but the Cavs were missing layups and bunnies left and right ... that can't really be explained by anything other than external factors or ("just one of those nights").

But it's fair to say the Cavs can be frustrated by opponents who play hard, play defense, have length, etc. The long-term question is can they overcome this through coaching and experience, or is it the roster ... or as I believe an issue of floor spacing.

If it's primarily floor spacing, then Kevin Love's return should help, but anybody's guess how long we may have to wait for Isaac to become a respectable 3pt shooter. It would also help if our guards and bigs manipulated screens better.

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves. We're a team that can float around .500, and that's fine, but we have a lot of stuff to improve on and there's no quick fix that's going to make this team a contender.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:Seemed like one of those games the team was out partying all night and/or didn't get any rest before the game. So many easy shots missed ...

Or maybe the Knicks length bothered us like our front court often does to our opponents.

At least Garland found his 3pt shot before JBB had seen enough and perhaps remembered he was coming off a shoulder injury and letting him go down shooting could cost us.

Garland also only had one assist last night. I'd have to go back and watch the tape to see if that due to misses or whether he and Sexton switch roles (Sexton actually had 5 dimes). The shooting number were just brutal: Drummond 2/7, Nance 1/9, Osman 1/7, Prince 1/7, Okoro 1/4. Sexton was 6/18 and that looked efficient compared to those guys.

Only Garland, Allen, and Windler had respectable shooting nights.

I don't usually like excusing passing on shooting, but the Cavs were missing layups and bunnies left and right ... that can't really be explained by anything other than external factors or ("just one of those nights").

But it's fair to say the Cavs can be frustrated by opponents who play hard, play defense, have length, etc. The long-term question is can they overcome this through coaching and experience, or is it the roster ... or as I believe an issue of floor spacing.

If it's primarily floor spacing, then Kevin Love's return should help, but anybody's guess how long we may have to wait for Isaac to become a respectable 3pt shooter. It would also help if our guards and bigs manipulated screens better.

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves. We're a team that can float around .500, and that's fine, but we have a lot of stuff to improve on and there's no quick fix that's going to make this team a contender.

This is basically where I'm at. If you're building through the draft, you have to be willing to be patient. One, maybe two franchise players come out per year. But that doesn't mean you can't find good, even if somewhat flawed, players. If a player is neither good nor improving by his third year, odds are you missed.

But you have to make sure you're not selling low on a guy like Dipo or even T. Harris. The Magic have wallowed in mediocrity for a decade operating that way. Even guys like Butler and Brown took until their third year.

I look around the league and outside of Atlanta and Memphis, there aren't a lot of teams I'd switch prospects with.

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jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:
Garland also only had one assist last night. I'd have to go back and watch the tape to see if that due to misses or whether he and Sexton switch roles (Sexton actually had 5 dimes). The shooting number were just brutal: Drummond 2/7, Nance 1/9, Osman 1/7, Prince 1/7, Okoro 1/4. Sexton was 6/18 and that looked efficient compared to those guys.

Only Garland, Allen, and Windler had respectable shooting nights.

I don't usually like excusing passing on shooting, but the Cavs were missing layups and bunnies left and right ... that can't really be explained by anything other than external factors or ("just one of those nights").

But it's fair to say the Cavs can be frustrated by opponents who play hard, play defense, have length, etc. The long-term question is can they overcome this through coaching and experience, or is it the roster ... or as I believe an issue of floor spacing.

If it's primarily floor spacing, then Kevin Love's return should help, but anybody's guess how long we may have to wait for Isaac to become a respectable 3pt shooter. It would also help if our guards and bigs manipulated screens better.

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves. We're a team that can float around .500, and that's fine, but we have a lot of stuff to improve on and there's no quick fix that's going to make this team a contender.

This is basically where I'm at. If you're building through the draft, you have to be willing to be patient. One, maybe two franchise players come out per year. But that doesn't mean you can't find good, even if somewhat flawed, players. If a player is neither good nor improving by his third year, odds are you missed.

But you have to make sure you're not selling low on a guy like Dipo or even T. Harris. The Magic have wallowed in mediocrity for a decade operating that way. Even guys like Butler and Brown took until their third year.

I look around the league and outside of Atlanta and Memphis, there aren't a lot of teams I'd switch prospects with.

It's pretty typical to be faced with having to decide whether to dish out a max to a young player well before he's earned it. That's one reason rebuilding through the lottery with one and done's is very hit or miss. There's a lot more Andre Drummond's than Anthony Davis's.

In fact, the fun starts for us this Summer when Collin Sexton goes from a fun to follow young player making $5M/yr to potentially a max player earning $170M+ over 5 years - and we've already lost one of the young players from our core (KPJ) while adding another via trade (Allen).

Our young players have a lot to prove, and experiencing some winning is a nice step; but the reality of the NBA is we couldn't trade our entire team for a young player already considered to be franchise player caliber like Luka or Zion - probably even Trae.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
I don't usually like excusing passing on shooting, but the Cavs were missing layups and bunnies left and right ... that can't really be explained by anything other than external factors or ("just one of those nights").

But it's fair to say the Cavs can be frustrated by opponents who play hard, play defense, have length, etc. The long-term question is can they overcome this through coaching and experience, or is it the roster ... or as I believe an issue of floor spacing.

If it's primarily floor spacing, then Kevin Love's return should help, but anybody's guess how long we may have to wait for Isaac to become a respectable 3pt shooter. It would also help if our guards and bigs manipulated screens better.

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves. We're a team that can float around .500, and that's fine, but we have a lot of stuff to improve on and there's no quick fix that's going to make this team a contender.

This is basically where I'm at. If you're building through the draft, you have to be willing to be patient. One, maybe two franchise players come out per year. But that doesn't mean you can't find good, even if somewhat flawed, players. If a player is neither good nor improving by his third year, odds are you missed.

But you have to make sure you're not selling low on a guy like Dipo or even T. Harris. The Magic have wallowed in mediocrity for a decade operating that way. Even guys like Butler and Brown took until their third year.

I look around the league and outside of Atlanta and Memphis, there aren't a lot of teams I'd switch prospects with.

It's pretty typical to be faced with having to decide whether to dish out a max to a young player well before he's earned it. That's one reason rebuilding through the lottery with one and done's is very hit or miss. There's a lot more Andre Drummond's than Anthony Davis's.

In fact, the fun starts for us this Summer when Collin Sexton goes from a fun to follow young player making $5M/yr to potentially a max player earning $170M+ over 5 years - and we've already lost one of the young players from our core (KPJ) while adding another via trade (Allen).

Our young players have a lot to prove, and experiencing some winning is a nice step; but the reality of the NBA is we couldn't trade our entire team for a young player already considered to be franchise player caliber like Luka or Zion - probably even Trae.

I'm very much against early extensions for young players unless you're certain that player would get a max contract even after getting injured, or that player is willing to offer a real discount in exchange for security. The one advantage rebuilding teams have is not having to make that financial commitment until they absolutely have to make that financial commitment.

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jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:This is basically where I'm at. If you're building through the draft, you have to be willing to be patient. One, maybe two franchise players come out per year. But that doesn't mean you can't find good, even if somewhat flawed, players. If a player is neither good nor improving by his third year, odds are you missed.

But you have to make sure you're not selling low on a guy like Dipo or even T. Harris. The Magic have wallowed in mediocrity for a decade operating that way. Even guys like Butler and Brown took until their third year.

I look around the league and outside of Atlanta and Memphis, there aren't a lot of teams I'd switch prospects with.

It's pretty typical to be faced with having to decide whether to dish out a max to a young player well before he's earned it. That's one reason rebuilding through the lottery with one and done's is very hit or miss. There's a lot more Andre Drummond's than Anthony Davis's.

In fact, the fun starts for us this Summer when Collin Sexton goes from a fun to follow young player making $5M/yr to potentially a max player earning $170M+ over 5 years - and we've already lost one of the young players from our core (KPJ) while adding another via trade (Allen).

Our young players have a lot to prove, and experiencing some winning is a nice step; but the reality of the NBA is we couldn't trade our entire team for a young player already considered to be franchise player caliber like Luka or Zion - probably even Trae.

I'm very much against early extensions for young players unless you're certain that player would get a max contract even after getting injured, or that player is willing to offer a real discount in exchange for security. The one advantage rebuilding teams have is not having to make that financial commitment until they absolutely have to make that financial commitment.

If everyone's reasonable? That's great. Cedi and Larry signed on for reasonable deals with no fuss and no muss. But once a player and his agent get it in their heads that they deserve the max, and you don't pay it, generally bad things happen. Kevin Love in Minnesota is the first name that comes to mind, but now we have the Rich Paul spin on that where he's sat out his players and even taken the one year QO.

I mean Jaylen Brown got a 4/$107M from Boston after averaging 13/4/1, and Jamal Murray got himself a max deal averaging numbers likely to be less possibly much less than Collin ... it's not going to surprise me if Collin's agent is asking for the max.

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
It's pretty typical to be faced with having to decide whether to dish out a max to a young player well before he's earned it. That's one reason rebuilding through the lottery with one and done's is very hit or miss. There's a lot more Andre Drummond's than Anthony Davis's.

In fact, the fun starts for us this Summer when Collin Sexton goes from a fun to follow young player making $5M/yr to potentially a max player earning $170M+ over 5 years - and we've already lost one of the young players from our core (KPJ) while adding another via trade (Allen).

Our young players have a lot to prove, and experiencing some winning is a nice step; but the reality of the NBA is we couldn't trade our entire team for a young player already considered to be franchise player caliber like Luka or Zion - probably even Trae.

I'm very much against early extensions for young players unless you're certain that player would get a max contract even after getting injured, or that player is willing to offer a real discount in exchange for security. The one advantage rebuilding teams have is not having to make that financial commitment until they absolutely have to make that financial commitment.

If everyone's reasonable? That's great. Cedi and Larry signed on for reasonable deals with no fuss and no muss. But once a player and his agent get it in their heads that they deserve the max, and you don't pay it, generally bad things happen. Kevin Love in Minnesota is the first name that comes to mind, but now we have the Rich Paul spin on that where he's sat out his players and even taken the one year QO.

I mean Jaylen Brown got a 4/$107M from Boston after averaging 13/4/1, and Jamal Murray got himself a max deal averaging numbers likely to be less possibly much less than Collin ... it's not going to surprise me if Collin's agent is asking for the max.

The Cavs went through this with Kyrie. Everyone freaked out because he wouldn't sign an extension. They put a five-year max in front of him on day one as a RFA and he signed it.

The truth is that the worst that they can do as a RFA is sign a contract for three years for smaller raises and less guaranteed money. Klutch learned the hard way with Noel how easy is it is to screw up RFA for a client.

If a player or agent is going to cause a problem for the team because they're not getting an extension that the team isn't comfortable giving that player, that's a really good sign you should consider trading that player and make him someone else's problem.

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JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:
It's pretty typical to be faced with having to decide whether to dish out a max to a young player well before he's earned it. That's one reason rebuilding through the lottery with one and done's is very hit or miss. There's a lot more Andre Drummond's than Anthony Davis's.

In fact, the fun starts for us this Summer when Collin Sexton goes from a fun to follow young player making $5M/yr to potentially a max player earning $170M+ over 5 years - and we've already lost one of the young players from our core (KPJ) while adding another via trade (Allen).

Our young players have a lot to prove, and experiencing some winning is a nice step; but the reality of the NBA is we couldn't trade our entire team for a young player already considered to be franchise player caliber like Luka or Zion - probably even Trae.

I'm very much against early extensions for young players unless you're certain that player would get a max contract even after getting injured, or that player is willing to offer a real discount in exchange for security. The one advantage rebuilding teams have is not having to make that financial commitment until they absolutely have to make that financial commitment.

If everyone's reasonable? That's great. Cedi and Larry signed on for reasonable deals with no fuss and no muss. But once a player and his agent get it in their heads that they deserve the max, and you don't pay it, generally bad things happen. Kevin Love in Minnesota is the first name that comes to mind, but now we have the Rich Paul spin on that where he's sat out his players and even taken the one year QO.

I mean Jaylen Brown got a 4/$107M from Boston after averaging 13/4/1, and Jamal Murray got himself a max deal averaging numbers likely to be less possibly much less than Collin ... it's not going to surprise me if Collin's agent is asking for the max.

DG's agent

jbk1234 wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

jbk1234 wrote:I'm very much against early extensions for young players unless you're certain that player would get a max contract even after getting injured, or that player is willing to offer a real discount in exchange for security. The one advantage rebuilding teams have is not having to make that financial commitment until they absolutely have to make that financial commitment.

If everyone's reasonable? That's great. Cedi and Larry signed on for reasonable deals with no fuss and no muss. But once a player and his agent get it in their heads that they deserve the max, and you don't pay it, generally bad things happen. Kevin Love in Minnesota is the first name that comes to mind, but now we have the Rich Paul spin on that where he's sat out his players and even taken the one year QO.

I mean Jaylen Brown got a 4/$107M from Boston after averaging 13/4/1, and Jamal Murray got himself a max deal averaging numbers likely to be less possibly much less than Collin ... it's not going to surprise me if Collin's agent is asking for the max.

The Cavs went through this with Kyrie. Everyone freaked out because he wouldn't sign an extension. They put a five-year max in front of him on day one as a RFA and he signed it.

The truth is that the worst that they can do as a RFA is sign a contract for three years for smaller raises and less guaranteed money. Klutch learned the hard way with Noel how easy is it is to screw up RFA for a client.

If a player or agent is going to cause a problem for the team because they're not getting an extension that the team isn't comfortable giving that player, that's a really good sign you should consider trading that player and make him someone else's problem.

Fact is we couldn't come to an agreement with Kyrie on a rookie extension, but once he became a RFA, the Cavs had a plan for Kyrie, promoting Griffin, hiring Blatt, sold him on that he'd be their franchise player ... and paid him like it.

And then LeBron, happened .... lol

Noel certainly made a mistake listening to Rich, but as far as Paul is concerned? Not so sure, he's upset with the outcome as it demonstrated his willingness to walk away from a deal he didn't find acceptable.

Anyway if we're dishing out max offers like candy we shouldn't have a hard time extending our young players. Trading a player early is an option if he won't agree to a reasonable extension (the Kyrie saga would have ended early if we'd done that), but that can go very badly as well.

Harden was still a bit of an unknown when he became eligible for a rookie extension, and the Thunder traded him because he wanted just a little more than they budgeted to offer him.

It all comes back to talent evaluation, projection, having a solid vision for where the team needs to go and how to get it there. At some point Altman is going to have to push his chips to the middle.